Author Topic: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII  (Read 3400 times)

antihellenistic

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #90 on: November 28, 2023, 08:37:45 pm »
World War I's Belligerents Racial View

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Germany was hardly the only nation to express the struggle for national defense and freedom in racialized terms during World War I. Allied, especially British, propaganda frequently demonized the enemy as the Hun, portrayed as a bloodthirsty inhuman beast. The British seized in particular upon the German invasion of Belgium at the start of the war as an example of bestial cruelty, not stopping at images of Belgian babies being spitted on German spike helmets.32 One of the most striking racialized images of the enemy was published by the United States  Army in 1918. Entitled “Destroy This Mad Brute!,” it featured a growling gorilla wearing a German spiked helmet. In one hand he held a club labeled “Kultur,” in the other arm he grasped a prostrate white woman.33 Clearly grounded in American fears of miscegenation and ****, the poster portrayed the Germans as a racial enemy. During the war, therefore, both sides deployed racialized images of each other, illustrating the absolutist character of the conflict. In a climate of total war, the enemy had to be dehumanized and treated as the racial Other.34

The racialization of enemy European nations as savages occurred concurrently with the mobilization of nonwhite populations for the war effort and their introduction onto European soil. World War I was an imperial war, during which the leading nations mobilized their colonial resources in service to the national effort. As the masters of the largest empires, the British and French took the lead in imperial mobilization.  One of the most important of these resources was labor: ever since the era of African slavery colonial workers had been a key source of wealth for European empires, but the labor shortages caused by the mobilization of millions of European men into the military made this a critical need.

Source :

White Freedom The Racial History of an Idea Tyler Edward Stovall 2021 Princeton University Press page 209

antihellenistic

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2023, 02:46:00 am »
How the Western Allied Power treated the Colored People during World War 2

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This pattern of people fighting for national freedom denied to them as racial outsiders characterized much of the experience of Allied colonial subjects in general during the war. In spite of widespread opposition from Indian politicians, the British government of colonial India declared that questions of self-rule and independence would have to  wait until after the war was over. The British also used the war to reassert imperial authority in the Middle East, overthrowing the government of  Iraq in 1941 and the Egyptian regime in 1942.160 The clear message was that, at least until the defeat of the Axis, colonialism would remain firmly in place. The fact that imperial and Commonwealth soldiers fought for Britain also did not shield them from British racism. Black soldiers in particular received lower pay, worse rations, and far fewer chances for advancement than their white counterparts. The British military generally refused (as in World War I), to deploy them in Europe; they also tried to prevent contacts between them and African American soldiers for fear that the antiracist attitudes of the latter would undermine the empire.161

The French situation was different, since colonial troops did not enter France until the Liberation. Yet the Gaullist argument that Free France represented France as a whole tended to mask the diversity of both the Free French and the Resistance. In arranging for French troops to liberate Paris in 1944, for example, De Gaulle bowed to American demands for the exclusion of Black colonial soldiers, so that the LeClerc  Division, which entered the French capital on August 25, 1944, consisted largely of Spanish Republican exiles. The liberation of Paris must be a white liberation.162

The United States during the war also mobilized people of color to an unprecedented degree while at the same time stubbornly retaining traditional racial standards. World War II represented the greatest overseas war effort the nation had ever seen, the first time America (or any nation) had waged such a massive struggle on two oceans at the same time. Over 16 million Americans served in the armed forces during  World War II, more than any other war effort before or since. Moreover, the tremendous mobilization of production that made the United States the “Arsenal of Democracy” required vast labor resources, prompting the migration of millions to new jobs and transforming the nation’s industrial landscape.163 This massive military and economic mobilization took place in a new political context, for America had changed significantly since World War I. The New Deal represented one of the most  progressive regimes, and political cultures, in US history, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s attitudes toward race were far removed from those  of Woodrow Wilson.164

...

