True Left
History => Mythical World => Topic started by: 90sRetroFan on November 11, 2020, 10:31:11 pm
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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9oMG7gcBMec
Woke comments:
面 noodle or face
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/T65JXN/noodle-in-shape-of-smiley-face-curly-spaghetti-for-cooking-3d-illustration-T65JXN.jpg)
Taiwan was right to keep the original 🇹🇼
Keep looking at the above picture until you are convinced.
The simplified characters are not made up but derived from ancient writings and has a more direct historical connection with Cantonese than Mandarin.
This is also me with Japanese, a lot of Kanji retains the more Traditional Aspects of Chinese Characters (although Japan did went over its own simplification) I don’t like Simplified Chinese because there’s a lot of characters I’m like ??? For example 发、郁、叶、头、听 etc while their traditional in Japanese and Cantonese is 発/發、鬱、葉、頭 and 聴
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Japanese also uses a lot of “Cantonese Logic” for Characters for example 有 is to have or exist (Japanese uses the same 有る) and while they use a different character 無 for 冇 I find the logic really similar and I was actually surprised this isn’t a character in Japanese because both mean to not have or not exist, Mandarin doesn’t make that distinction I think and just uses 没有
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6utKPtf7fuw
Turanist comment:
Mandarin which become all China language and the world are also learning it.
Just like the new Chinese characters which are simplified and easy to write rather than the old one.
Cantonese are spoken by south east Chinese but it can't be a national because foreigners are making fun of Cantonese language. Maybe this guy doesn't know it.
But when foreigners hear Chinese talking in Mandarin most want to learn to speak it too.
Woke comments:
The irony is that Cantonese is far closer to what was spoken by Chinese of the Central Plains during the Tang Dynasty. Not Mandarin or Putonghua.
It seems to me that simplified characters serve the same purpose as Orwell's Newspeak in 1984: no one will be able to read anything written before the Revoilution.
That's why here in the Philippines, Filipino-Chinese Elders have disdainful attitude towards usage of Mandarin and Simplified Chinese Script
My family is from Suriname and the Chinese immigrants that came in the late 1800s and early 1900s all speak Cantonese. They have developed well within a shared Surinamese identity while keeping their original culture. The new Chinese immigrants all speak Mandarin and have not had a chance to integrate yet. You can definitely tell them apart!
When I went back to Shanghai this year totally unrecognisable. Most speak Mandarin. I thought at least some of the smaller mom/pop store and resturants would be Shanghainese... but NOPE. Mostly Mandarin.
What used to be Cantonese in Chinatown is now Mandarin busineses replacing cha chan tang and hk bbq with hot pot and szechuan restaurants. Even Chinatown evolves while I still reminisce about the 4 Gods of cantopop and old TVB shows my grandma recorded on VHS.
gosh I just love 80s and 90s Cantonese music so much! Growing up in Guangdong in the 90s before the return I remember Cantonese was seen as the cool kids' dialect. All the cool new movies and songs came out in Canto first.
80s and 90s Cantopop was my childhood! My parents loved it, bought so many CDs and played it all the time while they were working. But as I grew up, they did that less and less, a loss which I felt acutely 😢
Canto needs another HK like golden age of the 80s-early 2000s. I just don't see any other way.
The Hong Kong pop music scene from the 1980s-1990s were the best with great artists like Leon Lai, Aaron Kwok, Leslie Cheung, etc. But things that made HK great have fallen drastically since the 2000s and even worst nowadays in 2026.
Bonus duet (dual dialect lyrics):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTsEst0udMI
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Hokkien too:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DUxFvP9TYcw
Woke comment:
Mandarin is heavily influenced by the Mongolian invasion during the Yuan Dynasty and Manchurian invasion during the Qing Dynasty, the third last and last dynasties of Chinese history, so Mandarin is actually a late comer linguistically speaking.
And the inevitable Turanist response:
In terms of phonological evolution, Mandarin has been much more innovative and has changed a lot more than Southern dialects, making them further from the old pronunciations and hence Japanese pronunciations (e.g. palitalisation, 今 k > j).
::)
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Continuing from:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/yandi-vs-huangdi-myth-confirmed/msg17310/#msg17310
Another comparison (skip directly to 3:18 to avoid the preamble):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fhtw1w_Reo
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"Prometheus (who presents as considering cruelty to animals a bad thing) worsens the confusion by adding the claim that pastoralists are better for animals than agrarians are (which is why I don't believe he actually cares about animals)."
This is actually a common talking point, believe it or not. I have seen many Western ranchers claim the same, i.e. that they "take care" of their livestock and "give them a good life", etc.
