True Left

Ideology => True Left vs Right => Topic started by: rp on December 11, 2022, 12:47:47 am


Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: Schopenhauer on June 02, 2025, 02:45:55 am
At only 8 minutes in to the above video, I have to say it's one of the most impressive lectures I've listened to in a very long time!!! The lecturer actually conveys true understanding of the subject matter and expresses it in such a way it's easy for most to understand. This is something I have rarely experienced in this life, and mostly only here on this forum reading what 90SRF has to say! ^^^
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: Schopenhauer on June 02, 2025, 02:34:13 am
Civilization #54: The German Will to Power
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What explains the rise of Adolf Hitler?

In this talk to his Beijing high school students, Jiang Xueqin explains that Hitler was a manifestation of the German obsession with the unity of will. 

After the humiliating defeat of World War I and amidst the economic turmoil of the Weimar Republic, Germans sought salvation and redemption in their civilization, especially the music of Richard Wagner and the philosophy of Frederick Nietzsche.   They longed for an "ubermensch" to emerge, and Hitler rose to the occasion.   

References:
1.  The World as Will and Representation by Arthur Schopenhauer
2.  The Ring Cycle by Richard Wagner
3.  The Genealogy of Morals by Frederick Nietzsche
4.  Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley
5.  The Speeches of Adolf Hitler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Nq--qU9Kc

I have personally learned at a very young age of the power of the will, and my experience in the U.S. Army helped catalyze that analysis in my psyche forever. Will power is everything!
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: rp on January 22, 2025, 11:03:05 am
Nietzsche seems to argue for the merits of semen retention, I suspect because it increases virility (i.e. virtue theory):
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/7g85yv/nietzsche_on_semen_retention/
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 08, 2025, 03:01:57 pm
We can take this as an enemy acknowledgement that we have won the ethical debate. I predicted this would happen all the way back here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/debunking-rightist-anti-immigration-arguments/msg9867/#msg9867

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This pretty much highlights how it is flat-out logically impossible for WNs to win the ethical debate. If they go with the position that migration is wrong (which they need for criticizing migration by "non-whites"), then they cannot avoid the conclusion that "whites" wronged "non-whites" first, and hence have no authority to complain. The only logical way to avoid incriminating themselves is to go with the position that migration is not wrong, in which case they have no reason to complain. Either way they are screwed.

Their only recourse is to declare that it is OK when "whites" do it but not OK when "non-whites" do it ie. ingroup/outgroup double-standards a.k.a. "It's OK to be white!" In other words, to declare that they do not care about ethics.

Title: Re: Homo Hubris
Post by: antihellenistic on January 07, 2025, 10:33:25 pm
Westerners justify themselves only because they can do anything, not because they are ethical on rational argument and keep being rational when they implement it's argument

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Only the weak use arguments. Therein lies the roots of the decline of the White race --- when it decided to justify itself through values approved by reason, rather than allowing its strength, its conquering will, its vitality, its master morality, its grand achievements, to speak for themselves, without justification.

Source :

https://x.com/dr_duchesne/status/1876794190786351348

Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on September 05, 2024, 12:00:20 am
Please take a break from posting. None of your recent posts are helping us at all. All they will do is confuse readers.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on September 04, 2024, 11:24:03 pm
Nietzsche's view on "Master Race"

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“The same is true of virtually all Europe: the suppressed race has gradually recovered the upper hand again, in coloring. shortness of skull, perhaps even in the intellectual and social instincts: who can say whether modern democracy, even more modern anarchism and especially—that inclination for "commune" for the most primitive form of society, which is now shared by all the socialists of Europe, does not signify in the main a tremendous counterattack—and that the conqueror and master race, the Aryan, is not succumbing psychologically, too?” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Source :

Friedrich Nietzsche, The Genealogy of Morals page 30 - 31

https://archive.org/details/ongenealogyofmor0000niet/page/30/mode/2up
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on July 10, 2024, 09:33:37 pm
Nietzsche contra Wagner, then National Socialism contra Nietzsche

Translated by German to English Google Translate

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National Socialist Nietzsche critics

As early as 1937, Oscar Levy pointed out that the image of Nietzsche was divided under National Socialism. There were critics of Nietzsche who vehemently rejected the philosopher as incompatible with National Socialism.

In Nietzsche heute (1935), Hans Goebel turns against Rosenberg, Giese and Baeumler. He wants to prove that Nietzsche cannot be the mastermind of the Nazi state, since for him there was only the good European. Nietzsche was also an enemy of Christianity and German nationality. Where Nietzsche wants the superman, the Reich promotes "healthy and strong Volksgenossen". Nietzsche lacks any positive conception of the state.

Curt von Westernhagen said that Nietzsche had been wrongly portrayed as a pioneer of Nazi ideas, but rather that the goat had been turned into a gardener. Nietzsche was not only not an enemy of the Jews, but the most skilful lawyer they had ever had. (Westernhagen: Nietzsche, Jews, anti-Jews! Weimar 1937)

Wilhelm Michel, who in Nietzsche in our Century (1939) tries to defend Christianity from the perspective of a Catholic existentialism, comes to a rejection of Nietzsche's philosophy and all attempts to make him the philosopher of the Third Reich. Michel identifies Nietzsche's critique of morality and religion as Nietzsche's Marxist body of thought. (Michel: Nietzsche in our century. Berlin 1939, p. 38)

Martin Löpelmann (Nietzsche National Socialist? In: NSEn, Vol. 2, No. 28 of 23 December 1933, pp. 497f.) rejected Nietzsche as a National Socialist guide or intellectual hero. He knew how to rave about power and strength, because he never had them himself. He blames Nietzsche for hostility towards Germanism, pro-Jewish sentiments and opposition to socialism. He had "never had any understanding for the workers' question."

The philosopher and educator Ernst Krieck explained the National Socialist reception of Nietzsche, quoting an article in the French newspaper Le Temps: "All in all: Nietzsche was an opponent of socialism, an opponent of nationalism and an opponent of the idea of race. If one disregards these three schools of thought, he might have made an excellent Nazi." [5]

...

In the 1930s, Oscar Levy wrote essays on Nietzsche and National Socialism, partly under the pseudonym Defensor Fidei, in which he distinguished the philosopher from a National Socialist interpretation. Levy pointedly: "With these views, it is quite certain, Nietzsche would be in a concentration camp or in the misery of emigration today" (Oscar Levy [Defensor Fidei]: Ein Nazi contra Nietzsche (1937), in: Levy 2005, p. 260)

...

Nietzsche was rehabilitated in France and Italy in particular. Deleuze, Guattari, Laruelle, Bataille, Montinari, and others stood up for Nietzsche and saw a falsification by the National Socialists. After 1945, German philosophy had a hard time with Nietzsche. From the 1980s onwards, a new Nietzsche boom began, which made Nietzsche the philosopher about whom the most published is today. Current Nietzsche research in Germany almost unanimously assumes that Nietzsche was misused, e.g. Hans-Martin Gerlach.

Source :

Autoren der Wikimedia-Projekte. (2008, May 8). Verzerrende Darstellung der Philosophie Nietzsches während der NS-Diktatur. Wikipedia.org; Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche-Rezeption_im_Nationalsozialismus
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on July 04, 2024, 11:46:57 pm
Friedrich Nietzsche defended slavery based on Aristotelian doctrine of "Natural Slavery"

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In 1864, at the height of the American Civil War, the 19-year-old Nietzsche submitted a valedictory thesis on the Greek poet Theognis of Megara. Extremely learned and at the same time subtly partisan, it was a sympathetic reconstruction of Theognis’ staunchly aristocratic world view, including his racist, segregationist views on forced labour. Slaves, Nietzsche remarked, hailed from “useless and harmful stock” and belonged to an altogether different and invariably subordinate species. Approvingly he cites Theognis’s “very accurate” poem:

Never do the enslaved go upright
But the crooked necked are ever gnarled
Just as a squill does not bear roses or hyacinths
A slave woman does not bear a free child.

These comments echo the arguments of Southern apologists of slavery like William Harper, who insisted on the inherent physiological and psychological differences between Africans and Europeans. In his Memoir on Slavery, Harper maintained that “the Negro race, from their temperament and capacity” were “peculiarly suited” to hard labour, not least because they were significantly less susceptible to physical pain than white men. Nietzsche was convinced that Africans, whose constitution he believed closely resembled that of “primeval man”, felt less pain than white people, especially the white “cultural elite”. In Daybreak he pondered the possibility of importing Chinese workers to Europe to carry out menial tasks, because their “modes of life and thought” made them suitable “industrious ants”.

Like George Fitzhugh, the South’s preeminent pro-slavery theorist, Nietzsche frequently invoked Ancient Greece to argue that slavery belonged to “the essence of a culture” and that in order for there to be a “fertile soil for the development of art”, the “overwhelming majority” had to be “slavishly subjected” in the service of a “privileged class”.

...

Throughout his oeuvre, Nietzsche adheres to the view that slavery was, is, and will be needed: for the flowering of Ancient Greek civilisation; for the regeneration of contemporary European culture; for the establishment of a new nobility based on a new social “rank-ordering”; and for the future elevation of “man” into “superman”. Nietzsche consistently formulates his most radical ideas about human flourishing and autonomy in the context of their opposites, what he calls “the danger of servitude” and the “incomplete” humanity of the slave. But slavery, for him, is less a foil to than a condition of human greatness. In The Gay Science, he significantly mentions “subhumans” as the natural attendants of heroes and supermen.

...

Among other things, Nietzsche’s justifications of slavery, notably his advocacy of “natural slavery”, provide us with a new perspective on his conception of human nature and psychology. As he writes in Beyond Good and Evil, slavery is the “prerequisite for spiritual discipline and cultivation”, a “moral imperative of nature” addressed to “peoples, races, ages, and classes – but above all to the whole human animal, to man.”

