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Posted by: "MexicanAliens"
« on: September 26, 2023, 02:23:42 pm »

Of course Watters had to start the segment with "Mexican Aliens":

Jesse Watters: Alien story out of Mexico just had a major development
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzbPFqetev0
Posted by: SirGalahad
« on: July 27, 2023, 11:20:50 pm »

Oh yeah, and another thing: if these aliens are so intelligent and have clearly mastered space travel, why do they keep **** crashing into Earth? The fact that David Grusch specified that this was a UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering operation that has been happening for decades (implying that this is at least a somewhat regular occurrence), makes this even less believable. The aliens must not be intelligent after all, or the more likely answer is that this is fake
Posted by: SirGalahad
« on: July 27, 2023, 10:58:51 pm »

Since no one has posted about the most recent UFO hearing featuring David Grusch yet:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ufo-hearing-congress-uap-takeaways-whistleblower-conference-david-grusch-2023/

Quote
A former military intelligence officer-turned-whistleblower told House lawmakers that Congress is being kept in the dark about unidentified anomalous phenomena, known as UAPs or UFOs, alleging at a hearing that executive branch agencies have withheld information about the mysterious objects for years.

Quote
Grusch served as a representative on two Pentagon task forces investigating UAPs until earlier this year. He told lawmakers that he was informed of "a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program" during the course of his work examining classified programs. He said he was denied access to those programs when he requested it, and accused the military of misappropriating funds to shield these operations from congressional oversight. He later said he had interviewed officials who had direct knowledge of aircraft with "nonhuman" origins, and that so-called "biologics" were recovered from some craft.

I’m not sure that I buy this whole story that David Grusch is spinning, at the moment. I have always believed that alien life (including with human-level intelligence) exists. The universe is simply too vast for it to make sense that we’re somehow the only life, or even intelligent life, in the universe. And it’s not like I’m especially trusting of the current US government. But what reason exactly would the people responsible have, to hide everything not just from the general public, but even members of Congress? I can’t really think of any. It just seems like bait for UFO truthers to latch onto. I’ll believe when there’s more evidence than Grusch’s hearsay. Because we’ve been hearing “These people know secret knowledge about aliens, bro! I even have proof!” for decades, and nothing truly substantial ever comes from it

But on the off chance that this IS real and will make its way into the history books as our first definitive awareness of alien life, I’m more terrified than elated. But not for the human genocide or general alien apocalypse reasons that most people are afraid. I’m terrified because it means that we are not destined to win. If an alien species has successfully developed interstellar or even intergalactic travel, that means that the Aryanists from those home planets failed at our current mission: preventing further advancements in space travel (especially space colonization), and then taking control to eventually bring about the total elimination of suffering and violence. Aliens visiting earth most likely means that Elon Musk’s ideological camp won, at least on those planets. Of course, I always knew that there was a possibility of failure, and in fact it could be the most likely outcome for us here on Earth. But if this ends up being real, it’s just kind of sad
Posted by: 2ThaSun
« on: June 20, 2023, 05:01:15 pm »

Quote
these alien debates are taking away from energy and eyes that should be used to discuss the _ethics_ of the impending human-made AI crisis.

The EU seems to be ahead of most on this subject:

EU lawmakers pass landmark artificial intelligence regulation
Quote
The European Union’s AI Act is the first comprehensive set of regulations for the artificial intelligence industry.
The law proposes requiring generative AI systems, such as ChatGPT, to be reviewed before commercial release. It also seeks to ban real-time facial recognition.
It comes as global regulators are racing to get a handle on the technology and limit some of the risks to society, including job security and political integrity.
Quote
The European Parliament has approved the bloc’s landmark rules for artificial intelligence, known as the EU AI Act, clearing a major hurdle for the first formal regulation of AI in the West to become law.

AI has become a key battleground in the global tech industry as companies compete for a leading role in developing the technology — particularly generative AI, which can generate new content from user prompts. The rules are the first comprehensive regulations for AI.

What generative AI is capable of, from producing music lyrics to generating code, has wowed academics, businesspeople and even school students. But it has also led to worries around job displacement, misinformation, and bias.

