Author Topic: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII  (Read 3349 times)

guest55

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2021, 12:15:25 pm »
Hitler's Jewish Soldiers
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Many men who were partly of Jewish ancestry served in the German armed forces during WW2 - find out how and why they ended up in Hitler's army.


In other words, many people of Jewish blood wanted to be Germans more than they wanted to be Jews. Many Germans rejected their Jewish identity altogether.

Reminder:
Remarkable tale of Hitler's young Jewish friend

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At first glance, the picture of the man hugging the beaming young girl appears to show a scene of great happiness.
(Uhhhh, maybe because it does? LOL! WTF!?!?)
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But a closer look reveals a far darker tale: this is Adolf Hitler, the man behind the murder of six million Jews, and the little girl is Jewish.
(Do Western historians really not realize how retarded sentences like this read?)

Despite this, Hitler would go on to build a friendship with Rosa Bernile Nienau, which only ended when top Nazi officials intervened five years later.

And now this rare, signed image from 1933 is going up for auction in the US.

Alexander Historical Auctions, in Maryland, estimates the picture, taken by photographer Heinrich Hoffmann, could fetch as much as $10,000 (£7,500) when it goes on sale on Tuesday.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46192941

A Westerner can tell you exactly how many Jews died during WWII, but can they tell you how many Germans died? How many Russians died? How many French died? etc.? But they absolutely positively know how many Jews died right? Why is that? This fact alone should make a normal person want to vomit.

90sRetroFan

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guest55

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2022, 12:12:35 am »
What the World Rejected: Hitler's Peace Offers 1933-1939
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"Germany will be perfectly ready to disband her entire military establishment and destroy the small amount of arms remaining to her, if the neighboring countries will do the same thing with equal thoroughness.

... Germany is entirely ready to renounce aggressive weapons of every sort if the armed nations, on their part, will destroy their aggressive weapons within a specified period, and if their use is forbidden by an international convention.

... Germany is at all times prepared to renounce offensive weapons if the rest of the world does the same. Germany is prepared to agree to any solemn pact of non-aggression because she does not think of attacking anybody but only of acquiring security." — Adolf Hitler, May 17th, 1933
https://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/nothanks/wwr00.html




christianbethel

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2022, 02:43:27 pm »
Where do we direct the people who claim Hitler hated 'black' people and use quotes from Mein Kampf and his 1.18.27 speech in Thuriginia?
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.

guest55

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2022, 03:39:20 pm »
Where do we direct the people who claim Hitler hated 'black' people and use quotes from Mein Kampf and his 1.18.27 speech in Thuriginia?

Would be a good place to start I suspect:








Quote
Why is the Black Nazis book and thesis so controversial to so many? Why have extremists on both the left and right attacked the author's premise with such indignant ferocity? This concise interview conducted by Ernest Young of Germany's Zuerst! magazine of author Veronica Kuzniar answers these questions.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18794291-the-controversy-of-black-nazis-ii

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2022, 02:32:31 am »
See also this quote from Otto Wagener where Hitler discusses forming alliances with "the millions of the African, Indian, and yellow peoples."

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg11183/#msg11183

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2022, 01:05:46 am »
In the news recently, plenty of Westerners are outraged that Russia has killed a few thousand Ukrainian civilians in 'indiscriminate' attacks.

Of course, barely any of them cared when millions of people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc. faced the same fate. Or when this happened:
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On the night of 9/10 March 1945, the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) conducted a devastating firebombing raid on Tokyo, the Japanese capital city. This attack was code-named Operation Meetinghouse by the USAAF and is known as the Great Tokyo Air Raid in Japan.[1] Bombs dropped from 279 Boeing B-29 Superfortress heavy bombers burned out much of eastern Tokyo. More than 90,000 and possibly over 100,000 Japanese people were killed, mostly civilians, and one million were left homeless, making it the most destructive single air attack in human history.

The attack on Tokyo was an intensification of the air raids on Japan which had begun in June 1944. Prior to this operation, the USAAF had focused on a precision bombing campaign against Japanese industrial facilities. These attacks were generally unsuccessful, which contributed to the decision to shift to firebombing. The operation during the early hours of 10 March was the first major firebombing raid against a Japanese city, and the USAAF units employed significantly different tactics from those used in precision raids, including bombing by night with the aircraft flying at low altitudes. The extensive destruction caused by the raid led to these tactics becoming standard for the USAAF's B-29s until the end of the war.

