Author Topic: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism  (Read 1109 times)

christianbethel

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Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« on: June 21, 2022, 05:14:45 pm »
I am taking it upon myself for the assistance of the Aryanist movement and for those looking for recruitment to compile a list of anti-tribalist quotes from/about Hitler and his true associates/admirers. Please contribute if possible.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 05:21:20 pm by christianbethel »
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

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christianbethel

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2022, 05:16:09 pm »
Quote
’If…we examine the advantages and disadvantages of keeping the races and tribes apart in our German fatherland, we can see nothing but disadvantages! The German Volk would only be more splintered, set against one another, atomized by stirring up the racial problems; so it would be rendered insignificant as far as foreign policy goes. That is why I have forbidden more than once—and at the next Gauleiter conference I shall unequivocally repeat my prohibition against—any talk or writing about racial theory and the racial problem. We must do precisely the opposite! The community of the Volk, the community of the Volk, the community of the Volk—that must be our battle cry! Everything that unites and allies the strata must be brought out, cultivated, and promoted, and everything that separates them, everything that serves to awaken the old prejudices must be avoided, fought against, removed. We must make good the mistakes that were made on both sides. Like Christ, we must preach, ‘You are all brothers! Love one another!’’
(Otto Wagener, Hitler: Memoirs of a Confidant, 1978/1985, p. 213)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 12:06:19 pm by christianbethel »
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

christianbethel

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2022, 05:19:42 pm »
Quote
'We must accept the mixing of blood as it is. We must not call one blood worse than another, one mixture better than another. Rather, we must employ other means to breed a higher form from this gray mass. We must try to bring to the surface the valuable traits of the people living in Germany, to cultivate and to develop them, and we must find ways and means to prevent the propagation of all the bad, inferior, criminal, and decadent tendencies and all the congenital diseases so damaging to the Volk.'
(Otto Wagener, Hitler: Memoirs of a Confidant, 1978/1985, p. 214)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 12:04:33 pm by christianbethel »
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

christianbethel

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2022, 05:24:31 pm »
Quote
'The Romans gathered the best students from their whole empire in boarding institutions. There they were taught and trained by the best teachers. This effort did not take the fathers’ profession into consideration. Only foreign races—Negroes and Jews—were excluded. In all other areas, Jews enjoyed Roman liberties; Negroes, on the other hand, were granted them only in exceptional cases, when they had made themselves deserving through especially outstanding achievements for the Empire. Jews could even become ‘Roman Citizens,’ as we see in the case of Saint Paul. But the school for pages—that is, the training school for the young men intended to enter public service—was not open to them. I have a similar institution in mind for Germany.'
(Otto Wagener, Hitler: Memoirs of a Confidant, 1978/1985, p. 289)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 12:05:34 pm by christianbethel »
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

christianbethel

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2022, 05:26:23 pm »
Quote
'The third point is that a person must be racially flawless. Let him be Germanic, or Roman, or Chinese, or a Jew, or an Indian, or a Negro, and so on. I respect all equally. We can work with and count on all of them. Each has his established traits. Depending on what one is looking for, this one or that one is to be preferred for the job in question. It is no different with people than with horses or dogs. Once one has established the proper race for a particular task, one can rest assured that the task will be resolved.'
(Otto Wagener, Hitler: Memoirs of a Confidant, 1978/1985, p. 143)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 12:07:09 pm by christianbethel »
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

christianbethel

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2022, 05:29:39 pm »
Quote
'Since Hitler paused briefly, Schemm noted: 'I’m very glad, Herr Hitler, to hear you say this. There’s such a lot of nonsense talked about blond men, about the Nordic race, about the cult of Wotan and the spirit of the Edda, as if no one else on the globe had any right to exist, or at best to exist only in a second-class position, as subhuman creatures. These idiotic windbags have no idea what harm their spouting causes. For all they do is arouse inferiority complexes and hatred in those who don’t happen to be lucky enough to be blond, and so they divide the German Volk into two racial halves: the Germanic and the non-Germanic people.'
'I’ve expressly and repeatedly forbidden this sort of thing!' Hitler interrupted, flaring up. 'All that rubbish about the Thing places, the solstice festivals, the Midgard snake, and all the rest of the rubbish they dredge up from German prehistory! Then they read Nietzsche with fifteen-year-old boys and, using incomprehensible quotations, paint a picture of the superman, exhorting the boys: ‘That is you—or that is what you are to become.’'
(Otto Wagener, Hitler: Memoirs of a Confidant, 1978/1985, p. 277)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 12:08:05 pm by christianbethel »
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

christianbethel

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2022, 05:31:36 pm »
On homosexuality:
Quote
''What people do in their beds’, Hitler used to say, ‘does not interest me so long as relationships do not prejudice the State and its leadership.’'
(Heinz Linge, With Hitler to the End)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 12:08:50 pm by christianbethel »
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

Panzerfaust

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2022, 10:29:25 pm »
Who is "Wagener" and why is it when I enter "Wagener, 1978/1985, p. 143" into the google search engine I get links to the JSTOR website?