During a critical Wednesday vote, the Parliament adopted the AI Act with 499 votes in favor, 28 against and 93 abstentions. The regulation is far from becoming law, but it is likely to be one of the first formal rules for the technology globally.

European Parliament members agreed to bring generative AI tools like ChatGPT under greater restrictions. Generative AI developers will be required to submit their systems for review before releasing them commercially.

The Parliament also decided to hold firm with a ban on real-time biometric identification systems, as well as controversial “social scoring” systems.

Human rights campaigners had expressed concern over an attempt by the European People’s Party to water down the ban. Lawmakers nevertheless pressed ahead with it and agreed to prohibit biometric surveillance from all public settings...
Entire article: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/14/eu-lawmakers-pass-landmark-artificial-intelligence-regulation.html

Makes me wonder, if there was actually an accurate and incorruptible\truthful "social scoring system" in place in the West how would "whites" score? How would Trump supporters score?

Then there's also this that came through my news feed today:

The expansion of the universe could be a mirage, new theoretical study suggests
Quote
New research looking at the cosmological constant problem suggests the expansion of the universe could be an illusion.
Entire article: https://www.livescience.com/physics-mathematics/dark-energy/the-expansion-of-the-universe-could-be-a-mirage-new-theoretical-study-suggests
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: June 19, 2023, 11:11:36 pm »

Quote
Distraction from what?

I'm not entirely sure either, but if all futurist and high-tech discourse is focused on the evidence or lack of evidence surrounding these UFOs, this directs the discourse away from other topics. Such evidence might not ever be shown to normal people, due to being "classified"--and thus the distraction/debate can be prolonged endlessly.

Whether it is specifically the intended purpose or not, these alien debates are taking away from energy and eyes that should be used to discuss the _ethics_ of the impending human-made AI crisis. While people are too busy discussing aliens for years (which is an incredibly important topic we should take seriously, which is why I have made these posts about it), AI development will continue to occur in the background. Until one day, boom. It's here and the Pandora's box cannot be closed. Instead, if the millions of people who are currently excited or having their world fall apart from the potential existence of aliens were focused on discourse about the impending existence of AI and how that will upend human life as we know it, there is the potential that AI development could be halted or severely restricted. At the very least, it would become too controversial for it to go full-steam-ahead with no oversight.

Aliens sending some investigatory probes will be nothing compared to living in a human-made Earth where our economic systems completely collapse from AI, the climate crisis renders vast stretches of the Earth uninhabitable, and then most of the populace are enslaved by Boston Dynamics Terminators.

Techno-accelerationists want to open the box as quickly as possible to prevent any possibility that someone could stand in their way. This includes private companies and the US military/government as well. With all these spectacular claims of aliens, the public might not find it controversial if the government decides to dedicate a large budget to "investigating" (or, worse, reverse engineering) things. In reality, this could be used as a cover for dedicating a large budget to develop the final push for technology that should never be invented in the first place. And as I speculated, they might already have AI and are trying to make some damage-control narrative about how it got here!


The alien discussions also make it more difficult for us to argue against space colonization if "the masses" reach a "consensus" that its already happening from other species. (This tactic is called "poisoning the well" in regular debates and "manufacturing consent" in the context of politics). Again, note that the dominant framing of discourse right now hinges on evidence (which may never appear), while our side of the debate focuses on ethics or even metaphysical and spiritual subjects.

Everything about this is pushing people to investigate/debate the wrong topics from the wrong framing.
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: June 19, 2023, 09:47:54 pm »

Quote
How do westerners and their sycophants plan on getting an ever increasingly powerful AI (especially if it's designing it's own microchips) to go along with the "democracy is the greatest form of government ever invented" lie?

Well, the mastermind inventors behind AI basically think they are gods, and the CEOs of rich tech companies already buy politicians to implement their desires. So neither of them care about the democracy.

As for average people, from what I've seen in "futurology" discussions, transhumanists think AI is the next step in evolution, and they are ready for humanity to be left in the dust. So I guess they are technocrats who don't care about the low-tech masses. Outside of AI discussions, average Western tech junkies seem to think they will be space conquistadors or rule over Mars fiefdoms for being "early adopters" who are supportive of the megalomaniac CEOs. So I doubt they are too worried about democracy either.