There has been a long-running debate over the morality of the 10 March firebombing of Tokyo. The raid is often cited as a key example in criticism of the Allies' strategic bombing campaigns, with many historians and commentators arguing that it was not acceptable for the USAAF to deliberately target civilians
[...]
USAAF planners began assessing the feasibility of a firebombing campaign against Japanese cities in 1943. Japan's main industrial facilities were vulnerable to such attacks as they were concentrated in several large cities, and a high proportion of production took place in homes and small factories in urban areas. The planners estimated that incendiary bomb attacks on Japan's six largest cities could cause physical damage to almost 40 percent of industrial facilities and result in the loss of 7.6 million man-months of labor. It was also estimated that these attacks would kill over 500,000 people, render about 7.75 million homeless and force almost 3.5 million to be evacuated.
[...]
Their M47 bombs rapidly started fires in an X shape, which was used to direct the attacks for the remainder of the force. Each of XXI Bomber Command's wings and their subordinate groups had been briefed to attack different areas within the X shape to ensure that the raid caused widespread damage.[82] As the fires expanded, the American bombers spread out to attack unaffected parts of the target area.[52] Power's B-29 circled Tokyo for 90 minutes, with a team of cartographers who were assigned to him mapping the spread of the fires.[83]
[...]
Some American airmen also needed to use oxygen masks when the odor of burning flesh entered their aircraft.[85]
[...]
Escape frequently proved impossible, as smoke reduced visibility to just a few feet and roads were rapidly cut by the fires.[99][102] Crowds of civilians often panicked as they rushed towards the perceived safety of canals, with those who fell being crushed to death.[104] The majority of those killed in the raid died while trying to evacuate.[105] In many cases entire families were killed.[97] One of the most deadly incidents occurred when the full bomb load of a B-29 landed in a crowd of civilians crossing the Kototoi Bridge over the Sumida River causing hundreds of people to be burned to death.[106]
[...]
The survey also stated that the majority of the casualties were women, children and elderly people.[98] Frank wrote in 1999 that historians generally believe that there were between 90,000 and 100,000 fatalities, but some argue that the number was much higher.[34] For instance, Edwin P. Hoyt stated in 1987 that 200,000 people had been killed and in 2009 Mark Selden wrote that the number of deaths may have been several times the estimate of 100,000 used by the Japanese and United States Governments.[112][115]
[...]
Few concerns were raised in the United States during the war about the morality of the 10 March attack on Tokyo or the firebombing of other Japanese cities.[126] These tactics were supported by the majority of decision-makers and American civilians.
[...]
When the Japanese Government's official broadcaster Radio Tokyo reported the attack it was labeled "slaughter bombing".[95]
[...]
From 11 May until the end of the war the B-29s conducted day precision bombing attacks when weather conditions were favorable, and night firebombing raids against cities at all other times.[145] Further incendiary attacks were conducted against Tokyo, with the final taking place on the night of 25/26 May.[146] By this time, 50.8 percent of the city had been destroyed and more than 4 million people left homeless.
[...]
Some commentators believe that racism motivated the decision to use firebombing tactics, in contrast to the USAAF's greater emphasis on precision bombing in its air campaign against Germany.[170]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_1945)

----

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He was then placed in command of strategic bombing operations against Japan, planning and executing a massive fire bombing campaign against Japanese cities and Operation Starvation, a crippling minelaying campaign in Japan's internal waterways.
[...]
After retiring from the Air Force in 1965, LeMay agreed to serve as Democratic Governor George Wallace's running mate in the 1968 United States presidential election.
[...]
During the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, LeMay clashed again with U.S. President John F. Kennedy and Defense Secretary McNamara, arguing that he should be allowed to bomb nuclear missile sites in Cuba. He opposed the naval blockade and, after the end of the crisis, suggested that Cuba be invaded anyway, even after the Soviets agreed to withdraw their missiles. Kennedy refused LeMay's requests, and the naval blockade was successful.[31]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay

Wow:
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Operation Starvation was a naval mining operation conducted in World War II by the United States Army Air Forces, in which vital water routes and ports of Japan were mined from the air in order to disrupt enemy shipping.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Starvation

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2022, 01:09:38 am »
British plan to kill millions of Germans using chemical warfare and kill millions more through famine. The plan was ready to be deployed in early 1944 and to be implemented in the summer of 1944, but was only scrapped since the Allied invasion in France was progressing rapidly.

They produced over 5 million poisoned 'cakes' which would be dropped across Germany, poisoning cattle (and subsequently poisoning humans who ate them), and then causing widespread famine deaths for those not directly poisoned.

Without exaggeration, this is surely one of the biggest war crimes of WWII? Even if they aborted it at the last moment. Read the article, it's more disgusting than it sounds:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vegetarian


Meanwhile, what were those evil Germans up to? Oh, not committing war crimes with chemical warfare... Also note Churchill's barbarity:
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The Nazis Developed Sarin Gas During WWII, But Hitler Was Afraid to Use It

Even as his Nazi regime was exterminating millions in the gas chambers, [lol] Adolf Hitler resisted calls to use the deadly nerve agent against his military adversaries.

Hitler certainly had the opportunity to use sarin in World War II. The Nazis were actually the ones to develop the deadly nerve agent—accidentally.
[...]
By the end of World War II, Nazi Germany had produced some 12,000 tons of the deadly chemical compound, enough to kill millions of people. From early in the conflict, high-level military officers pressed Hitler to use sarin against their adversaries. But despite such pressure, Hitler declined to employ it as a chemical weapon against the Allied Powers.
[...]
More importantly, perhaps, Hitler must have known that if he used chemical weapons, his adversaries would retaliate in kind. British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, for one, had long argued in favor of the use of such weapons to shorten military conflicts. “I cannot understand this squeamishness about the use of gas,” he wrote in a memo in 1919, when he was Britain’s secretary of war. “It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected.”
[...]
“In the event of the Germans using gas on the Russians…We shall retaliate by drenching the German cities with gas on the largest possible scale.”
https://www.history.com/news/the-nazis-developed-sarin-gas-but-hitler-was-afraid-to-use-it

guest55

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2022, 09:32:22 pm »
Quote
Even as his Nazi regime was exterminating millions in the gas chambers, [lol] Adolf Hitler resisted calls to use the deadly nerve agent against his military adversaries.

