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Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: November 23, 2023, 06:56:53 pm »

Mainstream journalism finally acknowledges it:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/far-left-hatred-jews-today-090057215.html

Quote
Far-left hatred of Jews today echoes the socialism and antisemitism of Hitler in the 1930s
...
far-left groups flooded college campuses recently accusing Jewish people of global conspiracies — and then demanding that Israel be destroyed.

The National Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP), for example — a network of pro-Palestinian student groups — wrote in its "Day of Resistance Toolkit" that "the forces of Zionism engage in media campaigns which attack our people." It calls for "resistance from all sides," as it shared on campuses nationwide in October.

The toolkit demands the "decolonization" of Israel with "confrontation by any means necessary."
...
The group argues that the United States and Canada are illegitimate colonizing powers — just as the group believes Israel is as well.

It turns out these toxic tenets of socialism and antisemitism have very deep roots — roots planted by the notorious National Socialist German Workers Party in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s. This far-left hate group is known to most people today as Adolf Hitler’s Nazi Party.

The National Socialists seized total control of Germany by spewing both rage against capitalism and rage against Jews.
...
The party's very public war on "bourgeois" capitalism and private enterprise, however, today appears to be forgotten, ignored or rewritten by some academics and leftists who deny Hitler's National Socialists were actually socialists.

Victor Davis Hanson, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, told Fox News Digital on this topic, "Nazi taxation and subsidies for most people were more or less purely socialist, as it professed."
...
here are five ways that far-left antisemitism in the public square appears to flow from the platform of the National Socialist German Workers Party — the Nazis — the original left-wing hate group, judging by both words and actions.

The National Socialist German Workers Party platform offered a wish list of collectivist economic ideas.

"We demand," the party's 25 Theses stated, "abolition of incomes unearned by work [investment income] … the ruthless confiscation of all war profits … nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations … profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises."

The National Socialists also promised, and delivered on, centralized control of education, media and information.
...
National Socialist doctrine also demanded and secured individual devotion to the state, ruled by one man — and the elimination of a legislative branch with authority to challenge the party leader.

"The National State must work untiringly to set all government … free from the principle of control by majorities," Hitler wrote in "Mein Kampf," all about a world with no democracy, no capitalism and no Jews.

The National Socialist German Workers Party wasted no time in savaging private enterprise when it seized control of Germany in 1934.
...
Many leftists and academics today claim that "right-wing" Nazis co-opted the word "socialist" and that Hitler’s National Socialism was different than the beneficent socialism they preach.
...
Hitler never wavered from his socialist identity. "An inexorable National Socialist and a fighter for my people," he thundered about himself in his last major radio address on Jan. 30, 1945, while vilifying Judaism and capitalism until the very end.
...
the far-left dictatorship has been recast in popular opinion as a right-wing hate group, even though that label is refuted by the party's own language, philosophy, platform, actions and self-identity.
...
Hitler’s rage against capitalism and Judaism stemmed from the belief that Jews controlled media and financial markets and profited from Germany’s defeat in World War I.
...
Hamas also echoes Hitler's National Socialist conspiracies of global Jewish dominance and war profiteering in its founding platform.

"With their money, [Jews] took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others," Hamas states in its 1988 charter.

Jews "were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources … They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state."
Posted by: antihellenistic
« on: August 31, 2023, 01:55:58 am »

National Socialist economy were autocratic socialist

Quote
Peter Temin wrote about this in Soviet and Nazi Economic Planning, stating:

Both governments reorganized industry into larger units, ostensibly to increase state control over economic activity. The Nazis reorganized industry into 13 administrative groups with a larger number of subgroups to create a private hierarchy for state control. The state could therefore direct a firm’s activities without acquiring direct ownership of enterprises. The pre-existing tendency to form cartels was encouraged to eliminate competition that would destabilize prices.

...

The Nazis, ironically, called this reorganization “privatization,” although the owners of these corporations were either removed from board positions and replaced by Nazi Party members or sold out and became Nazi Party members. ...

...

This German businessman also complained of “arbitrary government decisions concerning quantity, quality, and prices of foreign raw materials.” But businessmen were not the only members of the private sector who faced mass amounts of bureaucracy and control. The farmers faced it as well.

...

Farming price subsidies were also common in the Nazi Reich even before World War II broke out. The RNS was created to fix prices and create production controls in agriculture. In his book Hitler’s Beneficiaries, German historian Götz Aly describes the measures the German government took in the farming sector.

Götz states, “The prices producers were paid for milk and potatoes were raised by 25 to 35 percent in the course of the war.” These subsidies would cause shortages as early as August 1939, when meat and eggs rationing was imposed to keep the industry focused on grain production.

...

Because of this, people may reach the conclusion that prewar life was bad for the Jews, but beneficial for non-Jewish citizens. It is true that Jews suffered immensely, not only socially but also economically. At the start of 1933, there were an estimated hundred thousand Jewish businesses; by 1938, only 39,552 remained. In the same year, a capital levy was put on Jews; they needed to register all their assets with the local tax office, which placed a 20 percent and later a 25 percent capital levy on them.