Potential aliens aside, the dangers on Earth are heating up as multiple ignoble factions come ever closer to a decisive moment ending democracy.
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: June 19, 2023, 09:39:56 pm »

More theoretical bad news. How long would it take the colonize the Milky Way galaxy?

By some calculations, it could take as little as 500,000 years for probes to spread throughout the entire galaxy... This wouldn't necessarily mean advanced life could colonize the galaxy within this time span, but the probes would likely be sentient machines, or could carry simple biological life to "seed" planets.

Quote
The concept of self-replicating spacecraft, as envisioned by mathematician John von Neumann, has been described by futurists including physicist Michio Kaku and discussed across a wide breadth of hard science fiction novels and stories. Self-replicating probes are sometimes referred to as von Neumann probes. Self-replicating spacecraft would in some ways either mimic or echo the features of living organisms or viruses.[1]

Von Neumann proved that the most effective way of performing large-scale mining operations such as mining an entire moon or asteroid belt would be by self-replicating spacecraft, taking advantage of their exponential growth.[2] In theory, a self-replicating spacecraft could be sent to a neighbouring planetary system, where it would seek out raw materials (extracted from asteroids, moons, gas giants, etc.) to create replicas of itself. These replicas would then be sent out to other planetary systems. The original "parent" probe could then pursue its primary purpose within the star system. This mission varies widely depending on the variant of self-replicating starship proposed.

Given this pattern, and its similarity to the reproduction patterns of bacteria, it has been pointed out that von Neumann machines might be considered a form of life. In his short story "Lungfish" (see Self-replicating machines in fiction), David Brin touches on this idea, pointing out that self-replicating machines launched by different species might actually compete with one another (in a Darwinistic fashion) for raw material, or even have conflicting missions. Given enough variety of "species" they might even form a type of ecology, or – should they also have a form of artificial intelligence – a society. They may even mutate with untold thousands of "generations".

The first quantitative engineering analysis of such a spacecraft was published in 1980 by Robert Freitas,[2] in which the non-replicating Project Daedalus design was modified to include all subsystems necessary for self-replication. The design's strategy was to use the probe to deliver a "seed" factory with a mass of about 443 tons to a distant site, have the seed factory produce many copies of itself there to increase its total manufacturing capacity over a 500-year period, and then use the resulting automated industrial complex to construct more probes with a single seed factory on board each.

It has been theorized[3] that a self-replicating starship utilizing relatively conventional theoretical methods of interstellar travel (i.e., no exotic faster-than-light propulsion, and speeds limited to an "average cruising speed" of 0.1c.) could spread throughout a galaxy the size of the Milky Way in as little as half a million years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft

The Milky Way galaxy is at least 10 billion years old. If life exists in the galaxy, it would only take sentient probes around 0.0005 billion to spread throughout the entire thing... At least 20,000 periods of 500,000 years have elapsed in our galaxy. We have 100 billion (200,000 more periods) until we are "safe" from inter-galactic colonization.
Quote
The oldest stars in the Milky Way are 13.4 billion years, give or take 800 million years. This is somewhat close to what the age of the Universe is (which hovers around 13.7 billion years). By measuring the age of these stars, and then calculating the interval between their formation and the death of the previous generation of stars, we can come to an approximate age of the Milky Way as 13.6 billion years.
[...]
The age of the Milky Way is a tricky question to answer, though, because we can say that the oldest stars are 13.4 billion years old but the galaxy as we know it today still had to form out of globular clusters and dwarf elliptical galaxies in an elegant gravitational dance. If you want to define the age of the Milky Way as the formation of the galactic disk, our galaxy would be much younger. The galactic disk is not thought to have formed until about 10 – 12 billion years ago.
https://www.universetoday.com/21822/age-of-the-milky-way/

More realistically, however, Earth is likely being probed specifically because it is deemed "habitable"--assuming biological alien life follows the same general bio-chemical mechanisms of Earth life. Therefore, self-replicating machines may not yet have spread throughout the entire universe.