How can anyone write a sentence like that and take themselves seriously? Do most people just write sentences and then just not even bother to read what they've just written back to themselves to make sure the sentence makes sense? Talk about cognitive dissonance....

christianbethel

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2022, 10:10:19 pm »
Meanwhile, what were those evil Germans up to? Oh, not committing war crimes with chemical warfare...
What does the True Left board have to say about the various Waffen-SS mutinies? Or the fact a US unit teamed up with a Wehrmacht unit to fight a Waffen-SS unit?
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.
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rp

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2022, 10:12:38 am »
Downfall (2004) -SS officer (speaking to traitor Himmler) ridicules Hitler as a "non-smoking teetotal vegetarian" (4:30):

« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 08:27:23 pm by rp »

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2022, 01:03:16 pm »
Yet another example of ethnic cleansing by the victorious powers of WWII:
Quote
Operation Priboi (Russian: Операция «Прибой» – "Operation 'Coastal Surf'") was the code name for the Soviet mass deportation from the Baltic states on 25–28 March 1949. The action is also known as the March deportation (Estonian: Märtsiküüditamine; Latvian: Marta deportācijas; Russian: Мартовская депортация) by Baltic historians. More than 90,000 Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians, labeled as "enemies of the people", were deported to forced settlements in inhospitable areas of the Soviet Union. Over 70% of the deportees were either women or children under the age of 16.[1]

Portrayed as a "dekulakization" campaign, the operation was intended to facilitate collectivisation and to eliminate the support base for the armed resistance of the Forest Brothers against the illegal Soviet occupation.[2] The deportation fulfilled its purposes: by the end of 1949, 93% and 80% of the farms were collectivized in Latvia and Estonia. In Lithuania, the progress was slower and the Soviets organized another large deportation known as Operation Osen in late 1951. The deportations were for "eternity" with no way to return.
[...]
Based on the Martens Clause and the principles of the Nuremberg Charter,[8] the European Court of Human Rights has held that the March deportation constituted a crime against humanity.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Priboi

I wonder if the "Holocaust" narrative is simply borrowing its stories from things like this:
Quote
Compilation of deportee lists

Special MGB representatives were dispatched to various local offices of MGB to form operative staff that would select the deportees and compile a file on each family.

[...]
Deployment of additional troops

Due to the immense scale of the Operation Priboi, which spanned three Soviet republics, considerable resources were needed. MGB needed to assemble personnel, transport vehicles, and communication equipment all the while keeping the operation secret. MGB also needed to draw up plans for where the operative groups to be deployed and how the deportees to be transported to the railway stations.[12]
[...]
An additional 5,025 submachine guns and 1,900 rifles were brought in to ensure that the operatives were sufficiently armed. Telecommunications was a vital component to ensure smooth running of the operation, thus the MGB commandeered all civilian telephone exchanges for the duration and brought in an extra 2,210 MGB communications personnel.[15] 4,437 freight railway cars were delivered. A total of 8,422 trucks were organised. 5,010 civilian trucks were commandeered and the remaining vehicles were military origin, including 1,202 imported from the Leningrad Military District, 210 from the Byelorussian Military District and 700 from Internal Troops.[15] These additional vehicles were stationed just outside the border of the Baltic Republics in advance so as not to raise suspicion and sent in at the start of the operation.[2]
[...]
Assembly of operative teams
[...]
A deportation of a family was carried out by a small nine–ten-man operative team, which included three USSR MGB agents ("troika"), two republican Destruction Battalion soldiers and four or five local Communist Party activists who were armed by the MGB.[15] ... Care was taken to ensure that the operative team included at least one member of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union or Komsomol to act as an ideological supervisors of the team.[13]
[...]
Round up of families
On average, each operative team was assigned three to four specific families they needed to deport.[13] After locating the assigned farm, the team was to search the premises, identify all residents, and complete their files.
[...]
As the people had already experienced mass deportations, they knew the signs (such as arrival of fresh troops and vehicles) and attempted to hide.[18] Therefore, the Soviets set up ambushes, tracked down and interrogated relatives, carried out mass identity documents checks, etc. Against regulations, MGB operatives would deliver children without parents to the train stations hoping that the parents would voluntarily show up.[13] Not all fugitives were caught by such measures and later, in Lithuania, smaller actions and deportations were organized to locate those that escaped the first Operation Priboi in March.[18]

Here we go again, those railroad cars that Holocaust propaganda tells us supposedly made Germany ruthless and evil--even though all Allied nations used them in post-WWII ethnic cleansings...
Quote
Railway transportation

Once loaded onto the trains, the deportees became the responsibility of the MVD.[12] The loading stations needed special supervision and security to prevent escapes therefore they were, if possible, away from towns to prevent the gathering of deportee family members, friends, or onlookers. MVD also recruited informants from among the deportees and placed people categorized as flight risk under heavier guard.[12] The train cars were mostly standard 20-ton freight cars (Russian: Нормальный товарный вагон) with no amenities. The cars, on average, fit 35 people and their baggage which means about 0.5 square metres (5.4 sq ft) of space per person.[19]
[...]
On average, the train ride lasted about two weeks, but could take almost a month.