But for ordinary non-Jewish citizens, life was also hard. Private sale negotiations were subject to official rules, these rules being set selling prices for whatever good someone had. If a dealer wanted to increase his prices, he must get a special permit from a price commissar, who needed a detailed statement of necessity and other data such as production and distribution costs.

Source :

Yes, They Were Socialists: How the Nazis Waged War on Private Property, John Kennedy, 5th July 2022

https://mises.org/wire/yes-they-were-socialists-how-nazis-waged-war-private-property
Posted by: SA
« on: July 05, 2023, 07:42:39 am »

Classic Music:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sALXH1Mhaiw" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ke3sDDOdMrQ" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Posted by: antihellenistic
« on: June 24, 2023, 10:00:24 pm »

Quote
I think Zea_mays has already answered this, but is there a way we can successfully associate true authentic socialism with anti-tribalism?

Still no way, we must implement National Socialism through different form.
Posted by: christianbethel
« on: June 24, 2023, 03:36:36 pm »

I think Zea_mays has already answered this, but is there a way we can successfully associate true authentic socialism with anti-tribalism?
Posted by: 90sRetroFan
« on: March 22, 2023, 06:31:20 pm »

Our enemy Culture Critic accurately recognizes that democracy is pro-Western:

https://twitter.com/Culture_Crit/status/1638637841537462272

Quote
Reminder that nobody ever voted for this.


but better still, this led to the following conversation in the replies where our enemies agree that National Socialism is indeed anti-Western:

Quote
that building in Manchester looks like one of the buildings the Nazis (whose architecture SUCKED) built in Germany.

Quote
The German ministry of finance, built in that era, looks brutalist.


Quote
Nazi is brutalism. They're virtually the same thing - walls of the State's jails.


Quote
Birmingham had a bit of help from the Germans.

Quote
The Luftwaffe was involved in blitzkrieg. Dive bombing campaigns by Stukas we're a large part of it. In addition there was a bombing campaign of England called the Blitz in 1940 and 1941

Quote
Blame the blitz

I am happy to reach academic agreement with our enemies. Now would be a good time for me to repost my post from the old forum where I was making the same point (long before our enemies did).

OLD CONTENT

By the way, one of the best ways to demonstrate that the Third Reich is not part of Western civilization, but instead an attempt to overthrow it, is to look at its architecture, which deliberately eschews complexity and outright celebrates austerity (notice in particular the frequent use of square columns, and also flat roofs):































For contrast, Western architecture in Germany/Austria a.k.a. more of the same extremely ugly Homo Hubris self-titillation found throughout Western civilization:



















END OF OLD CONTENT

See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/msg11512/?topicseen#msg11512

Quote
Hitler having zero qualms about destroying Western architecture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Warsaw

Quote
    German forces dedicated an unprecedented effort to razing the city, destroying 80–90% of Warsaw's buildings, including the vast majority of museums, art galleries, theaters, churches, parks, and historical buildings such as castles and palaces. They deliberately demolished, burned, or stole an immense part of Warsaw's cultural heritage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Castle,_Warsaw#During_World_War_II

Quote
    On 4 October 1939 in Berlin, Adolf Hitler issued the order to blow up the Royal Castle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_Palace

Quote
    the Saxon Palace was blown up by the Germans as part of their planned destruction of Warsaw.[2][3]

etc. etc. (Hail Hitler!)

One more excerpt from the enemy conversation:

Quote



Why do you think Hitler despised France?
Posted by: antihellenistic
« on: March 19, 2023, 11:19:28 pm »

True Left's Statement that Hitler write Mein Kampf only for gain winning on democratic elections, not for ideological purpose are confirmed

Quote
“But if what you say is true, you should not have written Mein Kampf beforehand,” I objected.

“Quite right. And I frequently regret that I did. But at the time, when I was in Landsberg after November 9, 1923, I thought everything was over. I was in captivity, I was deprived of my freedom, the party was expropriated, dissolved—everything seemed at an end, even worse than Germany after the Great War. I wrote Mein Kampf as a kind of report to the German Volk, chiefly in memory of the martyrs of November 9. I wrote it out of the narrowness of my cell.

“When I was released, I had Mein Kampf printed. Perhaps, I hoped, it would serve to rally my old friends. And that really happened! That is how it came about.

“But gradually, I saw that many things were, after all, different from the way I had seen them through prison bars and from the way I had figured them out. And soon I set out to draft changes, improvements. But they only turned out to be changes for the worse. I thought about withdrawing the book. But it was too late. It made its way through Germany, it was even spread abroad, and what was right and positive about it did not miss its mark. So I kept hands off. I made no more changes. The book even gave me the financial basis for reconstructing the party. If I were to write it today, a lot would be different. But today, I would not write it at all

Wagener - Hitler Memoirs of a Confidant page 273

So, learn about National Socialism ideology cannot only from reading Mein Kampf, or even we must abandon it
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: March 19, 2023, 08:50:42 pm »

In Mein Kampf, Hitler says his first political interest was the socialism of the SPD, but he became "Jew aware" and turned on the party while in Vienna before WWI.