The way human astronomers identify "habitable" planets is through various characteristics like the chemical signatures for water, size, composition, location, etc. Assuming alien life uses the same organic compounds in their bio-chemistry as Earth life, Earth would fit the criteria for a planet to examine closely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhabitable_planet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_analog

The closest "habitable" planet is Teegarden's Star b, which also has the highest "Earth Similarity Index" thus far known. It is 12.5 light years away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teegarden%27s_Star_b

It seems one of the fastest space probes created by humans in the Voyager 1, which reached a speed of 0.00006 of the speed of light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(speed)

This means it would take 208,333 years for a craft travelling at that speed to travel between Teegarden's Star b and Earth (assuming it was going that speed the whole time--in reality it would need to accelerate up to that point).

Assuming the probes are real, they could have come from a planet farther away, but also could have travelled faster than Voyager 1. The vast time it takes for inter-planetary travel also means the alien civilization has unfathomably more advanced technology than when it first sent the probes. ...Or maybe they went extinct.


(More bad news--even if we aren't being probed by aliens, we could soon become the aliens doing the probing):
Quote
Identifying ‘habitable worlds’ is a top priority for astronomers in the decade ahead

Over the next decade, scientists aim to unlock the secrets of the universe and identify Earth-like planets outside of our solar system to find other habitable worlds. Ultimately, this research could reveal if we truly are alone.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/04/world/astro2020-decadal-report-habitable-planets-scn/index.html


If there is alien life out there, how many civilizations are we dealing with? It seems it is impossible to estimate.
Quote
The theories and principles in the Drake equation are closely related to the Fermi paradox.[29] The equation was formulated by Frank Drake in 1961 in an attempt to find a systematic means to evaluate the numerous probabilities involved in the existence of alien life.
[...]
The Drake equation has been used by both optimists and pessimists, with wildly differing results. The first scientific meeting on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI), which had 10 attendees including Frank Drake and Carl Sagan, speculated that the number of civilizations was roughly between 1,000 and 100,000,000 civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy.[31] Conversely, Frank Tipler and John D. Barrow used pessimistic numbers and speculated that the average number of civilizations in a galaxy is much less than one.[32] Almost all arguments involving the Drake equation suffer from the overconfidence effect, a common error of probabilistic reasoning about low-probability events, by guessing specific numbers for likelihoods of events whose mechanism is not yet understood, such as the likelihood of abiogenesis on an Earth-like planet, with current likelihood estimates varying over many hundreds of orders of magnitude. An analysis that takes into account some of the uncertainty associated with this lack of understanding has been carried out by Anders Sandberg, Eric Drexler and Toby Ord,[33] and suggests "a substantial ex ante probability of there being no other intelligent life in our observable universe".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox#Drake_equation



...Some theoretical good news for inter-galactic ahimsa? Of course, those probes could go rogue by "evolving" to no longer obey their mission, inadvertently spread life, or inadvertently serve as a catalyst for another civilization to develop advanced technology in defense (or through reverse engineering a captured probe).
Quote
The berserker hypothesis, also known as the deadly probes scenario, is the idea that humans have not yet detected intelligent alien life in the universe because it has been systematically destroyed by a series of lethal Von Neumann probes.[1][2] The hypothesis is named after the Berserker series of novels (1963-2005) written by Fred Saberhagen.[1]
[...]
In his 1983 paper "The Great Silence", astronomer David Brin summarized the frightening implications of the berserker hypothesis: it is entirely compatible with all the facts and logic of the Fermi paradox, but would mean that there exists no intelligent life left to be discovered. In the worst-case scenario, humanity has already alerted others to its existence, and is next in line to be destroyed.[4]
[...]
There is no reliable or reproducible evidence that aliens have visited Earth.[5][6] No transmissions or evidence of intelligent extraterrestrial life have been observed anywhere other than Earth in the Universe. This runs counter to the knowledge that the Universe is filled with a very large number of planets, some of which likely hold the conditions hospitable for life. Life typically expands until it fills all available niches.[7] These contradictory facts form the basis for the Fermi paradox, of which the berserker hypothesis is one proposed solution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_hypothesis
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: June 19, 2023, 09:36:38 pm »

I watched Grusch's interview released by NewsNation on June 11th. It seems like it was a 1 hour mash up of interviews released with him the prior week and maybe some new material? Or maybe it's just a re-release of the previous week's material? I wasn't entirely clear.

After watching it, it seems like a psyops is definitely on the table.