This ethnic cleansing was demographically targeted in such a way to have maximum impact on the non-Russian ethnic groups being cleansed. I've never heard anyone allege that the 'Holocaust' was so precisely targeted!
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Some 72% of deportees were women and children under the age of 16.[2] Kruglov, the USSR Interior Minister, reported to Stalin on May 18 that 2,850 were "decrepit solitary old people", 1,785 children without parents to support them, and 146 disabled.[12] About 15% of the deportees were over the age of 60.[12] There were people of very old age; for example, a 95-year-old woman was deported from Švenčionys District, Lithuania.[23]
[...]
The deportees were exiled "for eternity" and no right of return to their home,[3] with the penalty of twenty years of hard labour for attempted escapes. 138 new commandantures were set up to monitor the deportees, censor their mail, and prevent escapes.[12] Deportees were not permitted to leave their designated area and were required to report to the local MVD commandant once a month, failure of which was a punishable offense. The deportees were generally given jobs in kolkhozes and sovkhozes, with a small handful employed in forestry and manufacturing.[15] Living conditions varied greatly by destination, but there was housing shortage almost everywhere. Deportees lived in barracks, farm sheds, mud huts, or became tenants of locals.[12]

Quote
Soviet deportations from Lithuania were a series of 35[1] mass deportations carried out in Lithuania, a country that was occupied as a constituent socialist republic of the Soviet Union, in 1941 and 1945–1952. At least 130,000 people, 70% of them women and children,[2] were forcibly transported to labor camps and other forced settlements in remote parts of the Soviet Union, particularly in the Irkutsk Oblast and Krasnoyarsk Krai.[3] Among the deportees were about 4,500 Poles.[4] These deportations do not include Lithuanian partisans or political prisoners (approximately 150,000 people) deported to Gulags (prison camps).[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Lithuania

FFS, the Soviets began this ethnic cleansing before WWII even began (and only months after the Soviets annexed the Baltic states):
Quote
The first mass deportation was carefully planned by the Soviets. Already in late summer 1940, high-ranking Soviet officials began hinting at planned mass arrests and deportations.[12] NKVD began registering and tracking all "anti-Soviet elements", i.e. people who were judged to be harboring anti-Soviet attitudes solely based on their social standing, political affiliations, religious beliefs, etc. In particular, it targeted policemen, members of the Lithuanian Nationalist Union, Lithuanian Riflemen's Union, various Catholic organizations. In total, NKVD estimated that it needed to register 320,000 people or about 15% of the Lithuanian population,[13] which with family members constituted about half of the population.[14] In preparation for the deportation, NKVD drafted lists of people that would be deported during the first campaign, identified their incriminating background, traced their family members, and located their current residence. The list was fluid and kept changing. For example, a report dated May 13, 1941 identified 19,610 people that should be arrested and deported to prison camps and 2,954 people (mostly family members of those arrested) that should be deported to work camps.[15] A month later, the numbers changed to 8,598 arrested and 13,654 deported family members clearly indicating a policy of eliminating entire anti-Soviet families.[16]
[...]
Ivan Serov issued instructions, known as Serov Instructions, detailing how the deportees should be detained and transported to the trains. The instructions emphasized that the deportations should be carried out as stealthily as possible to minimize panic and resistance. Each four-member executive group was given the task of deporting two families.[18]
[...]
By 1944, Nazi Germany was retreating along the Eastern Front and Soviet forces reached the territory of Lithuania by mid-1944. In October 1944, Soviet officials, including Sergei Kruglov who had experience deporting the Chechen and Ingush people, began circulating ideas about deporting families of "bandits" – men who avoided conscription into the Red Army and joined the Lithuanian partisans.[26]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serov_Instructions

Operation Vesna began in 1948 and Operation Priboi (the 1st Wiki article in this post) began in 1949. 

That wasn't enough, so the Soviets engaged in another major ethnic cleansing operation in 1951:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osen

The 1941 ethnic cleansing operation also has its own Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_deportation


Wow, look at that, religion and cattle cars, two of the things that are considered uniquely evil in the Holocaust narrative:
Quote
Soviet deportations from Estonia were a series of mass deportations by the Soviet Union from Estonia in 1941 and 1945–1951.[1] The two largest waves of deportations occurred in June 1941 and March 1949 simultaneously in all three Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania). The deportations targeted primarily women, children and the elderly calling them 'anti-Soviet elements'. In addition there were deportations based on ethnicity (Germans in 1945 and Ingrian Finns in 1947–1950) and religion (Jehovah's Witnesses in 1951).[1] Estonians residing in the Leningrad Oblast had already been subjected to deportation since 1935.[2][3]

People were deported to remote areas of the Soviet Union, predominantly to Siberia and northern Kazakhstan,[4] by means of railroad cattle cars. Entire families, including children and the elderly, were deported without trial or prior announcement. Of March 1949 deportees, over 70% of people were women and children under the age of 16.[5]
[...]
On 27 July 1950, diplomats-in-exile of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania appealed to the United States to support a United Nations investigation of "genocidal mass deportations" they said were being carried out in their countries by the Soviet Union.[28]
[...]
Russia's view

The Russian Federation, the only legal successor state to the Soviet Union, has never recognized the deportations as a crime and has not paid any compensation.[15][39]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Estonia

The Soviets were even ethnically cleansing people who had ancestry from the Baltic states before the USSR annexed the states!
Quote
The Latvian Operation (Russian: «Латышская операция», Latvian: „Latviešu operācija”) was a national operation of the NKVD against ethnic Latvians, Latvian nationals and persons otherwise affiliated with Latvia and/or Latvians in the Soviet Union from 1937 to 1938 during the period of the Great Purge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Operation_of_the_NKVD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Latvia


It's curious that even with the strong anti-Soviet sentiment that has dominated the US and its allied nations, the history curriculum doesn't include any of the barbarity of the USSR that far exceeds the ruthlessness which Germany allegedly displayed.