What the Romans thought of race was already covered here: https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/what-did-the-romans-think-about-race/

How is this quote anti-tribalism: ''What people do in their beds’, Hitler used to say, ‘does not interest me so long as relationships do not prejudice the State and its leadership.’'?

The quote "You are all brothers! Love one another!’’ sounds Jewish:
Quote
The slaughter of the firstborn reveals that clearly enough. Just as they have done with us, the Jews had won the great lower stratum of the population for themselves -- 'Liberty, Equality, Fraternity!' -- until
one night they sent out the order, 'Down with the bourgeois! Kill them, the dogs!' but things didn't turn out so well as they had expected.
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/Bolshevism_From_Moses_to_Lenin.pdf

Quote
Liberté, égalité, fraternité (French pronunciation: [libɛʁˈte eɡaliˈte fʁatɛʁniˈte]), French for "liberty, equality, fraternity",[1] is the national motto of France and the Republic of Haiti, and is an example of a tripartite motto. Although it finds its origins in the French Revolution, it was then only one motto among others and was not institutionalized until the Third Republic at the end of the 19th century.[2] Debates concerning the compatibility and order of the three terms began at the same time as the Revolution. It is also the motto of the Grand Orient and the Grande Loge de France.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libert%C3%A9,_%C3%A9galit%C3%A9,_fraternit%C3%A9

See also: https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/secret-societies-and-occult-forces/

christianbethel

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2022, 03:11:27 pm »
'Who is "Wagener" and why is it when I enter "Wagener, 1978/1985, p. 143" into the google search engine I get links to the JSTOR website?'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Wagener
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler:_Memoirs_of_a_Confidant

'What the Romans thought of race was already covered here: https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/what-did-the-romans-think-about-race/'
Nothing is covered on that thread. It's just a collection of links to YouTube videos with no discussion whatsoever.

'How is this quote anti-tribalism: ''What people do in their beds’, Hitler used to say, ‘does not interest me so long as relationships do not prejudice the State and its leadership.’'?'
Homophobia is a form of tribalism.

'The quote "You are all brothers! Love one another!’’ sounds Jewish:'
It's not. It's Christian -  though I don't think it verbatim appears in any of the four Gospels.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 03:13:52 pm by christianbethel »
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

Panzerfaust

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2022, 05:13:34 pm »
"Nothing is covered on that thread. It's just a collection of links to YouTube videos with no discussion whatsoever."

Nothing is covered about how Romans saw race in this video?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVWi3_FMjno

Quote
In classical antiquity Greek and Roman writers were acquainted with people of every skin tone from very pale (associated with populations from Scythia) to very dark (associated with populations from sub-Saharan Africa (Aethiopia). People described with words meaning "black", or as Aethiopes, are occasionally mentioned throughout the Empire in surviving writings, and people with very dark skin tones and woolly hair are depicted in various artistic modes. Other words for people with other skin tones were also used.

Skin tones did not carry any social implications and no social identity, either imposed or assumed, was associated with skin color. Though the color black was associated with ill-omen in the ancient Roman religion, "the ancients did not fall into the error of biological racism;... ancient society... for all its faults and failures never made color the basis for judging a man."[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_in_ancient_Roman_history

Quote
Black Romans were central to Classical culture and not as an exceptional few or as slaves or servants. They were soldiers and traders, dramatists, poets, philosophers, theologians, and emperors. We need to re-imagine imperial Romans as having a completely unsurprising diversity of skin pigmentation.
https://theconversation.com/challenging-the-whiteness-of-classics-remembering-the-black-romans-175180

Therefore, this quote by Wagener cannot be correct historically speaking:
Quote
'The Romans gathered the best students from their whole empire in boarding institutions. There they were taught and trained by the best teachers. This effort did not take the fathers’ profession into consideration. Only foreign races—Negroes and Jews—were excluded. In all other areas, Jews enjoyed Roman liberties; Negroes, on the other hand, were granted them only in exceptional cases, when they had made themselves deserving through especially outstanding achievements for the Empire. Jews could even become ‘Roman Citizens,’ as we see in the case of Saint Paul. But the school for pages—that is, the training school for the young men intended to enter public service—was not open to them. I have a similar institution in mind for Germany.' (Wagener, 1978/1985, p. 289)

I would say the videos posted on that thread are very accurate...

