True Left
Politics => Questions & Debates => Topic started by: guest30 on April 04, 2022, 11:21:43 pm
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Chinese people in my homeland behave like Jews and Westerners, they work, make more money from their business, but the money immediately send to their families who are live in Mainland China, so they not honestly to pay taxes to nation which amount is in accordance with the amount of revenue which they originally got.
They also people who are mostly live with Western value and way of life, that is liberalism, capitalism, and exclusivism. They live with money abundance but they keep it for themselves, not to donate to the society and the government. And also they live with Western-style building, housing area, languages and also their clothes, they tend to speak English colonial language even tough the society around them is using Nusantara language. Here is the example :
1. Pantai Indah Kapuk 2, North Jakarta, house complex of majority Chinese people, it's shopping complex using Western colonial era architecture
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/6d8d901a4fdd28dc23f74f0b4f498d25/ae10d8982e8eeb89-6f/s2048x3072/9ee30885f282dbf34c7aa19a578f05f8ffaa0328.jpg)
2. Pantai Indah Kapuk 2, North Jakarta. Chinese people using foreign language on their stores, English colonial language and also Chinese language
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/e176e0833850086117a6a9f54460b73a/89aaa0239a245ad4-fb/s2048x3072/2cbe6929f238e10c7cc78a5c257b7c463bef8ed2.jpg)
3. Pantai Gading, East Jakarta. Chinese people make their shopping store from Western shape architecture, with Chinese and English colonial language
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/9b34a352990801431fc87b5c1edb548e/f09d7bcde87de13e-88/s2048x3072/7ced7c3450844689e9434082bc5f0d70b95a35f7.jpg)
4. Pantai Gading, East Jakarta. Chinese people make their shopping store and apartments from Western shape architecture
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/22707b93ea74970ea5b2261e06d3d6fc/d89f0db1ddbc7089-45/s2048x3072/2ae675fb41a44cdae5bf968e2a05cb891e52d6da.jpg)
So, discussing the problem of Western Civilization is not only to the "whites", but also to the "non-whites" who are more embracing Western values rather than anti-Western values. And also, Chinese people in Nusantara like to live in near-sea place like coast. So they can immediately accept the fellow Chinese immigrants who are come from Mainland China without integrating them into Nusantara anti-Western way of live and values. Even some of Chinese immigrants were hidden Communist and secret China soldiers masquerade as a worker immigrant.
Chinese people's formal clothes in Nusantara
1. Instagram account named @bellaapriliasant
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/c74cf0b0328e0f1822bf3f979a509b79/2b8f673f9d384f94-03/s1280x1920/d20accf4e31a3f3c4be3fe2683c3a172c269a589.png)
2. Instagram account named @michellewanda
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/dab325a6d8432ee448c9ed3788bba86a/298de8c3b8e14ee9-ad/s2048x3072/ed7d1048eb52df31e6a9331ab1523b4ad52785ac.png)
The words marked by red circle shows her speaks on Nusantara language, so she speak Nusantara language for showing and promote her Western style party to the Nusantarans audience
3. Instagram account named @arnoldpo
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/e5a251cbc69ad9a95f971594c2002f59/fb8241371c987f5c-fd/s2048x3072/930cafcfe0c50fafc10333b42b72bc58b47dca3a.png)
The writings of comments which marked by red line show that he promote his formal activity photo to the Nusantara's Instagram audiences.
If you want to against Western Civilization totally, discuss the Chinese people too...
I already make an activism, so if you not like us, don't destroy us, we have same enemy
Islamic Movement Anti Government Protest, against Western Secular Liberal Government of Nusantara in Patung Kuda, Center Jakarta, Nusantara, on Friday, March 25 2022
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/40bae7f49522410a45498570c944a9c6/916f60e308b43b2a-58/s2048x3072/411e2fcb00ea796c858e0b66efcd51bbe5be737b.jpg)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/0df608ff6eca9816e8a19e7c20f07354/21de3fb10dab9fdd-41/s2048x3072/00dde39ad1286167879681c6bf21225157338456.jpg)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/57f272d9696207e782a03c7a2c0f0cad/21de3fb10dab9fdd-71/s2048x3072/0cb0493af06df9f053c85951638f0056e22830b9.jpg)
Poster of Grand Imam Habib Rizieq bin Hussein Shihab
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/5c63d4792d05481a4f7503cc43971b16/21de3fb10dab9fdd-62/s2048x3072/ee3de95333b91808750e6b957a0cd86d598e9cbc.jpg)
The main goal of our movement
https://youtu.be/q-lrhZpIPpg
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"If you want to against Western Civilization totally, discuss the Chinese people too..."
Have you not been reading my recent posts?
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/decolonized-housing-(america-edition)/msg12491/#msg12491
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/social-decolonization/msg12477/#msg12477
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/reproductive-decolonization/msg12084/#msg12084
etc.
I wholly support you starting a blog focusing on ridiculing Westernized Chinese, posting more of the same content like what you just posted above. However, you should make it clear that you consider Western civilization itself inferior, or else some readers might misunderstand and think you are actually pro-Western but merely saying that Chinese are not qualified to be Westerners.
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@90sRetroFan
Have you not been reading my recent posts?
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/decolonized-housing-(america-edition)/msg12491/#msg12491
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/social-decolonization/msg12477/#msg12477
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/reproductive-decolonization/msg12084/#msg12084
etc.
Your criticism is not destructive enough according to me. What you want is still give advice to the Chinese White Chinese to abandon Western way of live. We already make a plan to treat them like how we treat "whites" and "Chinese" during Bersiap Period in 1945 if they still stubborn on our warning
I wholly support you starting a blog focusing on ridiculing Westernized Chinese...
I already make an real activism, to show that I will be your ally even tough I'm still considered as traitor to this movement, if I am cannot be part of your movement, then I will do something which still hold your movement's value. So I more have time to implement the value to reality as soon as possible rather than inform people through making blog writings. And also, Nusantara people more like learn through listening to the teacher who know many knowledge (Fuhrerprinzip) rather than read many writings (Western Empiricist Education).
I'm not want ridiculing Westernized Chinese. I want to eradicate Westernized people. They are everyone's bastard
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"I want to eradicate Westernized people."
OK, but your most immediate focus should be Australia:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/has-australia-reconciled-with-its-colonial-past/
How are you planning to de-Westernize Australia?
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@90sRetroFan
OK, but your most immediate focus should be Australia:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/has-australia-reconciled-with-its-colonial-past/
How are you planning to de-Westernize Australia?
"Australian" people mostly come to Bali Island, but they are too much to be greeted by our people, even our people in Bali make Western-style facilities to them for making comfort to them. Like toilet with tissue, not water, expensive restaurant which offer Western food, English speaking-only room (which is infuriating me). All of it for appease them, even tough they not want try to help the Balinese people to understand them with speaking Nusantara language. And otherwise, Balinese people always with difficulties try to speak English to the Western tourist, include "Australians".
So, my plan is to De-Westernization of Bali, and try to tell to the Islamic movements which I follow, to make a mass protest on Bali Question also, not just Jakarta.