Even after writing other posts in this thread, I'm still learning about new crimes:
Quote
Mass operations of the People's Comissariate of Internal Affairs (NKVD)[1] were carried out during the Great Purge and targeted specific categories of people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_operations_of_the_NKVD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Operation_of_the_NKVD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Operation_of_the_NKVD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Operation_of_the_NKVD
(Against ethnic Germans):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD_Order_No._00439

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Chechens_and_Ingush
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Kalmyks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Bessarabia_and_Northern_Bukovina

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Soviet_Union


Again, we are told that NS Germany allegedly exterminating entire villages in occupied territory is something that made them uniquely evil. Yet the Soviets did such things to their own citizens:
Quote
The Khaibakh massacre was the mass murder of the Chechen civilian population of the aul (village) Khaibakh, in the mountainous part of Chechnya, by Soviet forces during the deportations of 1944 on 27 February 1944.[1][2][3][4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaibakh_massacre

Ever wonder why Russians had such a stranglehold on Crimea?
Quote
The deportation of the Crimean Tatars or the Sürgünlik ("exile") was the ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide[c 1] of at least 191,044[c 2] Crimean Tatars in 18–20 May 1944 carried out by the Soviet government, ordered by Lavrentiy Beria, head of the Soviet state security and secret police, acting on behalf of Joseph Stalin.[11][12][13][14] Within three days, the NKVD used cattle trains to deport mostly women, children, the elderly, even Communists and members of the Red Army, to mostly the Uzbek SSR, several thousand kilometres away. They were one of the several ethnicities who were encompassed by Stalin's policy of population transfer in the Soviet Union.

The deportation officially was intended as collective punishment[15] for the perceived collaboration of some Crimean Tatars with Nazi Germany; modern sources theorize that the deportation was part of the Soviet plan to gain access to the Dardanelles and acquire territory in Turkey where the Tatars had Turkic ethnic kin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars


Also see the previous post about other Soviet ethnic cleansings and settler colonialism:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/western-revisionism-of-wwi-and-wwii/msg6582/#msg6582


No wonder so many people from the USSR volunteered in the German military to fight the communists.


----

Quote
My mother has a similar story - I've never asked for details because it's still too hard for her to talk about it. I think it was her grandparents who were deported. Upon returning some years later, they found that the same soldier who removed them from their home and shoved them on the train was now living in their house. They never regained it.
https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/tom6h7/73_years_ago_today_soviet_union_started_the/i26lxsh/

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2022, 01:09:54 pm »
Some old Ukrainians share their opinion that Russians today are more brutal than Germany in WWII:
Quote
Posad-Pokrovske, Ukraine (CNN)This is the final bus out of the last position Ukraine holds on the road to Kherson -- the first and only major city Russia has taken.
[...]
Sat in the back of the van, Vitali breaks down, using his grimy, orange workman's gloves to wipe tears from his eyes.

"Civilians! They killed all the people, these are bastards, these are reptiles, parasites," he says. "They don't fight troops, they fight people. Do you understand? Kill everyone. Worse than the fascists."

Next to him sits Viktor, who remembers the last time a war of this ferocity came to this part of Europe. "Of course I remember," he says quietly. "I saw how the Germans attacked us. They didn't bully people."
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/europe/ukraine-russia-posad-pokrovske-mykolaiv-kherson-intl/index.html


Many people shared their family stories saying the same things.

Lol, and whenever someone brought up their story, all the replies are, "well, you're wrong because you're forgetting about the trillions of Jews." And all the Wikipedia links to the alleged German plot to ethnically cleanse every single "Slav". (Which obviously didn't happen if there are still hundreds of millions of Slavs and countless people who sympathize with the Germans over the Russians. And, besides, it was a plan first developed by Marxist Friedrich Engels in the first place:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg11178/#msg11178
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg11179/#msg11179 )

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My grandmother remembers when the Germans came. She was just a little girl then, and a few German soldiers stayed in her village for a few months, probably while they waited for new orders. They were very civil, never assaulted any villager, they would go around the village looking for food to buy (chickens, eggs, etc) and they always paid a fair price. My gran even remembers being gifted hair ribbons by one sergent, who would also swing her around. She used to call him "Rain". Then, one morning they woke up and the Germans were gone. They had left overnight.