Quote
'What people do in their beds’, Hitler used to say, ‘does not interest me so long as relationships do not prejudice the State and its leadership.’
In the context given these words by Hitler are not explicitly anti-homophobic though, it is more a statist position than anything I would argue. It can be used to prove Hitler could not have been homophobic, however. By itself, it is not an anti-homophobic statement. What about a relationship between a dolphin and a human, as an example?

Not a fan personally of the rest of the Wagener quotes you posted either really. To each their own though, I guess...

Quote
'The third point is that a person must be racially flawless. Let him be Germanic, or Roman, or Chinese, or a Jew, or an Indian, or a Negro, and so on. I respect all equally. We can work with and count on all of them. Each has his established traits. Depending on what one is looking for, this one or that one is to be preferred for the job in question. It is no different with people than with horses or dogs. Once one has established the proper race for a particular task, one can rest assured that the task will be resolved.' (Wagener, 1978/1985, p. 143)

The ultimate goal of Aryanism is to create one universal race. I do not feel that last quote by Wagener is anti-tribalist at all?

christianbethel

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2022, 11:08:45 am »
Well, if you're going to shít on me and my contributions you may as well shít on AS' too, because he quotes Wagener on the main site and list the memoir on the 'Resources About Hitler' page.
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

Panzerfaust

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2022, 01:02:03 pm »
Quote
In the context given these words by Hitler are not explicitly anti-homophobic though, it is more a statist position than anything I would argue. It can be used to prove Hitler could not have been homophobic, however. By itself, it is not an anti-homophobic statement. What about a relationship between a dolphin and a human, as an example?

The correct answer was: Statism by itself implies anti-tribalism, does it not?







Are you sure you even understand tribalism versus nationalism at all?

SirGalahad

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2022, 03:16:13 pm »
Honestly, at this point, I think it's preferable to prove why anti-tribalism and anti-ethnocentrism should be and in fact are key tenets of our ideology, than to prove that Hitler himself was opposed to ethnocentrism. Some of the reasonings provided on the main website for Hitler being opposed to it are convincing, but some of them aren't. I think Aryanism should be able to stand on its own without Hitler, because even after debunking some of the myths conjured by the West against Hitler's regime, I think that the National Socialism of that era was too mired in ethnocentrism. Regardless of whether Mein Kampf was just a publicity stunt or not, it's still the main book that Hitler wrote and was explicitly Nordicist, and Alfred Rosenberg's "The Myth of the 20th Century" also talked about a Nordic race and identified the Aryans with the Indo-Europeans, which is a big no-no for us, given what we now know about the Indo-Europeans. The Indo-Europeans/Vedics were practically the opposite of Aryans. A lot of the people that Hitler surrounded himself with were ethnocentrists in general. That's not to say that Hitler wasn't different from the white tribalists of his time, because he most certainly was. He was clearly a different breed from the likes of Winston Churchill and others of the past who supported western colonialism and racism. But I think there are a few key issues that can't go ignored.

My biggest issue with the narrative of "Hitler was just trying to appeal to the masses, who were mostly racist at the time" is this: How were the communists able to promote an anti-ethnocentric worldview in predominantly white countries at the same exact time as the National Socialists then? If they could do it, then logically, nothing precluded Hitler from promoting an anti-ethnocentric racial theory within Germany if he so desired. But he didn't, so Occam's Razor says that it's most likely that he just didn't know enough about racial theory to form the same conclusions that we have, and ended up falling into the trappings of ethnocentrism because of that informational gap, or perhaps just straight up due to bias
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 03:44:01 pm by SirGalahad »
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NSFAN

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2022, 05:41:31 pm »
Honestly, at this point, I think it's preferable to prove why anti-tribalism and anti-ethnocentrism should be and in fact are key tenets of our ideology, than to prove that Hitler himself was opposed to ethnocentrism. Some of the reasonings provided on the main website for Hitler being opposed to it are convincing, but some of them aren't. I think Aryanism should be able to stand on its own without Hitler, because even after debunking some of the myths conjured by the West against Hitler's regime, I think that the National Socialism of that era was too mired in ethnocentrism. Regardless of whether Mein Kampf was just a publicity stunt or not, it's still the main book that Hitler wrote and was explicitly Nordicist, and Alfred Rosenberg's "The Myth of the 20th Century" also talked about a Nordic race and identified the Aryans with the Indo-Europeans, which is a big no-no for us, given what we now know about the Indo-Europeans. The Indo-Europeans/Vedics were practically the opposite of Aryans. A lot of the people that Hitler surrounded himself with were ethnocentrists in general. That's not to say that Hitler wasn't different from the white tribalists of his time, because he most certainly was. He was clearly a different breed from the likes of Winston Churchill and others of the past who supported western colonialism and racism. But I think there are a few key issues that can't go ignored.