In his interview with NewsNation on June 5th or 6th (shown in the June 11th recap) Grusch said he did not personally see the UFOs he's claiming exist--it seems his claims come from talking to various individuals who disclosed to him that they were involved in UFO/UAP programs, Grusch's examination of some photos and reports, and things he was briefed on. When he pushed to be able to investigate the secret programs he was being told about personally, he was faced with "pushback". It sounds like his whistleblowing is based on the people who had shut him down once he tried to investigate.

He was also careful to specify he thinks the "craft" are created by "non-human intelligence", rather than extraterrestrials. In other words, recent phenomena could be a human-made AI and he wouldn't necessarily be lying. It seems like the main "evidence" he pointed to is that the "craft" allegedly made of "advanced materials" with atypical radiological signatures. Humans have always been inventing new materials, so that doesn't seem like convincing evidence on its own.

He also said football-field size craft have been observed. I forget if he said whether his source for that was exclusively interviews, or if he directly analyzed footage. ...Astronomers and the vast network of private satellites haven't seen anything "weird" like that before..? Hmm...

Multiple times he claims there is a "cold war" over the recovery and reverse engineering of the alleged technology. There is already an arms race for human-made AI and advanced tech, so this cold war would exist even without aliens.


"Credible" former government officials have been used in various programs in the past to conduct disinfo campaigns to the public (most notably to stir up the Iraq war), so I wouldn't be surprised if Grusch was as well. Articles and discussion comments keep stressing his personal "credibility", rather than the credibility of his supposed evidence. Seems fishy.

Perhaps we can sigh a brief relief (until Grusch's alleged evidence gets revealed). Nevertheless, the human-made AI crisis and the crisis of human space colonization is real and will soon curse our world. We will soon be those aliens unless something is changed.

---

Here's another possibility. This is the "best" case scenario I guess. Just a bunch of claims that got blown out of proportion, spread around until people believed them, and the truth got so confused that there needed to be a "task force" to investigate it.
Quote
My fear is Grusch and all of the known UFO names over the last 5-6 years are all just quoting each other.

Grusch may have government folks who told him everything he said to congress…what if those sources are Mellon and Elizondo.

What if Mellon and Elizondo’s sources are military folks with extraordinary claims. What if those folks with extraordinary claims use Mellon and Elizondo as the people who view their claims as credible when speaking to people like Kean and Coulhart.

What if Mellon and Elizondo have confirmation bias because reputable news sources say they have witness that have government officials who can back up their claims.

What if Grusch trusts his sources as credible because of their track record of being credible…

Etc. Etc.

My point is…it concerns me there’s like a group of 10 people who are mostly confirming and validating themselves based on reports from other people of things they’ve said.

Purely a devil’s advocate POV but that concerns me about DG.

Edit: let’s say Lazar tells Lear there’s 12 crafts…then Lear goes on this interview and says there’s 12 crafts…then Knapp says, I’ve got two corroborating witnesses that say there’s 12 crafts…then Kean interviews someone who’s says I know from 2 sources we have 12 crafts….then someone says, WOW…Lazar and Lear were right because a reputable journalist corroborated there were 12 crafts, they were right all along! Then someone from within the government says, I know this seems outlandish but there might actually be something to this. Then someone who’s tasked with investigating asks the people within the government who believe the reports they’re hearing are true but can’t back it up says…I know these reports sound crazy but I’ve spoken with high level government officials who believe this is true.
https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14d1z01/john_lear_corroborates_12_to_15_recovered_alien/jonvlb7/

-----------

Although in all honestly, the risk assessment here is so grave that I think we should assume the worst until proven otherwise. Assuming all the claims are false but subsequently being proven wrong is too grave a situation to allow ourselves to be in. Even the "best" case scenario means the world's militaries and corporations are on the brink of creating sentient AI, and that human-led space colonization efforts will likely become a reality within our lifetimes.

We are rapidly approaching Judgment Day from the Terminator series, and we must reassess our priorities accordingly.
Posted by: 2ThaSun
« on: June 13, 2023, 02:49:52 pm »

Distraction from what?