Source :

Ruehl, Martin A. (2018). In defence of slavery: Nietzsche’s dangerous thinking. Accessed on 5th July 2024, from https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/nietzsche-ideas-superman-slavery-nihilism-adolf-hitler-nazi-racism-white-supremacy-fascism-a8138396.html
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on June 30, 2024, 09:05:47 am
Quote
Bataille was one of the first to denounce the deliberate misinterpretation of Nietzsche carried out by Nazis, among them Alfred Baeumler. In January 1937, he dedicated an issue of Acéphale, titled "Reparations to Nietzsche", to the theme "Nietzsche and the Fascists.[5]" There, he called Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche "Elisabeth Judas-Förster," recalling Nietzsche's declaration: "To never frequent anyone who is involved in this bare-faced fraud concerning races."[5] Domenico Losurdo ridicules the idea that an "intellectually rather mediocre woman" managed to manipulate and derail interpretations of Nietzsche for decades and inspire political movements encompassing millions of people. He dismisses such idea as unsustainable conspiracy theory noting that "there is no shortage of unsettling and horrific passages in Nietzsche's writings".[150] Due to his complex views and occasionally contradictory comments on these matters, the idea of Nietzsche as a predecessor to Nazism and fascism remains controversial and debated among scholars (see: Nietzsche and fascism). Owing largely to the writings of Walter Kaufmann and French postwar philosophers, Nietzsche's reputation improved and today he usually is not linked to Nazism as he was in the past. Detractors note that authors such as Houston Stewart Chamberlain and Arthur de Gobineau also had complex views on matters of politics, nation and race that were incompatible with Nazi ideology on numerous points, but their influence on the Third Reich is still not dismissed as a misunderstanding.[151]

Source :

Wikipedia contributors. (2024, June 19). Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche. In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 14:01, June 30, 2024, from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Philosophy_of_Friedrich_Nietzsche&oldid=1229946796
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on June 29, 2024, 08:10:16 pm
In this, Hitler is consistent with Schopenhauer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer#Political_and_social_thought

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Schopenhauer was fervently opposed to slavery. Speaking of the treatment of slaves in the slave-holding states of the United States, he condemned "those devils in human form, those bigoted, church-going, strict sabbath-observing scoundrels, especially the Anglican parsons among them" for how they "treat their innocent black brothers who through violence and injustice have fallen into their devil's claws". The slave-holding states of North America, Schopenhauer writes, are a "disgrace to the whole of humanity".[76]

https://philarchive.org/archive/WOOSOT-9

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Schopenhauer’s moral philosophy, which is not developed along contractarian lines, but is grounded in compassion with sufferers, concerns itself (not exclusively) with the same relatively powerless and vulnerable groups that his political philosophy overlooks, as evidenced by some of the examples that Schopenhauer himself adduces as confirmation of his moral philosophy, such as the abolition of slavery and the animal welfare movement.
...
Schopenhauer is laudably critical of the unjust domination and oppression
of human beings that was happening in his mid-nineteenth-century world – in particular, the
African slave trade and the widespread immiseration of the proletariat.41 The “remote cause”
of both of these evils, Schopenhauer avers, is the dominant classes’ desire for luxury: “as long
as luxury exists on the one hand, then necessarily on the other excessive work and a bad life
must exist, be it under the name of poverty, slavery, of proletarians, or of slaves,” since “in
order for a few people to have what is dispensable, superfluous and refined … a great portion
of existing human powers must be expended upon them and withdrawn from what is necessary”
(PP II, 221-222).42
...
Schopenhauer is acutely sensitive to the plight of black African slaves:
in his later works, he regularly refers to the slave trade as the prime historical example of human
depravity. See WWR II, 578; OBM, 218-219, 222; PP II, 193, 228, 231, 315, 320, 533.
42
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on June 29, 2024, 06:51:27 pm
Friedrich Nietzsche support White Colonialism

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Nietzsche was an advocate of European colonialism, seeing it as a way to solve the overpopulation problem, pacify the rebellious working class, and rejuvenate the decadent European culture. European expansion and global domination were part of his "great politics". He noted that in colonies, Europeans often act as ruthless conquerors, unconstrained by Christian morality and democratic values, which he saw as a liberated, healthy instinct.[145]

Quote
We should note that the German term Nietzsche uses for “predatory nature” [Raubtier-Natur] appears in other Nietzschean contexts without any pejorative sense. In many writings from the 1880s, the beast of prey [Raubtier] is contrasted with the despised herd, the domesticated animal that human beings have become under the leveling influences of the Judeo-Christian heritage and a politics of democracy. We must evaluate similarly Nietzsche’s identification of the good European with the criminal, which also often has a positive valence in Nietzsche’s works.48

Other texts from the 1880s indicate that these colonialist criminals and predators are in fact the “good Europeans.” Sometimes the European colonial project is justified in terms of a biological analogy. In the notebooks from 1888, Nietzsche claims:

The right [Recht] to punishment (or to social self-defense) has in essence become the word “justice” [Recht] only through a misuse: a right is acquired through contracts—but self-protection and self-defense are not based on a contract. A people, at least, ought to consider with just as much justification its need for conquest, its craving for power, as a right, whether it be with weapons, with trade, commerce, and colonization—for example, a right to growth. A society that rejects war and conquest for all times and instinctively is in decline: it is ripe for democracy and shopkeeper regimes. (Nachlass 1888, 14[192], KSA 13.379)

In this passage, Nietzsche contrasts democracy and the shopkeeper mentality—a frequently used derogatory term in Zarathustra—with aggressive colonialism, interpreting European expansion as a natural right to self-preservation. In other remarks, Nietzsche uses a historical view to discuss the desired course for European domination of the world.

Source :

1. Wikipedia contributors. (2024, June 19). Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche. In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 23:27, June 29, 2024, from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Philosophy_of_Friedrich_Nietzsche&oldid=1229946796

2. Holub, R. C. (2018) Nietzsche in the Nineteenth Century: Social Questions and Philosophical Interventions. University of Pennsylvania Press, 2018. p. 249

In contrast to Hitler's view on White Colonialism :

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We were ready to throw our forces into the scales for the preservation of the British Empire; and all that, mark you, at a time when, to tell the truth, I feel much more sympathetically inclined to the lowliest Hindu than to any of these arrogant islanders. Later on, the Germans will be pleased that they did not make any contribution to the survival of an out-dated state of affairs for which the world of the future would have found it hard to forgive them. We can with safety make one prophecy: whatever the outcome of this war, the British Empire is at an end. It has been mortally wounded. The future of the British people is to die of hunger and tuberculosis in their cursed island. - Adolf Hitler, 4th February 1945

Source : Bormann, Martin – Testament of Adolf Hitler (Hitler-Bormann Documents) Page 7

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Spain, France and England had all weakened, weakened and exhausted themselves in this futile colonial enterprise. The continent from which Spain and England gave birth, which they created piece by piece, has today acquired a completely independent way of life and completely selfish views. Even so, they were just an artificial world, without a soul, culture, or civilization of their own; and judging from that point of view, they were nothing more than dirt.  - Adolf Hitler, 7th February 1945

Source :

Bormann, Martin – Testament of Adolf Hitler (Hitler-Bormann Documents) Page 13

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The United States and Australia afford good examples. Success, certainly - but only on the material side. They are artificial edifices, bodies without age, of which it is it is impossible to say whether they are still in a state of infancy or whether they have already been touched by senility. In those continents which were inhabited, failure has been even more marked. In them, the white races have impose their will by force, and the influence they have had on the native inhabitants has been negligible. - Adolf Hitler, 7th February 1945

Source :

Bormann, Martin – Testament of Adolf Hitler (Hitler-Bormann Documents) Page 13

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The white races did, of course, give some things to the natives, and they were the worst gifts that they could possibly have made, those plagues of our own modern world-materialism, fanaticism, alcoholism and syphilis. For the rest, since these peoples possessed qualities of their own which were superior to anything we could offer them, they have remained essentially unchanged. Where imposition by force was attempted, the results were even more disastrous, and common sense, realizing the futility of such measures, should preclude any recourse to their introduction. One solitary success must be conceded to the colonizers: everywhere they have succeeded in arousing hatred, a hatred that urges these peoples, awakened from their slumbers by us, to rise and drive us out. - Adolf Hitler, 7th February 1945

Source :

Bormann, Martin – Testament of Adolf Hitler (Hitler-Bormann Documents) Page 13 - 14
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on June 29, 2024, 10:54:35 am
Friedrich Nietzsche was a rightist on racial view

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“There are probably no pure races but only races that have become pure, even these being extremely rare. What is normal is crossed races, in which, together with a disharmony of physical features (when eye and mouth do not correspond with one another, for example), there must always go a disharmony of habits and value-concepts. (Livingstone¹¹³ heard someone say: 'God created white and black men but the Devil Created the half-breeds.') Crossed races always mean at the same time crossed cultures, crossed moralities: they are usually more evil, crueller, more restless. Purity is the final result of countless adaptations, absorptions and secretions, and progress towards purity is evidenced in the fact that the energy available to a race is increasingly restricted to individual selected functions, while previously it was applied to too many and often contradictory things: such a restriction will always seem to be an impoverishment and should be assessed with consideration and caution. In the end, however, if the process of purification is successful, all that energy formerly expended in the struggle of the dissonant qualities with one another will stand at the command of the total organism: which is why races that have become pure have always also become stronger and more beautiful. The Greeks offer us the model of a race and culture that has become pure: and hopefully we shall one day also achieve a pure European race and culture.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche

Source :

1. Daybreak : Thoughts on the Prejudices of Morality by Nietzsche, Friedrich Wilhelm, 1844-1900 page 149

https://archive.org/details/daybreakthoughts0000niet/page/148/mode/2up?q=Devil

2. Friedrich Nietzsche > Quotes > Quotable Quote

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7559943-there-are-probably-no-pure-races-but-only-races-that



In contrast on Hitler's view of race

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In mid-1936 the Nationalsocialistische Korrespondenz stated with clarity and authority: "From his deeds one can recognize the Nordic man - not from the length of his nose and the colour of his eyes." In effect this last phase of National Socialist race theory was a complete rejection of Günther's Nordicism.