This does not line up with the evidence, and it seems likely Hitler was trying to rewrite his past.

Given the facts, it seems more likely Hitler was one of the many soldiers who were swept up in politics for the first time during the 1918-1919 revolution. Jews were in leadership positions in all stages of the revolution in Bavaria, so Hitler couldn't have been ignorant of this fact. Yet he served (multiple times) as a representative anyway.

Hitler's description in Mein Kampf about becoming aware of all the Jews in the SPD and existing socialist parties, the existence of a "ruthless struggle" between ideologies, learning about the importance of speaking, and studying Marxist ideology in detail lines up very well with his time in the military (both as a participant in the revolution and subsequent assignment to anti-bolshevik activities) in 1919, rather than his time in Vienna.

Quote
Accordingly I had no feeling of antipathy towards the actual policy of the Social Democrats. That its avowed purpose was to raise the level of the working classes—which in my ignorance I then foolishly believed—was a further reason why I should speak in favour of Social Democracy rather than against it.
[...]
And so at the age of seventeen the word 'Marxism' was very little known to me, while I looked on 'Social Democracy' and 'Socialism' as synonymous expressions. It was only as the result of a sudden blow from the rough hand of Fate that my eyes were opened to the nature of this unparalleled system for duping the public.

If Social Democracy should be opposed by a more truthful teaching, then, even though the struggle be of the bitterest kind, this truthful teaching will finally prevail, provided it be enforced with equal ruthlessness.
[...]
I am thankful now for the ordeal which I had to go through at that time; for it was the means of bringing me to think kindly again of my own people, inasmuch as the experience enabled me to distinguish between the false leaders and the victims who have been led astray.

We must took upon the latter simply as victims.
Adolf Hitler. (1925-1926). Mein Kampf. Translated by James Murphy (1939). London: Hurst and Blackett Ltd. Page 44-50.
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.526617/page/n45/mode/2up


Now re-read the section about Hitler's actions during the Räterepublik and compare it. Incredible.

Even more incredible is how all of this evidence of Hitler and other future National Socialists starting their political careers as communists has been compiled by a mainstream historian, yet people still have the nerve to declare National Socialism as the world's most rightist ideology!
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: March 19, 2023, 08:48:59 pm »

Previously, we saw how Goebbels wrote in his diary that he was a communist:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg10621/#msg10621

And how Otto Strasser was part of a leftist/communist militia during the 1918-1919 revolution.


What about Hitler? It seems that his very first political involvement was on the side of the socialists in Bavaria during the 1918-1919 revolution--including the final stage during the most thoroughly communist part. While he likely never admitted he was part of the revolution, the evidence is pretty convincing.

This would explain why he was so close to Goebbels and spent so much effort trying to keep Strasser in the party.


The German Revolution of 1918–1919 was kicked off by mutinying soldiers, and Hitler's unit in Bavaria was one of the units which supported the revolution in Bavaria.

Quote
The People's State of Bavaria (German: Volksstaat Bayern)[nb 1] was a short-lived socialist state in Bavaria from 1918 to 1919. The People's State of Bavaria was established on 8 November 1918 during the German Revolution, as an attempt at a socialist state to replace the Kingdom of Bavaria. The state was led by Kurt Eisner until his assassination in February 1919, and co-existed with the rival Bavarian Soviet Republic from 6 April 1919, with its government under Johannes Hoffmann exiled in Bamberg. The People's State of Bavaria was dissolved upon the establishment of the Free State of Bavaria on 14 August 1919.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_State_of_Bavaria

In the final phase, it descended into anarchy and Bolshevism. However, even in this stage, Hitler lent his services to the revolutionary republic!
Quote
Though he advocated a socialist republic, Eisner distanced himself from the Russian Bolsheviks, declaring that his government would protect property rights.
[...]
On Saturday 12 April 1919, only six days into Toller's regime, the Communist Party seized power, led by three Russian Bolsheviks, with Eugen Leviné as head of state and Max Levien as the chairman of the Bavarian KPD.
[...]
Having received the blessings of Lenin – who at the annual May Day celebration in Red Square said: "The liberated working class is celebrating its anniversary not only in Soviet Russia but in ... Soviet Bavaria"[17][19][13] – Leviné began to enact more hardline communist reforms, which included forming a "Red Army" from factory workers, seizing cash, food supplies, and privately owned guns, expropriating luxurious apartments and giving them to the homeless and placing factories under the ownership and control of their workers. One of Munich's main churches was taken over and made into a revolutionary temple dedicated to the "Goddess of Reason." Bavaria was to be in the vanguard of the Bolshevization of Europe, with all workers to receive military training.[13]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic

Recall that during this time period, anti-Hitler Jewish journalist Konrad Heiden wrote that Hitler considered the mainstream Majority Socialist faction of the Social Democratic Party to be "too rightist" for his taste:
Quote
Hitler had spent the winter months of 1918-19 with a reserve battalion of his regiment at Traunstein, in Upper Bavaria. At the time when the Soviet Republic was set up, he was again serving with his regiment in Munich. People who knew him at this time have stated that he professed himself a Majority Socialist, and that he even declared his intention of joining that Party. If this is true, then it was certainly as a matter of tactics and not of principle. The Majority Socialist Party was at that time regarded by many as a Party of the Right because it had lost its pre-War programme and not yet found a new one.
Konrad Heiden. (1934). A History of National Socialism. London: Methuen and Co. Page 8.
https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.17342/page/7/mode/2up

The respected mainstream historian Ian Kershaw wrote that during the German Revolution of 1918-1919 Hitler was chosen as a representative in the communist Munich Soviet Republic—even after the Soviet Republic called new elections to ensure soldiers' representatives reflected the will of the soldiers and were loyal to the new leadership of the Soviet Republic. Now we know why Heiden could say that the SPD was too rightist for Hitler at the time! Going further, Kershaw outlines that many trusted NSDAP members had aided the communists during the uprising.

Quote
On 21 November 1918, two days after leaving the hospital in Pasewalk, Hitler was back in Munich. ... He came back to a Munich he scarcely recognized. The barracks to which he returned were run by soldiers' councils. The revolutionary Bavarian government, in the shape of a provisional National Council, was in the hands of the Social Democrats and the more radical Independent Social Democrats. ...
[...]
One of the most remarkable aspects of the biographical parts of Mein Kampf is how quickly Hitler passed over his own experience of the traumatic revolutionary period in Bavaria. After all, he witnessed for the most part at close quarters the turmoil which so deeply scarred his psyche. He was based in Munich, at the epicentre of events, for the whole period that saw the descent into political chaos following the assassination of Eisner and culminated in the violent end of the 'council's republic'. Yet the entire treatment of the months between the November revolution and the suppression of the Räterreplik covers a mere page of his otherwise expansive book. Finding the soldiers' councils in charge of his regiment so repelled him, he wrote, that he decided to leave again as soon as possible. ... returning to Munich in March 1919. During the Räterpublik—the 'passing rule of Jews' as he dubbed it—Hitler claimed he pondered what could be done, but repeatedly realized that, since he was 'nameless', he 'did not possess the least basis for any useful action'. ...
[...]
The gulf between the momentous nature of the events taking place before his eyes and this brief and laconic account came not unnaturally to fuel speculation that Hitler was trying to obfuscate his own actions and conceal a role which might prove embarrassing to the later nationalist hero. It does seem likely that this was indeed his aim, and to a considerable extent he succeeded in it. What Hitler did, how he reacted to the drama unfolding around him in Munich in the first half of 1919, remains for the most part a dark spot in his personal history. Even so, the evidence, patchy in the extreme though it is, reveals one or two surprises.

The German Revolution ... was a messy, largely spontaneous and uncoordinated affair. ...
[...]
The revolution in Bavaria had preceded that in the Reich itself. ...
[...]
When, with a cry of 'off to the barracks', workers, peasants, soldiers, and sailors attending a huge peace demonstration on Munich's Theresienwiese on 7 November 1918, addressed by Eisner, had headed for the city's main garrison area, they had met with no resistance from the troops.[8] [...] Without support from the army, the monarchy was finished. The ailing King Ludwig III and his family fled that night. Hitler, over two decades later, was to remark that at least he had to thank the Social Democrats for ridding him of 'these courtly intersts'.[10]
[...]
The assassination of Eisner...on 21 February 1919...provided then the signal for a deterioration into chaos and near anarchy.[12]

With 'Red Guards' trampling the corridors and rooms of the Wittelsbach Palace...a meeting...dominated by members of the USPD and anarchists, proclaimed a 'Councils Republic' in Bavaria. Majority Socialists and Communists—the latter dubbing it a 'Pseudo-Councils Republic' (Scheinräterpublik)—refused to participate.[14] An attempt to unseat it by using troops loyal to the elected government...failed on 13 April. But the initial failure of the counter-revolution simply strengthened the resolve of the revolutionary hot-heads and ushered in the last phase of the Bavarian revolution: the full Communist takeover in the second, or 'real' Räterpublik—an attempt to introduce a Soviet-style system in Bavaria. 'Today, Bavaria has finally erected a dictatorship of the proletariat', ran the proclamation of the new Executive Council under the direction of the Communist Eugen Leviné, a veteran of the 1905 Russian revolution.[15] It lasted little more than a fortnight. But it ended in violence, bloodshed, and deep recrimination, imposing a baleful legacy on the political climate of Bavaria.
[...]
... propaganda througout the Reich as well as in Bavaria itself, was that of alien—Bolshevik and Jewish—forces taking over the state, threatening institutions, tradition, order, and property...
[...]
For Hitler himself, the significance of the period of revolution and Räterpublik in Munich can hardly be overrated. It has been said that Hitler did not decided to become a politician; rather, through the revolution and the rule of the Councils, politics came to him, into the barracks.[22] It is time to explore the truth of that assertion.
[...]
Both, according to Schmidt, were repelled by the changed conditions in the Munich barracks, now in the hands of the Soldiers' Councils...[24] If that was indeed the reason for volunteering, Hitler and Schmidt could have found no improvement on reaching Traunstein. The camp...was also run by the Soldiers' Councils which Hitler allegedly so detested. ...Probably in late January, as Schmidt hinted, Hitler returned to Munich.[26]
[...]
As we have noted, Hitler spoke of his involvement in the investigatory commission following the suppression of the Räterpublik as his first political activity. Evidence recently come to light of Hitler's actions during the revolutionary era does not accord with this assertion. It also helps to suggest why Hitler was so reticent about his behaviour during the months that the 'November criminals', as he later repeatedly called them, ruled Munich.