And I hope if Nusantara led by the correct leader. He will emphasize the "Australia" problem. they always secretly fund and give weapons the Papuan separatist, so they can make pro-Western independent nation from Nusantara. And he will make nuclear weapon, or buy nuclear weapon from fellow Islamic nation, Iran, or socialist North Korea, for threatening "Australia" and also "New Zealand" if they refuse to distance themselves from Western bloc.
I have more ruthless treatment to the "whites" rather than the "non-whites" who want to behave like "whites". They are the sources of world cruelty and degenerate philosophical worldview.
WLM = White Lives Murder
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Also, you say "Jews and Westerners".
Jews are Westerners, so you should say "Jews and other Westerners".
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I suspect the Chinese Eurocentrists also look down on Indonesia for being a "third world" country, and bash them in order to avoid being seen as "third worlders" by the "Whites".
They are in effect reinforcing the "White" supremacist view that "North East Asians" are better than other "non White" ethnicities.
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""New Zealand""
I do not recommend hostility against "New Zealand", on account of its promising recent behavioural trajectory:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/dress-decolonization/msg4140/#msg4140
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/name-decolonization/msg8778/#msg8778
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/name-decolonization/msg8790/#msg8790
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/academic-decolonization/msg10192/#msg10192
I believe we can help them become Aotearoa peacefully. We should emphasize the contrast between them and Australia so that they take pride in being as different from Australia as possible. Also, its population is only ~5 million, so it would not take much immigration from Nusantara to de-Westernize it through demographic shift.
Indeed, even Australia's population is only ~25 million which is <10% of Nusantara's population, therefore as I have previously mentioned you should think more about using migration to de-Westernize Australia demographically.
"I suspect the Chinese Eurocentrists also look down on Indonesia for being a "third world" country, and bash them in order to avoid being seen as "third worlders" by the "Whites"."
I am sure you are correct.
"They are in effect reinforcing the "White" supremacist view that "North East Asians" are better than other "non White" ethnicities."
Yes, they probably believe in the dreaded Arctic Alliance:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/temperature-effects/msg2459/#msg2459
In contrast, ancient Chinese would be horrified at being placed into the same category as Mongolians:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/re-turanian-diffusion/msg12171/#msg12171
or even Koreans:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/blood-memory/msg11975/#msg11975
This is why reviving anti-Turanism is vital. Once Chinese recall which direction the actual inferiority comes from, their old respect for Nusantara should return:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Indonesia_relations#History
Numerous Chinese ceramics were discovered throughout Indonesia, suggesting ancient trade links between both countries. The National Museum of Indonesia has one of the best and the most complete collections of Chinese ceramics discovered outside of China, dated from the Han, Tang, Song, Yuan, Ming and Qing dynasties, spanning for almost two millennia.[3] This particular collection provides a good insight into Indonesia's maritime trade over the centuries. Research indicates that the Chinese sailed to India via Indonesia as early as Western Han period (205 BC to 220 AD) as a part of the maritime silk road and firm trade relations were subsequently established.[4]
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Indonesia also played some role in the expansion of Buddhism from India to China. A Chinese monk, I-Tsing, visited Srivijaya in 671 for 6 months during his mission to acquire sacred Buddhist texts from India.[5][6]
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Most ancient Chinese-Indonesia relations were trade-motivated and throughout their shared history, most were harmonious and peaceful, with one exception.
What was the exception? Turandom, of course!
In 1293, Kublai Khan of Yuan dynasty sent a massive expedition of 1,000 ships to Java to punish the defiant king Kertanegara of Singhasari.[8] The naval expedition, however, was a failure as Java rose to be Majapahit empire instead.
Details:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Java
Back to the good stuff:
Maritime empires such as Srivijaya, Majapahit, and later Malacca sought trade permits to establish relations with lucrative Chinese markets. The numbers of Chinese immigrants and Chinese influences in the archipelago reached a new height, with the massive Ming dynasty naval expedition led by admiral Zheng He that visited Java, Sumatra, and the Malay peninsula in early the 15th century. Zheng He's translator Ma Huan wrote a detailed description of Majapahit and where the king of Java lived.[9] The report was composed and collected in Yingya Shenglan, which provides a valuable insight on the culture, customs, also various social and economic aspects of Chao-Wa (Java) during Majapahit period.[10]
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Also, a reminder that the "White" supremacist hierarchy places "Northeast Asians" even above other "Asians" (e.g. "South Asians" (Indians), "Southeast Asians" (Indonesians, etc.), and "Southwest Asians" (Middle Easterners)), which is why it possible for the Chinese to look down on Indonesians despite both groups being "Asians". This is presumably because of the "Arctic Alliance" that you mentioned.
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@90sRetroFan
Indeed, even Australia's population is only ~25 million which is <10% of Nusantara's population, therefore as I have previously mentioned you should think more about using migration to de-Westernize Australia demographically.
Most of colored immigrants who come and live in "Australia" live with ordinary "Australian" values, that is Western values, they immediately see that the Western democratic, liberty, and humanism values is more good rather than their nation origin's value, even many of Islamic immigrants abandon their Islamic values when they live and see "Australia" value which give them more freedom of expression and benefit. So, sending many immigrants to "Australia" and other Western European nations is implicitly promoting the advantages of Western values on non-Western values to the rest of non-Western world. And I doubt if "Australia" got many of colored immigrants, they will politically turn into anti-Western nation if they still hold Western democratic liberal value. And also, make an agreement with "Australia" to send millions of immigrants to their land is hardly to be accepted by them. They always reluctant to accept colored immigrants. If not rejected, the colored immigrants are send by "Australian" border police to the remote island like Nauru which torturing them because it's place is difficult to be inhabited.
Only power which can make them obey
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"the "White" supremacist hierarchy places "Northeast Asians" even above other "Asians""
It additionally considers Northern Chinese superior to Southern Chinese, and the Chinese Eurocentrists copy this attitude just because they hear it coming out of a "white" mouth. By our standards the opposite is true, of course:
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Southern-Chinese-and-Northern-Chinese-look-like-completely-different-races-and-why-do-they-look-nothing-alike-I-am-a-Chinese-from-China
Northern Chinese are a mix of early Han, Turkic peoples, Mongols, Koreans, Tibetans and some other mostly nomadic tribes which disappeared into the Han melting pot.
Southern Chinese were not nomadic, lived in a more mountainous region, and were mostly involved in rice cultivation.
...
Stronger alcohol drinking culture: The Chinese from Northeast China (Jilin, Heilongjiang, Liaoning) especially like to drink a lot alcoholic drinks like the Russians or the Koreans do.
Heavier and more robust food: Compared to Chinese food from Southern China, Chinese food from Northern China tends to be greasier, heavier on the stomach, saltier, and more robust in flavour. More meats and less vegetables are featured on Northern Chinese food.
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Stronger tea drinking culture: Southern Chinese people, especially Chinese people from Chaozhou region of China and Fujian region of China, tend to drink a lot more tea than Northern Chinese people. Chinese statistic said that Chinese people from Chaozhou region of China consume the most tea per capita compared to the other Chinese from other regions of China.