I'm not sure either, but I'm beginning to think it's all just an attempt to keep the masses interested in space, and thus also eventually support attempts at colonizing space...
Posted by: guest98
« on: June 13, 2023, 02:15:00 pm »

Distraction from what?
Posted by: 2ThaSun
« on: June 12, 2023, 11:46:51 pm »

Why all the UFO talk?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEFTBbZ1b1M

Comment:

Quote
Distraction. That's why.

So many seem to feel it's all a distraction from something...?
Posted by: 2ThaSun
« on: June 11, 2023, 01:19:46 pm »

NASA reveals UFO sightings in Middle East in first ever public meeting on UFO and UAP sightings
Quote
NASA reveals UFO sightings in Middle East in first ever public meeting on UFO and UAP sightings | Various of first public meeting by nasa study team helping pentagon track UFOs and UAPs.
#nasa #ufo #uap #dailymail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYZPfgrmQ4Q
Posted by: 2ThaSun
« on: June 10, 2023, 06:43:00 pm »

Quote
-Trying to deal with this issue in a society which operates using democracy and private, uncontrolled, economic enterprise will be an unfathomable risk and disaster. In other words, besides the (human-made) AI crisis and the climate crisis, the we-are-not-alone/ultra-high-tech-recovered-from-aliens crisis represents another angle that pressure can be applied in order to return to a functional form of government.

Which raised an interesting question for myself also: How do westerners and their sycophants plan on getting an ever increasingly powerful AI (especially if it's designing it's own microchips) to go along with the "democracy is the greatest form of government ever invented" lie? It seems to me that if Westerners believe that their way of living on a finite planet is the best model, ie. Western Civilization, ever invented, they will need to somehow force an ever expanding artificial intelligence to accept these lies also. I would love to know how the western minded plan to accomplish this feat?

Quote
However, the existence of life outside of Earth has significant implications for our ultimate end-game and anti-technologist and anti-Yahwehist principles. This deeply concerns me.

Indeed.
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: June 10, 2023, 12:01:21 pm »

If this is just a psyops to distract us from something, what are the possibilities that may have happened?


-The US government is preparing us for the psychological horror of some kind of advanced drone warfare (presumably carried out by human-made sentient machines) that will soon be practical.

-The US or Chinese governments have invented sentient drone machines, but have lost control of them already, and blaming "aliens" for their creation is less likely to threaten existing power structures than being forced to admit the evil humans have created. I'm not sure if Israel, Russia, or other nations currently have the computing power to develop sentient AI. Government research into technology seems to be more advanced than private sector research, so I think it is less probable that a private company has developed a sentient AI more advanced than anything companies have released publicly thus far.

-An excuse to raise the military budget and generate funding for programs to develop (currently non-existent) sentient machines to "respond" to the non-existent alien threat? With private companies on the brink of developing such AI, surely the US government/military wants to dedicate resources in order to be the first organization to create this AI. No doubt Putin isn't the only one to share the following attitude:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/4/16251226/russia-ai-putin-rule-the-world

-Whether aliens are here are not, as this topic becomes more widely discussed, Yahwehists will take the opportunity to push the importance of space colonization by humans and the continued advancement of technology. Maybe this will be the pretense to "build a global consensus" that pursuing advanced space colonization and propagation of organisms throughout the galaxy must be the primary focus of humanity. The need for some type of global coordination in response to these supposed aliens is something that Grusch has stressed. Even if aliens haven't found us, anti-Yahweists/anti-space-colonizationists will have to be prepared to come out on top whenever the time comes to build a "global consensus" on the matter.

-???
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: June 10, 2023, 11:58:46 am »

There does not yet appear to be any solid evidence to believe the story is true just yet.

And here is a discussion expressing some possible reasons for skepticism:
https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/143k3oz/some_reasons_for_skepticism_regarding_recent/


However, the existence of life outside of Earth has significant implications for our ultimate end-game and anti-technologist and anti-Yahwehist principles. This deeply concerns me.

There are estimated to be 200 billion galaxies in the universe, and an estimated one septillion (1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) stars. In the interview with Kaku in the previous post, he says in the Milky Way alone there are at minimum 100,000,000,000 planets, each one of which is orbiting a different star.

Life exists on Earth. Intelligent life exists on Earth. Intelligent life on the cusp of creating sentient machines exists on Earth. Therefore, the probability of such things is non-zero, and, on a large enough scale, _will_ occur again somewhere else in the universe.