On the other hand, when Russians came, they **** and plundered. In my country everyone thinks of Russians as rapists because of all the women they abused here.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tko9ia/the_germans_did_not_mocked_people_like_that_cnn/i1s4dt9/

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My grandma's village in Ukraine was occupied by nazis and they didn't touch the civilians. Imagine being worse than nazis lol.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tko9ia/the_germans_did_not_mocked_people_like_that_cnn/i1rp4pw/

(See the previous post about what the Soviets did to Lithuania)
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My grandfather who was born in 1930 in Lithuania often told me that the German Nazis treated them so much better than the Russians. This is a sentiment that lives all across eastern europe.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tko9ia/the_germans_did_not_mocked_people_like_that_cnn/i1rz6i0/

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I remember my grandpa told me a story, that when he was a kid, he lived near this small military airfield in a village, and kids used to play there. When germans captured that area he said that their soldiers were mostly nice and even gave chocolate to children. But when the soviets recaptured that area they used children as target practise with planes, not shooting them, but shooting around and stuff.

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My Hungarian grandma said the same. She was out with the animals and soviet planes strafed them occasionally.
Her father was shot in the head by a soviet soldier for no reason too.

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The reason was probably a little known fact that Hungary invaded the soviet union

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So if you are invaded, you have the right to randomly execute civilians when you win the war against the invading country?
Lmao
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tko9ia/the_germans_did_not_mocked_people_like_that_cnn/i1rsvs1/

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Doesn't surprise me, when I asked my Polish grandmother about the German occupation she said that at least the Nazis had some principles and rules they follow, while the Russians behaved like headless chickens and no one was really safe from them.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tko9ia/the_germans_did_not_mocked_people_like_that_cnn/i1sm7xo/

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My grandparents during WW2 in Poland went from living in nazi German occupation which then transferred to Russian occupation at some point. People started begging for the Germans to come back once they realized how awful the Russians were
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tko9ia/the_germans_did_not_mocked_people_like_that_cnn/i1sb31a/

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This still won't change the minds of those who are reddited beyond help. They need the nazis to be the supreme form of evil, they won't comprehend nor accept the fact that there were and are worse people and ideologies. This is what happens when revisionism is rampant in schools and universities (mostly in the West), and concepts such as nuance or context are not explained or included in the process of teaching.

Watching old people crying is heartbreaking.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tko9ia/the_germans_did_not_mocked_people_like_that_cnn/i1rsd9x/


Maybe some of these comments are fake or exaggerated. But if the millions of personal anecdotes from "Holocaust survivors" (the definition of which includes people born after WWII for some reason) are considered historic records without question, then surely random personal anecdotes from non-Jews are at least equally valid.

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2022, 01:17:57 pm »
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Do most people just write sentences and then just not even bother to read what they've just written back to themselves to make sure the sentence makes sense?

If they think too much they might realize even Wikipedia acknowledges how the US and other nations used certain gases as delousing agents:
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1917 Bath Riots occurred in January 1917 at the Santa Fe Bridge between El Paso, Texas and Juárez, Mexico. The riots are known to have been started by Carmelita Torres[1] and lasted from January 28 to January 30 and were sparked by new immigration policies at the El Paso–Juárez Immigration and Naturalization Service office, requiring Mexicans crossing the border to take de-lousing baths and be vaccinated. Reports that **** photographs of women bathers and fear of potential fire from the kerosene baths, led Carmelita Torres to refuse to submit to the procedure. Denied a refund of her transport fare, she began yelling at the officials and convinced other riders to join her. After three days, the discontent subsided, but the disinfections of Mexicans at the U.S. border continued for forty years.
[...]
Between 1915 and 1917, typhus (which was sometimes reported as typhoid fever) spread from Mexico City to the provinces from Veracruz to Jalisco.[3]
[...]
During the same period, Thomas Calloway Lea Jr. was elected as the mayor of El Paso, Texas. Lea sent telegrams to U.S. Senators in Washington demanding a quarantine be put in place to stem the tide of "dirty lousey destitute Mexicans" who would spread typhus into El Paso.[7] The Public Health Service Officer for El Paso, Dr. B. J. Lloyd, admitted there was little danger and opposed a quarantine, but suggested opening de-lousing plants.[8] U.S. officials quickly adopted a policy of sanitizing Mexican immigrants at a disinfecting station in El Paso.
[...]
Men were separated from women and children into separate buildings, where they were stripped of all clothing and valuables. Most clothing and valuables were steamed. Other items which might be damaged by steam (like shoes, hats, or belts) were exposed to cyanogen gas. Attendants examined the **** people for lice.[9] The officers conducting the strip searches were rumored to have photographed the **** women and shared the photos to others at bars.[11] When lice were found on a man, the man's hair was clipped close to his head and the clippings were burned. For a woman, the hair was doused in a mixture of vinegar and kerosene, wrapped in a towel, and left on the hair for at least 30 minutes. If lice were found on re-inspection, the process was repeated. Once attendants declared the lice test had been "passed", the naked people were gathered in a bathing area and sprayed with a liquid soap made of soap chips and kerosene oil.[9]
[...]
After the U.S. entered World War I businessmen were able to lift the 1917 immigration terms for Mexican workers and the exemption lasted until 1921.[24] However, the bathing and fumigations, which later used insecticides and DDT, continued into the 1950s[8] and in the 1920s, authorities at the Santa Fe Bridge fumigated the clothing of Mexicans crossing into the U.S. with Zyklon B
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_Bath_riots