Lighter and more delicate food: As opposed to Northern Chinese food, Southern Chinese food tends to be less greasy, lighter on the stomach, less salty, and more delicate in flavour. More vegetables are featured on Southern Chinese food because vegetables could grow better in Southern China than in Northern China.
See also:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/yandi-vs-huangdi-myth-confirmed/
"even many of Islamic immigrants abandon their Islamic values"
Yes, but there is also a pattern of rebound in their offspring born in the Western country who often become strongly Islamic:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234146852_Islam_Moves_West_Religious_Change_in_the_First_and_Second_Generations
The situation is more complicated for the second generation. Western culture has an influence, but structural integration does not necessarily reduce religiosity. Some children of immigrants try to follow a “real” Islam that has been purified of culturally specific practices. Hostility toward Muslims may lead some to react by increasing their own religious involv...
This is what we are counting on.
So let's look at the whole picture. Some Nusantarans are more Islamic, others are less Islamic. If none emigrate, nothing changes. But if emigration is encouraged, those emigrating will probably be the less Islamic (since they dislike the local lifestyle to begin with). So Nusantara becomes more Islamic as a consequence of their departure. But their Australian-born offspring will then become more Islamic! Thus emigration from Nusantara to Australia makes both Nusantara and Australia more Islamic. See how amazing this is?
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Thus emigration from Nusantara to Australia makes both Nusantara and Australia more Islamic. See how amazing this is?
And, let's not forget Mohammedans are often more nationalistic than even their "white" Western native counterparts:
Muslims 'are more patriotic than most British people'
British Muslims feel a greater sense of national pride than the average UK citizen, according to the results of a new poll.
While 79 per cent of the Britons quizzed said they agreed with the statement 'I am proud to be a British citizen', the figure rose to 83 per cent among Muslims.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063828/Muslims-patriotic-British-people.html
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@Mazda
And, let's not forget Mohammedans are often more nationalistic than even their "white" Western native counterparts:
If their nationalism are because of British comfort living and liberty, then their cause are actually liberalism and Western materialism. If their nationalism are because of British can be dominated by Islam, then their cause are make British (United Kingdom) politically Islamic nationalism. So don't judge that all muslims in Britain (United Kingdom) have national pride because of nationalism on your movement's meaning, some of them just love liberty and Western way of life which give them more comfort rather than the Islamic nations where they come from. And Britain are liberal. And liberals cannot be a nationalist, because they reject the absolutism value which exist in nationalism ideas.
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"Northern Chinese"
I was just watching the movie "Ip Man" that showcased the difference between Northern and Southern Chinese. One of the antagonists, Jin Shan Zhao, is an agressive, Northern Chinese bandit who looks down on southerners. In addition, the character is also a sexist.
Here is the phenotype of the actor who plays the character:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR63VngquBS4UsXhggi3d_h155mxTGSi8BczOXGPypw6ZqJhMZAOgYzsW4oFGm7t-Zo5BQ&usqp=CAU)
The protagonist and titular character on the other hand, is a non-sexist and non-aggressive southerner. Here is the phenotype of the actor who plays the protagonist:
(https://martialartsactionmovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Donnie-Yen.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiadWHukunk
Jin Shan Zhao: "What I really want to know is, how Wing Chun could be invented by a woman?"
Ip-Man: "Kung fu does not know age or sex"
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Another thing I noticed about Southern Chinese while watching the film was their diet. In the film, the residents of the southern Chinese town Fo-Shan primarily consume rice. This is similar to South India. In one of the scenes, Ip-Man is even shown to be eating "congee", a dish whose name is literally a South Indian word!:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congee#Etymology
The English word congee is derived from the Tamil word kanji (கஞ்சி, kañci, IPA: [ˈkaɲdʑiː]).[1][2][3] In Chinese, it is known as zhou (Chinese: 粥; pinyin: zhōu; Cantonese Yale: jūk). The earliest reference to rice porridge or congee can be traced back to the Chinese Zhou dynasty (circa 1000 BCE). It is also mentioned in the Book of Rites and noted in Pliny’s account of India circa 77 CE.[4]
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"Here is the phenotype of the actor who plays the character:"
Fan also appears in the Counterculture-era classic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Righting_Wrongs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhjF-oq0Q8s
Pause at 6:37 and contrast his face with that of Yuen who is the hero. (By the way, avoid this cut of the movie, which uses the modified ending. The original ending is the canonical one.)
Some time back, Zea_mays and I were watching another Counterculture-era classic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Run_(1988_film)
in which we noted the facial contrast between Yuen and the main villain Chin (pause at 10:03):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40LcF1HpZEY
Also note who is wearing a necktie!
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/dress-decolonization/msg5817/#msg5817
If you want to discuss the movies themselves, we can continue here:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/
"congee"
Also discussed here:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/dietary-decolonization/msg7707/#msg7707
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China today behave like Western Colonial nations in the past. But with economic way... See this information below
Source : https://ekbis.sindonews.com/read/740901/33/deretan-negara-yang-berutang-ke-china-nomor-3-terpaksa-lepas-tanah-1000-km2-1649743455
"...JAKARTA - Several countries are noted to have large debts to China. In fact, there are countries whose loan values almost reach 25% of gross domestic product (GDP). Countries indebted to China are scattered, ranging from countries located in Africa, Asia and the Pacific. Not a few also feel trapped by China's debt.
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Maldwa is an island nation in the Indian Ocean which is one of the countries in debt to China. Speaker of the People's Assembly (Parliament of the Maldives) and former President Mohamed Nasheed said in December 2019 that the Maldives owed China $3.5 billion
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Nasheed said China's debt trap is an economic and human rights issue, as well as a sovereignty and freedom issue for the island nation. According to him, the increasing project costs, the value of debt on paper is far greater than the $1.1 billion that the country has received.
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According to the country's bank data, Pakistan's debt to China was USD7.2 billion in 2017; then increased to USD19 billion in April 2018 and USD30 billion in 2020. The debt swelling was mainly due to loans to finance the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project. The New York Times reported on the military dimension of the investment that emerged in December 2018, calling it an opaque and poorly regulated debt trap.
...
A number of countries in Africa are also in debt to China. These countries increased their borrowing from China between 2000 and 2014 (totaling a total of USD94.5 billion or approximately Rp1,351.35 trillion) as they sought to end dependence on the IMF and World Bank, which demanded market liberalization in exchange for loan. China is a major project stakeholder in the economies of many African countries, significantly influencing many affairs on the continent. According to research conducted as part of the Debt Jubilee Campaign in October 2018, Africa's debt to China rose from USD10 billion in 2010 to more than USD30 billion in 2016. In 2020, the African country with the largest Chinese debt is Angola (USD25 billion) , Ethiopia (USD13.5 billion), Zambia (USD7.4 billion), Republic of the Congo (USD7.3 billion), and Sudan (USD6.4 billion). A total of $143 billion for African governments and state-owned companies between 2000 and 2017.
Apart from the above countries, China has also provided loans to Kyrgyzstan, Laos and Mongolia. It also provided a $115 million loan to Tonga to rebuild its infrastructure, and a $2 billion loan to Papua New Guinea (which is almost a quarter of the country's national debt). China also has ongoing projects in Trinidad and Tobago, including a $500 million Chinese-built dry dock and a $102 million industrial park in La Brea.