In the past, it seems the movement's general attitude has been that searching for life outside of Earth and helping it transcend would be a never-ending goose chase involving the necessity to create increasingly advanced technology and reproduce for a near-infinite amount of generations, and we will simply have to have faith that noble forces outside of Earth will similarly transcend the material realm.

It may be time to reopen our thoughts on what the ultimate long-term end-game will have to be if non-Earth life has truly found us.

----

If this is real, the assumptions I think we can make are:

-The non-Earth "craft" are sentient machines and do not involve "biological" organisms directly piloting them. Based on lifeforms on Earth, travelling vast distances across the galaxy or between galaxies will be excessively difficult due to our lifespans and food/environmental requirements. Machines would also be able to enter more extreme environments with a greater level of pressure, toxins, etc. than a biological organism, as well as fit inside a smaller craft and be able to tolerate higher amounts of acceleration/g-forces.

-It also seems unlikely that they are piloted remotely by biological organisms (for example, like a human Mars rover). There is significant lag time in commutations (governed by the speed of light) that is evident even in Moon missions, so the base for a remotely piloted craft would have to be somewhere in our solar system, which does not seem likely.

-The sentient machines and their creators probably originate from somewhere close to us, most probably within our own galaxy or Local Group of galaxies (5 million light year radius):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_habitable_zone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearest_galaxies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Group

-They could not have originated more than a 16 billion light year radius away from us. This is the current cosmic event horizon (read below.)

-If a giant mothership, on its way to enslave all of us, was going to reach Earth within our lifetimes, astronomers would probably have noticed something unusual by now. But future generations may not be as lucky as us. We have a duty to them to take this seriously before it becomes an unsolvable crisis.

-If the claims are credible, Grusch (the whistleblower) and others associated with him are claiming the earliest evidence of humans capturing UFOs dates back to 1933. I.e. whatever is happening has been ongoing for at least 90 years.
https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/143ivlu/sunday_newsnation_report_is_possibly_going_to/

-Trying to deal with this issue in a society which operates using democracy and private, uncontrolled, economic enterprise will be an unfathomable risk and disaster. In other words, besides the (human-made) AI crisis and the climate crisis, the we-are-not-alone/ultra-high-tech-recovered-from-aliens crisis represents another angle that pressure can be applied in order to return to a functional form of government.

----

In terms of physics and astronomy, what do we have to work with to understand the ultimate fate of the universe?


Our understanding of physics is that light speed is the fastest speed possible for a particle to travel.

Our understanding of the observable universe is that it is expanding, and at an accelerating rate.

The speed of light is ~299,792 km/s, which means that if space between two points in the universe is expanding faster than that, it can never be reached with our current understanding of physics. (Something like "wormholes", multi-dimensionality of the universe, or studies of quantum mechanics invalidating our current knowledge could change this assumption). This threshold is called the cosmic event horizon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_horizon

Our understanding of physics is that an object with mass cannot actually reach the speed of light. Therefore, the time to reach the cosmic event horizon for spacecraft is smaller than the time to reach the horizon for light. I am not familiar enough with the topic to make any estimates of how much less time.

Here is a further explanation of the cosmic event horizon.
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because the expansion of the universe is accelerating, it is projected that most galaxies will eventually cross a type of cosmological event horizon where any light they emit past that point will never be able to reach us at any time in the infinite future,[30] because the light never reaches a point where its "peculiar velocity" towards us exceeds the expansion velocity away from us (these two notions of velocity are also discussed in Comoving and proper distances#Uses of the proper distance). The current distance to this cosmological event horizon is about 16 billion light-years, meaning that a signal from an event happening at present would eventually be able to reach us in the future if the event was less than 16 billion light-years away, but the signal would never reach us if the event was more than 16 billion light-years away.[28]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light#Universal_expansion

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How can the universe expand faster than light travels?
[...]
A key feature of this expansion is how uniform it is.
[...]
It means that if you look at a galaxy 1 megaparsec away, it will appear to be receding away from us at 68 km/s. If you look at a galaxy 2 megaparsec away, it recedes at 136 km/s. Three megaparsec away? You got it! 204 km/s. And on and on: for every megaparsec, you can add 68 km/s to the velocity of the far-away galaxy.
https://www.space.com/33306-how-does-the-universe-expand-faster-than-light.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble%27s_law