A routine order of the demobilization battalion on 3 April 1919 referred to Hitler by name as the representative (Vertrauensmann) of his company. The strong likelihood is, in fact, that he had held this position since 15 February. The duties of the representatives (Vertrauensleute) included cooperation with the propaganda department of the socialist government in order to convey 'educational' material to the troops.[33] Hitler’s first political duties took place, therefore, in the service of the revolutionary regime run by the SPD and USPD. It is little wonder that he later wished to say little of his actions at this time.

In fact, he would have had to explain away the even more embarrassing fact of his continued involvement at the very height of Munich's 'red dictatorship'. On 14 April, the day after the Communist Räterepublik had been proclaimed, the Munich Soldiers' Councils approved fresh elections of all barrack representatives to ensure that the Munich garrison stood loyally behind the new regime. In the elections the following day Hitler was chosen as Deputy Battalion Representative.[34] Not only, then, did Hitler do nothing to assist in the crushing of Munich's 'Red Republic'; he was an elected representative of his battalion during the whole period of its existence.

How to interpret this evidence is, nevertheless, not altogether clear. Since the Munich garrison had firmly backed the revolution since November, and again in April supported the radical move to the Räterepublik, the obvious implication must be that Hitler, in order to have been elected as a soldiers' representative, voiced in these months the views of the socialist governments he later denounced with every fibre of his body as 'criminal'. At the very least it would appear that he could not have put forward strongly opposed views. Already in the 1920s, and continuing into the 1930s, there were rumours, never fully countered, that Hitler had initially sympathized with the Majority SPD following the revolution. Since the rumours tended to come from left-wing journalists, seeking to discredit Hitler, they were presumably not taken too seriously. But comments, for example, in the socialist Münchener Post in March 1923 that Hitler had assisted in the indoctrination of troops in favour of the democratic-republican state match the evidence, which we have noted, that he served, probably from February 1919 onwards, in such a capacity as Vertrauensmann of his company.[35] Similar rumours circulated in the socialist press in the early 1930s.[36] Ernst Toller reported that a fellow-prisoner also interned for involvement in the Räterepublik had met Hitler in a Munich barracks during the first months after the revolution, and that the latter had then been calling himself a Social Democrat.[37] Konrad Heiden remarked that, during the time of the Councils Republic, Hitler had, in heated discussions among his comrades, voiced support for the Social Democratic government against that of the Communists. There were even reported rumours – though without any supportive evidence – that Hitler had spoken of joining the SPD.[38] In a pointed remark when defending Esser in 1921 against attacks from within the party, Hitler commented: 'Everyone was at one time a Social Democrat.'[39]

In itself, Hitler’s possible support for the Majority Social Democrats in the revolutionary upheaval is less unlikely than it might at first sight appear. The political situation was extremely confused and uncertain. A number of strange bedfellows, including several who later came to belong to Hitler’s entourage, initially found themselves on the Left during the revolution. Sepp Dietrich, later a general in the Waffen-SS and head of Hitler's SS-Leibstandarte, was elected chairman of a Soldiers' Council in November 1918. Hitler’s long-time chauffeur Julius Schreck had served in the 'Red Army' at the end of April 1919.[40] Hermann Esser, one of Hitler’s earliest supporters, who became the first propaganda chief of the NSDAP, had been for a while a journalist on a Social Democratic newspaper.[41] Gottfried Feder, whose views on 'interest slavery' so gripped Hitler’s imagination in summer 1919, had sent a statement of his position to the socialist government headed by Kurt Eisner the previous November.[42] And Balthasar Brandmayer, one of Hitler's closest wartime comrades and a later fervent supporter, recounted how he at first welcomed the end of the monarchies, the establishment of a republic, and the onset of a new era. His subsequent disillusionment was all the greater. 'Unfortunately,' he added, 'we only changed the marionettes,' while the people continued to slave and starve. 'We hadn't bled for a councils government (Räteregierung)'; 'the thanks of the Fatherland were missing,' he concluded bitterly.[43] Similar sentiments, in which, as was the case with Brandmayer, aggressive nationalism and antisemitism intermingled with a form of radicalism born of a sense of social grievance that was rapidly switched from the old monarchical regime to the new republic itself, were widespread following the war. Ideological muddle-headedness, political confusion and opportunism combined frequently to produce fickle and shifting allegiances.
[...]
... In Pasewalk, he did not denounce to his superiors (as patriotic duty would have demanded) the sailors who arrived in the hospital preaching sedition and revolution.[46] On leaving the hospital, he avoided committing himself politically, and made no attempt to join any of the numerous Freikorps units which sprang up to engaged in the continued fighting on the eastern borders of the Reich and the suppression of left-wing radicalism within Germany, not least in Munich itself. After his return to Munich from Taunstein in February 1919, he most likely took part, since his regiment had issued orders to participate, in a demonstration march of about 10,000 left-wing workers and soldiers in Munich. Probably in April 1919, with Munich ruled by the Communist Councils, he wore, along with almost all the soldiers of the Munich garrison, the revolutionary red armband.[47] That Hitler stood back and took no part whatsoever in the 'liberation' of Munich from the Räterpunlik is said to have brought him later scornful reproaches from Ernst Röhm (who was to head the Nazi stormtroopers), Ritter von Epp (after 1933 Reich Governor in Bavaria), and even Rudolf Heß (who would serve as Hitler's private secretary and subsequently become Deputy Leader of the Party).[48]