In general, however, racial discrimination and segregation persisted in America during World War II. Whatever his personal feelings, Roosevelt’s New Deal coalition depended upon the support of white southern legislators, who remained adamantly opposed to policies promoting racial equality. Roosevelt may have denounced lynching, but the US  government never enacted federal anti-lynching legislation. During the  1930s many New Deal social programs, such as the Federal Housing  Authority, discriminated against Blacks, and this pattern continued during the war.175 Most notably, in spite of some Democratic promises to the contrary, America’s armed forces remained segregated for the duration of the conflict. As in World War I but to an even greater extent, the  US military fought around the world for white freedom.176

Racism in World War II was not just a matter of government policy.  During the war race riots erupted in American cities, usually involving white attacks on Blacks and other peoples of color. In June 1943 the so-called Zoot Suit Riots (named after a clothing style made popular by  Black jazz musicians and embraced by minority youth) broke out in Los  Angeles, involving attacks by thousands of white soldiers and sailors primarily against Latino young men.177 A scant two weeks later Detroit experienced its own major race riot, prompted by attempts to integrate the city’s housing and defense industries.178 Public transportation and
other facilities remained largely segregated, and not just in the South.  At times this went so far as to require Black soldiers in uniform to give up seats on trains to German prisoners of war.

Source :

White Freedom The Racial History of an Idea Tyler Edward Stovall 2021 Princeton University Press page 250 - 253

antihellenistic

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Hitler and Stalin view each other

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Hitler appreciated Stalin . They respected each other as enemies and they did not underestimate each other. Stalin showed less respect openly … Hitler somehow appreciated Stalin in his private talks… (not in public understandibly) .

He used to say he should have acted like Stalin to deal with army commanders. He thought himself as civilized and soft comparing to Stalin. He even mentioned Stalin was the best candidate to run Slavic rabbit family for Germans once Germany conquered Russia. Both leaders were similar types and made of same substance. They both despised each other and at the same time secretly appreciated each other. It sounds like contrast but probably that how it was.

Hitler was amazed what Stalin achieved with Slavic rabbit family in sense of development. He was very surprised to see the real size of Soviet army, the industrial capacity of Soviets under Stalin regime. He even analyzed Stalin’s ear lobes to be certain that he was not a jew.

Actually both men had parallel lives.( Bullock) Their life stories are amazingly similar. Probably they knew this fact and appreciated each other. Although Stalin appreciated Hitler, probably he would turn him into mummified statue and exhibit him in Red Square if he had the chance as Hitler told people close to him. … Politics and respect for the enemy are two different concepts…

https://qr.ae/pKa8eK

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #93 on: December 19, 2023, 09:00:41 pm »
From your link:

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Even in war time and under the influence of propaganda , 19 July 1941 Hitler stated:

“Stalin is one of the most extraordinary figures in world history. He began as a small clerk, and he has never stopped being a clerk. Stalin owes nothing to rhetoric. He governs from his office, thanks to a bureaucracy that obeys his every nod and gesture.

This is a criticism, not a compliment!

https://www.quora.com/What-did-Hitler-and-Stalin-think-of-each-other

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Hitler once summed up Stalin brilliantly: “Stalin started out as a desk clerk and he is still a desk clerk.” What he meant, of course, is that Stalin thought and acted like a mediocre bureaucrat, not a statesman and visionary like himself.

More Hitler quotes that shows Hitler's dislike for Stalin (rooted in anti-Turanism, not merely anti-communism):

"When Russia barricades herself within her frontiers, it's to prevent people from leaving the country and making certain comparisons. That's why Stalin was obliged to introduce Bolshevism into the Baltic countries, so that his army of occupation should be deprived of all means of comparison with another system."

"A people can prove to be well fitted for battle even although it is ill fitted for civilisation. From the point of view of their value as combatants, the armies of Genghiz Khan were not inferior to those of Stalin (provided we take away from Bolshevism what it owes to the material civilisation of the West)."

