Author Topic: Face Shapes and Preferences  (Read 2367 times)

90sRetroFan

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Face Shapes and Preferences
« on: September 09, 2020, 12:33:55 am »
Here is something funny:

https://incels.co/threads/id-be-perfectly-fine-with-an-uglier-woman-but-god-damn-do-i-regret-that-i-will-never-in-this-life-be-with-a-beautiful-woman-that-wants-me.239876/

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Beautiful women are all around us, not only in real life but constantly shoved in our faces on TV and everywhere else. Every man with a pulse desires a beautiful woman, it's in our genes and it's not something that can be ignored. God damn since I was a kid I've been imagining doing all kinds of things with beautiful women. Every time I see a beautiful face I feel it on a genetical level, if I believed in souls I'd say I feel it in my soul. A powerful yearning, a desire that hijacks my brain momentarily.

OK..... And then this is the example the guy includes:



 :D :D :D :D :D :D

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I feel it on a genetical level

Yes, which means his genes are ****. No one who is able to have sex with that should be allowed to reproduce.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 12:40:12 am by 90sRetroFan »

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90sRetroFan

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Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2020, 12:34:50 am »
Our enemies continue to exhibit their inferior taste:

https://vdare.com/posts/finnish-prime-minister-sanna-marin-s-cleavage-the-evolutionary-psychology-angle

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Last December on VDARE.com I advertised the charms of Finland's then-new Prime Minister Sanna Marin, age 34. I don't mean political charms, either: the lady is exceptionally easy on the eye.






Prite

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Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2020, 08:09:49 am »
I think the prime minister of Finland looks similar to the deputy labour minister of Thailand. Not sure if she had a face surgery.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/politics/1962071/narumon-tipped-to-be-next-deputy-labour-minister-in-reshuffle
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 08:12:38 am by Prite »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2020, 10:43:11 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-slams-us-fashion-magazines-121752646.html

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President Donald Trump has bashed leading US lifestyle magazines for not giving his wife, Melania Trump, a single front page cover while he has been in office.

In a tweet on Friday, Trump called the First Lady "the greatest of all time," while retweeting a Breitbart post that said "elitist snobs in the fashion press" were ostracizing the "most elegant First Lady in American history."

Because magazines want their covers to look good, whereas Melania looks like this:



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"If you need any further proof of the shameless bias of the liberal mainstream media, the most stunning First Lady in American history has never graced our nation's major style magazine covers," US actor and Trump supporter James Woods tweeted in February 2020.

The so-called bias could merely be leftists honestly finding Melania ugly? And yes, there is more to elegance than facial features. But let's not get started about Melania's accent.....

90sRetroFan

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Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2021, 11:24:30 pm »
It's not just our enemies who have inferior aesthetical tastes; mainstream journalists are often no better:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/paulina-porizkova-impossibly-hot-nsfw-215934780.html

I will only say she goes well with the Western wallpaper and mirror frame behind her (this is not a compliment):



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There is no doubt that Paulina Porizkova is stunningly beautiful.

Except from people with good taste. But unlike you who expect us to share your tastes, we do not expect you to share our tastes.

rp

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Re: Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2021, 09:24:08 am »
This is what she looks like without makeup:

90sRetroFan

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Re: Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2021, 10:14:19 pm »
I do not support your approach. By posting pictures of her old and without makeup, you could create the wrong impression that she is ugly because of aging and no makeup, rather than because of racial inferiority.

What we should do instead is find the best possible pictures of her, such as in her youth and with makeup:



She is still ugly!



This is how we prove that her ugliness comes directly from her bloodline.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 01:36:41 am by 90sRetroFan »

rp

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Re: Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2021, 10:34:54 pm »
Ok. But I was merely trying to highlight her aesthetic deceptiveness (in addition to her racial inferiority) by pointing out her use of makeup.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2021, 02:41:19 am »
Random bad taste:


rp

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Re: Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2021, 03:00:22 am »
The first is a Paleo-Gentile, the second (at 22 seconds) is a Turanian.


90sRetroFan

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Re: Re: Sexual Dimorphism Preferences
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2021, 10:28:39 pm »
What is going on with mainstream tastes?

https://us.yahoo.com/news/thylane-blondeau-most-beautiful-girl-213356556.html

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Thylane Blondeau, ‘the most beautiful girl in the world,’ rocks a bikini while enjoying a getaway with beau
...
In 2018, her looks earned her a new title – that of "Most Beautiful Face." The ranking was done by independentcritics.com, specifically by professional film critic TC Chandler.

This??



WTF?!