Source :

National Socialism and Race by Dr. A. James Gregor

https://archive.ph/2017.06.23-181852/http://dienekes.awardspace.com/texts/natsoc/#selection-359.107-359.313

...

Quote
...Hitler disapproved of such [racial] comparisons. He especially opposed reference to physical contrasts of stature, coloring, or physiognomy among German ethnic groups. In 1930 he told an aid, “Discussions about the race problem will only divide the German people further, incite them against one another, atomize them, and in this way make them inconsequential with respect to foreign affairs.” He admonished senior officials of the party to avoid the subject of ethnic diversity in speeches and articles: “Everything that unifies and welds the classes together must be brought forth, what divides them, what re-animates old prejudices, must be avoided. . . .They are the surest way to destroy a community.” He remarked that people should be selected for leadership roles “not according to outward appearance, but by demonstrating inward ability." Goebbels, himself a diminutive man with a slight limp, recorded in his diary in October 1937, “Discussed race policy with Dr. Gross. I reproached him for our flawed standards for making selections. According to them, practically every officer today would be dismissed."

Source :

(2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'Racial Hygiene' section)

Quote
...the concept of keeping the race pure can never be transferred from the Jewish example to, for example, the Aryan.

“Much as I gaze in awe at the Jews’ laws for maintaining and preserving the purity of their race, I must nevertheless proceed from my belief that racial theories, should they become the subject of public discussion, may prove a national disaster rather than a blessing.

“We must accept the mixing of blood as it is. We must not call one blood worse than another, one mixture better than another. Rather, we must employ other means to breed a higher form from this gray mass. We must try’ to bring to the surface the valuable traits of the people living in Germany, to cultivate and to develop them, and we must find ways and means to prevent the propagation of all the bad, inferior, criminal, and decadent tendencies and all the congenital diseases so damaging to the Volk.

Source :

Hitler - Memoirs Of A Confidant by Otto Wagener page 252, 257, 258
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on June 26, 2024, 10:33:30 pm
Friedrich Nietzsche has more in common with Classical-Liberalism and Fascism, not National Socialism

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What is frustrating about this morass is that Beiner has, in fact, stumbled onto something significant. Beiner is absolutely right that it’s possible to offer a coherent Nietzschean defense of liberal capitalism, with Weber as one model. Beiner points toward a centrist liberalism that can be distinguished from ultra-rightism only by a decision about values, rather than a difference in underlying worldview. That doesn’t bother Beiner too much. He seems confident that the good guys can stick, indefinitely, to the basically nonrational commitment that separates them from the bad guys. Or at least that it’s the best hope we’ve got.

But if we were to do what Beiner asks us to do in the introduction — take a closer look at the history of actually existing Nietzscheanism or Heideggerianism — it might prove harder to keep the faith. We would find it disturbingly difficult in practice to separate the liberal wheat from the far-right chaff.

Take Max Weber, for instance. He ends up as the unlikely hero of Dangerous Minds, capable of seeing the “iron cage” of modernity as clearly as Nietzsche and Heidegger and “affirming” it anyway. “Because it doesn’t rest upon the entertaining of fantasies about the transcendence of modernity,” Beiner eulogizes, “Weberian nobility is ultimately more noble than Nietzschean nobility.” And yet an ardent German nationalism ran throughout the work of this “very pessimistic liberal” like a red-and-black thread. Read against the grain, Weber’s work shows less a stoic resolve in the face of modernity’s inevitability, and more a terror at its precarity, at least in its German-imperial incarnation.

For Weber, the iron cage was always under threat from some non-German menace. In his 1895 Inaugural Lecture at Freiburg University (where Heidegger would later become rector under the Nazi regime), it was Polish farmers. They were migrating into eastern Prussia and threatening the livelihood of native German workers with their racially determined willingness to labor under more degrading conditions. The solution that Weber proposed in 1893 was nothing less than the “absolute exclusion of the Russian-Polish workers from the German East.” Near the end of his life, the threat was the racially debased forces fighting Germany in World War I. He warned an audience in 1917 “that Germany is fighting for its very life against an army in which there are negroes, Ghurkas, and all manner of barbarians who have come from their hiding places all over the world and who are now gathered at the borders of Germany, ready to lay waste to our country.”

In between, Weber developed an elaborate theoretical account of the “elective affinity” between capitalist modernity and the unique cultural traits of Europeans. Capitalism didn’t just happen to develop in Europe. It was born out of Europeans’ distinctive religious-cultural capacity for discipline and instrumental rationality, as opposed to what Weber called the “boundless greed of Asians.” Weber’s belief in the world-historical “destiny” of the German state was not, as Beiner claims, an aberration, but a logical extension of the core of his thought.

Weber is hardly the only Nietzschean “liberal” to have played sustained footsie with the authoritarian or nationalist right. Scholars have noted a similar trajectory in the history of the Austrian school of economics, the intellectual cornerstone of the twentieth-century neoliberal movement. The political theorist Corey Robin elicited a storm of controversy in 2013, mostly from libertarian writers, for an essay highlighting parallels between Nietzsche and the Austrians. But some similarity is plain as day, not only (or especially) with respect to Nietzsche personally but to the subsequent Nietzschean tradition.

Weber, for instance, was an interlocutor of the school’s early twentieth-century leader, Ludwig von Mises, and an inspiration to younger members such as Alfred Schütz and Joseph Schumpeter. The most important twentieth-century Austrian economist, F.A. Hayek, issued denunciations of “rationalism” as strong as any to be found in Nietzsche or Heidegger. (The political theorist Michael Oakeshott, to whom Hayek is often justly compared, has been called the “English Heidegger.”)

More recently, there was Don Lavoie, a mentor to many influential US Austrian school adherents and, at the time of his death, the Charles Koch Professor of Economics at George Mason University. Lavoie spent his career arguing for an affinity between Austrian school methodology and the “hermeneutic” philosophy of Heidegger and his follower Hans-Georg Gadamer.

The strongest point of contact between many Austrian liberals and Nietzscheans such as Heidegger is a shared conviction that political authoritarianism can be tolerable or even necessary in the face of advancing leftism. Heidegger’s recently published Black Notebooks show the extent to which his support for Nazism was related to his terror of creeping “Bolshevism,” which he saw (of course) as powered by world Jewry. Similar considerations, sans antisemitism, drove Ludwig von Mises to declare in 1927 that fascism “has, for the moment, rescued European civilization” by suppressing communist uprisings in Italy. “The merit that fascism has thereby acquired for itself will go on living in history eternally,” he pronounced.

The historian Quinn Slobodian has demonstrated how this logic continued to underpin neoliberal support for authoritarian regimes in apartheid South Africa and Augusto Pinochet’s Chile. Whether motivated by the economist Wilhelm Röpke’s horror at the prospect of majority rule by black South African “cannibals,” or dismay at the popular support enjoyed by Chile’s democratically elected Marxist president, Salvador Allende, the Austrian tradition has proved more than willing to make its peace with the idea of a “liberal dictator,” as Hayek once called Pinochet.

So it’s less surprising than it might initially appear that Ludwig von Mises has joined Nietzsche and Heidegger in the pantheon of today’s alt-right. Richard Spencer has recommended that his acolytes read von Mises and his American student Murray Rothbard. Mencius Moldbug, the preferred brand of pseudo-highbrow neofascist leaders, agrees: “Mises is a titan; Rothbard is a giant,” he has written. The chairman of the Ludwig von Mises Institute (LVMI) in Auburn, Alabama, is Lew Rockwell, whom you might remember for ghostwriting all those racist Ron Paul newsletters. The LVMI’s most notorious affiliate is Hans-Hermann Hoppe, whose 2001 screed Democracy: The God That Failed has become something of a bible for the alt-right movement.

It’s not just capitalist liberals backsliding into fascism, in other words. The fascists have a hard time staying away from capitalist “liberalism” as well.

Source :

Baker, Erik. (2018). Why the Alt-Right Loves Nietzsche. Accessed on Wednesday, 26th June 2024, from https://jacobin.com/2019/01/neitzsche-heidegger-ronald-beiner-far-right

Liberalism led into Rightism
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on June 11, 2024, 04:14:37 pm
Quote
Nietzsche is obsessed with pacifying the movements which he views as being in favor of leveling and equality.

This part we agree with in principle. Socialism should not be about achieving equality:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg10981/#msg10981

Quote
Throwing out egalitarianism from leftist thinking is what we are here to do. True Leftism still believes in superiority and inferiority; the difference is that we believe the superior can be (and in reality are more often than not) defeated by the inferior in worldly competition (the colonial era being one example). In other words, True Leftism is divergence of the moral hierarchy from the natural hierarchy.

Socialism is then the attempt, given awareness of the above, to set things up in practice so as to help the superior (but less competitive) defeat the inferior (but more competitive).

But Nietzsche would surely oppose this even more than he opposes levelling!
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on June 11, 2024, 06:36:47 am
Nietzsche were Anti-Socialist and Support Western Capitalistic Darwinian Society

Quote
In these works, Nietzsche diagnoses what he names the “optimistic worldview” as a condition of the modern age, and he locates it in a historical tendency stretching back two thousand years to the teachings of Socrates. He went as far as to describe the uprising of anarchists and communists during the Paris Commune as a “saturnalia of barbarism” led by workers who were little more than a “class of barbaric slaves who have learned to regard their existence as an injustice, and now prepare to avenge, not only themselves, but all generations.”