And the people of American Renaissance on their online website have more deep information about China people's political worldview, see this information below :
Source : https://www.amren.com/features/2017/03/chinese-college-students-think-race/
"As an English teacher at a Chinese university, I spend a lot of time with young people. As a result of friendships I’ve developed, I have learned a lot about what they think about race and ethnicity. ...
...
When I ask my students what they think of black people, they express mixed results depending on sex. The girls often react with disgust, revulsion, or pity. They use terms such as “ugly,” “black skin,” “weird hair,” “smelly,” “loud,” and “flat nose.” Part of this has to do with Chinese standards of beauty, which value a prominent or “high nose,” “three dimensional face,” “light skin,” and “double eyelids” (a skin crease above the eyes like that of whites). The Chinese perception of beauty is almost the exact opposite of the way blacks look.
The girls’ disgust is often combined with fear, and they associate blacks with crime. This gut attitude from Chinese girls can be perplexing because it arises from those who have often never met a black person, or have seen them only in passing. It seems to me this association of black people with danger and violence is almost innate for Chinese people, especially women. I’ve also noticed that black African young men have absolutely no luck trying to date Chinese girls, who see them as weird, ugly, and aggressive.
This contrasts sharply with Chinese girls’ typical reaction to whites. From my own observation, and from what I hear from others, they practically throw themselves at white guys. In our class introductions at the beginning of the semester, I usually have at least four or five ask if I will date them — they flirt with me right in front of the class. Many more make advances privately.
The Pakistani boys have mixed results. Some of them are successful, but if they are too traditional in their Islamic behavior, the Chinese girls reject them.
...
However, Chinese boys are not attracted to black women and would never think of marrying one. I was once in a group discussion in which it was jokingly suggested China should invade Africa to acquire women to fill the sex gap plaguing China (thirty million Chinese boys have no girl to marry). One of the Chinese men in the group looked perplexed, and said: “But there are no women in Africa for us to marry; there are only dark-skinned people there.”
Source : https://www.amren.com/news/2018/10/kenyans-say-chinese-investment-brings-racism-and-discrimination/
"As the country embraces China’s expanding presence in the region, many Kenyans wonder whether the nation has unwittingly welcomed an influx of powerful foreigners who are shaping the country’s future — while also bringing racist attitudes with them. ...
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Today, many younger Kenyans say that racism is a phenomenon they largely know indirectly, through history lessons and foreign news. But episodes involving discriminatory behavior by the region’s growing Chinese work force have unsettled many Kenyans, particularly at a time when their government seeks closer ties with China.
...
But here in Nairobi, concerns about racism and discrimination are a growing part of the conversation about China’s expanding presence.
Other Kenyan workers explained how their office bathrooms were separated by race: one for Chinese employees, the other for Kenyans. Yet another Kenyan worker described how a Chinese manager directed his Kenyan employees to unclog a urinal of cigarette butts, even though only Chinese employees dared smoke inside.
The Chinese population in Kenya is difficult to count accurately, although one research group put the figure at around 40,000. Many are here for just a few years, to work for one of hundreds of Chinese companies. Many of the employees live together in large housing developments and are bussed back and forth from work, leaving little social interaction with Kenyans.
“Because of the isolation and lack of integration, usually they are not very aware of the local situation,” said Hongxiang Huang, a Chinese conservationist and former journalist who has lived in Nairobi. “They do not know very well how to interact with the outside world.”
And many arrive with hierarchical views of culture and race that tend to place Africans at the bottom, said Howard French, a former New York Times correspondent who wrote the 2014 book “China’s Second Continent,” which chronicles the lives of Chinese settlers in Africa.
Source : https://www.amren.com/news/2020/12/how-racism-and-discrimination-affect-black-people-in-china-and-hong-kong/
"A report in February led by Adams Bodomo, from the University of Vienna, said that approximately half of 1 million African migrants in China had restricted access to local health services, and that their quality of life was “also affected by racial discrimination and visa policy restrictions”.
In April, widespread reports emerged from the large African community in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou of harassment during the coronavirus outbreak, including being evicted from their homes or subject to forced quarantine. A McDonald’s restaurant in Guangzhou was also forced to apologise after it put up a sign banning black people from entering.
Black Livity China, a platform for the African diaspora in China, has posted on its website advocating for more awareness of discrimination against Africans in the country, including posting about racist articles on WeChat and blackface in Chinese ads. “Naturally, this anti-African sentiment isn’t echoed by all Chinese people, but it is contributing to a growing sense of insecurity among many in the community,” its editorial team wrote in October.
In Hong Kong, there have also been complaints of discrimination among the estimated 3,144 people of African descent among the city’s 7.5 million population, according to the 2016 Population By-census. The city’s equal opportunity watchdog said that 492 complaints of discrimination against the community have been filed in the past five years.
A new study on African migrants in June by four scholars from Hong Kong and one from the University of Johannesburg found that African migrants in the city faced challenges including limited social networks, lack of awareness of social services, social alienation, limited job opportunities and poor housing.
On the HomeGrown podcast, honest conversations about race have resonated with a broader community, as people relate to what Sowole, also known as Fantastic Fo, described as “random acts of ignorance”. One listener from Sri Lanka told the hosts how she was assumed to be a cleaning lady when trying to visit a wellness centre in Tsim Sha Tsui.
Sowole said he has felt the weight of representing his race, something that white expats don’t need to bear: “When one black person does something bad, the entire race is stereotyped, so you’re much more aware of how you behave,” he said. “One drunken white person doesn’t change the perception of their entire race, whereas one drunken black person can be a reflection on everyone from Nigerians to African-Americans and Jamaicans.”
Experts say that Hong Kong has a complex racial history as a former British colony that has often left ethnic minorities – including Africans, South Asians and Southeast Asians – feeling alienated from their ethnic Chinese counterparts.
Source : https://www.amren.com/news/2020/12/how-racism-and-discrimination-affect-black-people-in-china-and-hong-kong/
"Pan, who lives in Tianjin near Beijing — and nowhere near Guangdong — held his proposal aloft for reporters to see. It read in part (links in Chinese):
“Black brothers often travel in droves; they are out at night out on the streets, nightclubs, and remote areas. They engage in drug trafficking, harassment of women, and fighting, which seriously disturbs law and order in Guangzhou… Africans have a high rate of AIDS and the Ebola virus that can be transmitted via body fluids… If their population [keeps growing], China will change from a nation-state to an immigration country, from a yellow country to a black-and-yellow country.”
On social media, the Chinese response has been overwhelmingly supportive, with many commenters echoing Pan’s fears. In a forum dedicated to discussions about black people in Guangdong on Baidu Tieba — an online community focused on internet search results — many participants agreed that China was facing a “black invasion.” One commenter called on Chinese people (link in Chinese) not to let “thousands of years of Chinese blood become polluted.”
The stream of racist vitriol online makes the infamous Chinese TV ad for Qiaobi laundry detergent, which went viral last year, seem mild in comparison. The ad featured a Asian woman stuffing a black man into a washing machine to turn him into a pale-skinned Asian man. ...