Zea_mays

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Face Shapes and Preferences
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2021, 09:07:46 pm »
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Differences in how people judge face attractiveness can be reliably measured

Individual face preferences are primarily explained by differences in environments

In contrast, face identity recognition is explained primarily by genetic variation

Although certain characteristics of human faces are broadly considered more attractive (e.g., symmetry, averageness), people also routinely disagree with each other on the relative attractiveness of faces. That is, to some significant degree, beauty is in the “eye of the beholder.” Here, we investigate the origins of these individual differences in face preferences using a twin design, allowing us to estimate the relative contributions of genetic and environmental variation to individual face attractiveness judgments or face preferences. We first show that individual face preferences (IP) can be reliably measured and are readily dissociable from other types of attractiveness judgments (e.g., judgments of scenes, objects). Next, we show that individual face preferences result primarily from environments that are unique to each individual. This is in striking contrast to individual differences in face identity recognition, which result primarily from variations in genes [1]. We thus complete an etiological double dissociation between two core domains of social perception (judgments of identity versus attractiveness) within the same visual stimulus (the face).
[...]
Selecting two participants at random produced an average of only 48% agreement (and 52% disagreement) in face preferences (see Figure 1F), even after removing apparent disagreements that could be explained away as self-inconsistency (Supplemental Information). This estimate is consistent with previous literature [11, 12] as well as with the everyday experience that on the one hand, fashion models can “make a fortune with their good looks,” while on the other hand, friends can “endlessly debate about who is attractive and who is not” [11].
[...]
Next, we estimated the contributions of genetic and environmental factors to face IP by comparing the correlation of face IP scores among MZ twins with the correlation of face IP scores among DZ twins. Although MZ and DZ twins share family environment to a similar extent, MZ twins share, on average, twice as much of their genetic variation as DZ twins. The correlations for face IP scores between MZ twins and between DZ twins can thus be used to estimate the proportion of variation in face IP that can be explained by variations in genes, shared environments, and unshared environments. We calculated a maximum likelihood correlation of 0.22 (95% CI: 0.14–0.29) for MZ twins and 0.09 (95% CI: −0.06–0.24) for DZ twins. These two correlations did not significantly differ (Fisher r-to-z transformation; p = 0.1), indicating that most of the variance in face IP is likely attributable to environmental factors.
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(15)01019-2

Of that 52% (the "individual preference" of which faces an individual finds attractive), they are estimating it is ~1/4 determined by genetic instinct/blood memory, and ~3/4 by "environment":
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Controlling for age and sex, the ACE model attributed 22% of variance to (A) additive genetic factors, 0% to (C) shared environmental factors, and 78% to (E) individual or unshared environment and/or measurement error (see Figure 2B and Table 1).


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But does this environmental influence act specifically on face attractiveness judgments? Alternatively, it might act broadly on any judgment that involves a face or on any social judgment. As a strong test of specificity, we consider the case of face identity recognition. Face attractiveness judgments and face identity recognition both involve social evaluation of faces, in the visual domain. Moreover, both require processing of invariant face characteristics, which are known to rely upon inferior occipital and inferior temporal brain regions [23], and deficits in both have been found to coexist in patients [23, 24, 25]. If the etiology of face identity processing were to differ from that of face IP, then that would provide strong evidence that the observed environmental effect is specific not only to social stimuli in general, or to faces in particular, or even to judgments of invariant face characteristics, but rather to a particular subset of judgments of invariant face characteristics. ... Yet despite equal precision of measurement, a sample drawn from the same population, and similarly robust evidence for independence from various non-face categories, we found little to no impact of environment on face recognition ability. Genetic variation accounted for most or all of the reliable face recognition variance, in contrast with face IP (68% versus 22% heritability; p of difference < 1E−14; see Figure 2C and Table 1). Indeed, looking across the behavioral genetic literature, face IP is among the most environmental objectively measured behavioral traits, whereas face identity recognition is among the most heritable [1, 27].

Pay close attention to the second paragraph below. In other words, lower exposure to media or propaganda would allow innate genetic preferences to assert themselves more strongly:
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Previous evidence has indicated that preferences for particular faces or face characteristics are shaped by a range of factors, including personality preferences [28], the rater’s own facial characteristics [29], features of the socioeconomic and cultural environment [30, 31, 32, 33, 34], previous visual experience [35, 36, 37, 38, 39], and history of social learning [19, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44].
[...]
Our study was conducted with a relatively homogeneous sample of Australian twins [45]. Given the sociocultural homogeneity of our sample, the low contribution of genetic variance to face IP is particularly noteworthy: estimates of genetic contributions tend to be higher where environments are less variable [46].

I.e. face preferences from peer pressure/media/propaganda exposure can easily outweigh genetically-determined preferences for faces, and change preferences from generation to generation (or even among siblings if they are exposed to different media):
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Our results further establish that the important environments are individual specific; that is, they are not consistent across family members.


I am skeptical that they have definitively demonstrated that face preferences are primarily a product of "environmental conditions", since, you know:
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Assortative mating is a mating pattern and a form of sexual selection in which individuals with similar phenotypes mate with one another more frequently than would be expected under a random mating pattern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assortative_mating


But this study's finding does suggest that Eurocentric beauty standards and preferences for high sexual dimorphism in the media would indeed inflict significant psychological damage on individuals' innate preferences!