Unlike many of his conservative contemporaries, Niezsche did not aim for the restoration of a lost tradition, nor did he profess nostalgia for a bygone aristocratic order. He rather aimed to cultivate a following — as his romantic interest Lou Salomé put it, “Nietzsche writes not to convince, but to convert.” At the heart of his political outlook is an aristocratic calling to his readers to participate in overcoming and subduing the democratic and socialist impulses spreading across European civilization.

A central concern of Nietzsche’s political thought from these early works up to his more mature work in Thus Spoke Zarathustra (1883) is the crisis of the individual genius. Nietzsche is obsessed with pacifying the movements which he views as being in favor of leveling and equality. These, he feared, would erase the possibility of individual genius in culture.

...

In this phase, Nietzsche starts to lean more heavily on physiological ideas. His work in the late 1880s, The Antichrist (1895) and Twilight of the Idols (1889), marks what he calls his “declaration of war” on the weak and the degenerate. Nietzsche was familiar with the eugenics movement, and it is these writings that make him its spiritual godfather.

While Nietzsche’s reactionary agenda is evident throughout his career, scholars of his politics like Frederick Appel and György Lukács have shown that in his later-period works, like The Will to Power (1901), he breaks to the right of Bismarck on the topics of imperialism, war, and the workers’ question. The late Nietzsche is meant to inspire his readers to rise above the compassion and weakness of the masses by making themselves capable of brutality toward those he regards as the weak, the degenerate, and the failed.

...

It is important to emphasize that Nietzsche was fascinated by political economy, and he returned multiple times throughout his career to the writings of the Philadelphia-based political economist Henry Charles Carey. It was the American thinker’s concept of economic competition that Nietzsche championed as useful for maintaining the harmony of the social order. We know, also, that he knew of Marx, but there is no proof that he ever seriously read him — though the name Marx is underlined in one of the books in Nietzsche’s library.

Source :

Why Nietzsche Hated Socialism

https://jacobin.com/2024/05/nietzsche-deleuze-marx-postmodernism-socialism#:~:text=Throughout%20his%20life%2C%20Friedrich%20Nietzsche,differences%20and%20suppressing%20individual%20genius.&text=Our%20new%20print%20issue%2C%20centered,of%20religion%2C%20is%20out%20now.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on May 23, 2024, 07:04:42 pm
Recall also from Aryanism.net:

Quote
The supposed ideological connection between Nietzsche and Hitler is based on nothing more than a misleading photo-op of Hitler at the Nietzsche Archive in 1933, which he visited not on his own initiative but at the insistence of Elisabeth Foerster (a financial donor to the NSDAP). There is no evidence that Hitler considered National Socialism to be in any way inspired by Nietzsche; on the contrary, during private conversations with such as Hans Schemm he denounced Thule Society members (often the same ones interested in occult studies) who attempted to suggest a Nietzschean origin to National Socialism. In Hitler’s own words: “I’ve expressly and repeatedly forbidden this sort of thing! All that rubbish about the “Thing” places, the solstice festivals, the Midgard snake, and all the rest of the rubbish they dredge up from German prehistory! Then they read Nietzsche with fifteen-year-old boys and, using incomprehensible quotations, paint a picture of the superman, exhorting the boys: ‘That is you—or that is what you are to become.’” In fact, Hitler’s main philosophical influence was undoubtedly Schopenhauer, whose books he studied both by himself as a soldier during WWI, and later again under self-professed Schopenhauer disciple Dietrich Eckart. Alfred Rosenberg recalls those days of their private study group: “Occasionally, when I went to see him in the morning, he would meet me on the stairs and read me his latest effort right then and there. … Or else, Eckart might just have come across another beautiful passage in his beloved Schopenhauer, which he would insist upon reading to me on the spot.” Hitler’s other great influence was Wagner (himself a Schopenhauer disciple, by no coincidence), to the extent that he said: “Whoever wants to understand National Socialism must first know Wagner.” Nietzsche, in contrast, held a negative opinion of both Wagner and Schopenhauer (“The unworthy attempt has been made to see Wagner and Schopenhauer as types of mental illness: one would gain an incomparably more essential insight by making more precise scientifically the type of decadence both represent.” – Friedrich Nietzsche) Therefore it is impossible for National Socialism to be Nietzschean.

Further details:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche_contra_Wagner

Quote
Nietzsche attacks Wagner's views, expressing disappointment and frustration in Wagner's life choices (such as Nietzsche's mistaken belief that Wagner had converted to Christianity, perceived as a sign of weakness).
...
saying that Wagner

is a master at finding tones in the realm of human suffering, depressed and tortured souls, at giving voice to even mute misery.
...
Nietzsche states that Wagner and the philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer are to Nietzsche antipodes — opposites.
...
the ones that Wagner responds to. Such decadents need mildness and a god for the sick — a healer, a savior. Nietzsche says after exploring Epicureanism and Christianity, and has developed a sharp eye for what he terms “backwards inference” — to understand the creator by knowing the creation, and to ask: “Is it hatred against life, or the excess of life which has become creative?”[20][21][22]
...
Nietzsche focuses on Wagner’s opera Parsifal. The story of Parsifal is partly based on medieval Germanic legends and Christian ideals, and it dramatizes a conflict between sensuality versus chastity.[28]

1. Part one of "Wagner as Apostle of Chastity" is a verse by Nietzsche, written in the style of a poem by Goethe. Parsifal contains an act of castration, which Nietzsche refers to in line three.[29] Nietzsche’s poem begins by asking:

"Is this still German?
Out of a German heart, this torrid screeching?
A German body, this self-laceration?
German this priestly affectation, this incense-smelling lurid preaching?"[30]

...
If Parsifal is taken seriously, it would be seen as a "curse on the senses and the spirit", a regression to "sickly Christian and obscurantist ideals", and a "self-abnegation".
...
Nietzsche concludes, "The preaching of chastity remains an incitement to anti-nature: I despise everyone who does not experience Parsifal as an attempted assassination of basic ethics."[40][41]

Besides:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche#Reception_and_legacy

Quote
Nietzsche had a distinct appeal for many Zionist thinkers around the start of the 20th century, most notable being Ahad Ha'am,[294] Hillel Zeitlin,[295] Micha Josef Berdyczewski, A.D. Gordon[296] and Martin Buber, who went so far as to extoll Nietzsche as a "creator" and "emissary of life".[297] Chaim Weizmann was a great admirer of Nietzsche; the first president of Israel sent Nietzsche's books to his wife, adding a comment in a letter that "This was the best and finest thing I can send to you."[298] Israel Eldad, the ideological chief of the Stern Gang that fought the British in Palestine in the 1940s, wrote about Nietzsche in his underground newspaper and later translated most of Nietzsche's books into Hebrew.[299]
...
The First International claimed Nietzsche as ideologically one of their own.[304] From 1888 through the 1890s there were more publications of Nietzsche works in Russia than in any other country.[305] Nietzsche was influential among the Bolsheviks.

See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/arthur-schopenhauer-vs-friedrich-nietzsche/msg17020/#msg17020
Title: Re: Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
Post by: antihellenistic on May 23, 2024, 09:04:25 am
Hitler's Gnosticism Confirmed part 3

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Nietzsche’s Political Legacy, edited by Eitelfritz Scheiner. It is a slender hardbound book with a quote from Nietzsche scrawled on the inside cover by the editor and dated December 15, 1933: “It was those who created the races and hung them with a belief and with love: thus they were of service to life.”

Other sources attesting to Hitler’s interest in Schopenhauer and Nietzsche are notoriously unreliable. Ernst Hanfstaengl claimed that Schopenhauer had been Hitler’s “philosophical god in the old Dietrich Eckart days”—Eckart himself attributes several Schopenhauer remarks to Hitler in his “Conversation”—but that following the meeting with Nietzsche’s sister, Hitler became a convert. “From that day at Potsdam the Nietzschean catchphrases began to appear more frequently—the will to power of the Herrenvolk, slave morality, the fight for the heroic life, against reactionary education, Christian philosophy and ethics based on compassion,” Hanfstaengl confidently recalled though he mistakenly placed the encounter in Potsdam rather than Weimar. “Schopenhauer, with his almost Buddhist gentleness, was buried forever, and the Gauleiters started to take their inspiration from a savage parody of Nietzsche.”

Riefenstahl provides an equally vivid but contradictory account. “I have a great deal to catch up on,” Riefenstahl recalls Hitler telling her in the book-lined comfort of his Prince Regent Square apartment. “In my youth I did not have the means or the possibility to provide myself with an adequate education. Every night I read one or two books, even when I go to bed very late.” He said that these readings were his primary source of knowledge, the grist from which he derived his public speeches. “When a person ‘gives’ he also has to ‘take,’ and I take what I need from books,” he said. When Riefenstahl asked Hitler what he liked to read, he allegedly replied, “Schopenhauer.”

“Not Nietzsche?” Riefenstahl asked.

“I can’t really do much with Nietzsche. He is more an artist than a philosopher; he doesn’t have the crystal-clear understanding of Schopenhauer. Of course, I value Nietzsche as a genius. He writes possibly the most beautiful language that German literature has to offer us today, but he is not my guide.” - Adolf Hitler

Source :

1. Adolf Hitler > Quotes > Quotable Quote - Goodreads

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9457275-i-can-t-really-do-much-with-nietzsche-he-is-more

2. Hitlers Private Library The Book - Archive.org page 113 - 115

https://archive.org/details/hitlers-private-library-the-book/page/n113/mode/2up
Title: Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
Post by: antihellenistic on May 23, 2024, 05:54:48 am
Hitler's Gnosticism Confirmed part 2

Quote
Hitler never said he was a big fan or had read Nietzsche. He always claimed to have read and admired Schopenhauer. He had Schopenhauer books that he read during his service on the WW1 Western Front, in between running messages to officers headquarters and playing with his dog. He misinterpreted Schopenhauer but at least he read Schopenhauer.