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"Manju Baturp (who considers cruelty to animals a good thing) is just doing his usual routine of trying to encourage "New Chinese" to be proud of their worst traits.
Prometheus (who presents as considering cruelty to animals a bad thing) worsens the confusion by adding the claim that pastoralists are better for animals than agrarians are (which is why I don't believe he actually cares about animals).
Ice Age Autist (who also considers cruelty to animals a good thing) at least helps undo the confusion added by Prometheus."
Prometheus is an "Aryan" larper (similar to Bronze Age Pervert) i.e. a Turanist, but who pretends to care about animals, and probably quotes Schopenhauer, which is what the original tweet calls him out for , along with Li Shuo, by referencing actual Schopenhauer quotes showing how Chinese did care for animals, contrary to what Shuo and Prometheus claim (which Shuo and Prometheus both agree on (i.e. that Chinese do not care for animals), only disagreeing on the why this is the case (Prometheus argues Aryan blood, Shuo probably argues Turanian blood). The original tweeter however does not refute Prometheus's claim on agrarianism vs pastoralism, which is why I posted IceAgeAutist's tweet that corrects him.
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Manju Baturp (who considers cruelty to animals a good thing) is just doing his usual routine of trying to encourage "New Chinese" to be proud of their worst traits.
Prometheus (who presents as considering cruelty to animals a bad thing) worsens the confusion by adding the claim that pastoralists are better for animals than agrarians are (which is why I don't believe he actually cares about animals).
Ice Age Autist (who also considers cruelty to animals a good thing) at least helps undo the confusion added by Prometheus.
It should be noted Jurchens are northern themselves, albeit from the part of the north with at least some arable land as mentioned in the first post of this topic. Culturally they are a hodgepodge:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurchen_people
Jurchen (Manchu: ᠵᡠᡧᡝᠨ Jušen, IPA: [dʒuʃən]; Chinese: 女真, Nǚzhēn [nỳ.ʈʂə́n]) is a term used to collectively describe a number of East Asian Tungusic-speaking people.[a] They lived in northeastern China, also known as Manchuria, before the 18th century. The Jurchens were renamed Manchus in 1635 by Hong Taiji.[6] Different Jurchen groups lived as hunter-gatherers, pastoralist semi-nomads, or sedentary agriculturists.
As usual, the bad attitudes mostly predominated:
Like the Khitan people and Mongols, they took pride in feats of strength, horsemanship, archery, and hunting.
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The Qing stationed the "New Manchu" Warka foragers in Ningguta and attempted to turn them into normal agricultural farmers but then the Warka just reverted to hunter gathering and requested money to buy cattle for beef broth. The Qing wanted the Warka to become soldier-farmers and imposed this on them, but the Warka simply left their garrison at Ningguta and went back to the Sungari to their homes to herd, fish and hunt. The Qing accused them of desertion.[117]
The Qing at least had some good intentions. The same cannot be said of Manju Baturo.
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https://x.com/Rjrasva/status/1782707743272394914?t=RZMwJ2IFnmRnFda2xAO0pQ&s=19
Manchu larper (Li Shuo is most likely a peasant from Shandong whose ancestors migrated to Manchuria in late 19th cent) & "Aryan" larper both bringing hilarity. Schopenhauer on situation of animals in his day in Europe
& until early 20th cent Chinese had
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GL1yI1SXkAAzSCn?format=png&name=900x900)
https://x.com/CaribbeanRythms/status/1782404039231131683?t=Un1t-bdiGaZQP_RlkuNBkg&s=19
Chinese lack of empathy is attributed to their agrarian upbringing, contrasting with superior pastoral cultures where animals were essential for survival and required care to produce quality milk and meat.
Your natural diet is rice and grain not meat.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLxfBV3WgAEV4Qg?format=jpg&name=medium)
https://x.com/Rjrasva/status/1782708824866000904?t=rY57QauqQjAGZez1GnyQzw&s=19
a strong taboo against beef (including male buffaloes), especially in southern China. To quote Mao on this
books.google.com/books?id=RW4YD…
This is because oxen helped the Chinese peasant plough & came to be seen as family. The 2 groups most strongly associated with beef in 19th cent Qing
I disagree with the negative use of the word "peasant" but agree with the other points. To give some context, he is referring to a quoted tweet inside his quoted tweet from "New Chinese" progressive (and noted enemy on this forum) Manju Barturo (real name Li Shuo) where he is exalting animal cruelty.