...
Looking deeper into history, evidence suggests a preference for slaves from East Africa in ancient China. African slavery in the country peaked during the Tang (618 to 907) and Song (960 to 1279) dynasties.
More recently, violence broke out after the Chinese government started providing scholarships allowing African students to study in the country in the 1960s. Many Chinese students resented the stipends Africans received, with tensions culminating in riots in Nanjing in the late 1980s. The riots began with angry Chinese students surrounding African students’ dormitories in Hehai University and pelting them with rocks and bottles for seven hours, with crowds later marching through the streets shouting anti-African slogans.
In the past few years, loathing among some Chinese toward foreign men who date local women has led to a recent rise in violent attacks against foreigners.
{snip}
Instead of addressing discrimination, the Chinese government has focused on promoting cultural exchanges while pursuing economic partnerships with African countries. However, many have pointed out that relationships appear unbalanced, with China taking Africa’s limited natural resources in exchange for infrastructure investment.
Can you, True Left Community have more attention towards the Communist China and also the Chinese race?
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This is precisely what Deng Xiaoping warned against..
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Several countries are noted to have large debts to China.
They chose to borrow the money. China did not force them to borrow the money.
many arrive with hierarchical views of culture and race that tend to place Africans at the bottom
Who introduced this hierarchy in the first place? Western civilization did! Therefore we need to help China de-Westernize, which is what I have already been saying all over the forum. I don't see you contributing much.
A McDonald’s restaurant in Guangzhou was also forced to apologise after it put up a sign banning black people from entering.
We should support the side forcing the restaurant to apologize.
pursuing economic partnerships with African countries. However, many have pointed out that relationships appear unbalanced, with China taking Africa’s limited natural resources in exchange for infrastructure investment.
Again, China is not forcing them to accept these deals. The countries can choose to turn down any deals they find unsatisfactory and get better deals elsewhere if they can.
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@90sRetroFan
...Who introduced this hierarchy in the first place? Western civilization did! Therefore we need to help China de-Westernize, which is what I have already been saying all over the forum. I don't see you contributing much. ...
Have you see the all of information, seems China has racist worldview from their own thousand years ago and today they still use that thing. See this information which you missed :
...Looking deeper into history, evidence suggests a preference for slaves from East Africa in ancient China. African slavery in the country peaked during the Tang (618 to 907) and Song (960 to 1279) dynasties....
Source : https://www.amren.com/news/2020/12/how-racism-and-discrimination-affect-black-people-in-china-and-hong-kong/
Remember, Islamic people despise China, you will lose our support if you still support China without rational observation and reason. And also, people from Kenya, Angola, Zimbabwe, and other non-industrial nations. Mostly Nusantara people today despise China, particularly devout Islamic people.
Our founding fathers, Dictator Sukarno also despise Chinese people, he approved his minister's order to expel many of Chinese people from Nusantara during 1959. Because they behave like foreigners and make a monopoly business which endanger the nation's economy.
Dictator Suharto, Sukarno's successor also give many restrictions and total control to the Chinese people for avoiding their capitalist behaviour.
And the oppressed nations have an aid and support to resist mostly not from the Chinese, but non-Chinese nations like North Korea, Cuba, Japan, and Libya
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But there were also Chinese slaves in China back then, so ingroup-outgroup double standards were not being applied. You are arguing using WN talking points that we debunked more than a decade ago.
"Islamic people"
Also from AmRen:
https://www.amren.com/features/2017/02/black-slavery-middle-east/
but this too is not an application of ingroup-outgroup double standards since there were also slaves of the same ethnicity as the slave owners.
If you are so upset about slavery in general that you must consider China your enemy, you should by the same logic be upset enough about slavery in general to consider Islamic countries your enemies also. But if you are willing to give the latter (but not the former) a pass, then I must wonder if you are the one applying ingroup-outgroup double standards?
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@90sRetroFan
...then I must wonder if you are the one applying ingroup-outgroup double standards?
Chinese philosophy doesn't see Judeo-Christianity movements as their main world enemy, the true evil of the world, different than Islamic philosophy. So I don't think that Chinese political worldview can have the same value like Islam. I am not enforcing in-group out-group double-standard. You know Felix Siauw, a Chinese muslim in Nusantara, support Islamic nationalism and caliphate. I don't dislike him...
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Your approach will only end up pushing China closer to Russia, which is the opposite of what we are trying to do here.
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@90sRetroFan
They chose to borrow the money. China did not force them to borrow the money.
Jews also do the same thing to the European government. The Europeans choose freely to work with them and use their harmful borrowing-money economic system even tough they also got debt trapped. And after that, they did it to the rest of the world with the help of Western Civilization and European achievements.
Again, China is not forcing them to accept these deals. The countries can choose to turn down any deals they find unsatisfactory and get better deals elsewhere if they can.
Or... China success to make the nations whom they give lend money look fool on their view... And... also, try to tell your arguments to the nations which got trapped economically by Chinese Asiatic Hordes
If you are so upset about slavery in general that you must consider China your enemy, you should by the same logic be upset enough about slavery in general to consider Islamic countries your enemies also. But if you are willing to give the latter (but not the former) a pass, then I must wonder if you are the one applying ingroup-outgroup double standards?
I have a good answer for you... Can people, especially dark-skinned people easily considered as fellow Chinese, or more easy to be considered as fellow muslims? Try that arguments to the Chinese people whom you found. And I doubt you will find a proper answer like you want...
Alright, I begin to accept your hostility to Russia. Seeing my Islamic organization which I support, Islamic Brotherhood Front (IBF) choose neutral on Russia-Ukraine War. But let's talk more about this Chinese problem. My nation also strongly dislike the Chinese...
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"Jews also do the same thing to the European government."
The Jewish bankers lending money to the government were citizens of the states whose governments they were lending the money to. When China lends to other countries, that is lending from one state to another state.
"they did it to the rest of the world with the help of Western Civilization and European achievements."
In other words, the Western colonialist armies literally killed those who refused to borrow money. China's army is not doing this.
"Chinese Asiatic Hordes"
Why are you using Western terminology to describe Chinese? Are you a Westerner?
"Can people, especially dark-skinned people easily considered as fellow Chinese, or more easy to be considered as fellow muslims?"
The correct question to ask should be: are Chinese more willing to work with non-Chinese fellow victims of Western colonialism, or are Muslims more willing to work with non-Muslim fellow victims of Western colonialism? Here are your own words:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/nationalism-and-islamism-comparisons/msg12987/#msg12987
If they want to submit the Islamic rule. We cannot trust the non-muslims.
If you represent Muslims, I would choose Chinese any day. Fortunately I know plenty of non-bigot Muslims, therefore I continue to have hope in both.
"My nation also strongly dislike the Chinese..."
This is stupid. Your correct geopolitical enemy is Australia. You should look at what Australia says about China. Why would you agree with Australia? Fortunately some Nusantarans know better:
https://www.news.com.au/world/pacific/respect-us-solomon-islands-pm-launches-tirade-with-scathing-rebuke-of-australia/news-story/e632ce6a7e3055ea4bb34f9383a21bbe
‘Respect us’: Solomon Islands PM launches tirade with scathing rebuke of Australia
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Prime Minister of the Solomon Islands Manasseh Sogavare has ramped up criticisms of Australia’s response to a recent defence deal with China.