Only after the German military put down the revolution did Hitler find himself fully engaged in anti-Bolshevik activities:
Quote
With the Bavarian government 'exiled'...Munich...was throughout the spring and summer a city effectively under military rule.[57] ... The 'education' of the troops in a 'correct' anti-Bolshevik, nationalist fashion was rapidily regarded as a priority, and 'speaker courses' were devised in order to train 'suitable personalities from the troops' who would remain for some considerable time in the army and function as propaganda agents (Propagandaleute) with qualities of persuation capable of negating subversive ideas.[58] The organization of a series of 'anti-Bolshevik courses', beginning in early June, was placed in the hands of Captain Karl Mayr, who, a short while earlier, on 30 May, had taken over the command of the Information Department.[59]
[...]
Within days he [Hitler] had been assigned to the first anti-Bolshevik 'instruction courses' to take place in Munich University between 5 and 12 June 1919. ... Among the speakers...Gottfried Feder...made a deep impression on Hitler, and eventually led to Feder's role as the economics 'guru' of the early Nazi Party.
[...]
The task of the squad was to inculcate nationalist and anti-Bolshevik sentiments in the troops, described as 'infected' by Bolshevism and Spartacism.[66]
Ian Kershaw. (1999). Hitler: 1889-1936: Hubris. W. W. Norton & Company. p. 109-123.
https://archive.org/details/hitlerhubris00kers
Posted by: christianbethel
« on: September 06, 2022, 12:28:59 pm »

Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: March 01, 2022, 04:31:27 pm »

Quote
Where did the new thread go, could have swore I saw one a day or two ago?

For reference (so others can easily find them). I made a new thread for discussing leftist ideological differences here:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/leftist-ideological-camps-in-the-big-picture-socialism-marxism-true-leftism-etc/

There is also this thread which was split off, which seems more like off-topic discussion deriving from here:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists/
Posted by: guest55
« on: February 18, 2022, 10:36:54 pm »

Where did the new thread go, could have swore I saw one a day or two ago?

I know Chris Hedges has made quite a few lectures on the topic of different forms of socialism in the past, I'll have to try and dig them up. Perhaps there are facts and examples in those that we can use as a spring board into a wider discussion on the topic? I haven't been listening to a whole lot of leftist radio the last couple of years, so I may be a little out of touch on this subject.

KPFA and KPFK often host people who speak about other forms of leftism and socialism as well, here is one example I just found: Ecomodernism and Degrowth: https://kpfa.org/episode/against-the-grain-march-16-2021/
Just one example. Perhaps when I get some time I'll spend it scouring the net to see what I can find....

Also, should we not do a thorough breakdown of people like John Locke from our perspective as perhaps a start to what you described above?
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: February 14, 2022, 06:39:44 am »

What work remains to be done?


I think the information we have compiled here is sufficient to demonstrate that historic National Socialists viewed themselves as genuine Socialists.

Now, the task is to flesh out a classification of leftism to properly contextualize Marxist Socialism/Communism as merely one type of Socialism among many. Comparing the similarities and contrasting the key differences between 'orthodox Marxist' and Communist ideological positions vs National Socialist ideological positions will be a major task in this. I think it would be useful to consult the works of A. James Gregor for this, as this seems to have been the focus of his career (although he was mostly focused on Fascism and Marxism/Communism, and less so on National Socialism).

Additionally, we must trace the roots of Socialist ideology back further in time beyond Marxism and the so-called "Enlightenment", just as Hitler began to do by declaring his Socialism was inspired by Jesus. (And even the Marxist slogan, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs," has been argued to be inspired from the New Testament.)