Nietzsche’s works were legally inherited by his unintelligent sister who cared for Nietzsche after he had his mental breakdown, and died in 1900 at age 55. She had no idea what her brother was talking about, but she was married to a German Nationalist Anti Semite. Nietzsche’s sister and her husband became friends with the Nazis and they even had visits with Hitler. The Nazis and Nietzsche’s sister benefited from their association, but it was no benefit to philosophy.

Hitler and the Nazis used such ideas as the Ubermench and the Will to Power to support Nazi ideology. They weren’t philosophers, they were politicians and the idea of having an esteemed philosopher supporting their politics was very useful for them, whether they understood Nietzsche or not. Reputable scholars say Nietzsche would have despised the Nazis.

The Nazis used Nietzsche to give themselves intellectual credibility, but it was all political nonsense.

Source :

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-almost-everyone-insist-that-Nietzsche-had-to-do-with-fascism-and-Hitler
Title: Re: Exposing people with the Western Darwinian Worldview
Post by: antihellenistic on May 17, 2024, 01:09:30 am
Western Moral Competitionism and Progressivism

Quote
Finally, I would like to bring attention again to a section in my book answering the question: how do we connect the barbaric asocial traits of prehistoric Indo-European warriors to the superlative cultural achievements of Greeks and later civilised Europeans? Nietzsche provides us some keen insights as to how the untamed agonistic ethos of Indo-Europeans was translated into civilised creativity. In his fascinating early essay, ‘Homer on Competition’ (1872), Nietzsche observes that civilised culture or convention (nomos) was not imposed on nature, but rather was a sublimated continuation of the strife that was already inherent to nature (physis).The nature of existence is based on conflict and this conflict unfolded itself in human institutions and governments. Humans are not naturally harmonious and rational as Socrates had insisted; the nature of humanity is strife. Without strife there is no cultural development. Nietzsche argued against the separation of man/culture from nature: the cultural creations of humanity are expressions or aspects of nature itself.

Source :

Faustian Man in a Multicultural Age by Ricardo Duchesne page 202
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on April 15, 2024, 02:23:43 am
"leftists being physically overpowered in any sort of close combat or confrontation initiated by rightists."

If this were the case, top combat sports athletes would have bodybuilder physiques. But they rarely do:

https://cdn.imago-images.com/bild/st/0307783442/m.jpg

Bodybuilder physiques just reduce mobility.

"we defend gun ownership"

Yes, and you can also shoot attacking rightists, which does not require a bodybuilder physique either. Indeed, bodybuilder physiques would be easier targets in a shootout.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: SirGalahad on April 15, 2024, 12:25:25 am
I agree that on an aesthetic level, bodybuilding shouldn’t be promoted. But on a practical level, I get what RP is saying. For as long as the world contains even a single bodybuilder, isn’t it best to encourage as many leftists as possible (regardless of sex) to become bodybuilders also? Not encouraging it as intensely as rightists do for their own camp, would simply lead to most leftists being physically overpowered in any sort of close combat or confrontation initiated by rightists. The same sort of logic is applied when we defend gun ownership, despite personally hating guns
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on April 14, 2024, 11:59:07 pm
We must raise awareness that bodybuilding is energetically wasteful. As already discussed, extra muscle mass requires not only extra energy to initially build, but also thereafter extra energy just to maintain, and also means extra mass to move around during daily activity which further wastes energy. Healthwise, extra muscle mass also places extra strain on internal organs due to having to work harder to serve the increased body size, and also hinders the immune system as covered here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/aryan-immune-system/msg655/#msg655

We can deduce that those who go for the bodybuilder physique are those who are also unconcerned about wasteful behaviour, which is certainly true of Nietzscheans.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: rp on April 14, 2024, 10:46:00 pm
Well, I was thinking because, as Schopenahauer said, men are the more aesthetic sex. But I suppose this does not apply to those women who are lower in sexual dimorphism.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on April 14, 2024, 10:39:24 pm
Why only for men?
Title: Re: JEWS HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH US!
Post by: rp on April 14, 2024, 10:27:46 pm
We should be promoting the Arhant/foe destroyer archetype as a counter to the Nietzschean archetype. We also need our own "fitness" subculture to promote ideal body aesthetics for men. What do you think?
Title: Re: Turanian diffusion
Post by: antihellenistic on April 14, 2024, 08:48:41 pm
Gym sport activity reflecting the people's political worldview (Pro-Western Rightism)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/37021b4a085ce9b7985e4a712c54112e/5f041a5da077957e-e6/s1280x1920/8ace8c84134f36afe8450b8630b54afe58b58983.jpg)
Title: Re: Turanian diffusion
Post by: antihellenistic on April 09, 2024, 08:09:26 am
Philosophy of Turanism

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/06f8c1f173082fff8fd3575e3169e6be/721ffaa662edda40-9b/s1280x1920/e6f6aedeb4f6889e03b10d748a1231611b2ea6a8.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/4c382928693bb28c23d8d894a7ebcbc8/721ffaa662edda40-56/s1280x1920/d28001311eece1332032924ec0178fa670cfab05.jpg)
Title: Re: Turanian diffusion
Post by: antihellenistic on April 09, 2024, 01:31:11 am
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/3661a6f05e5e1831821a01b625c1ec94/699dcbc27f1f3065-fc/s1280x1920/f29b18fe17ecadf1597dd2abb9dcb5ddbd1e782f.jpg)
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on April 09, 2024, 12:56:52 am
Nietzsche's ideal of Greek Racial Purity

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/8200e2006a6eff1dd485e60392e4b610/6e2aaa46e9f0e1b7-b7/s1280x1920/923397af3702a4196607c8eb0741bf02d91df090.jpg)
Title: Re: Twitter Propaganda Warfare
Post by: antihellenistic on April 09, 2024, 12:46:32 am
This is the example of rightist moral circles, the moral of Western Civilization

https://twitter.com/stoic_sith/status/1777437013630759171
Title: Re: Turanian diffusion
Post by: antihellenistic on April 09, 2024, 12:35:02 am
Example of Turanian Culture, Western Civilization

https://twitter.com/thuleluca/status/1775537680052347270

The uplodaer's account :

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/c053ae5f901dc63b123ba2cd4794ba87/70041053fb8a0330-87/s1280x1920/432ce026583005dad229c604d4d2b5a50cd80176.jpg)
Title: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
Post by: antihellenistic on March 08, 2024, 11:11:23 pm
Western Civilization, the Creator of Constitutional Barbarism

Quote
It should thus be clear that, for Nietzsche, Greek civilization was not produced by a naturally harmonious character, or a fully moderated and pacified city-state. Rather, Greeks achieved their “civility” by rechanneling the destructive feuding and blood lust of their Dionysian past and placing their strife under certain rules, norms and laws. The limitless and chaotic character of strife as it existed in the state of nature was “civilized” when Greeks came together within a larger political horizon. They continued to fight but their warfare now took on the character of an organized contest with certain limits and conventions.16 The civilized aristocrat was the one who, in exercising sovereignty over his powerful longings (for sex, booze, revenge, and any other kind of intoxicant) learned self-command and, thereby, the capacity to use his reason to build up his political power and rule those “barbarians” who lacked this self-discipline. Nietzsche admired the way Greeks were able to overcome the “pre-Homeric abyss of a gruesome savagery of hatred and pleasure in destruction” while at the same time remaining at ease with their superlative will to strife

...

I would like to add to Nietzsche the historically based observation that the Greeks viewed the nature of existence as strife because of their unique background in a state of nature where strife was the overriding ethos. There are strong reasons to believe that Nietzsche’s understanding of the nature of existence as strife (and how this strife unfolded itself in human culture) is an expression of his own Western background and his study of the Western agonistic mode of thinking that began with the Greeks. One may agree that strife is in the ‘nature of being’ as such, but it is worth noting that, for Nietzsche, not all cultures have handled nature’s strife in the same way and not all cultures have been equally proficient in the sublimated production of creative individuals or geniuses. Nietzsche thus wrote of two basic human responses to the horror of endless strife: the un-Hellenic tendency to renounce life in this world as “not worth living,” leading to a religious call to seek a life in the beyond or the after-world, or the Homeric tragic tendency, which acknowledged this strife, “terrible as it was, and regarded it as justified” (2000a: 189). The cultures which came to terms with this strife, he believed, were more proficient in the completion of nature’s ends and in the production of creative individuals willing to act in this world. He saw Heraclitus’ celebration of war as the father and king of the whole universe as a uniquely Greek affirmation of nature as strife. It was this affirmation which led him to say that “only a Greek was capable of finding such an idea to be the fundament of a cosmology” (in Wilson 2005).

Source :

The Uniqueness of Western Civilization Ricardo Duchesne page 444 and 445
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 07, 2024, 04:53:17 pm
This is true. However, the tweeter is worse than Nietzsche. At least Nietzsche is consistent. The tweeter promotes Boromir Syndrome.

https://twitter.com/athei_crusade88/status/1727824525885083831
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: rp on January 07, 2024, 09:35:24 am
https://x.com/athei_crusade88/status/1733601805257314686?s=20
Quote
Sadly Nietzche really liked jews, even mention they could control europe with their master morality and that anarcism and antisemitism are worst forms of slave morality.