Addressing the country’s parliament in Honiara on this week, Mr Sogavare launched into a tirade ranging from Australia’s lack of respect for the Pacific Nation to western global influence.
He labelled groups within the Solomon Islands that opposed the signing of a security pact with China “racists” and ”bigots”, the ABC reported.
The speech included an apparent swipe at those who referred to the Solomons as “Australia’s backyard”.
“[A backyard] is where rubbish is collected and burnt. It is an area which supports the daily wellbeing of residents of the house,” Mr Sogavare said.
“I call on those people who continue to brand us as their backyard to stop calling us that name and start to respect us as a sovereign independent nation with one equal vote in the United Nations.”
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@90sRetroFan
"The Jewish bankers lending money to the government were citizens of the states whose governments they were lending the money to. When China lends to other countries, that is lending from one state to another state."
The point is, they similarly oppressing a community of people with economic measures
"they did it to the rest of the world with the help of Western Civilization and European achievements."
In other words, the Western colonialist armies literally killed those who refused to borrow money. China's army is not doing this.
That is the cunning ability of the Chinese. Oppressing a community of people without sadism
"Chinese Asiatic Hordes"
Why are you using Western terminology to describe Chinese? Are you a Westerner?
Because Chinese people proud to be a Westerner. I already told you with proof of photos that the Chinese people like to live with Western standards. See my previous post...
The correct question to ask should be: are Chinese more willing to work with non-Chinese fellow victims of Western colonialism, or are Muslims more willing to work with non-Muslim fellow victims of Western colonialism? Here are your own words:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/nationalism-and-islamism-comparisons/msg12987/#msg12987
If they want to submit the Islamic rule. We cannot trust the non-muslims.
If you represent Muslims, I would choose Chinese any day. Fortunately I know plenty of non-bigot Muslims, therefore I continue to have hope in both.
If Chinese want to work with fellow victim of colonialism. They not make a debt trap economic agreement to them. But the fact is otherwise... And also, non-muslims will get safety and ordinary live with some of additional taxes if they live in Islamic rule. So Islamizing the non-muslims doesn't mean oppressing them.
And non-muslim religions tend to ideologically support liberalism and secularism, and economically support capitalism. That is the reason we not trust the non-muslims. Non-muslims in my country tend to be a liberals which you also hate that thing...
And, a good historical information for you by the way, enjoy...
Source : https://historia.id/militer/articles/di-balik-pendirian-pao-an-tui-vQNow/page/1
This Chinese security guard was later known as Pao An Tui (PAT). When the independence revolution raged in North Sumatra, PAT played the role of the enemy of the Republicans. The play is not without reason. In times of crisis, they are squeezed to defend themselves in order to continue living.
...
The proclamation of independence brought the position of the Chinese community under threat. After the Japanese occupation ended, the Chinese were subjected to intimidation. Radical natives often visit the residences or shops of the Chinese, who are generally merchants. Having had their property looted, these poor Chinese citizens are very vulnerable to becoming victims of kidnapping, ****, and even murder.
"The Chinese were subjected to systematic acts of retaliation, because they were financially strong and attached as Dutch opportunist collaborators," wrote Dutch historian Anne van deer Veer in the introduction to her thesis at Leiden University "The Pao An Tui in Medan: A Chinese Security Force. in Dutch Occupied Indonesia, 1945-1948".
The Chinese people must be punished in order to be a good Nusantaran. They did a horrible crime during Nusantara was colonized by the European nations. That is the main reason why until today Nusantarans hate the Chinese people. Even until now their behaviour still not changed, diong economic things which only benefit themselves but oppressing the rest of Nusantarans
"My nation also strongly dislike the Chinese..."
This is stupid. Your correct geopolitical enemy is Australia. You should look at what Australia says about China. Why would you agree with Australia?
Are you remember that on previous conversation post I want to nuke Australia. But you offer me a soft solution with "non-white" people mass immigration approach to Australia? I have more ruthless approach to the "whites" rather than to the "Chinese".
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"oppressing"
The borrowing is voluntary. What part of this do you not understand?
"If Chinese want to work with fellow victim of colonialism. They not make a debt trap economic agreement to them."
An agreement means both states choose freely to engage in it. The term "debt trap" is nonsense. Both states understand the terms and the risks before signing the contract. Therefore there is no trap.
What is China supposed to do? Let the other state get away with not paying back the money that it agreed to pay back? Then what is the point of signing a contract in the first place?
"I want to nuke Australia."
Do you understand that Australia wants to see poor relations between China and Nusantara? Therefore, by promoting hostility towards China, you are helping Australia?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-hits-back-australia-over-093000518.html
Addressing an online event with Pacific Island nations the same day, China's vice foreign minister Xie Feng said negotiating and signing a framework security cooperation agreement was "the sacred right of two sovereign countries" in line with international laws and norms, and no one had the right to point fingers at China.
...
Xie said Australia's stance amounted to "disinformation, defamation, coercion and intimidation", and proof that it was still "obsessed with colonialist myths, exercising coercive diplomacy, trying hard to control the Pacific islands to maintain a so-called sphere of influence".
"The Pacific is the common home of regional countries, not someone's 'backyard' or 'turf', and should be a stage for international cooperation, not a chessboard for geopolitical games," he declared.
The China-Solomon security agreement is "open and transparent [and] not targeted at third parties," Xie told a virtual event launching a cooperation centre on climate change for China and Pacific Island countries, in the eastern Chinese province of Shandong.
He said China understood the climate change challenges facing the island nations and was willing to provide help "as a good friend, partner and brother."
Attending the event virtually were officials from Solomon Islands, Kiribati, Niue, Samoa, Tonga, Micronesia, Kiribati, Fiji and Vanuatu.
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@90sRetroFan
The borrowing is voluntary. What part of this do you not understand?
What I see is, if borrowing are voluntary between the borrower and lender. Then there is no feel of got fooled or trapped to the borrower. This Chinese's so-called "economic cooperation" got complain almost every country who try to cooperate with them. Therefore there is a fraud from the lender after the terms agreement.
An agreement means both states choose freely to engage in it. The term "debt trap" is nonsense. Both states understand the terms and the risks before signing the contract. Therefore there is no trap.
And the reality is, Chinese "One Belt One Road"'s foreign economic policy seen by many nations as a "economic trap". So there is a scandal on that policy.
Do you understand that Australia wants to see poor relations between China and Nusantara? Therefore, by promoting hostility towards China, you are helping Australia?
From my observation until today. Nusantara behave neutrally if we faced by that two nations. Not side with one of them. Habib Rizieq Shihab consider both Western nations and China are colonialist, but with different way.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a8pHSJRAyw
Perhaps this excerpt of a 2012 lecture by Korean American Professor David Kang on East Asian history could shed some light on the question.
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"This Chinese's so-called "economic cooperation" got complain almost every country who try to cooperate with them. Therefore there is a fraud from the lender after the terms agreement."