"Stalin pretends to have been the herald of the Bolshevik revolution. In actual fact, he identifies himself with the Russia of the Tsars, and he has merely resurrected the tradition of Pan-Slavism. For him Bolshevism is only a means, a disguise designed to trick the Germanic and Latin peoples. If we hadn't seized power in 1933, the wave of the Huns would have broken over our heads."

"Stalin is half beast, half giant. To the social side of life he is utterly indifferent. The people can rot, for all he cares."

"Stalin is an anarchist educated in an ecclesiastical college! Our newspapers ought to ask whether he and Churchill sang psalms together in Moscow!"


It is only correct to say that Hitler dared not underestimate Stalin:

"Stalin, too, must command our unconditional respect. In his own way he is a hell of a fellow ! He knows his models, Genghiz Khan and the others, very well, and the scope of his industrial planning is exceeded only by our own Four Year Plan."

When Hitler uses the term 'respect', it is in the sense of viewing Stalin as a serious threat not to be taken lightly, not in the sense of viewing him as a rolemodel.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2023, 09:18:11 pm by 90sRetroFan »

rp

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #94 on: December 21, 2023, 08:01:06 am »

rp

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #95 on: December 23, 2023, 07:31:47 pm »
From your link:

Quote
Even in war time and under the influence of propaganda , 19 July 1941 Hitler stated:

“Stalin is one of the most extraordinary figures in world history. He began as a small clerk, and he has never stopped being a clerk. Stalin owes nothing to rhetoric. He governs from his office, thanks to a bureaucracy that obeys his every nod and gesture.

This is a criticism, not a compliment!

https://www.quora.com/What-did-Hitler-and-Stalin-think-of-each-other

Quote
Hitler once summed up Stalin brilliantly: “Stalin started out as a desk clerk and he is still a desk clerk.” What he meant, of course, is that Stalin thought and acted like a mediocre bureaucrat, not a statesman and visionary like himself.

More Hitler quotes that shows Hitler's dislike for Stalin (rooted in anti-Turanism, not merely anti-communism):

"When Russia barricades herself within her frontiers, it's to prevent people from leaving the country and making certain comparisons. That's why Stalin was obliged to introduce Bolshevism into the Baltic countries, so that his army of occupation should be deprived of all means of comparison with another system."

"A people can prove to be well fitted for battle even although it is ill fitted for civilisation. From the point of view of their value as combatants, the armies of Genghiz Khan were not inferior to those of Stalin (provided we take away from Bolshevism what it owes to the material civilisation of the West)."

"Stalin pretends to have been the herald of the Bolshevik revolution. In actual fact, he identifies himself with the Russia of the Tsars, and he has merely resurrected the tradition of Pan-Slavism. For him Bolshevism is only a means, a disguise designed to trick the Germanic and Latin peoples. If we hadn't seized power in 1933, the wave of the Huns would have broken over our heads."

"Stalin is half beast, half giant. To the social side of life he is utterly indifferent. The people can rot, for all he cares."

"Stalin is an anarchist educated in an ecclesiastical college! Our newspapers ought to ask whether he and Churchill sang psalms together in Moscow!"


It is only correct to say that Hitler dared not underestimate Stalin:

"Stalin, too, must command our unconditional respect. In his own way he is a hell of a fellow! He knows his models, Genghiz Khan and the others, very well, and the scope of his industrial planning is exceeded only by our own Four Year Plan."

When Hitler uses the term 'respect', it is in the sense of viewing Stalin as a serious threat not to be taken lightly, not in the sense of viewing him as a rolemodel.

In India, we see these clerical pen pushers (mainly Brahmins) being given decision-making powers due to the colonial bureaucracy. And we can see the utter failure of governance in the Indian state. Feudal landowners + mercantilistic oligarchs + clerical bureaucrats are the ones ruling India. In contrast, the monarchy limited the power of all three.

antihellenistic

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Re: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2024, 12:25:02 am »
Militarism during 20th Century