I think people use Nietzch for same reason they use tate, while ignoring bad sides.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 01, 2024, 10:00:24 pm
His record seems to indicate as much:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amon_G%C3%B6th

Quote
In his opening address as the Kommandant of the newly populated camp, Göth told his new prisoners, "I am your god."[25][26][27]
...
On his birthday in 1943, Göth ordered Natalia Karp, who had just arrived in Płaszów, to play the piano. Karp performed Frédéric Chopin's Nocturne in C-sharp minor so well that Göth allowed her and her sister to live.[30]
...
During his time at Płaszów, Göth lived comfortably in a villa, owning cars and horses that he rode in the camp. He had a Jewish cobbler inmate make him new shoes each week.[47]

The SS itself would agree with me:

Quote
On 13 September 1944, Göth was relieved of his position and charged by the SS with theft of Jewish property (which belonged to the state, according to Nazi regulations), failure to provide adequate food to the prisoners under his charge, violation of concentration camp regulations regarding the treatment and punishment of prisoners, and allowing unauthorised access to camp personnel records by prisoners and non-commissioned officers.[55]
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: rp on January 01, 2024, 08:42:45 pm
"Amon Goeth"
Wait, are you saying Goeth (an SS officer) was a Nietzschean (and therefore bad)?
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 01, 2024, 08:35:52 pm
What Nietzscheans fantasize about:

https://incels.is/threads/i-have-my-own-personal-fantasy-world-i-like-to-think-about.559597/

Quote
In modern England, a dastardly, despicable, depraved criminal organisation, located in my county, take advantage of the woke corrupt government and become the new rulers of the county, renaming it: the zone.

The criminal organisation declare the zone as an independent state and forcibly leave the United Kingdom and rule over it with large steel fists.
The populace of the zone are trapped within its borders, they're abandoned by the corrupt, selfish british government and they are completely at the mercy of their rulers.

Absolute obedience, loyalty and compliance is demanded from the criminal organisation.
Enforcing the will of the organisation, are a violent, merciless police force, called: the skarletts.
The skarletts wear black uniforms with red turtleneck and red berets.

The Skatletts have free reign to act, do, kill, ****, imprison and torture whoever, whenever, wherever.
They are not held to any standards.
In this fantasy world, I am a high-ranking officer of the skarletts.
I'm basically this world's version of amon goeth mixed with judge death.

I'm a corrupt, hedonistic, sadistic rapist and murder, indulging in my disgusting unforgivable activities and commiting unspeakable, indescribable atrocities on poor, innocent, defenceless men, women, children and babies.

My motivation, as with many in the skarletts, is just power and control.
To be a master of life and death, to be a God among mortals.
No one escapes my gaze, judgement or my desires.

I wish I could live this fantasy world, I think about it often.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: rp on December 03, 2023, 09:01:22 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/comments/niipe2/schopenhauer_borrowed_the_concept_of_eternal_self/?rdt=34967
Title: Re: If we lose
Post by: twitter on November 01, 2023, 09:12:28 pm
https://twitter.com/The_Hellenist?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Quote

The Hellenist ☀️
@The_Hellenist
·
Jul 18
White men need to stop complaining about “mid” white women and start impregnating them. We need millions of white babies immediately.

Quote

The Hellenist ☀️
@The_Hellenist
·
May 24
We are headed for the same fate as the Roman Empire: unchecked, envy-fueled, barbaric violence from the slave class directed at everything and everyone associated with the master class.

If you are of European descent, you should be preparing for war.


Quote
The Hellenist ☀️
@The_Hellenist
·
Jun 28
Not only should we not allow African migrants into our countries, but we should be actively subjugating Africans in their home countries.


Quote
The Hellenist ☀️
@The_Hellenist
·
Aug 8
The real reason the West has fallen into decadence is atheism. When the populace has nothing to worship, they worship themselves[/b[you have always worshiped yourselves], indulging in their worst impulses: greed, lust, pity, hubris, envy[you have always been envious and arrogant], sloth, et cetera.

Quote
The Hellenist ☀️
@The_Hellenist
·
Jun 18
To save the West, we must turn our backs on the King of Weakness, Jesus of Nazareth. The Gods will lead the way back to beauty and virtue.

Quote

The Hellenist ☀️
@The_Hellenist
Some are having trouble guessing my stats, so I will assist:

Race: White
Ancestry: Nordic
Nationality: American
Sex: Male
Height: 6’ 3”
Weight: 195 lbs.
Build: Athletic
Hair: Blonde
Eyes: Blue
IQ: 139

Shocking, right? For a second, I thought I was a fat Colombian Jew.


Quote
The Hellenist ☀️
@The_Hellenist
·
Oct 14
Men only want three things: war, war, and war.

Lack of war is literally killing our men. For the love of Ares, let us conquer a country, any country. How about Somalia?


This guys a communist barbarian.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on September 05, 2023, 12:48:56 am
What does "based" really mean? Our enemies help us understand:

https://incels.is/threads/i-wish-i-was-a-jewish-elite.522915/

Quote
If your not a jewish elite your just a goycel tbh

As an elite, you can have sex with anyone you want, when you want, how you want.

Control the world, ruin societies, endless degenerate orgies, sacrifice people and animals, manipulate laws to your advantage, infinite money etc

Name a more based existence

That's what it means.

Quote
Yeah I'd kill to be part of the tribe.

I would not. And that is why I am proud to not be based.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: Aryan_Militarism on August 11, 2023, 11:41:58 pm
Schopenhauer was true gnostic:

Quote
At age seventeen, without any advanced schooling, I was as overwhelmed by the wretchedness of life as the Buddha in his youth when he saw illness, old age, pain, and death. Soon enough, the truth, proclaimed loudly and clearly by the world, overcame the Jewish dogmas that I had also been indoctrinated with, and the result for me was that this world cannot be the work of an all-good being but rather of a devil who had brought creatures into existence in order to gloat over the sight of their anguish.
Source: R.L. Wicks, The Oxford Handbook of Schopenhauer, Oxford University Press, p. 98.

Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on June 09, 2023, 08:54:04 pm
(((Friedrich Nietzsche)))

Quote
What Europe owes to the Jews? Many things, good and bad,  and above all one thing of the nature both of the best and  the worst: the grand style in morality, the fearfulness and  majesty of infinite demands, of infinite significations, the  whole Romanticism and sublimity of moral  questionableness and consequently just the most  attractive, ensnaring, and exquisite element in those  iridescences and allurements to life, in the aftersheen of  which the sky of our European culture, its evening sky, now  glows perhaps glows out. For this, we artists among the  spectators and philosophers, are grateful to the Jews.

...

The Jews, however, are beyond all doubt the strongest, toughest, and purest race at present living in Europe, they know how to succeed even under the worst conditions (in fact better than under favourable ones), by means of virtues of some sort, which one would like nowadays to label as vices owing above all to a resolute faith which does not need to be ashamed before “modern ideas,” they alter only, when they do alter, in the same way that the Russian Empire makes its conquest—as an empire that has plenty of time and is not of yesterday—namely, according to the principle, “as slowly as possible”! A thinker who has the future of Europe at heart, will, in all his perspectives concerning the future, calculate upon the Jews, as he will calculate upon the Russians, as above all the surest and likeliest factors in the great play and battle of forces.

...

...one should certainly take account of this impulse and tendency, and make advances to it (it possibly betokens a mitigation of the Jewish instincts) for which purpose it would perhaps be useful and fair to banish the anti-Semitic bawlers out of the country. One should make advances with all prudence, and with selection, pretty much as the English nobility do It stands to reason that the more powerful and strongly marked types of new Germanism could enter into relation with the Jews with the least hesitation

Source :

Beyond Good and Evil by Friedrich Nietzsche, Standard eBooks. page 250, 251, 252

(Page 248 until 252 on archive.org)

https://archive.org/details/friedrich-nietzsche_beyond-good-and-evil_helen-zimmern/page/248/mode/2up


Nietzsche's philosophical legacy for Judaism

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The second German Zionist generation challenged the Zionism of their elders, defining it not as a philantrophic  and diplomatic matter but at the imperative for personal metamorphosis and cultural rejuvenation. As Jewish renaissance was increasingly conceived as a question of personal realization, the Nietzschean moment entered German Zionism. The intellectual leadership of this generation no longer took the rationalist Enlightement tradition for granted. The wider, antibourgeois, neo-Romantic mood of the day with its emphasis on the creative role of myth admiralbly fit the needs of a remodeled Zionism of collective regeneration and personal authenticity.

The rethoric of transvaluation was a staple in the intellectual diet of this generation. On one level Nietzsche acted as a model of rebellious authenticity for what constituted the new secular Jew. Robert Weltsch cited the prevalent paradoxical contention that Nietzsche (and Holderlin) would create stronger Jews than "a forced return to a ritual in which we do not believe." In 1922 Hans Kohn-then still a Zionist-portrayed Nietzsche as the father of a new, less institutional, humanizing form of nationalism, one that was "becoming a question of personal ethics, personal shaping of life":

...

Some of this Nietzschean dynamism went beyond rhetoric into Zionist praxis. The radical Zionist youth movement Hashomer Hazair, founded in Vienna in 1916, clearly incorporated the Nietzschean thematic into its melange of influences including Hans Bluher, Freud, Gustav Landauer, and Gustav Wyneken. ...

