Post reply

Warning - while you were reading 21 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Name:
Email:
Subject:
Message icon:

Verification:

shortcuts: hit alt+s to submit/post or alt+p to preview


Topic Summary

Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: September 19, 2023, 04:23:01 pm »

I have repeatedly explained that good US-China relations depend on identifying common historical enemies of both countries. I have also repeatedly stated who those enemies are:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/china-and-united-states-relations/msg14900/?topicseen#msg14900

Quote
This became an especially important concern for the People's Republic of China after the Sino-Soviet border conflict of 1969. The PRC was diplomatically isolated and the leadership came to believe that improved relations with the United States would be a useful counterbalance to the Soviet threat.

Quote
Both China and the United States backed combatants in Africa against Soviet and Cuban-supported movements.

Quote
US-China military cooperation began in 1979; American arms sales to China were initiated, and in 1981 it was revealed that a joint US-China listening post had been operated in Xinjiang, near the Soviet border.

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/china-and-united-states-relations/msg11575/?topicseen#msg11575

Quote
"Fifty years ago, the USSR was a common threat that brought us together.

or even:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/china-and-united-states-relations/msg2676/?topicseen#msg2676

Quote
The correct approach, of course, is for the US to take this opportunity to openly side with China against Australia. If the US were willing to do this, I guarantee it could win over China to a new vision of cooperation.

But will Biden do this? Of course not. Biden is still stuck in the False Left mentality that the US is less close to China, a fellow former victim of colonization by two of the same colonial powers:

1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_colonization_of_the_Americas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Hong_Kong

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Weihaiwei

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concessions_in_Tianjin#British_concession_(1860%E2%80%931943)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiujiang#History

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhenjiang#History

etc.

2)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_colonization_of_the_Americas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_French_Concession

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concessions_in_Tianjin#French_concession

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhouwan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hankou#Foreign_concessions_period

etc.

than to Australia, a country whose head of state is the same as that of America's main former colonizer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II

and whose flag:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Australia

includes the very same colonialist insignia that America literally fought its Revolutionary War to remove from American soil FFS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War

Finally, Xi shows signs of understanding my approach! But here is his version of it (warning: you cannot make this **** up):

https://www.yahoo.com/news/xi-says-china-us-must-053929256.html

Quote
Xi said the people of China and the United States had shared the same enemy in their fight against Japan



Eurocentrist Xi's Eurocentric First Eurocentric Law of Eurocentrism: if China and the US must have a common enemy, it can only be a "non-white" country.
Posted by: rp
« on: September 17, 2023, 09:37:48 pm »

Quote
‘I don’t want to contain China,’ Biden says in Beijing’s backyard
...
And he repeated that phrase — again and again.

“I don’t want to contain China,” he said during a news conference in Hanoi shortly after elevating the U.S.-Vietnam relationship and palling around with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. “We’re not trying to hurt China.”

Contrast with:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nikki-haley-says-she-views-151214599.html

Quote
Nikki Haley says she views China ‘as an enemy’ in pointed rebuke

Is China paying attention to the difference between Red and Blue attitudes?

India should also be given credit for the improvement IMO. PM Modi, while voicing concerns about the border dispute, has not acquiesced to the demands of some Westerners in the U.S. who want him to "take on" China. But he has also maintained good relations with Biden. This signals to the U.S. that they cannot rely on India as an anti-China "partner", and hence must rely on themselves alone to take on China. But they recognize this is unfeasible so they have come around to admitting that they do not want to take on China after all.
Posted by: Relations
« on: September 17, 2023, 07:03:42 pm »

US, Chinese officials secretly meet in Malta | NewsNation Prime
Quote
The White House said National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan and Chinese envoy Wang Yi had “candid, substantive and constructive discussions” over the past two days on the Mediterranean island nation of Malta. The Biden administration says the meeting was intended to “responsibly maintain the relationship” with China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqYC2SWD48w
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: September 10, 2023, 08:04:11 pm »

Quote
‘I don’t want to contain China,’ Biden says in Beijing’s backyard
...
And he repeated that phrase — again and again.

“I don’t want to contain China,” he said during a news conference in Hanoi shortly after elevating the U.S.-Vietnam relationship and palling around with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. “We’re not trying to hurt China.”

