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Posted by: speedarian
« on: March 14, 2024, 05:26:37 pm »

I didn't want to create a separate topic for this, why call it 'boromir syndrome'? It ties the phrase to a fantasy franchise not everyone is aware of when the phrase should be universal.
I would call it 'adaptation syndrome' as it is tied to naturalism.
Posted by: rp
« on: February 20, 2023, 11:21:08 pm »

"I am not sure if we are talking about the same discussion, but I think what they meant was that tribalism cannot be defeated by non-tribalism. This is factually true:"
Yes. This is the attitude I meant to refer to.

"Tribalism is inevitable" is not a red-pill statement since it is itself delusional, ignoring the possibility of folkism."
I agree. Now that I think of it I have not seen any rightists express this attitude.
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: February 20, 2023, 11:12:01 pm »

"they claimed "tribalism is inevitable"."

I am not sure if we are talking about the same discussion, but I think what they meant was that tribalism cannot be defeated by non-tribalism. This is factually true:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/ethnotribalism-the-computer-simulation/

It takes anti-tribalism (a.k.a. folkism) to defeat tribalism. But they deliberately ignored this even after I presented it to them.

"would you agree that we must also seek to define defeatism and highlight its contrast to positivity, in order to eschew the former attitude?"

Sure, as I was doing here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/question-about-rational-thinking/msg17674/#msg17674

Quote
If I believe it is impossible, I will not work towards it.
If I believe it is inevitable, I will also not work towards it.
Only if I believe it is possible but not inevitable will I work towards it.

"would you agree that the "tribalism is inevitable" is a "red-pill" statement"

"Tribalism will always defeat non-tribalism" is a red-pill statement (strictly original Matrix sense) compared to "tribalism will be defeated by non-tribalism" since it is less delusional. "Tribalism in inevitable" is itself delusional, however, ignoring the possibility of folkism.

"since you yourself have referred to such cases as "red-pill junkies"?"

Red Pill junkies refer those who think that just because they have broken through the first level of delusion, they have already reached the truth. For example:

http://aryanism.net/blog/aryan-sanctuary/the-last-word-on-marxism/

Quote
The most important thing to remember is that Hitler, who should indeed be remembered  for his fight against Marxism, was fighting against the real Marxism as is accurately depicted by the above article, not what Red Pill junkies erroneously call “Marxism” today. It is precisely those useful idiots who imagine that Hitler was fighting against Red-Pill-hallucinatory ”Marxism” who necessarily presume that Hitler’s ideology was the same as neo-Nazism. On the other hand, it is those who understand that Hitler was fighting against the real Marxism who have an easier time beginning to understand authentic National Socialism.
Posted by: rp
« on: February 20, 2023, 10:44:44 pm »

"Why do you keep misrepresenting Boromir Syndrome? I only recently corrected you here:"
I remembered you arguing with some Gentiles in the comments of Aryanism.net, where they claimed "tribalism is inevitable". They also said that the "jews are trying to mongrelize us". The part about tribalism being inevitable seemed to suggest to me that they were adopting rightists values out of the belief that leftist values were unattainable. But looking at your definition of Boromir Syndrome, while those Gentiles may be Boromir Syndrome infected, I agree that the belief in question, namely "tribalism is inevitable", is not necessarily a BS one.

"Also, in general, I do not recommend using the pill terminology. We should distinguish between positivity and optimism, and that's it."
Ok, but I should add that I did not create those pill definitions myself, but am reusing what rightists created, merely adopting it for leftism. I found the terminology to be very apt to describe the various attitudes I was witnessing. But would you agree that we must also seek to define defeatism and highlight its contrast to positivity, in order to eschew the former attitude? And lastly, would you agree that the "tribalism is inevitable" is a "red-pill" statement, since you yourself have referred to such cases as "red-pill junkies"?

EDIT: "This describes Saruman, not Boromir:"
I agree. In the previous paragraph I conceded that the attitude was not Boromir Syndome.
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: February 20, 2023, 10:27:33 pm »

Why do you keep misrepresenting Boromir Syndrome? I only recently corrected you here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/indian-attitudes/msg17760/#msg17760

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/indian-attitudes/msg17765/#msg17765

"Belief that goal is unachievable, and that therefore we have to adopt the enemy's values."

This describes Saruman, not Boromir:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBMiyEzOJmI

Also, to answer your general question, I do not recommend using the pill terminology. We should distinguish between positivity and optimism, and that's it.

Posted by: rp
« on: February 20, 2023, 10:18:39 pm »

Positivity - Highlighting something positive that has happened, gives you hope in the sense that your goal is achievable, but stresses that the positive event was a result of action, and hence we should not give up on our actions until we achieve the goal ("Whitepill")
Optimism - Belief that goal is achievable, but that no action needs to be taken since the future is already assured("Bluepill")
Defeatism- Belief that goal is unachievable and is not even worth trying ("Blackpill")
Boromir Syndrome - Belief that goal is unachievable, and that therefore we have to adopt the enemy's values. ("Redpill")

What do you guys think?