Source :

The Nietzsche legacy in Germany, 1890-1990 by Aschheim, Steven E., 1942- page 104-105 (Page 104 on archive.org)

https://archive.org/details/nietzschelegacyi0000asch/page/102/mode/2up

Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: guest98 on June 02, 2023, 07:37:57 pm
Striving for power for it's own sake is dishonourable, if one wields power then it must be used for good, not for evil or selfish ends.   
Title: Re: Exposing people with the Western Darwinian Worldview
Post by: antihellenistic on June 01, 2023, 05:18:30 am
Western Civilization is Fundamentally Terror Civilization

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/c4a5117807dffde5871e0ebd8e1a8edc/3a946cd44dad2b7c-2b/s1280x1920/6a5378c2a83ef4fcffbf57914ad030fe0a881468.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/5d6b6681ab956d74d43c5647395965c1/35dd0e5f5fbc5666-9e/s1280x1920/8017f9697a05d5e1ee996d6a748ed29f3270a462.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/aec253fb228a5a4a347bae91e2f63849/abb68757803287a2-71/s1280x1920/c77c13a69ddbe9cd866f4cc0e172b55678315337.jpg)
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on May 27, 2023, 01:18:25 am
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/dffda4b991505da7ecb3bba518313f49/c1e0afaadd0d1f62-d9/s1280x1920/11b7d298dfce7d8702d1dc1d5bf8f6e4d79ba749.jpg)
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on May 21, 2023, 08:27:03 pm
Nietzschean perspective on what type of people are more valuable:

https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1649068742683361280

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People in debt for gender studies degrees are mocking a man who just launched a 40 story building into the air

At least gender studies graduates spent some time learning about the negative consequences of power instead of thinking only about ways of increasing it.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on May 16, 2023, 01:46:46 am
Example of Nietzschean "Noble Morality"

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/e668b4605ae220ceba51c4aa85c859f4/81fd856061d421e2-0c/s1280x1920/1d8d7696f1ec6d40d3b58ee4c61bde3ac51cd614.jpg)
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on May 11, 2023, 05:23:12 pm
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I'm sure you all know this already, but this thread effectively shatters the illusion that Hitlerism was inspired by Nietzsche and was, in fact, inspired by Schopenhauer. Where did that originate

Hitler's view on rejecting Western materialism and his sayings that having a child is the root of evilness is proof of his close association with Schopenhauer
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: christianbethel on May 11, 2023, 02:15:43 pm
I'm sure you all know this already, but this thread effectively shatters the illusion that Hitlerism was inspired by Nietzsche and was, in fact, inspired by Schopenhauer. Where did that originate?
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on May 11, 2023, 01:54:11 am
My thoughts

Implementation of Nietzscheanism and the Example of Western Civilization's Philosophical Worldview

https://www.amren.com/videos/2023/05/how-to-solve-all-our-problems/

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A nation of racially conscious whites who cared about the future of their people would value real virtue. It would be a happy society of proud people who looked forward to the future. It would celebrate achievement, not failure. It would seek reasons for admiration, not for compassion. It would realize that in society’s number-one mission of encouraging families, some families deserve more encouragement than others.

If we merely celebrate the achievement, we will get herded into continuously working to achieve it without noticing the evilness of it. For example, better if we notice the failure of "white" colonialism and today's "white" neo-colonialism rather than see the "achievements" from working on it. From that, we know that compassion to the victim is the correct way rather than admiring the achievements of their oppressors. If we focus only on the achievement, we will justify it even though it resulting oppression and the complexification of life which creates obstacles for an attempt to integrate any people. Simplifications need to notice people's plight and failure and then find solutions to make problems easily and rapidly solved, so the failure and people's plight will be significantly reduced. For example, the complex metropolitan and industrial life of the west generates more competition and gentrification which are also complex in nature, leading to continuous failure and unavoidable suffering of people. Especially those who failed to compete and find decent jobs

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It’s possible only in a society of common purpose. Diversity will always be the enemy of unity and common purpose.

Yes, we do not want to unite with people with "whites" behavior, and "whites" are not in common with us. Diversity is the enemy of unity
Title: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
Post by: antihellenistic on February 03, 2023, 11:53:33 pm
Debate with Westerners and Libertarian-Anarchist

Me as Diktatur Abdul, the opponents were accounts of "wirecrats#1071", "ChemicalFascination#3914", "ʰᵉᵐⁱ#5956", and "Tad Baterbomb#4348".

The result was, "wirecrats#1071" and "ʰᵉᵐⁱ#5956" proud being westerners,"ChemicalFascination#3914" begin to support Non-Marxist Socialist, "Tad Baterbomb#4348" want to ally with our struggle.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/74665550668d78fa4a3840f399893c17/f8945ed14a4efa6d-19/s2048x3072/a4388f94276df42b24f9decb4b41d6ee97a12301.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/0bb64d78079848df2b2db053372e0506/f8945ed14a4efa6d-2b/s2048x3072/fcab4fc500d4086aafd3c34fd142e130079c7706.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/99ded91346e2502b2d5b1684fb72dc86/f8945ed14a4efa6d-e4/s2048x3072/470d7d8323d57cad3c1193f8a6edbe1dac2ce873.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/e92e79367fc5a6f749aec8bb325bae7c/f8945ed14a4efa6d-5b/s2048x3072/93bc181f4b5716ac591e25d04ead64cc12fb2c1a.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ed0a41da563cff757833fc0e6ee05001/f8945ed14a4efa6d-42/s2048x3072/6a2cb835920ae8ab0d2b4a961e48afc897cfb4ca.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/1f926ee8483cee88c6363ceebf8de2a6/f8945ed14a4efa6d-7f/s2048x3072/353b52fd4fa4e2564f078849f35915f81fb400c3.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/270dd2f71fe3a687444e0dbf68cf8f7e/f8945ed14a4efa6d-68/s2048x3072/99c766fc7fe7a645cf6e53185cdcc13081065c65.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/270dd2f71fe3a687444e0dbf68cf8f7e/f8945ed14a4efa6d-68/s2048x3072/99c766fc7fe7a645cf6e53185cdcc13081065c65.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/13f4fd4debae766f2c097f5c4ca0ca39/f8945ed14a4efa6d-ff/s2048x3072/4ba73d0ed9a773b335dcb4d3a2572bb9dd1e3642.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/9f77a923be1b28e0d79c25117c52ce99/f8945ed14a4efa6d-1f/s2048x3072/73f1a335676bdfc608c7156c90c9640e99ff1266.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/8778c94394b84d88e351fbbb0512fb62/f8945ed14a4efa6d-e4/s2048x3072/56dd6dd89dc12861aee585b7e880c58578eeb887.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/5e4db92c9722478b81dcb259a8dc0ca1/f8945ed14a4efa6d-10/s2048x3072/c698f1e33e377d41a37fc6ab41aae049a4c652a0.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/701d30a363ab3215621bb0ae77b63598/f8945ed14a4efa6d-11/s2048x3072/12098733acf857245a23104df23620817fcd8c34.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/8bee26d1396b653990e9023ac0b94263/f8945ed14a4efa6d-b5/s2048x3072/d881ff048b7d36fb5a92e76c4d5c58dc7aea3713.jpg)

Discord Group Living Philosophy

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/dbd9a9c7d56158be4c40ccb5f7ff068d/3e6b2f0ccbaae01d-3f/s2048x3072/6f7fe4634c8404500c0777a8b18b334ab4998c3f.jpg)

Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 04, 2023, 08:50:38 pm
This is how the uniquely Western institution of compulsory schooling turns children into Westerners (who then believe the spread of compulsory schooling worldwide during the colonial era is something we should be thankful for).
Title: Faustian Philosophy
Post by: antihellenistic on January 04, 2023, 06:50:24 pm
Faustian attitude need to kill our original nobility which is sense of morality. Because it emphasize on survival rather than dualism.

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Psychodynamic therapy uses the idea of a Faustian bargain to explain defence mechanisms, usually rooted in childhood, that sacrifice elements of the self in favor of some form of psychological survival. For the neurotic, abandoning one's genuine feeling self in favour of a false self more amenable to caretakers may offer a viable form of life, but at the expense of one's true emotions and affects.[27] For the psychotic, a Faustian bargain with an omnipotent self can offer the imaginary refuge of a psychic retreat at the price of living in unreality.[28]

Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust#In_psychotherapy
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: guest98 on December 25, 2022, 02:43:58 pm
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The Nietzschean and other westerners's philosophist also embrace power, what's the difference between us and them on viewing power?

Spiritual power is  transcendence and wisdom. Also spiritual fire(fiery hatred expressed with one's whole being), of which jews/"whites" westerners are terrified of, especially if coming from a non "white".
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on December 24, 2022, 08:29:31 pm
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"Beware Cultural Marxism"

I guarantee you will only confuse people with this vocabulary. "Cultural Marxism" is what rightists call anti-racism.

I think the proper word will be Cultural Westernization
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on December 24, 2022, 08:26:57 pm
"Beware Cultural Marxism"

I guarantee you will only confuse people with this vocabulary. "Cultural Marxism" is what rightists call anti-racism.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on December 24, 2022, 08:22:06 pm
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Of course, because they are doing what Yahweh wants them to do! Yahweh always rewards those who listen to him. This is why we must not listen to him.

I don't think that communism were socialist, they can be considered as "illiberal democratic materialism", a society which try to achieve material egalitarianism which rely from enhancement of endless technological advancement. So, they will oppress the people who are not equal to western standards of material equality in the future. And the people who hardly to achieve material enhancement based on western standard like "colored" people will be the next target of attack by the communist. Beware the westerners (Include Japanese, and South Korea) and the Chinese Communism.

Beware Cultural Marxism
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on December 24, 2022, 07:45:52 pm
"And they proven to be success"

Of course, because they are doing what Yahweh wants them to do! Yahweh always rewards those who listen to him. This is why we must not listen to him.

"I more feel burnout and stress"

Of course, because you are doing what Yahweh does not want you to do! Yahweh always punishes those who defy him. This is why we must defy him.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on December 24, 2022, 07:32:14 pm
I'm being strong because I hate oppression, but I more feel burnout and stress rather than the people who being strong because they enjoy it and then betray me because I'm more concentrate to anything "unproductive" according to them like make communities for the oppressed. Because hate the world does not gain anything and being productive on material basis will solve our problem according to them.

And they proven to be success, what can we answer on their result?
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on December 24, 2022, 07:11:59 pm
Their view is that exchanging sensitivity for strength is a good thing:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/turanian-diffusion/msg14246/#msg14246

Our view is that sensitivity must never be sacrificed. This does not mean we do not try to become strong enough to defeat our enemies without sacrificing sensitivity. However, we must never enjoy this. We would prefer our enemies never to have existed in the first place.