Good replies to the quoted tweet from CarribeanRhythms:
https://x.com/Airmanareiks/status/1782734055403917682?t=WRJ2DTV_C_F6fTbdd5IYsA&s=19
We used to parade mass killing of animals in medieval hunting festivals, trying to claim as many heads as possible
Also, higher testosterone correlates with LESS empathy. So Pastoralists much have enjoyed dominating animals & increasing their suffering to drag out their products
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https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/s03g3y/east_asian_culture_is_the_least_patriarchal_and/
Edit: this is applicable to the main population centers of east Asia.
The more north you go, the more nomadic and less this applies. The more
south you go, the more agrarian, developed and where "overt masculinity"
is less encouraged. The propaganda against asian men is based on the
more "southern" stereotype of east asians. Masculinity is very much
still promoted in places like Mongolia, vs. a place like Thailand, for
example.
Of course!
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/turanian-sexism/
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https://x.com/Rjrasva/status/1816640720368713814?t=5zdc9NrjMa2nkLQu2M5org&s=19
https://x.com/ulmuka_/status/1815317451187310847?t=FT8tniLQy42DjMAhI40Avg&s=19…
These Han cattle protection associations existed well into 20th cent, as the Mohammedans were decimated while putting down their jihads their focus shifted to targeting the townsmen who dared eat beef
Mao wrote about this phenomenon
books.google.com/books?id=RW4YD…
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTYAitCWQAAlRCM?format=png&name=small)
Qing China also has Gau-rakshak groups, these groups quickly became a parallel govt overtime, settling disputes and engaging in all kinds of wanton behaviour
Leaders moved about with Entourages better than local Qing bureaucrats,who feared dealing with them
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTFNlIUaEAA1vbL?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTYAitCWQAAlRCM?format=png&name=small)
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https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/16ao5rt/obesity_rates_in_china_by_province_men_above/
Can confirm, don't know why. People in the north tend to be bulkier and put on more weight.
Maybe it's because of Mongol blood in them?
The amount of meat people eat goes up as you go north. In the Guangdong, when you eat at home meat is almost like a condiment. Then when you go up to Shanghai, you get pieces of meat in sweet sauce, then you go up to Beijing and eating kebabs is a huge thing, PLUS they have a big drinking culture, then you go up to Harbin, and it's super cold and there's a big Russian influence, so the food (while fantastic!) can be very heavy.
Today, you could eat heavy food in the south thanks to air conditioning, but south China has been settled for thousands of years, thus the cuisine adapted to the thousands of years without air conditioning in the hot, humid climate, thus light foods, which is still often the case in rural China.
For most of human history, the only way you were eating meat on a DAILY basis, was you were physically hunting down wild animals. Either that, or Mongol-style nomads, relying mostly on meat but you herded enough cattle to feed yourself regularly. For the average subsistence farmer, meat was an occasional thing. Fish and seafood if you were close to an ocean or big river, but you simply didn't have enough animals to eat meat everyday.
Northern Chinese here.
As said before somewhere here:
Genetics definitely play a role. Southerners can be skinny on a different level to us. We call their look "bones covered by skin"... Somehow they often don't have much meat. Genetically they are closer to Vietnamese often than to us.
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My particular culture from northern china is ... I'd say is bit like Russia. Very machismo, very loud and brash. Not very delicate. I guess the Mongols influenced us all.
North-west are Turkic ethnicity and I know from Turkish ppl they love "round women"
Nobody in South China wants a fat girl, I know from having lived there.
Yes, in Guangdong 50 kilos is fat!
Another map I found:
(https://cdn.farmjournal.com/s3fs-public/inline-images/Production_China.JPG)
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"I agree. Just don't use the above meme to do it! (Even more absurdly, the supposedly "rugged" skull is drawn to be less robust than the supposedly "delicate".....)"
Yeah, I disagreed with the Jack Ma reference but brushed it aside due to the other good points in the meme. However, I realize now that the drawings themselves are inaccurate.
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Does this look "delicate" to you?
(https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/605e22fe6df966b3fcbd3e15/0x0.jpg?format=jpg&crop=1080,1080,x0,y0,safe&height=416&width=416&fit=bounds)
And Ma is hardly "introverted" either:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ma
He became interested in English as a young boy and began practicing with English speakers in the Hangzhou International Hotel.
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For nine years, Ma rode 27 km (17 miles) on his bicycle every day to work as a tour guide of Hangzhou for foreigners in order to practice his English. He became pen pals with one of those foreigners, who nicknamed him "Jack" because he found it hard to pronounce his Chinese name.[17]
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In 1980, while he was riding his bike to practice English with tourists, he met Ken Morley, who was traveling with his family with the Australia-China Friendship Society.[18] Ken's son, David, became pen pals with Ma and kept in touch after the family left China. Years later, the Morleys hosted Ma in Australia, changing the course of his life completely.