My biggest issue with the narrative of "Hitler was just trying to appeal to the masses, who were mostly racist at the time" is this: How were the communists able to promote an anti-ethnocentric worldview in predominantly white countries at the same exact time as the National Socialists then? If they could do it, then logically, nothing precluded Hitler from promoting an anti-ethnocentric racial theory within Germany if he so desired. But he didn't, so Occam's Razor says that it's most likely that he just didn't know enough about racial theory to form the same conclusions that we have, and ended up falling into the trappings of ethnocentrism because of that informational gap, or perhaps just straight up due to bias

Great points! It would have been interesting to see where Hitler took his National Socialism had he not had to fight the Soviets and Bolshevism. Hitler and Goebbels made some excellent points though in the 12 years National Socialism existed, they certainly laid a solid foundation for an ideology to be built upon.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2022, 09:10:00 pm »
"How were the communists able to promote an anti-ethnocentric worldview in predominantly white countries at the same exact time as the National Socialists then? If they could do it, then logically, nothing precluded Hitler from promoting an anti-ethnocentric racial theory within Germany if he so desired."

I have highlighted your bait-and-switch in bold. Communists promoted blank slate theory as their anti-ethnocentric worldview. But National Socialism rejects blank slate theory on principle. As you say, National Socialism in order to be true to its principles would have to promote an anti-ethnocentric racial theory. This, however, is much harder than promoting blank slate theory. Therefore the fact that communists successfully promoted blank slate theory at best implies that Hitler could also have similarly successfully promoted blank slate theory, but does not imply that Hitler could have similarly successfully promoted an anti-ethnocentric racial theory.

"Occam's Razor says that it's most likely that he just didn't know enough about racial theory to form the same conclusions that we have, and ended up falling into the trappings of ethnocentrism because of that informational gap, or perhaps just straight up due to bias"

I agree that Hitler probably had less information than we have about race, but it remains my belief that he knew (even if on intuition alone) that Rosenberg had screwed up badly, which is why:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_the_Twentieth_Century#Influence_of_the_book

Quote
Adolf Hitler declared that it was not to be considered official ideology of the Nazi Party:

I must insist that Rosenberg's "The Myth of the Twentieth Century" is not to be regarded as an expression of the official doctrine of the party. The moment the book appeared, I deliberately refrained from recognizing it as any such thing. In the first place, its title gives a completely false impression... a National Socialist should affirm that to the myth of the nineteenth century he opposes the faith and science of our times... I have myself merely glanced cursorily at it.[7]

According to journalist Konrad Heiden, Rosenberg had given the manuscript to Hitler to vet before its publication. After a year Hitler still had nothing to say. Hitler gave the still-unread work back to him saying, "I feel sure that it's all right."[11]

As for Mein Kampf:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Anti-Slavism_and_Lebensraum_(%22living_space%22)

Quote
Hitler described that when he was in Vienna it was repugnant for him to see the mixture of races “of Czechs, Poles, Hungarians, Ruthenians (Ukrainians), Serbs and Croats, and always that infection which dissolves human society, the Jew, were all here and there and everywhere.”[20]

this is a consistent anti-Turanist attitude (almost identical to what I promote here, by the way). To portray Hitler as an ethnocentrist, your only remaining option is to argue that Hitler was a narrow Germanic ethnocentrist who considered even speakers of other branches of PIE-derived languages too ancestrally distant from speakers of Germanic languages. But then:

Quote
He also wrote that he viewed the Japanese victory over the Russians in the Russo-Japanese War in 1904 as a “blow to Austrian Slavism”.[21]

That he was happy about this makes it impossible for his worldview to be based in any kind of ethnocentrism (unless you want to argue that he believed that Germans and Japanese had common ancestors not shared by Russians).

"I think Aryanism should be able to stand on its own without Hitler"

I am confident that it already does. But that doesn't mean we should try to distance ourselves from Hitler either. The reason why most present-day leftists are misguided is because they still believe Hitler was the bad guy in WWII. Without clearing this up, all leftist rhetoric will continue to sound confused (e.g. comparing Israel to "Nazis"). If we were to stay silent on Hitler, eventually we will get (possibly well-meaning) leftists joining us who start to use similar rhetoric, which will surely corrupt our movement. It is to scare away such leftists from joining that we make such a big show of holding up Hitler as one of our heroes.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 09:35:01 pm by 90sRetroFan »
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