An earlier version of the article made the part about Zyklon B more clear:
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The riots were sparked by the practices of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which required Mexicans to "strip naked and be disinfected with various chemical agents, including gasoline, kerosene, sodium cyanide, cyanogens, sulfuric acid, and Zyklon B before gaining entry into the United States." Zyklon B, (a trade name for hydrogen cyanide) was the fumigation of choice for clothing and bedding on the U.S.–Mexico border, and was later used in the gas chambers of Nazi Germany. Police officers were also accused of taking and sharing **** photography of Mexican women bathers.[1] A year earlier, 50 Mexicans had their bodies sprayed with gasoline and set on fire, causing 27 of them to burn to death.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1917_Bath_riots&oldid=1011116009

Hmm, a few people in the US were burned and died from cruel application of chemical delousing agents. It is easy to imagine a handful of prisoners in Germany were similarly doused in a cruel manner by certain guards, leading to their deaths, and these stories were then blown so out of proportion that a delousing agent used by the US and worldwide somehow became the most deadly murder weapon ever created. Lol.

In particular, the Wikipedia article saying people were stripped of their personal items that could be damaged by the sanitation process sounds almost identical to the concentration camp narrative. Obviously the prisoners are going to be scared and confused and may not have any idea about how the sanitation process works, allowing the "survivors" to just make **** up. But these same sanitation processes were used outside of Germany, and yet no one bothers to think that maybe...some historic revisionism and sloppy sources have cooked up an incorrect narrative... Hmm

christianbethel

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2022, 03:53:37 pm »
From The Waffen-SS Encyclopedia, pp. 260-264

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The Waffen-SS and War Crimes