"Promoting southern Chinese (and even Vietnamese) culture would also be a good way to improve Sino-Indian relations."
I agree. Just don't use the above meme to do it! (Even more absurdly, the supposedly "rugged" skull is drawn to be less robust than the supposedly "delicate".....)
Your old example (Ip Man vs Jin Shanzhao from the Ip Man movie) was better:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg12863/#msg12863
Yen in real-life is from Guangdong, whereas Fan in real-life is from Shandong.
Heck, let's look at the real-life Ip (also from Guangdong):
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/yip-man-21370115-1-402.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7f/9a/d3/7f9ad30588b6a9c738f11519b6f74651.jpg)
This is what we want people visualizing as the archetypical Yue skeleton.
See also:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/aryan-bones/
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(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:558/0*UPxYCqG0_mAnYOMr.jpg)
Promoting southern Chinese (and even Vietnamese) culture would also be a good way to improve Sino-Indian relations. For example, the prominence of Buddhism in Vietnam shows an alternative to the atheistic, materialistic, aggressiveness of the CCP mainland culture. I have even heard some Indians, who speak negatively of Chinese mainlanders, will speak positively about Vietnamese.
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I sincerely hope it is because of the former, which would mean recovery is possible (though it has not happened yet: https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/media-decolonization/msg16303/#msg16303 ). But even in the hypothetical event of recovery, I still predict northern musical inferiority. South Korea has never gone through communist suppression and Kpop is still the worst music in the world.
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For the record, 0% of the songs I have posted here:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/recommended-music-to-listen-to/
are mainland. 100% of the Chinese language songs are from Taiwan/Hong Kong/Singapore/Malaysia.
But don't you think this has more to do with China's history of Maoist Communism suppressing art and expression rather than the inferiority of mainlanders themselves?
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Mainstream journalism coverage!
https://us.yahoo.com/lifestyle/china-not-just-one-entity-132723370.html
Although little-known in the west, China’s Jiangnan region has played a pivotal role in thousands of years of the country’s history.
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China’s Southern Paradise offers audiences an important opportunity to see sides of China rarely seen in the west. “China is not just one entity, in terms of climate, geography, language, ethnicity,” said Von Spee.
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The show travels all the way back to Neolithic times to exhibit grains of rice recovered from Tianluoshan, an ancient site that was discovered in the early 2000s, and that scientists believe was inhabited as far back at 7,000BC. Believed to be among the first rice cultivated anywhere on Earth
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From the stone age forward, China’s Southern Paradise covers multiple eras of Jiangnan’s history, corresponding with waves of migration that hit the region. Highlights include a rubbing of the Eulogy for Burying a Crane, an inscription in rock that dates to 6th century AD, and that has come to be known as one of the foremost masterpieces of Chinese calligraphy. It has inspired countless scholars to try to understand its eccentric memorial to the death of a beloved crane.
Only anthropocentrists would have trouble understanding something so self-explanatory. Here is also a wuxia song about cranes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqAOkg9DlK0
Von Spee said she hopes shows such as China’s Southern Paradise will help to reduce tensions between China and the United States.
I hope so too! See also:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/china-and-united-states-relations/
Continuing:
Especially now, as the US and China have a strained relationship, culture is our resource to transcend this tension. There’s nothing better than having an exhibition that counters biased ideas.
Such as the uniquely Western absurdity of classifying bloodlines of Hainan as "Mongoloid":
(https://geology.com/world/china-map.gif)
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I was looking at a map of tropical climate regions in the world, and I saw Hainan. So I searched for Hainan food on YouTube, and I got this video.:
https://youtu.be/ow_266XT7yA
Notice how none of the dishes she mentioned has meat. Granted this is just one video, but still.
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Yes, had there been no Turanian diffusion into China, we should still expect a clinal increase in robustness moving north within China due to temperature differences alone:
(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hong-Qian-6/publication/234331772/figure/fig1/AS:425181551304712@1478382589882/Observed-and-simulated-vegetation-of-east-Asia-during-the-Last-Glacial-Maximum-and-today.png)
but to a lesser extent. The reason why it is as pronounced as it is in reality is because the Turanians came in from even further north.
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So the Northern Chinese have more Turanian blood. But I also recall you mentioned elsewhere that they have more Ice-Age Gentile ancestry. I assume you were referring not to the Turanian ancestry (which is post Ice-Age) but the Gentile ancestry, correct?