Contrast with:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nikki-haley-says-she-views-151214599.html

Quote
Nikki Haley says she views China ‘as an enemy’ in pointed rebuke

Is China paying attention to the difference between Red and Blue attitudes?
Posted by: rp
« on: September 10, 2023, 07:20:38 pm »

Posted by: WaterSupply
« on: August 23, 2023, 01:12:25 pm »

BRICS: A counterweight to western-led G7 group of leading democracies? | DW News
Quote
Leaders of the BRICS group of nations are meeting in Johannesburg. Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa are home to 40 percent of the world's population. President Putin is not there, though. Russia is being represented by foreign minister Sergey Lavrov, since Mr. Putin is subject to an international arrest warrant for war crimes related to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
BRICS leaders will discuss a possible expansion of the five-nation bloc. Some observers believe China is keen to develop a global counterweight to the western-led G7 group of leading democracies.

00:00 Putin not at BRICS summit due to Ukraine war
01:30 China pushes for BRICS expansion

Ali Wyne is a senior analyst, focusing on US-China relations for Eurasia Group's Global Macro-Geopolitics practice. Professor Oliver Stunkel is a political analyst at the School of International Relations in São Paulo, Brazil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvxImAkVpvg

Gravitas: Biden's Charm Offensive: US Courts India Amid China's BRICS Power Play
Quote
The upcoming G20 New Delhi Summit assumes extraordinary significance as leaders from across the world converge in the midst of shifting power dynamics, notably amid a new Cold War between China and the USA. India, emerging as a powerhouse, takes center stage in this high-stakes international gathering. U.S. President Joe Biden, who will visit India next month to take part in the summit, has called India his "most important country in the world." Molly Gambhir tells you more

#modi #biden #xijinping #gravitas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a84vwhYg4Qc

Putin speaks to BRICS group in video message on 2nd meeting day | DW News
Quote
Leaders of the BRICS group of nations are into their second day of meetings in Johannesburg. They're using the summit to demand changes to international institutions.

The heads of government of Brazil, China, South Africa and India, as well as Russia's foreign minister, are talking about expanding the bloc and using a currency other than the US dollar, to reduce western economic dominance. The group has set itself the goal of increasing the political weight of countries from the global south in international affairs.

Russian President Vladimir Putin is not present in Johannesburg but he is taking part in the summit by video link. In an address to the delegates, he said Russia wants to end the war that has been "unleashed by the West and its satellites in Ukraine".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QY6U64wjZE
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: August 23, 2023, 12:36:25 pm »

Xie keeps trying:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/same-boat-chinese-envoy-xie-093000294.html

Quote
Chinese ambassador to the United States Xie Feng on Tuesday highlighted the need to "overcome difficulties together in the same boat" as he set the tone and agenda for US Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo's official visit to China.

He demanded the US "pay high attention" to the Chinese stance on bilateral commercial issues and raised hopes that both sides could expand areas of cooperation and "shorten the negative list", according to an embassy readout.
...
Xie told Raimondo that "the world today is full of changes and chaos while the world economy faces a weak recovery and unpredictable crises in multiple aspects".

"As China and the US belong to the same planet and share the same blue sky, we are in the same boat and are not immune [to the situation]. We should not harm each other for the benefit of one side but should overcome difficulties together,"

A picture of the first difficulty that China and the US should overcome together:



As long as Xie does not explicitly include this proposition, his efforts are unlikely to yield significant results.
Posted by: Zhang Caizhi
« on: August 16, 2023, 10:51:16 pm »

Quote
Once their influences fade

That's why Xi is trying to stay if it means lifetime like Brezhnev. He has already promoted his loyalists and have Chinese children learn on his thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zhijiang_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping_Thought

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1232364.shtml

Quote
The Chinese Ministry of Education (MOE) issued on Tuesday a guiding document to incorporate Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era into the curriculum.

Incorporating Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era into the curriculum is significant in helping teenagers establish Marxist beliefs and strengthen confidence in the path, theory, system and culture of socialism with Chinese characteristics, according to the guiding document.

The guiding document requires that Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era be integrated into the curriculum covering basic, vocational and higher education, and be integrated with various subjects, said Han Zhen, a member of the National Textbook Committee, media reported.

Primary schools will focus on cultivating love for the country, the Communist Party of China, and socialism. In middle schools, the focus will be on a combination of perceptual experience and knowledge study, to help students form basic political judgments and opinions. In college, there will be more emphasis on the establishment of theoretical thinking.

Studying Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era is the primary political task of the Communist Party of China and of the country, read a statement published on the MOE website on Tuesday. To cultivate the builders and successors of socialism with an all-round moral, intellectual, physical and aesthetic grounding and a hard-working spirit, we must arm students' minds with Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era, said the statement.

The teaching materials must grasp the essence of Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era, systematically summarize its content, and clarify the scope of learning, read the statement. Also formulated are guidelines on labor education for students to cultivate their hard-working spirit, and on education of national security.