Lastly, we can outline ways to "purify" present-day leftist/Socialist ideologies which have thoroughly diverged from orthodox Marxism, in order to fully cut the string needlessly attaching them to Communism and Marxism attitudes (e.g. Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, things like Critical Race Theory/Intersectionality).

Such discussions can probably be taken to a new thread, leaving this one for continued curation of historic information.
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: February 14, 2022, 06:35:49 am »

At this point, I have posted nearly all of the information that I've stumbled across during my preliminary search into the Socialist attitudes of National Socialists.

I say this is a preliminary search, because I have basically just dug a tiny bit deeper to double-check the quotations that can be found in various articles and forum posts scattered around the internet. Yes, the massive walls of quotes in this thread are just scratching the surface.

I think we have abundantly proven our point with the information contained here. As far as I am aware, this is the largest collection of quotes that has ever been compiled on the internet regarding the leftist Socialist attitudes of National Socialists.

----

To summarize the sources:

• Hitler's public speeches, writings, and interviews.

• Hitler's private conversations:
   ◦ sourced from rightist anti-Hitlerists (Hermann Rauschning (including where Hitler said he is literally going to be the "Executor of Marxism")).
   https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg10718/#msg10718

   ◦ sourced from leftist anti-Hitlerists (Albert Krebs, Otto Strasser (including Hitler's debate with Strasser where he told him Strasserist Socialism wasn't authentically Socialist enough)).
   https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg10620/#msg10620

   ◦ sourced from leftist Hitler loyalists (Otto Wagener, Alfred Rosenberg, and Albert Speer (if you count him as 'loyal'/leftist)).


• Official party propaganda, particularly that which was written/edited/approved by Joseph Goebbels. (Much of which was clearly written for leftist audiences).

• Private diary entries of Joseph Goebbels's personal opinions. (Where he literally said he is a Communist and other very leftist things).
   https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg10621/#msg10621

• Memoirs from Albert Speer, Alfred Rosenberg, Herman Goering, and Otto Strasser indicating how Hitler favored Goebbels heavily and was ideologically influenced by him.

• Information from Otto Strasser declaring Goebbels had initially supported Walter Stennes's leftist coup in the SA, and how Goebbels assured Ernst Roehm that Hitler would soon purge the rightist elements of the party (and how Strasser believed Hitler genuinely intended to do this, and how Strasser believed Goebbels was genuinely leftist rather than a rightist infiltrator).
   https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg10915/#msg10915


• Basic biographical/historical information:
   ◦ from Wikipedia acknowledging that various other party figures were leftists/Socialists (or at least within "the left wing of the NSDAP"). Wikipedia isn't a perfect source on history, but it is generally good at presenting the "mainstream consensus narrative"--i.e. the historians being referenced on those pages were likely willing to admit the leftist tendencies of many members.

   ◦ from Hermann Rauschning and Otto Strasser revealing how the three major opposition factions in the party (Walter Stennes's SA faction, Ernst Roehm's SA faction, and the Strasserist faction) were all leftists!!! (And how Hitler had invited leftist Ernst Roehm to come back to Germany to lead the SA after the Stennes coup was put down!!! And how Hitler made constant concessions to the Strassers to keep them in the party!!!)


• Information about the social welfare policies of National Socialist Germany:
   ◦ sourced from documents used by Allied intelligence and were later used at the Nuremberg Trials.

   ◦ sourced from National Socialist propaganda (which was considered accurate enough to also be used by Allied intelligence and Nuremberg Trial prosecutors).

   ◦ sourced from an essay by Léon Degrelle written in the final years of his life, indicating the lasting importance of these policies in his mind.


• Quotes from non-National-Socialists acknowledging the leftist Socialist elements:
   -From leftists:
      ◦ Willy Brandt, a member of a Communist party and later the Chancellor of West Germany from 1969-1974.
      ◦ Bertrand Russell, who acknowledged in his "History of Western Philosophy" that Hitler and Mussolini fell within the branch of Romanticist leftism.
      ◦ Richard Crossman (British Labour Party politician who had visited Germany in the 1930s).
      ◦ Konrad Heiden (a Jewish journalist from the 1930s; I assume he was liberal/left-leaning).

   -From Western-Civilization-admiring rightists:
      ◦ F. A. Hayek, Frederick Augustus Voigt.
      ◦ 21st-century propaganda articles by rightists of various camps.


• Opinions from historians:
   ◦ George Watson's article "Hitler and the socialist dream", which has many quotes, which I have confirmed and posted separately from his article.
   https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg11177/#msg11177

   ◦ Wolfgang Venohr, Hellmut Diwald, and Sebastian Haffner, who explicitly acknowledged Hitler's attitudes were "socialist or left". (And they also included the quote from Goebbels's newspaper where he says, "According to the idea of the NSDAP, we are the German left.")
   https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg11181/#msg11181

   ◦ A. James Gregor (who wrote about Mussolini and Fascism's development from Socialism and Marxism).
   https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg10717/#msg10717


• Parallelism with Marxists/Communists:
   ◦ Frederick Engels's declaration that during the next revolution/world war there needs to be "the disappearance from the face of the earth...of entire reactionary peoples." George Watson drew the obvious parallel between the revolutionary acts Engels advocated for and what Hitler did.
   https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg11178/#msg11178
   https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg11179/#msg11179

   ◦ I've said before that things like Stalin's policy of "Socialism in one country" is an indication that even Communism in the early USSR moved towards nationalist-socialism and away from orthodox Marxism (contrast it to the internationalism of the Trotskyist faction that Stalin purged).