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Our enemies are noticing it too:
https://incels.is/threads/why-do-mainland-chinese-guys-have-bigger-jaws-mog-taiwanese-overseas-chinese.405888/
Based on street interviews and pics, Mainland males have much more robust faces (wider midface, bigger jaw and more bone definition) than Taiwanese/Singaporean men. I am really confused as to what caused this; does being born in Mainland China automatically make you robust?
Tofu eater
Mainland chinese eating more pig meat than the taiwanese
Probably more northerners in Mainland china
It's just North Chinese vs South Chinese. South Chinese are subhumans mixed with abos and orang utans.
Its well known that Northern Han Chinese are usually taller and more robust. I swear man I've seen plenty of northern Chinese foid students over the years here in SF. They are Berkeley and Stanford students and its not uncommon to see that some of them are 5'7. Fuckin moggers for sure. Legit noodle stacies. They even mog most white foids imo with the exception of 5'6 to 5'7 young, blonde, slim white foids.
Meanwhile, the Cantonese southern Chinese are all mostly ugly, short, and ectomorph compared to them. This is because on the matrilineal side, a lot of Cantonese have aboriginal DNA, I think I read it was somewhere as high as 40% of Cantonese foids are of aboriginal origin. The Yue as they were called. Closely related to the Vietnamese, austronesian groups, and the Zhuang (Tai speaking linguistic group). Thats why a lot of Cantonese have a monkey faced SEA vietnamese look to them.
Southern Chinese are not only shorter, but much more likely to be ectomorph. Skinny arms, skinny wrists, small hands, skinny fingers.
More mongol/jurchen/nomad **** baby blood -> stronger Jaws
For the record, 0% of the songs I have posted here:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/recommended-music-to-listen-to/
are mainland. 100% of the Chinese language songs are from Taiwan/Hong Kong/Singapore/Malaysia.
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I academically agree with the following reconstruction of what Confucius looked like:
(https://mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/archive/z1qNuaR2FI42S0HP964Y_1082085945.jpeg)
(https://i.huffpost.com/gen/448809/ZHANG-HUAN.jpg)
(https://arrestedmotion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/bustdamp.jpg)
It is consistent with ancient portrayals:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Confucius_Tang_Dynasty.jpg)
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/HN3JHK/painting-of-confucius-china-HN3JHK.jpg)
Contrast with ancient portrayal of arch-anti-Confucianist Mozi:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%84_%D0%9C%D0%BE-%D0%A6%D0%B7%D1%8B.jpg/600px-%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%84_%D0%9C%D0%BE-%D0%A6%D0%B7%D1%8B.jpg)
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https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Output-and-price-of-beef-and-sheep-meat-in-different-regions-of-China-mainland-Note-A_fig4_301814457
(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Yanwei-Mao/publication/301814457/figure/fig4/AS:357890515849218@1462339156263/Output-and-price-of-beef-and-sheep-meat-in-different-regions-of-China-mainland-Note-A.png)
Output and price of beef and sheep meat in different regions of China mainland. Note: A = output beef, B = price of beef, C = output of sheep meat and D = price of sheep meat.
Firstly, using the same colour scale for B/D as for A/C is an awful presentational decision.
With that out of the way, we can deduce some things from these maps. In general, the lower (bluer) the output, the higher (redder) we would expect the price to be just going on the principle of supply and demand. Therefore, if a province with lower output nevertheless has a lower price than another province with a higher output, we could guess that the former has higher-quality people on average.
For example, looking at C and D, Guangdong has the lowest sheep meat output. Neighbouring Fujian (and to a lesser extent Jiangxi), despite higher output, has higher price, meaning inferior people. Hunan, having the same output, also has a higher price, hence also inferior people (but better than Jiangxi). And so on.
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"Is it possible that the Shennongshi were non-Chinese, both ethnically and linguistically?"
Strictly speaking, no one was Chinese prior to the Qin dynasty which standardized the Chinese language.
"Would you personally describe them as non-Chinese?"
No, I want them to consider the Huaxia as less Chinese than themselves.
"Yue only became Chinese after the Han assimilated them."
Qin had already expanded into Yue:
(https://mediakron.bc.edu/files/globalart/styles/full/public/globalart_E0Shq4.jpg)
but Qin and Han were ideologically opposed (anti-Confucianist vs pro-Confucianist), and residual discomfort with Han culture remained in former Yue territories even after the Han dynasty, as mentioned here:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/yandi-vs-huangdi-myth-confirmed/msg12889/#msg12889
It has been noted that Cantonese culture is traditionally marked by a "culture of distance from Confucius" (Jyutping: Jyun5 jyu4 man4 faa3; Traditional Chinese: 遠儒文化, literally "culture of distance from Confucius"),[49] which may be related to Lingnan historically being a fringe region of the Chinese Empire and influence from Tang dynasty (who placed greater emphasis on Taoism and Buddhism than Confucianism): While Confucian philosophy still has its deep influence on Cantonese culture, Confucius Temples are harder to find in Lingnan than Buddhist or Taoist ones.
so it could be argued that Yue is a more valid successor to Qin (and hence China) than Han ever was.