Tian Huisheng, a ministry official, said that the guidelines require continuous education of these major thematic contents among all students.

The ministry is working on the inclusion of other major thematic contents, such as Party leadership, national defense education, education on life safety and health, among others, Tian added.
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: August 16, 2023, 03:37:43 pm »

https://us.yahoo.com/finance/news/generation-leaders-may-best-hope-093000285.html

Quote
New generation of leaders may be best hope for US-China relations, says ex-Obama adviser
...
But Ryan Hass, now an analyst at the Washington-based Brookings Institution, said that will "perhaps not [happen] during the Xi Jinping era".

He told a podcast released by his think tank on Monday that imagining a better future for the US-China relationship is hard, but "Xi Jinping is mortal. He is not going to be in control of China forever. And our approach toward China needs to account for this".

I agree. And now is not too early to start signalling towards this expectation from both sides.

While we have a generally low opinion of Obama, recall the comparatively better relations even during the Obama era (which were so taken for granted back then that we did not think Obama deserved special credit for it (I still don't) because we assumed literally anyone would do the same..... until Trump came along and proved otherwise):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93China_Strategic_and_Economic_Dialogue

Quote
The U.S.–China Strategic and Economic Dialogue (S&ED) (simplified Chinese: 中美战略与经济对话; traditional Chinese: 中美戰略與經濟對話; pinyin: Zhōng Měi zhànlüè yǔ jīngjì duìhuà) was a high-level dialogue for the United States and China to discuss a wide range of regional and global strategic and economic issues between both countries. The establishment of the S&ED was announced on April 1, 2009, by U.S. President Barack Obama and Chinese President Hu Jintao. The upgraded mechanism replaced the former Senior Dialogue and Strategic Economic Dialogue started under the George W. Bush administration.[1]: 288  High-level representatives of both countries and their delegations will met annually at capitals alternating between the two countries.[2][3]

The S&ED was renamed the Comprehensive Economic Dialogue in June 2017. The Trump administration terminated the dialogue that year.
...
Obama said in his speech, "The relationship between the United States and China will shape the 21st century, which makes it as important as any bilateral relationship in the world. That really must underpin our partnership. That is the responsibility that together we bear."[18]

On the other side, we should also not forget Hu's superiority (even though again back then we considered him at best mediocre (I still do) because again he was merely doing what was utterly obvious):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Jintao#Foreign_policy

Quote
Throughout Hu's tenure, China's influence in Africa, Latin America, and other developing regions increased.[47] He sought to develop China's relationship with Japan, which he visited in 2008.[48] He downgraded relations with Russia because of unfulfilled deals.[49]

compared to Xi (who showed us how much lower it was possible to go):

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/putin-and-xi-jinping-share-video-call-as-they-announce-extension-to-20-year-frie/

The point is that Trump and Xi are not (and should never be thought of as) valid representatives of the US and China respectively. Once their influences fade, there is no reason why the US-China relationship cannot get back on track.

Best comment:

Quote
New gen, he means Omar Rashidas and more to come.

In other words, Americans as opposed to Western occupiers.
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: August 04, 2023, 06:04:10 pm »

Continuing from:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/china-and-united-states-relations/msg21075/#msg21075

is Granholm an example of those whom Xie was talking about?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/energy-sec-granholm-secretly-consulted-062746549.html

Quote
Energy Sec Granholm secretly consulted top CCP energy official before SPR releases
...
Granholm's previously-undisclosed talks with China National Energy Administration Chairman Zhang Jianhua — revealed in internal Energy Department calendars obtained by Americans for Public Trust (APT) and shared with Fox News Digital — reveal that the Biden administration likely discussed its plans to release oil from the SPR with China before its public announcement.

According to the calendars, Granholm spoke in one-on-one conversations with Jianhua, who is a longstanding senior member of the Chinese Communist Party, on Nov. 19, 2021, and two days later on Nov. 21, 2021. Then, on Nov. 23, 2021, the White House announced a release of 50 million barrels of oil from the SPR, the largest release of its kind in U.S. history at the time.

"Secretary Granholm's multiple closed-door meetings with a CCP-connected energy official raise serious questions about the level of Chinese influence on the Biden administration’s energy agenda," APT Executive Director Caitlin Sutherland told Fox News Digital.

"Instead of focusing on creating real energy independence for America, Granholm has been too busy parroting Chinese energy propaganda and insisting ‘we can all learn from what China is doing,’" Sutherland continued.

Previous Granholm coverage:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/china-and-united-states-relations/msg18380/#msg18380
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: July 27, 2023, 07:46:10 pm »

https://www.yahoo.com/news/half-poll-see-china-biggest-150037372.html

Quote
Half of Americans named China as the largest threat to the U.S. both economically and for national security, according to a Pew Research Center survey released Thursday.

