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Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: April 06, 2024, 01:38:13 am »

"This too would include some modern pharmaceuticals"

Not for long if we discontinue manufacturing them, which is what I am advocating.

"Would we too ditch the rocks that were used by cavemen to barbarically crush open the skulls of animals for hunting purposes?"

Rocks are matter. SSRIs are designs. For example:



What I want to get rid of is not the particular atoms that have been used to make fluoxetine, but the design pictured above (irrespective of which atoms of the ingredient elements are used to produce physical copies of it), which did not exist in the world prior until recently, and which would never have existed in absence of Western civilization.

See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/academic-decolonization/msg16015/#msg16015

"how would you propose to distinguish between explicitly western medicine/western-inspired one and non-western one?"

Western:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry#History

Quote
German dye manufacturers had perfected the purification of individual organic compounds from tar and other mineral sources and had also established rudimentary methods in organic chemical synthesis.[5] The development of synthetic chemical methods allowed scientists to systematically vary the structure of chemical substances

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_synthesis

Quote
Organic synthesis is an important chemical process that is integral to many scientific fields. Examples of fields beyond chemistry that require organic synthesis include the medical industry, pharmaceutical industry, and many more. Organic processes allow for the industrial-scale creation of pharmaceutical products.

"how would you judge the NS german medical industry"

"That a fatty substance extracted from coal has the same value as olive-oil, that l don't believe at all !" - Adolf Hitler

This anti-organic-synthesis quote could have been a starting point for de-Westernizing medicine had National Socialist Germany won WWII.
Posted by: Questioning
« on: April 06, 2024, 12:18:44 am »

Quote from: Questioning on April 05, 2024, 11:59:23 pm
Quote from: 90sRetroFan on April 05, 2024, 11:30:33 pm
"So what should one do otherwise?"

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/re-psychological-decolonization/msg2284/#msg2284 (section on zoopharmacognosy)

"are we to discard all of these medicines that have had the misfortune of being used in such a way too?"

Yes.

Thanks, but is this not sort of what i proposed too? Discarding what "we" have learnt about these things by way of crueldom in favor of our intuition when it comes to self-medicating disagreeable states? This too would include some modern pharmaceuticals, of which germany was a pioneer during the second world war.
Would we too ditch the rocks that were used by cavemen to barbarically crush open the skulls of animals for hunting purposes?
Add to that, how would you propose to distinguish between explicitly western medicine/western-inspired one and non-western one? To leave one without any blame feels superficial when it is traditional (relative to what exactly?) medical systems in many non-western countries that gave rise to large amounts of animal exploitation due to belief that their essences among others could cure various illnesses, and then i too must ask, how would you judge the NS german medical industry- Do you view it as non-western?
Sorry for all these questions, perhaps i am ignorant
Posted by: Questioning
« on: April 05, 2024, 11:59:23 pm »

Quote from: 90sRetroFan on April 05, 2024, 11:30:33 pm
"So what should one do otherwise?"

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/re-psychological-decolonization/msg2284/#msg2284 (section on zoopharmacognosy)

"are we to discard all of these medicines that have had the misfortune of being used in such a way too?"

Yes.

Thanks, but is this not sort of what i proposed too? Discarding what "we" have learnt about these things by way of crueldom in favor of our intuition when it comes to self-medicating disagreeable states? This too would include some modern pharmaceuticals, of which germany was a pioneer during the second world war.
Would we too ditch the rocks that were used by cavemen to barbarically crush open the skulls of animals for hunting purposes?
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: April 05, 2024, 11:30:33 pm »

"So what should one do otherwise?"

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/re-psychological-decolonization/msg2284/#msg2284 (section on zoopharmacognosy)

"are we to discard all of these medicines that have had the misfortune of being used in such a way too?"

Yes.
Posted by: Questioning
« on: April 05, 2024, 11:03:37 pm »

Quote from: 90sRetroFan on April 02, 2024, 09:20:19 pm
An individual should be allowed to take whatever medication they choose, so long as its development involved no initiated violence.

Has the development of SSRIs involved initiated violence? Of course it has!

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9084057/

https://www.peta.org/blog/antidepressant-drug-company-sage-therapeutics-ends-forced-swim-test/

If someone knows about the forced swim test but nevertheless remains willing to take SSRIs, they are by definition not an Aryanist.

So what should one do otherwise? Ancient societies have practiced medicine for as long as they were around, it was only much later that westerners began building empiric data on those same medicines and their effects through standardized animal experiements, are we to discard all of these medicines that have had the misfortune of being used in such a way too? A medication by itself doesn't hurt animals, "humans" do, the same way "humans" use weaponry to hunt
Posted by: Questioning
« on: April 05, 2024, 10:52:04 pm »

Quote from: Questioning on April 05, 2024, 09:44:04 pm
As far as i remember the concept of "endogenous depression" was coined in NS germany, either by Emil Kraepelin or Julius Hallervorden, i haven't yet found the paper that it was stated in but if i do i shall add it do https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_eponyms_with_Nazi_associations

It is basically described as a form of depression not influenced by external factors, trauma, or environment but a persistent one that has to do with an inborn "error" of brain metabolism or something of that sort, in line with thinking of this movement i would concede that any knowledge "we" obtained through immoral means (animal experiments etc) are to be trashed, instead, if you want to build up a library of responses you have to certain medicines the only way to do this is by testing it on yourself, i know that the irreversible MAOIs are the treatment of choice for this.
Correction: it was this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Schneider who went about coining it as its seperate entity, building on Kraepelin work.
Posted by: Questioning
« on: April 05, 2024, 09:44:04 pm »