Hatred is the key. It is the only state of mind that increases our strength while protecting our sensitivity at the same time, because it increases our strength for the sake of protecting our sensitivity:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-hate/msg10120/#msg10120
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on December 24, 2022, 06:41:32 pm
The Nietzschean and other westerners's philosophist also embrace power, what's the difference between us and them on viewing power? People who embrace power tend to like this world because they feel that they can live on this material world and think that their weakness and pessimism to this world are their sources of problem.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on December 24, 2022, 06:32:21 pm
"original condition like weakness and sensivity"

Weakness is not something we value. It was Yahweh who made us physically weak while we were sensitive (e.g. infancy), in order to make it as difficult as possible for us to physically defend our sensitivity. If it were up to us to decide, we would give infants the greatest physical strength. Therefore it is a tragedy to us that infants are physically weak in reality.

(https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/a/ayannapressley/946333/ayannapressley1-2x.jpg)
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: guest98 on December 24, 2022, 12:59:15 pm
I see Nietzscheanism as a response against the man which he classified as "human all too human", basically the modern man who is restrained in his instincts by current moral, social and societal norms. Nietzsche's ideal is basically the man of past ages who was more direct, unapologetic and unhypocritical in his quest for will to power. However the true noble ideal is to try to recover one's lost original nobility, although very difficult in this world. Especially in the west, with its suburban nuclear family sprawl. Add to that the internal divisions, the internal civil war produced by western democracy, with it's different political "tribes" always competing with each other for power.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: antihellenistic on December 24, 2022, 07:58:09 am
Seems Nietzscheanism worldview is like Homer, Faustian, and Darwinian worldview which emphasize human's potential and creativity rather than their original condition like weakness and sensivity, to achieve more joy and benefit from this material world. Correct me if I'm wrong....
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: rp on December 11, 2022, 08:42:41 pm
"One thing identitarians share with Nietzsche is dislike of Christianity. On the other hand, identitarians also dislike Judaism whereas Nietzsche liked Judaism. Indeed, identitarians dislike Judaism and Christianity for the same shallow xenophobic reason (both are of "non-European" origin) whereas Nietzsche at least bothered to distinguish between the content of the two, and considered Judaic values more compatible with the quest for the Overman (I agree with this, since the Overman is fundamentally a progressive ambition, and Judaism is also fundamentally progressive)."

This explains Spencer's view on space travel and Jews. Nietzsche would correctly identify Jews as being pro space travel since they are progressivists, and being a committed progressivist himself, he would have to acknowledge the progressivism of other progressivisists. Spencer, being an identitarian, must portray "non Europeans" as non progressives.

All this illustrates why identitarianism is not a serious ideology in the slightest.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on December 11, 2022, 08:40:29 pm
Schopenhauer's attitude towards Judaism is much better, and almost the same as the Gnostic attitude towards Judaism:

https://books.google.com/books?id=ebZIDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA327&lpg=PA327&dq=schopenhauer+judaism&source=bl&ots=sZz67AhHfX&sig=ACfU3U0HuyD167xaD75cmp_2SMS8Pnj16A&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=schopenhauer%20judaism&f=true

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Schopenhauer's gravitation into the belief that Judaism's fundamental monotheistic premises implicitly underlie and inspire most of the philosophies in the western philosophical tradition, the bulk of which he contrasts unfavorably with his own.
...
Schopenhauer's philosophical antagonism toward Judaism centers around his rejection of a God, held to be the creator of the world and of human free will, along with the belief that owing to our rationality and self-consciousness, human beings are significantly distinct in kind from, and superior to, all other living things.
...
The propositions that the world is an intelligent creation, that it is good, that humans are free, and that humans can rightly dominate over the animals, Schopenhauer attributes foundationally to the Book of Genesis, which he associates exclusively with Judaism.
...
Schopenhauer further criticizes Judaism as an "optimistic" religion as opposed to a "pessimistic" one. Optimistic religions, or outlooks, "present the existence of the world as justified by itself, and consequently praise it or commend it" (WWR II, 170), whereas pessimistic religions or outlooks conceive of the world as condemnable on moral grounds, and as something that ought not to be. Proud to refer to himself as a pessimist, Schopenhauer characterizes optimism as a morally insensitive position:

Still, I cannot hold back from declaring here that optimism...strikes me as not only an absurd, but even a truly wicked way of thinking, a bitter mockery of the unspeakable sufferings of humanity. Do not think for a moment that Christian doctrine is favourable to optimism; on the contrary, in the Gospels, 'world' and 'evil' are used almost as synonymous expressions. (WWR I, 352)

For that thousands had lived in happiness and joy would never do away with the anguish and death-agony of one individual; and just as little does my present well-being undo my previous sufferings.

The part in bold shows Schopenhauer's high opinion of Christianity, contrary to Nietzsche's low opinion. Both Schopenhauer and Nietzsche possessed highly accurate (and hence virtually identical) understandings of both Judaism and Christianity: it is purely their opposite personalities leading them to draw opposite conclusions about the two religions.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: 90sRetroFan on December 11, 2022, 06:39:23 pm
One thing identitarians share with Nietzsche is dislike of Christianity. On the other hand, identitarians also dislike Judaism whereas Nietzsche liked Judaism. Indeed, identitarians dislike Judaism and Christianity for the same shallow xenophobic reason (both are of "non-European" origin) whereas Nietzsche at least bothered to distinguish between the content of the two, and considered Judaic values more compatible with the quest for the Overman (I agree with this, since the Overman is fundamentally a progressive ambition, and Judaism is also fundamentally progressive).

https://newramblerreview.com/book-reviews/philosophy/nietzsche-s-hatred-of-jew-hatred

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Consider sec. 251 of Beyond Good and Evil, which Holub purports to discuss (114-115, 121-123, 161-162). Nietzsche here denounces various “stupidities” of the Germans, including “the anti-Jewish stupidity,” which he acknowledges being “infected” with at one time (a reference to his Wagnerian period). He notes that the Germans have “difficulty…coping with” the number of Jews they have, which reflects the,

instinct of a people [the Germans] whose type is still weak and indeterminate enough…to be easily obliterated by a stronger race. But the Jews are without a doubt the strongest, purest, most tenacious race living in Europe today. They know how to thrive in even the worst conditions….

The fact that the Jews, if they wanted (or if they were forced, as the anti-Semites seem to want), could already be dominant, or indeed could literally have control over present-day Europe—this is established. The fact that they are not working and making plans to this end is likewise established….[W]hat they wish and want instead…is to be absorbed and assimilated into Europe…in which case it might be practical and appropriate to throw the anti-Semitic hooligans out of the country….


This passage exemplifies Nietzsche’s typical contempt for Germans, and it stands all the standard anti-semitic tropes of the day on their head. Of course the Jews could control Europe, since they are a “stronger race,” but it is “established” that they have no interest in doing so! And precisely because they are superior to Germans, they should be allowed to assimilate, contrary to anti-semites, who are the ones who should really be thrown out of the country.
...
The Antichrist concludes with proposed “Laws against Christianity” including observations like, “One should be harsher with Protestants than with Catholics, harsher with liberal Protestants than with orthodox ones. The criminality of being Christian increases with your proximity to science” and the proposal that, “The execrable locations where Christianity brooded over its basilisk eggs should be razed to the ground…and [p]oisonous snakes should be bred on top of it.” In the second to last section of his autobiography Ecce Homo, Nietzsche writes that, “What sets me apart, what singles me out over and above the rest of humanity is the fact that I uncovered Christian morality….Blindness when it comes to Christianity is criminality par excellence—the crime against life.” Nietzsche never published anything comparably vitriolic about Judaism or synagogues. Holub, finally, admits that “Nietzche’s primary target… is undoubtedly Christianity” (190).
...
Nietzsche’s target is obviously not the religion or the adherents, but the values they embrace—the “ascetic” moralities (as he calls them in the Third Essay of the Genealogy) that denounce lust for sex, wealth, cruelty, and power

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzschean_Zionism

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Nietzschean Zionism was a movement arising from the influence that the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche had on Zionism and several of its influential thinkers.[1] Zionism was the movement for the attainment of freedom for the Jewish people through the establishment of a Jewish state.[2] Friedrich Nietzsche's philosophy was popular among Jewish intellectuals, incorporated into Zionism effortlessly.[3] Friedrich Nietzsche's influence was exigent on moving away from the Jewish past into an empowering future for the Hebraic New Man, the adoption of his ideas necessitating the Jews to surpass the antiquarian Jewish identity that had a rabbinical consciousness at its center.[1] The philosopher's influence on the Zionists can then be thought of as an existential revolution–that is, it focused on the renewal of the Jewish identity, the adoption of aesthetic values, and enhancing the will for life.[4]

As for the incompatibility between identitarianism and fascism, Romans considered anyone north of the Alps to be inferior barbarians, which no identitarians would agree with. (On the contrary, present-day Italian identitarians encourage northern Italians to consider themselves closer to French/Swiss/etc. than even to southern Italians, an attitude which Romans would surely consider incomprehensible.)
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: rp on December 11, 2022, 09:31:36 am
On another note, is Identitarianism even compatible with Nietzscheanism? I recall 90sRetroFan mentioning that Identitarianism and fascism are incompatible. To the extent that Nietzscheanism is fascism, I assume the same would apply.
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: rp on December 11, 2022, 08:26:36 am
Byzantium =/= Rome
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2022, 04:06:11 am
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The manly, Roman spirit is to be willing to give up a million years in the underworld for one last taste of life on earth.

Holy fucken ****, all types of prophecies I never even really believed in are coming true! Absolutely bizarre! These people's souls are so ****!
Title: Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: guest90 on December 11, 2022, 04:02:05 am
…. We’ve really got to reclaim Rome from them.
Title: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
Post by: rp on December 11, 2022, 12:47:47 am
https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/1257885407296909314
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Richard Spencer
@RichardBSpencer
Replying to
@Tom_Sunic
I recognize why Nietzsches hated Schopenhauer so much and felt he had to overcome him. The manly, Roman spirit is to be willing to give up a million years in the underworld for one last taste of life on earth.