In the open-ended question, only two nations surpassed 5 percent of responses: China at 50 percent and Russia with 17 percent.
...
While both Democrats and Republicans named China as the U.S.’s biggest threat in the Pew survey, Republicans were significantly more likely to do so. Republicans were also much less likely to answer Russia than Democrats.

That goes along with some Republicans’ reluctance to follow the Biden administration’s support for Ukraine against Russia’s invasion.

As I keep saying, Blue dislike of China is mainly due to China's perceived support of Russia. All China has to do is turn on Russia and Blue dislike of China will evaporate (while Red dislike of China will increase, thereby turning attitude towards China into a partisan issue, which is our objective). But so long as China refuses to turn on Russia, dislike of China will continue to appear to be a unifying issue in the US despite the Red and Blue camps actually disliking China for totally different reasons.

Woke comments:

Quote
The results simply reaffirmed the fact that the GOP is still the more racist party. Russians are preferred by Republicans over the yellow Chinese.

Quote
gee..  i wonder if it is due to the 24/7 demonization of China and the Chinese in general?  btw, the "global" poll is 24 countries, mainly in europe, america, australia..you know, the usual suspects..

Quote
I'm certain most voters have the same hue... if you know what I mean. Those who suffer from incurable yellow peril syndrome. 🙄😁

Demographic Blueshift will continue. What Reds think will matter less and less. China's priority should be to win over Blues who are the future of the US. To do so, it must turn on Russia now. If Russia is defeated without China being part of the coalition which defeated it, China will always be remembered as the country which supported Russia, and thus be disliked by Blues into the foreseeable future.

As far as I can tell, China has not yet understood this.
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: July 23, 2023, 03:11:14 am »

I like this positive attitude:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinese-ambassador-says-those-wanting-145937829.html

Quote
China’s ambassador to the U.S. suggested Thursday that those in Washington who support closer ties with Beijing are “hiding in the darkness” because American “political correctness” makes them reluctant to come forward.

Xie Feng, who took up his post as ambassador in late May amid heightened tensions between the two superpowers, said at the Aspen Security Forum that he has found the “political correctness” of American society to be “a little bit surprising.”

“I think there are still a large number of supporters for this relationship, but they seem to be under pressure,” Xie said. “They seem to be reticent under the recent chilling effect, and they tend to restrain from making their views out under the so-called anti-China chorus.”

“There are some hiding in the darkness, afraid of being crushed. So one of my jobs here, I think, is to seek them out,” he added. “I am one, but we are many. So I hope that all of you will join hands with me to seek them out and to contribute together to this relationship.”

My advice to Xie is that the Blue side is the only side where he will find those whom he describes, and that is where he should be exclusively doing his seeking. If he does any seeking on the Red side, not only will he find nothing, but also those hidden on the Blue side will change their minds and thus he will lose them as well. Does he understand this?
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: June 29, 2023, 11:19:05 pm »

As we knew all along:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinese-spy-balloon-did-not-201443679.html

Quote
Chinese spy balloon did not gather data over US: Pentagon

The Chinese spy balloon shot down by a US fighter jet over the Atlantic in February did not collect intelligence as it flew across the United States, the Pentagon said Thursday.

"It's been our assessment now that it did not collect while it was transiting the United States or overflying the United States," said Pentagon spokesman Pat Ryder.

So why even keep calling it a "spy balloon"?

Woke comments:

Quote
everyone has known all along this is not a spy balloon. Only fool the fools here

Quote
That's because it was a weather balloon that was blown off course, just like China said.  The US has too much egg on its face to admit it.

Quote
And we spent millions to shoot down an ordinary balloon, before seeking confirmation?

Quote
so its a weather balloon?? so china is telling the truth...like always...and yanks spend like what half a million to shoot a 50 dollars balloon? my goodness no wonder their debt is 35 Trillion and counting

Quote
They usually say such things after it's pretty much left the public mind and no one is paying attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlqT5zctTyQ
Posted by: guest98
« on: June 22, 2023, 02:26:15 pm »

"why do Westerners have such problem with authority unless it's their own tribe in power?"

Because they are homo hubris.
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: June 21, 2023, 04:46:30 pm »

"Xi should have taken it as a compliment"

As I have said before, every time Eurocentrist Xi acts like "dictator" is a negative term, he is in effect saying that he is ashamed of every emperor in Chinese history, and of Chinese civilization as a whole for (unlike Western civilization) never questioning autocracy. Deep down, he probably is!