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Using a relatively new and potentially more precise technique for measuring cosmic distances, which employs the average stellar brightness within giant elliptical galaxies as a rung on the distance ladder, astronomers calculate a rate — 73.3 kilometers per second per megaparsec, give or take 2.5 km/sec/Mpc — that lies in the middle of three other good estimates, including the gold standard estimate from Type Ia supernovae. This means that for every megaparsec — 3.3 million light years, or 3 billion trillion kilometers — from Earth, the universe is expanding an extra 73.3 ±2.5 kilometers per second. The average from the three other techniques is 73.5 ±1.4 km/sec/Mpc.
https://news.berkeley.edu/2021/03/08/how-fast-is-the-universe-expanding-galaxies-provide-one-answer/

The universe is estimated to have a radius of 45.7 billion light years, so we are at least safe from ~96% of the universe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe


The real question is, when will we reach the point where cosmological horizon is so small that space colonization is no longer possible? If random Wikipedia quotations can be trusted, it could take between 100 billion to 1 trillion (100,000,000,000 - 1,000,000,000,000) years from now for the Local Group of galaxies to be inescapable. The Local Group is comprised of the Milk Way, Andromeda Galaxy, and their smaller satellite galaxies. It has a radius of 5 million light years. (Remember, currently space colonists can travel a maximum of 16 _billion_ light years).

...For perspective, Earth is estimated to be 4.5 billion years old, life formed by at least 3.7 billion years ago, ancestors of mammals have existed for ~250-200 million years, and primates around 85-55 million. "Modern humans" have been around for only ~160,000 years. There were 156 years between the theory of evolution being introduced and the first gene-edited human (2015). There were 66 years between the first flight and first humans on the Moon. It's taken 76 years from the invention of the transistor to arrive at the cusp of sentient machines. What will happen in the next 100 billion years?

...The universe itself is estimated to only be ~13.8 billion years old.

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Coalescence of Local Group and galaxies outside the Local Supercluster are no longer accessible

The galaxies in the Local Group, the cluster of galaxies which includes the Milky Way and the Andromeda Galaxy, are gravitationally bound to each other. It is expected that between 10^11 (100 billion) and 10^12 (1 trillion) years from now, their orbits will decay and the entire Local Group will merge into one large galaxy.[5]

Assuming that dark energy continues to make the universe expand at an accelerating rate, in about 150 billion years all galaxies outside the Local Supercluster will pass behind the cosmological horizon. It will then be impossible for events in the Local Supercluster to affect other galaxies. Similarly, it will be impossible for events after 150 billion years, as seen by observers in distant galaxies, to affect events in the Local Supercluster.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe#Coalescence_of_Local_Group_and_galaxies_outside_the_Local_Supercluster_are_no_longer_accessible

The Sun will turn into a red giant star approximately 5 billion years from now, engulfing Earth or at least rendering it uninhabitable.

However, we may have to battle Earth-originating-space-colonists and non-Earth-originating Yahwehists for 95 billion more years after that occurs.


To make things more depressing, that is only the amount of time before inter-galactic colonization originating from our region of the universe becomes impossible. Intra-galactic colonization within the merged Local Group, within solar systems, and within individual planets will still be able to occur.

The physical/chemical reactions needed to support life will only completely cease with the heat death of the universe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

It seems estimates of when the heat death will occur are around ~10^100 years from now.

That is 10,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000,​000 years from now.


More realistically, however, the chemical energy needed to sustain life will likely be unachievable within half or a quarter of this time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe#Possible_ionization_of_matter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe#Future_with_proton_decay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe#Future_without_proton_decay

Even more realistically, I think a reasonable assumption is that the conditions to support complex life will be unlikely to exist within 1/7th of the time, i.e. 10^15 (1 quadrillion) years from now. However, who knows what kind of technology could be invented by then to permanently prolong living conditions of engineered machines/lifeforms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe#Planets_fall_or_are_flung_from_orbits_by_a_close_encounter_with_another_star


Small matters seem so trivial with all this at stake.