'it would make more sense to call the historical Yue Vietnamese ("Yue" and "Viet" are cognates after all,"
"Vietnam" literally means "South of Yue". Saying the Yue were Vietnamese would be saying they were south of themselves, which makes no sense. I agree, however, that Yue should feel closer to Vietnamese than to Han (let alone the further Turanized versions after the Yuan dynasty!).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNPaJF2_7Q
"Shennong is labeled as a mythical Chinese leader"
I do not have a problem with this. It is the more Turanized whose Chineseness should be more suspect, considering that the categorical Qin conception of China was to infrastructurally incorporate the Yue (hence the Lingqu):
(https://d3i71xaburhd42.cloudfront.net/19fb88385d86138bafaee13ab09ee4ea21a27907/30-Figure1.1-1.png)
but exclude the Xiongnu (hence the Great Wall):
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/02/be/9f02be0efac299f4afdf28a5ee120723.jpg)
It was only the Han who disliked the Yue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue#Culture
The Han also said their language was "animal shrieking"
Nothing has changed, by the way:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-version-tiktok-reportedly-judges-090719443.html
China’s version of TikTok reportedly judges Cantonese ‘unrecognizable’
;D
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@90sRetroFan Is it possible that the Shennongshi were non-Chinese, both ethnically and linguistically? Would you personally describe them as non-Chinese? The Aryan Diffusion series mentions the southern Yue being superior to the northern Huaxia/Han, but as far as I can tell, the Yue only became Chinese after the Han assimilated them. From this angle, it would make more sense to call the historical Yue Vietnamese ("Yue" and "Viet" are cognates after all, and the Vietnamese also happen to consider "Thần Nông" one of their ancestors and culture founders), than it would be to call them Chinese. Labeling them as Vietnamese would be a massive oversimplification since the Hundred Yue appear to have been pretty diverse ethnically, linguistically, and even racially (the Yue are described as barbarian animists on the one hand and peaceful rice farmers on the other), but it's just for the sake of argument.
I just wish that there was more clarification on the specific identity of the Shennongshi, because even though ethnicity and language mean very little to us, it gets kind of confusing the more I look into the topic. And it might be even more confusing for the average Joe who stumbles upon our website. Shennong is labeled as a mythical Chinese leader in pretty much every article about him that I can find online, and part 2 of our Aryan Diffusion series centers itself around China, but that might not necessarily be the case. What are your thoughts on the issue? I think that the article about Aryan diffusion into Europe does a good job of clarifying that all Aryan influence in Europe ultimately derives from Anatolia, even though "Anatolian" isn't very specific either, so it has its own issues. It's just that the article on China seems to have less clarification
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https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202208/1274300.shtml
Hemudu Culture: Ancient farmers who enjoyed peace and bounty
Stretching along the lower reaches of the Yangtze River, the Hemudu Culture dates back to the Neolithic Period 7,000 years ago. The culture gained its name from where it was first discovered - Hemudu in Yuyao, East China's Zhejiang Province.
In the documents recorded and preserved in the Hemudu Cultural Site Museum in Zhejiang, archaeologists described the culture as "ancestors who knew how to enjoy their lives."
Archaeologists believe that the people of Hemudu lived a rather peaceful and comfortable life as no signs of fierce conflicts or lack of food were found during the excavation.
"These ancestors from 7,000 years ago already knew how to live an exquisite life along the Yangtze River," researchers wrote in the Hemudu Culture Catalog collected in the museum in Yuyao.
"They were a group who desired sun and sky, without worrying about food or war."
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It overturned the traditional view of "Yellow River Centralism," the idea that ancient Chinese civilization mainly radiated out from its center around the Yellow River. Instead, a large and mature culture was discovered along another major river, opening a window to the Neolithic history of southern China.
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"The problem with Ip Man 1 is that it makes it appear as though Chinese nationalism requires being anti-Japanese"
I agree. Only the first half on the film was good because it avoided the anti-Japanese theme and the main villain was a Northerner. It even took a slight jab at the Westernized (progressivist) attitudes prevalent in China at that time. In one scene, for example, the police officer Captain Li says "why are you guys still talking about Kung Fu? Nowadays, it's all about guns!".
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"I do not like the way they worded it using preservationist language."
Neither do I. Which is why I didn't quote those parts.