As far as i remember the concept of "endogenous depression" was coined in NS germany, either by Emil Kraepelin or Julius Hallervorden, i haven't yet found the paper that it was stated in but if i do i shall add it do https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_eponyms_with_Nazi_associations

It is basically described as a form of depression not influenced by external factors, trauma, or environment but a persistent one that has to do with an inborn "error" of brain metabolism or something of that sort, in line with thinking of this movement i would concede that any knowledge "we" obtained through immoral means (animal experiments etc) are to be trashed, instead, if you want to build up a library of responses you have to certain medicines the only way to do this is by testing it on yourself, i know that the irreversible MAOIs are the treatment of choice for this.
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: April 02, 2024, 09:20:19 pm »

An individual should be allowed to take whatever medication they choose, so long as its development involved no initiated violence.

Has the development of SSRIs involved initiated violence? Of course it has!

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9084057/

https://www.peta.org/blog/antidepressant-drug-company-sage-therapeutics-ends-forced-swim-test/

"isn’t it strategically advantageous to help keep such people alive, albeit with a western invention, if the person in question is an Aryanist?"

If someone knows about the forced swim test but nevertheless remains willing to take SSRIs, they are by definition not an Aryanist.

"Do you not think that it’s possible for one person in a pair of qualitatively identical Aryans to feel significantly more depression or anxiety than the other?"

If they are identical, then logically one would only feel more depression/anxiety than another if they were placed in different circumstances. If in identical circumstances one feels more depression/anxiety than another, theyn logically they cannot be identical. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at.
Posted by: SirGalahad
« on: April 02, 2024, 07:05:33 pm »

I do think that SSRIs are vastly over-prescribed, and that many of the people who have taken or are currently taking SSRIs, are simply reacting to life under western civilization, and in the material world more broadly (my sister takes an SSRI for anxiety, and it wasn’t until she started studying 24/7 in medical school that she had to have her dosage increased even higher than what it already was. Go figure). But I also find it believable that there’s a biological component that makes certain people more unlucky than others with respect to how much and how often they feel anxiety or depression, and that such people would feel that crippling depression and anxiety in ANY civilization, rather than just western civilization specifically.

Do you not think that it’s possible for one person in a pair of qualitatively identical Aryans to feel significantly more depression or anxiety than the other? Also, some people experience such intense depression and/or anxiety, that they can’t otherwise function without SSRIs, and would surely kill themselves to escape the torture. Ideally, nobody would be born in the material world, and such an invention wouldn’t be needed. But in the meantime, isn’t it strategically advantageous to help keep such people alive, albeit with a western invention, if the person in question is an Aryanist?
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: April 02, 2024, 06:17:38 pm »

"For people with chronic anxiety or depression, how do you think that they should deal with their condition? SSRIs are obviously a western invention"

Radical medical decolonization involves not merely rejecting Western medical treatments, but more importantly rejecting Western medical diagnoses. Besides SSRIs being a Western invention, "chronic anxiety" and "depression" as medical conditions are also Western abstractions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder

Quote
The Ancient Greek physician Hippocrates described a syndrome of melancholia (μελαγχολία, melankholía) as a distinct disease with particular mental and physical symptoms; he characterized all "fears and despondencies, if they last a long time" as being symptomatic of the ailment.[322]
...
It was used in 1665 in English author Richard Baker's Chronicle to refer to someone having "a great depression of spirit", and by English author Samuel Johnson in a similar sense in 1753.[325] The term also came into use in physiology and economics. An early usage referring to a psychiatric symptom was by French psychiatrist Louis Delasiauve in 1856, and by the 1860s it was appearing in medical dictionaries to refer to a physiological and metaphorical lowering of emotional function.[326]

which are based on the assumption that they are disorders, which in turn is based on a Western assumption of what "normal" looks like (basically well-adjusted to life in Western civilization). Our position, in contrast, is that being anxious and/or depressed in response to life in Western civilization are valid responses! In our view, it is if anything those who are well-adjusted to life in Western civilization who are the problem.

Consider chickens in a Western egg factory, whose behaviour surely satisfy the symptomatic conditions for anxiety/depression. Do you think the best way to help the chickens is to give them SSRIs or to get them out of the factory conditions?

Look at the Hippocratic definition again:

Quote
all "fears and despondencies, if they last a long time" as being symptomatic of the ailment.

In a non-Western view, this would simply be:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du%E1%B8%A5kha

Quote
Duḥkha (/ˈduːkə/)(Sanskrit; Pali: dukkha), 'unease', "standing unstable," commonly translated as "suffering", "pain", or "unhappiness", is an important concept in Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism. Its meaning depends on the context, and may refer more specifically to the "unsatisfactoriness" or "unease" of mundane life
...
Duḥkha is one of the three marks of existence

But instead of identifying samsara as the problem, Hippocrates defines "melancholia" as the problem, in other words blaming the victim.
Posted by: SirGalahad
« on: April 02, 2024, 04:52:19 pm »

@90sRetroFan For people with chronic anxiety or depression, how do you think that they should deal with their condition? SSRIs are obviously a western invention, but if it helps someone self-preserve long enough to aid us in our mission, do you think it’s adequate for the time being? I’m sure that certain Buddhist and other ascetic practices can help with depression or anxiety to a certain extent, but if we’re working under the assumption that certain people deal with a form of chronic depression or anxiety that they possess on a biological level and other people simply do NOT possess, then such practices might not be enough