Some additional considerations: this study only used individuals from Australia (i.e. a highly Westernized nation with high media exposure). Additionally, I focused on the potential media exposure has to influence people's preferences, but innocent things like a childhood crush could also be an environmental influence on an individual's preferences. (The study authors do not talk about what potential "environmental" influences would be). I imagine, on average, throughout all individuals, media exposure would be the most significant "environmental influence", although for some individuals, an influence from personal experiences like a crush or whatever could outweigh the preferences presented to them in the media.


Also, it would be interesting to examine the "low agreement participants" (see Figure 1E), whose face ratings highly differed from the average ratings. Do these individuals have particularly strong blood memory in other ways (e.g. are they highly tribalist or anti-tribalist?); do the physical traits of these individuals tend to better correspond to a certain face/body shape (afterall, the average person is just average and does not have an extreme correspondence to any face shape archetype)?

Notice even in the "high agreement participant" in Figure 1D, the average rating for one of the faces was 3.5, but they rated that face as 7 (which was the highest rating allowed). Analyzing outliers like that can be very insightful, but unfortunately it was overlooked.


(I think this pie chart suggests that 50% of facial attractiveness comes from things like geometry, proportion, health, etc. which would be universally considered attractive (labelled "common preference") and then 50% of facial attractiveness comes down to whether an individual finds the face attractive or not? If I'm interpreting that correctly.)


Lastly, the study doesn't seem to describe the faces used in the study (e.g. whether there were any real faces or if they were all uncanny valley computer-generated mesh faces with no hair, or those face composite images, etc.). Nor do they seem to describe what the test for recognizing "face identity" was.
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Stimulus sources: Neutral face stimuli were taken from four sources: (1) the MIT face database, which Bronstad and Russell [S7] used to look at similarity in face preferences between siblings, friends, and spouses (we used all 74 of their images for the pilot, then reduced to 50 images for final version of test), (2) the Glasgow Unfamiliar Face Database (GUFD) [S8] (140 images selected for the pilot, reduced to 50 images for the final test), (3) GenHead software (140 new images generated for the pilot, reduced to 50 images for the final test), and (4) several databases including the Facial Recognition Technology (FERET) Database [S9], the NimStim Set of Facial Expressions [S10], and the Karolinska Directed Emotional Faces (KDEF) [S11] (140 images selected for the pilot, reduced to 50 images for the final test). Faces from these four sources were administered in separate blocks in both pilot study and twin study.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Face Shapes and Preferences
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2021, 09:32:29 pm »
I am not sure I like the methodology of the study, which is based on getting people to comparatively rate a large number of pre-selected faces, none of which are likely to be their personal favourites, and hence does not really reveal their highest facial ideal, but merely determines their unenthusiastic preferences between probably mediocre options. I would find it much more deeply informative to get people to simply post their personal favourites (please feel free to do so in this topic!), just as in casual conversation if I want to learn about the other person's aesthetics, I wouldn't ask them: "Which face do you prefer out of those from the table next to ours?"; I would ask: "Whom do you consider to be the most beautiful person you have ever seen?"

I would be particularly interested in how someone's answer to my above question changes over time. If someone's personal favourite is still the same now as it was during their childhood, they are likely to have a strong blood memory. Whereas if their personal favourite has changed many times over the years, they are likely to be more heavily influenced by other factors (since their genes have remained unchanged).

"But this study's finding does suggest that Eurocentric beauty standards and preferences for high sexual dimorphism in the media would indeed inflict significant psychological damage on individuals' innate preferences!"

Yes, but then at least we can expect media adversarial to Eurocentric beauty standards to also be influential to some degree by the same token. So let's start building up a collection of such media right here!

guest55

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Re: Face Shapes and Preferences
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2021, 03:54:13 pm »
I don't find most humans attractive at all by looks alone. There has to be something else going on with their personality to even catch my eye, I've noticed. I think most humans are quite ugly actually. I think many non-humans look more pleasing to the eye than humans, but not in a sexual way either. Humans for the most part are quite boring I feel, physically especially. Then again I've never really been in a relationship with a human either, nor do I have any real human friends....

Perhaps this is why I have such a hard time relating to this type of material?

90sRetroFan

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Re: Face Shapes and Preferences
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2022, 10:29:47 pm »
I see what you are saying, but our initial aim here is relatively unambitious; it is simply to counter the Eurocentric messaging often found in media.

One big problem is that the actual Eurocentrists often accuse others of being Eurocentrist, thus creating confusion. For example, non-Western animation artists are frequently accused of Eurocentrism by Westerners who claim that the artists draw their characters to look "white" (despite them being "non-white" storywise). Actually, it is the accusers who are the Eurocentrists by presuming that the characters are drawn to look "white" when in reality the characters are merely drawn to look beautiful, because in the accusers' (not the artists') minds, beautiful = "white". Fortunately, eventually someone decided to debunk the accusers once and for all, showing that in fact the artists' own idea of beauty is explicitly not "white"-inspired (plus we see yet again how absurd the term "white" is, when the "non-white" models' skin colours are nearer to optical white than the "white" models' skin colours):



This kind of thing is what we should be doing also.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 10:44:30 pm by 90sRetroFan »