"I recall on Aryanism you mentioned we should not be linguistic supremacists"
I mean we shouldn't claim that one language family is superior to all others:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family
We should, however, compare between different lineages within the same language family, as was also done here, for example:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-degendering/msg6261/#msg6261
This is no different than our racial attitude of never claiming one ethnicity to be superior to all others, but judging superiority and inferiority of bloodlines within each ethnicity. (In both domains, anti-Turanian attitudes are encouraged.)
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-degendering/msg8791/#msg8791
"Ip-Man"
The problem with Ip Man 1 is that it makes it appear as though Chinese nationalism requires being anti-Japanese, which is stupid. I prefer Ip Man 2 which concentrates on anti-British sentiment. In tackling the issue of Japan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fearless_(2006_film)
is more to my liking as it makes it clear that anti-Western Japanese are fine, and it is solely pro-Western Japanese who are the problem.
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I was just thinking about how remarkable the differences were between Cantonese and Mandarin are yesterday after watching Ip-Man, and here I see this article on twitter today. After watching the film, I felt that Cantonese represented a more "authentic" side of China not usually known to those living in the West. Add to this the fact that Westerners' first choice of dialect is Mandarin when attempting to show off their "Chinese-ness". Seriously, go on youtube and you will find tons of "Whites" (including Jews) showing off their Mandarin in an attempt to pass off as "experts" in Chinese culture.
However, regarding the article, I do not like the way they worded it using preservationist language. Or would you make an exception for this language?
More importantly, I recall on Aryanism you mentioned we should not be linguistic supremacists, or would you make an exception in this case since the original speakers are identifiably Turanian?
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/quest-save-cantonese-world-dominated-123003051.html
As efforts began to save Cantonese at Stanford, the language remained under threat worldwide.
It is being swamped by Mandarin, the official language of more than 1 billion people in China and Taiwan — as different from Cantonese as Spanish is from French.
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Mandarin’s four tones are enough to flummox English speakers. For example, depending on the inflection, "ma" can mean "mother," "numb," "horse" or "yell at."
With nine tones, Cantonese is even more challenging to learn. Scholars say it is closer to ancient Chinese than Mandarin is — a Tang Dynasty poem would sound more like the original if read in Cantonese.
This is what I have been saying all along. Mandarin is Turanized Chinese:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Mandarin
Old Mandarin or Early Mandarin was the speech of northern China during the Jurchen-ruled Jin dynasty and the Mongol-led Yuan dynasty (12th to 14th centuries).
Cantonese is Aryan Chinese:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese
It is the traditional prestige variety of the Yue Chinese dialect group, which has over 80 million native speakers.[1] While the term Cantonese specifically refers to the prestige variety, it is often used to refer to the entire Yue subgroup of Chinese
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)
Prestige varieties are language or dialect families which are generally considered by a society to be the most "correct" or otherwise superior.
Related:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg12527/#msg12527
Northern Chinese are a mix of early Han, Turkic peoples, Mongols, Koreans, Tibetans and some other mostly nomadic tribes which disappeared into the Han melting pot.
Southern Chinese were not nomadic, lived in a more mountainous region, and were mostly involved in rice cultivation.
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Stronger alcohol drinking culture: The Chinese from Northeast China (Jilin, Heilongjiang, Liaoning) especially like to drink a lot alcoholic drinks like the Russians or the Koreans do.
Heavier and more robust food: Compared to Chinese food from Southern China, Chinese food from Northern China tends to be greasier, heavier on the stomach, saltier, and more robust in flavour. More meats and less vegetables are featured on Northern Chinese food.
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Stronger tea drinking culture: Southern Chinese people, especially Chinese people from Chaozhou region of China and Fujian region of China, tend to drink a lot more tea than Northern Chinese people. Chinese statistic said that Chinese people from Chaozhou region of China consume the most tea per capita compared to the other Chinese from other regions of China.
Lighter and more delicate food: As opposed to Northern Chinese food, Southern Chinese food tends to be less greasy, lighter on the stomach, less salty, and more delicate in flavour. More vegetables are featured on Southern Chinese food because vegetables could grow better in Southern China than in Northern China.
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/china-and-united-states-relations/msg12716/#msg12716
It has been noted that Cantonese culture is traditionally marked by a "culture of distance from Confucius" (Jyutping: Jyun5 jyu4 man4 faa3; Traditional Chinese: 遠儒文化, literally "culture of distance from Confucius"),[49] which may be related to Lingnan historically being a fringe region of the Chinese Empire and influence from Tang dynasty (who placed greater emphasis on Taoism and Buddhism than Confucianism): While Confucian philosophy still has its deep influence on Cantonese culture, Confucius Temples are harder to find in Lingnan than Buddhist or Taoist ones.