If issues such as the service of Germanics in the Waffen-SS are complex matters that are easily misunderstood (See pages 84-180), this is no less true when studying the war crimes and atrocities associated with that body. Both are subjects on which much is sometimes presumed, often in the absence of solid facts. Wartime and post-war propaganda has also clouded the issue, and with this has come the desire of many, including many Germans, to identify the Waffen-SS with the commission of war crimes, to the exclusion, or near-exclusion, of other branches of the German armed forces. There is a widespread assumption that the men of the Waffen-SS were indoctrinated political soldiers of one sort or another, with the precise meaning of this term varying with the outlook of the user. This outlook, in turn, is assumed to account for the greater proportion of war crimes attributed to the Waffen-SS. Surviving records, however, support Waffen-SS veterans' claims that political indoctrination was at most a minor part of their training. Instead, indoctrination on political, ethnic, and historical matters was handled by National Socialist youth groups such as the German Youth and the Hitler Youth. Membership in the Hitler Youth and its various subgroups became mandatory in 1936, and was accompanied by state efforts to shape the curriculum of schools and universities according to National Socialist teachings. These processes combined to influence a generation of German young people, including the age groups born through 1928 who were called upon to perform military service in the Second World War. The youth influenced in this way primarily served in the Wehrmacht, which during the course of the war increasingly meant the German Army (das Heer) in particular. Throughout the Third Reich, the German Army consisted overwhelmingly of German men, with ethnic Germans and foreigners contributing only a small percentage of its manpower. By comparison, between 33 and 50 percent of the Waffen-SS consisted of ethnic Germans raised outside of Germany and Germanic or nonGermanic foreigners. These were young men who had not been raised in the atmosphere of National Socialist indoctrination, and had not been subjected to the racial and other poisonous theories of National Socialism. While some had been subjected to fascist or other chauvinistic indoctrination, few had been exposed to, much less professed, the course of propaganda delivered by the Nazi organizations in Germany. Thus, as an organization, the Waffen-SS possessed a smaller percentage of young men who had grown up under the teachings of National Socialism than did the Wehrmacht, especially the German Army. Countering this, it may also be theorized that those German citizens who did serve with the Waffen-SS tended to be volunteers, and that these volunteers were likely to hold a greater belief in the validity of National Socialist teachings. Of course, there was a high percentage of young volunteers in the German Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe, too. Thus, the Waffen-SS cannot fairly be characterized as being comprised mainly of Nazi fanatics, or of having soldiers who had been exposed to more (or, on the average, even as much!) Nazi hatemongering than the soldiers of the German Army. To explain the bad reputation of the Waffen-SS, it is more useful to consider the impact of political opportunism and the nature of anti-partisan warfare. The elite SS armored divisions in particular were a compact, easily recognized target even during the war, when they were singled out for blame by the Western Allies and Soviets if military reverses ensued. Sometimes, they were even blamed by German Army commanders if operations did not produce the desired results. Afterward, these units and others in the Waffen-SS were identified as being culpable for war crimes, with few corresponding accusations being made against German Army units, even when such accusations may have been justified. Interestingly, separate crimes were found for each of the first eight Waffen-SS divisions, and for the sister divisions of three of these. These incidents have sometimes received little study, but are taken at face value and their few particulars are repeated in countless works that rehash one another's content. Specifically, the 1st SS-Panzer Division is associated with the Malmedy Massacre; the 2nd SS-Panzer Division with Tulle-Oradour; the 3rd SS-Panzer Division with Le Paradis; the 4th SS-Polizei-Panzergrenadier Division with Larissa; the 5th SS-Panzer Division with the murder of 600 Galician Jews just after Barbarossa; the 6th SS-Mountain Division with the destruction of Rovaniemi, Finland; the 7th SSVolunteer-Mountain Division and 8th SS-Cavalry Division with massacres in their respective areas of operations; the 12th SS-Panzer Division with the murder of Canadian prisoners of war in Normandy; the 13th Waffen-Mountain Division of the SS with, again, massacres in its area of operations; and the 16th SS-Panzergrenadier Division with the massacre at Marzabotto, Italy. It is not the purpose of this piece to examine each case. It is essential, however, to realize that most cases result from some previous atrocity committed in violation of the laws and customs of war and were often of an exceptionally heinous nature. In other words, they were often a part of the pernicious cycle of cruelty that stem from other, similar acts. Each must be examined individually and closely before any opinion on the general nature of the Waffen-SS can be considered to be well informed. Detailed study reveals many interesting subplots to the various storylines. For example, Fritz Knöchlein became a martyr in certain circles following his execution for the commission of murders at Le Paradis, because evidence exists that he had simply reacted to earlier British war crimes. When Knöchlein is then given heroic stature, however, the matter has been carried too far, as the testimony of veterans and records in his file indicate that by late 1944 he was considered a poor regimental commander and an officer of unsavory character. In another case demonstrating the value of continuing research—the burning of the town of Rovaniemi, Finland—a late war memoir by a Finnish commando has revealed that the town burned down not as a result of a deliberate "scorched earth" tactic, but as a consequence of the actions by his leader who blew up a German ammunition train parked at the railway station. The killing in and around Marzabotto in the autumn of 1944 is normally labelled an "SS crime," yet the anti-partisan operation in that area was not the sort of police action that was typically organized by German police and/or security forces. It was actually a military operation directed by the headquarters of the Luftwaffe I Parachute Corps, which sought to remove threats to its rear area supply lines. The extent and character of the killing in and around this mountain village remains unclear to this day. Somewhere between 700 and 1,000 civilians died there, depending on the account one reads. However, which deaths were the result of combat (plain-clothed partisans and collateral civilian casualties), which were the targets of organized reprisals, and which may have been simply murdered outright remain clouded in controversy. Further, the situation is complicated by the fact that the Emilia-Romagna region in which Marzabotto lies was controlled by Communists at the time and for over 50 years afterward. Clearly, no more venomous political enmity existed than that between National Socialists and Communists, and as in so many similar situations, truth is often one of the first casualties. Investigations of allegations against eight members of the Reichsführer-SS Division allegedly involved in the killing at Marzabotto are actually still going on in Germany as of the time this book was written! "Anti-partisan" becomes the key term in so many of these cases, such as the incidents involving the "Das Reich," "Prinz Eugen," "Florian Geyer," and "Reichsführer-SS" divisions. Before casting judgment, it is worth remembering that before and during WWII, reprisals involving the civilian population in occupied lands were tolerated as a last resort by the Customary Law of Nations, including the principles of the socalled Martens' Clause in the preamble to the Convention, that is, "the usages established among the civilized peoples," "the laws of humanity," and "the dictates of the public conscience." The right to take reprisals against civilian hostages at that time was explicitly acknowledged by the court of the seventh follow-up trial of the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg (1948). It was only in 1949 that the Hague Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August that collective penalties, measures of intimidation or terrorism against civilians, as well as reprisals against persons and taking of hostages were prohibited (Article 33). According to the Customs of War on Land at that time, then, not every killing of a civilian by men of the Waffen-SS was a crime, even before the question is raised about the killing of unarmed civilians compared with those who had taken up weapons. In short, true massacres, such as the executions at and the razing of Lidice in the wake of Reinhard Heydrich's assassination (an incident perpetrated not by the Waffen-SS but by Gestapo, SD, and German and Czech police units), were never allowed under international law, but some reprisals against civilians were. Since the post-war Allied revision of the international conventions governing this distasteful aspect of warfare, modern people generally find such actions inconceivably reprehensible, but such was not the law or the outlook during World War II. Even the wartime (1940) US Army's Field Manual 27-10, The Rules of Land Warfare, allowed hostage taking and reprisals against civilians under some circumstances to "induce the enemy to desist from illegitimate practices" (pp. 89-90). To get to the bottom on those incidents, the nature of partisan warfare must be considered. Such activity took place long before the Second World War, and it has continued up to the time of writing, not least in places like Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. When Axis forces operated in Yugoslavia between 1941 and 1945, they became involved in a style of warfare that had existed there for centuries, and which resumed five decades later in the same regions. "Ethnic cleansing" had been practiced in the Balkans at intervals for centuries before the Germans' arrival, and has been continuing until very recently. The Waffen-SS, with its associations to the German police and security forces, had a substantial proportion of its units involved in anti-partisan warfare, not only in southeastern Europe, but in the Soviet Union, Italy, and elsewhere. These formations became caught up in an unusually cruel and merciless cycle of warfare characteristic of partisan activities as have some elements of the armies of the wartime Allies in the years since. The results are often disturbing and sometimes inexcusable, but not entirely unique to the Waffen-SS. It is within the realm of anti-partisan operations that the bulk of Waffen-SS atrocities can be found. With this understood, it is important to form judgments based on contemporary, not modern, requirements of the rules of land warfare, and on the study of policies which involved German military forces, and elements of the Waffen-SS in particular, in counterinsurgency roles.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 02:10:35 pm by christianbethel »
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

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Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.