If you cannot point out which terms of the agreement were violated, the complaint cannot be taken seriously. Dissatisfaction with the result of an agreement does not on its own imply fraud.
"Chinese "One Belt One Road"'s foreign economic policy seen by many nations as a "economic trap". So there is a scandal on that policy."
If they did not like what was proposed, they should have declined getting involved to begin with. You cannot accept the proposal and then blame the proposer for proposing what you accepted!
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@90sRetroFan
"This Chinese's so-called "economic cooperation" got complain almost every country who try to cooperate with them. Therefore there is a fraud from the lender after the terms agreement."
If you cannot point out which terms of the agreement were violated, the complaint cannot be taken seriously. Dissatisfaction with the result of an agreement does not on its own imply fraud.
The nations who borrow the money and agree with the economic cooperation usually found a difficulty to pay back the loan
"Chinese "One Belt One Road"'s foreign economic policy seen by many nations as a "economic trap". So there is a scandal on that policy."
If they did not like what was proposed, they should have declined getting involved to begin with. You cannot accept the proposal and then blame the proposer for proposing what you accepted!
Their complaint is, China can do whatever they want to them, if they cannot pay back or found difficulties on pay the loan
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"The nations who borrow the money and agree with the economic cooperation usually found a difficulty to pay back the loan"
If I borrow money from you and I find it difficult to pay you back, is it your fault?
"Their complaint is, China can do whatever they want to them, if they cannot pay back or found difficulties on pay the loan"
China can only do what both sides agreed to in the contract. If they did not like this they had the option to not sign the contract in the first place. But to voluntarily sign the contract and then complain about it is ridiculous.
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@90sRetroFan
China can only do what both sides agreed to in the contract. If they did not like this they had the option to not sign the contract in the first place. But to voluntarily sign the contract and then complain about it is ridiculous.
Report to moderator
And, we must see the reality, China hated by many nations because of their economic proposal to them which it's implementation is contrary to what the agreement proposed. Many cooperating nations consider China spreading "debt trap". Many news information said that thing. Even the Chinese people still hated by Nusantarans because their attitude, you never see one of them ever be a Nusantara's governmental figure or president. So, make an alliance with China just adding more conflict right now...
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"it's implementation is contrary to what the agreement proposed"
If so, it should be easy to point out precisely which term in the agreement was violated.
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@90sRetroFan
"it's implementation is contrary to what the agreement proposed"
If so, it should be easy to point out precisely which term in the agreement was violated.
For example, Angola agree to be funded and build an infrastructure with China's help. And China give loan to them. But Angola find difficulties when they pay back. And then, China's workers who work to build Angola's infrastructures show their real's identity, that is a soldiers who can also do the builder's work. So Angola people forced to dominated by China's people. And they begin to make an economic activity using China's currency, that is Renmimbi.
That also happen to my nation. We find difficulties to pay the debt given by China. So they begin to send many immigrant workers to work on our land, but they also live on our land without using our culture, they tend to use Western culture. And many indigenous people not get a job which they want because the job already taken by the Chinese people...
What about that, is that political activity tend to bring colonialism? That is why I consider Islamism is superior than a Chinese culture. We 500 years ago agree voluntary to be a part of Ottoman Islamic nation's vassal without any curiousity and rough contradiction. Different on how we deal with the Chinese....
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"Angola find difficulties when they pay back."
"We find difficulties to pay the debt given by China."
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg13221/#msg13221
If I borrow money from you and I find it difficult to pay you back, is it your fault?
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@90sRetroFan
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg13221/#msg13221
If I borrow money from you and I find it difficult to pay you back, is it your fault?
See this fact below
...So they begin to send many immigrant workers to work on our land, but they also live on our land without using our culture, they tend to use Western culture. And many indigenous people not get a job which they want because the job already taken by the Chinese people...
And also, you don't have a problem seeing indebted nations using Renmimbi as their currencies and their land controlled by China. Yet you always denounce Western colonialism. What matter is the consequences. If the consequences bring to oppression. Then the cooperation is not good. If China's cooperation did not bring oppression. Then there is no complain and dissatisfaction from the nation which cooperate... Many protest happen on my nation because of that Chinese policies
Your Far East geopolitics need to be reconsidered. Many Eastern nations have more hatred to Chinese rather than, for example, Russia.. And also many countries in continent named "Africa" voluntarily give their people to fight with Russian soldiers in Russia-Ukraine War rather than work economically with this Chinese Bolshevism Hordes
Malaysia and Philippines also more dissatisfied with China. Their sea borders oftenly violated by Chinese seaman...
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"you don't have a problem seeing indebted nations using Renmimbi as their currencies and their land controlled by China."
This was agreed upon by both sides before money was borrowed! What part of this do you not understand?
Of course I don't have a problem with China simply following the prior agreement! That's what the agreement is for!
"If the consequences bring to oppression."
China would be oppressed if it were not allowed to follow an agreement that both sides had already agreed to.
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@90sRetroFan
This was agreed upon by both sides before money was borrowed! What part of this do you not understand?
If the cooperated nations are dissatisfied to do economical work with China. then China do something which violate the agreement. And this is actually happen...
China would be oppressed if it were not allowed to follow an agreement that both sides had already agreed to.
China are the oppressor. They set a unnegotiated debt to the client nation. So the client nation are fooled...
If you keep this Far East Pro-China policy. You will lost support from muslim and also dark-skinned people from "Africa". No one like China, and we proud that our founding fathers, Dictator Sukarno and Suharto always keep China people being second-class citizens and restricted. They behave like Jews, prioritize their own people before the nation. It's fool and unwise if we let the Chinese people walk freely without restriction on our land. And also China, prioritize profit above solidarity. Your pro-China policy did not fool us, I doubt that you are a socialist.... Chinese are extreme capitalist nation today...
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"If the cooperated nations are dissatisfied to do economical work with China. then China do something which violate the agreement."
If I borrow money from you, cannot pay you back and therefore as previously agreed have to work for you instead, but I dislike it, is it your fault?
"They set a unnegotiated debt to the client nation."
What do you mean "unnegotiated"? Both states negotiated until they were both willing to sign an agreement FFS!
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@90sRetroFan
What do you men "unnegotiated"? Both states negotiated until they were both willing to sign an agreement FFS!
China and the client nation make a negotiation. And after begin the work, they doing something which not negotiated at the first place, that is giving the high debt rate to the client nation. So the client nation have difficulties to pay back the loan. And China deliberately do that for the sake oppress that client nation easily without a war. They send Chinese workers to make the facilities and infrastructures on the client nation, and let them live on that builded land. And the local people feel angry to them. But they cannot resist and drive them out. Because Chinese workers already got protected to live on their land from the trapping agreements between China and the client nation. That is not cooperation, but oppression without sadism...
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"they doing something which not negotiated at the first place, that is giving the high debt rate to the client nation."
The other state had the option to not borrow the money.
"Chinese workers already got protected to live on their land from the trapping agreements between China and the client nation."
In other words, China is simply following the agreement. China is not at fault.
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@90sRetroFan
"they doing something which not negotiated at the first place, that is giving the high debt rate to the client nation."
The other state had the option to not borrow the money.