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https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/neolithic-cabin-fragments-discovered-china-baodun-1234595480/
Fragments of 4,500-Year-Old Neolithic Cabin Discovered in Southwest China
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The carbonized bamboo fragments may have once belonged to a house from the Baodun culture (2700 B.C.E.–1700 B.C.E.), a Neolithic settlement in the Yangtze River area. Because Baodun is the earliest known mass settlement on the Chendu Plain, it has been a source of fascination among Chinese archaeologists, who believe it challenges the long-held notion that the Yellow River Valley was the sole origin of ancient civilization in the country. Past research has shown that inhabitants grew rice and foxtail millet, and were responsible for the earliest known form of rice cultivation on the Chengdu Plain.
Baodun houses were constructed using the wattle-and-daub method, which involves wooden frames and earthen walls. In this case, however, the frames were bamboo, and the walls were made from mud. Tang Miao, deputy head of the Baodun Project, told ECNS that “the discovery has directly proved the existence of the bamboo-mud wall.”
For reference, bamboo habitat worldwide:
(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Manal-Anis/publication/333531438/figure/fig1/AS:764835730055168@1559362456037/Global-Natural-Bamboo-Habitat-Source-National-Geographic-1980.jpg)
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Latest:
https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/374225/neolithic-escalon-man-discovered-in-surigao/
“The Escalon Man significantly provides human skeletal evidence of the Austronesians whose amazing navigation feat based on indigenous knowledge of astronomy using wooden outriggered boats in coming and going led to the peopling of the Philippines, Island Southeast Asia, all the way to Polynesia,” he added.
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Agriculturist
Results from radiocarbon and mitochondrial DNA analyses, according to the researchers, “indicated that the Escalon Man belongs to the haplogroup E1a1a, which is known to be the marker of Austronesian-speaking agriculturist populations that originated in Taiwan and spread southward through the Philippines to the Western Pacific, since about 4000 BP.”
They said this type is less diverse in the Philippines and in the Sulawesi Islands, which suggests its movement during the postglacial period.
The study also indicated that the Escalon Man is taller than the Aeta, Mamanwa and Negrito people who arrived in the country during the late Paleolithic area, which is about 50,000 to 10,000 years ago.
It also noted that the Escalon Man is a farmer and not a hunter-gatherer and theorized it to be the ancestors of Mindanao groups, notably the Manobo.
I told you so.
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OLD CONTENT
phys.org/news/2020-05-ancient-dna-unveils-important-piece.html
Newly released genomes from Neolithic East Asia have unveiled a missing piece of human prehistory, according to a study conducted by Prof. Fu Qiaomei's team from the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology (IVPP) of the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
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The scientists also found that Early Neolithic East Asians were more genetically differentiated from each other than present-day East Asians are. In early Neolithic East Asia since 9,500 BP, a northern ancestry existed along the Yellow River and up into the eastern steppes of Siberia, distinct from a southern ancestry that existed along the coast of the southern Chinese mainland and islands in the Taiwan Strait since 8,400 BP.
I told you Huangdi was:
1) not Shennongshi
2) Turanian
Population movement may have already started impacting East Asians by the Late Neolithic. For example, the Late Neolithic southern East Asians may have shared a connection to coastal northern East Asians and the former's ancestry may have extended north as well.
Yes, because while most of the best arable land in China is in the south, there is also some in the northeast, so Aryan diffusion to the northeast via a sea route would have been sensible:
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Iro-RuFyUi0/VTRKLBDFpzI/AAAAAAAAAUw/g9MsuKO5xcs/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/map_first-grade-arable-land_1%2B(1).gif)
(This would be consistent with, thousands of years later, the superiority of the (coastal northern origin) Qing dynasty compared to the (inland northern origin) Yuan dynasty.)
The North-South racial soul divergence also emerges in art:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_School
According to William Watson, while the Northern School contains "the painters who favour clear, emphatic structure in their compositions, with the use of explicit perspective devices", the Southern School "cultivate a more intimate style of landscape bathed in cloud and mist, in which pleasing calligraphic forms tend to take the place of conventions established for the representation of rocks, trees, etc. The painter of the Southern School was interested in distant effects, but his colleague of the Northern School paid more attention to the devices of composition which achieve the illusion of recession, and at the same time more attentive to close realism of detail. ... some artists hover between the two".[3] A more philosophical distinction is that the Southern School painters "were thought to have sought the inner realities and expressed their own lofty natures" while the Northern "painted only the outward appearance of things, the worldly and decorative".[4]