----

To summarize what we have learned:

• Hitler and many of his key associates viewed themselves as genuine Socialists.

• Hitler made it clear both in public and private that he aimed to essentially "purify" and correct the errors that Marxists/Communists had made to Socialism, which prevented their Socialism from living up to its idealistic promises.

• Hitler and Goebbels made clear that the reason National Socialists were anti-Zionists is because Jews were the elite beneficiaries of capitalism and profiteers in an unjust system.

• Hitler, Goebbels, and Rosenberg declared National Socialists were motivated by concerns for "social justice".

• Hitler was thoroughly against post-Renaissance Western Civilization and wanted to replace it with a radically new Civilization. (I.e., unlike rightists, he did not admire it nor want to preserve it.)

• The National Socialist party had many leftist factions which constantly battled for control of the party--from its early days all the way to even after Hitler became Chancellor.

• We have multiple quotes from National Socialists and non-National-Socialists literally saying the NSDAP was a party of the "left".

• We have evidence from Hitler's rightist enemies (formerly) within the party, Hitler's leftist enemies (formerly) within the party, Hitler's leftist enemies who never joined the party, and Hitler's rightist enemies who never joined the party emphasizing the Socialism of his ideology. We also have evidence of leftist and rightist historians emphasizing the leftism and Socialism of his ideology.

• We have evidence that the National Socialist party and Communist party were competing for left-wing supporters--which was apparent even to non-National-Socialists in the 1930s like Konrad Heiden and F. A. Hayek.

• We have evidence used by Allied intelligence and Nuremberg Trial prosecutors outlining the social welfare policies of National Socialist Germany--showing that pre-NS welfare systems were expanded upon.

• We have evidence of Hitler declaring his intent to forge alliances with anti-Westerners of diverse ethnic backgrounds around the world. (And he would later put that into practice, although we didn't discuss the details in this thread).

• We have evidence that the (rightist, Western-Civilization-admiring) Neo-Nazi emphasis on words translated as "creativity" is a misunderstanding of "productive" vs "non-productive" labor--not IQ scores or 'genetic genius'.

• We have seen that the National Socialist war-time policy to (allegedly) result in "the disappearance from the face of the earth...of entire reactionary peoples" may in fact have been an idea Hitler got from Marxist theorist Frederick Engels. At the very least, the obvious parallelism between Marxist theory and National Socialist practice here indicates there was nothing remarkable about National Socialist war-time actions. The narrative that NS actions during the war were somehow a "uniquely" evil machination of their twisted minds is forever proven to be nonsense. (And, in any case, their polices were far less successful than the Western ethnic cleansing of both North and South America, but I digress.)

• Hitler, Otto Strasser, Mussolini, historian A. James Gregor, philosopher Bertrand Russell, and others agree with our 'big picture' argument that Marxist Socialism is merely one variety of Socialism among many.

----
----


I would have been skeptical about all these claims had I not read all these quotes myself. What else remains to be learned, buried under a lifetime of propaganda and lies?
Posted by: Zea_mays
« on: February 14, 2022, 06:19:17 am »

That poster also reminds me of the National Socialist labor recruitment posters targeted at "Slavic" people.

Polish-language poster, c. 1940-1941:

Quote
Let's go to Germany for agricultural work! Report immediately to your mayor.


Russian-language poster:

Quote
I live with a German family and feel just fine. Come to Germany to help with household chores.


In other words, Hitler's views on the "Slavic people" were more favorable than even Marxists, since Friedrich Engels doubted they could be integrated into the nations of "revolutionary peoples", and would instead have to be completely exterminated:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg11178/#msg11178
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg11179/#msg11179


----

Wochenspruch der NSDAP was a propaganda poster/wall newspaper issued by the party from 1937-1944. The images below are particularly useful in demonstrating the importance of Socialism to National Socialists, since they're literally one-sentence propaganda posters printed for mass distribution. Long speeches and writings are one thing, but it is pretty difficult to argue National Socialists were anti-Socialist when their own, most basic, forms of propaganda called themselves Socialists.  ;D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wochenspruch_der_NSDAP


Note that the word Socialism is printed in a different color to emphasize it:

Quote
True socialism, however, is the doctrine of the strictest performance of duty.
   -Wochenspruch der NSDAP ("Weekly Quotation of the National Socialist Party"), June 8-14, 1941.


Quote
“There is no socialism that does not apply to one’s own people. -Adolf Hitler.”
   -Wochenspruch der NSDAP ("Weekly Quotation of the National Socialist Party"), August 27-September 2, 1939.