China also have option to not give high debt rate after the negotiation completed. But they choose to do that for the sake oppressing another nation to subjugate them. Seems you supporting a nation oppressing another nation while you promoting empathy and justice... We are not stupid...
"Chinese workers already got protected to live on their land from the trapping agreements between China and the client nation."
In other words, China is simply following the agreement. China is not at fault.
China doing agreements which give trap to the client nations after the agreement, during the work is ongoing. not just simply following the agreement. And also, if you support the Chinese do that thing, you support IMF World Organization too then. They do the same thing to the client nations...
Imagine you doing an loan agreement with some people. They show the original debt rate. Then during you work with his loan. Suddenly he tell you that the debt rate is different and higher rather than the debt rate which shown during the agreement before... Of course that is trap and cheating. Are you support the people who like cheating and trapping?
If you still defending your irrational pro-Chinese argument. Your sites already seen by many people. And people just see that you are doing political bias without valid argument
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"Imagine you doing an loan agreement with some people. They show the original debt rate. Then during you work with his loan. Suddenly he tell you that the debt rate is different and higher rather than the debt rate which shown during the agreement before..."
Then I can directly refer to the text of the agreement to justify paying back only as much as originally agreed to.
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@90sRetroFan
"Imagine you doing an loan agreement with some people. They show the original debt rate. Then during you work with his loan. Suddenly he tell you that the debt rate is different and higher rather than the debt rate which shown during the agreement before..."
Then I can directly refer to the text of the agreement to justify paying back only as much as originally agreed to.
And they don't care anymore about the previous agreement which they signed before, they want the new debt rate which they recently want to be paid. This can be applied to the case about China's attitude on economic work. Why you still support China then?
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"And they don't care anymore about the previous agreement which they signed before, they want the new debt rate which they recently want to be paid."
Can they point to a valid contract that renders the previous agreement obsolete? If not, then the previous agreement still stands.
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@90sRetroFan
"And they don't care anymore about the previous agreement which they signed before, they want the new debt rate which they recently want to be paid."
Can they point to a valid contract that renders the previous agreement obsolete? If not, then the previous agreement still stands.
They don't know and they don't want to know about that, they will force you to pay, and they will take your property one by one, if you cannot pay according the amount which they want. This case is illustrating how the Chinese do to the client nations. You support China, you lose support from the muslims and "Africans". Just pick a choice, it's easy, not like learning advanced maths and science
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"they will force you to pay"
How?
"and they will take your property one by one, if you cannot pay according the amount which they want."
Earlier you said:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg13266/#msg13266
"Chinese workers already got protected to live on their land from the trapping agreements between China and the client nation."
By this description, they would have to be following the original agreement. But now you say they are not following the original agreement. How can they get protection from the original agreement while not following the original agreement?
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@90sRetroFan
By this description, they would have to be following the original agreement. But now you say they are not following the original agreement. How can they get protection from the original agreement while not following the original agreement?
They, the Chinese got protection because the government of the client state are afraid to expel them. Seeing the Chinese are superpower nation. If they dare to do that. China will do like what European colonial nations did in the past, invade the client states.
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"If they dare to do that. China will do like what European colonial nations did in the past, invade the client states."
That is your presumption only.
Anyway, if the other state thinks China is not sticking to the original agreement, it should simply point to the text. Until we hear in detail and on public record from both sides regarding the part of the text in dispute, we do not actually know whose interpretation of the text is more accurate.
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the 'rules' which were leaked on social media have caused outrage - with many people slamming the restrictions as 'racist'
No. How many times do we have to explain this? Racism is ethnotribalism. POC contain multiple ethnicities including those ancestrally more distant from one another than they are ancestrally distant from "whites". Therefore it is logically impossible for POC to be an ethnotribe. Rather, POC are a folk. Indeed, only folkism can defeat racism:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/ethnotribalism-the-computer-simulation/msg9048/#msg9048
I'm already try to explained to someone who are declared him/herself as "communist" that racial diversity were existed and how the "White Europeans" were justified to be criticized. See this photographed private conversation...
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/7dfcd7e855dc7bc9fa0cda937dd75619/cb9a6a5a7533ceec-9b/s2048x3072/5a70b6152977c8cd4b4cfdac242d916ebed2f627.jpg)
Explanation :
I'm explained to him that the people of race who have better performance to work to solve the material world's problem like "White Europeans" and the Chinese people for example, tend to resulting oppression to the rest of the world like industrial pollutions, colonialism, and democratization which forced by them. And he/she just answering with judging and then block my Discord account.
The account's profile
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/58a9db2f563ff530ba744950d912a054/cb9a6a5a7533ceec-6e/s2048x3072/ea13cea0263a154233862022b7178a72a64cd984.jpg)
Name :
Iris (They/It)#9968
Profile :
About Me
They/It
Xeno-Enby Droid
Clinically: Autistic, Depressed, Crazy and Angy
council Communist/LeftCom/Anarchist Adjacent
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"and the Chinese people for example"
You should clarify that you are referring to Westernized "New Chinese" only. (Otherwise you are undermining POC folkism.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Culture_Movement
The New Culture Movement (Chinese: 新文化運動; pinyin: Xīn Wénhuà Yùndòng) was a movement in China in the 1910s and 1920s that criticized classical Chinese ideas and promoted a new Chinese culture based upon progressive, modern and western ideals like democracy and science.[1]
...
A large number of Western doctrines became fashionable, particularly those that reinforced the cultural criticism and nation-building impulses of the movement. Social Darwinism, which had been influential since the late nineteenth century, was especially shaping for Lu Xun, among many others,[16] and was supplemented by almost every "ism" of the world. Cai Yuanpei, Li Shizeng, and Wu Zhihui developed a Chinese variety of anarchism. They argued that Chinese society had to undergo radical social change before political change would be meaningful. [17] The pragmatism of John Dewey became popular, often through the work of Hu Shih, Chiang Monlin, and Tao Xingzhi. Dewey arrived in China in 1919, and spent the following year lecturing. Bertrand Russell also lectured widely to warm crowds. Lu Xun was associated with the ideas of Nietzsche, which were also propagated by Li Shicen, Mao Dun, and many other intellectuals of the time.
These are the Eurocentrists to blame for such absurdities as:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-degendering/msg5246/#msg5246
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-person_pronoun
n 1917, the Old Chinese graph tā (她, from nǚ 女, "woman") was borrowed into the written language to specifically represent "she" by Liu Bannong. As a result, the old character tā (他), which previously also meant "she" in written texts, is sometimes restricted to meaning "he" only. ... The creation of gendered pronouns in Chinese was part of the May Fourth Movement to modernize Chinese culture, and specifically an attempt to assert sameness between Chinese and the European languages, which generally have gendered pronouns.[80]
They are now already running out of steam, as Zea_mays and guest55 have extensively documented:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/simple-living-movements/msg7613/#msg7613
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/simple-living-movements/msg7671/#msg7671
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/simple-living-movements/msg9247/#msg9247
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/simple-living-movements/msg10810/#msg10810
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/simple-living-movements/msg13325/#msg13325
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/simple-living-movements/msg13708/#msg13708
Now is our chance! The best way to criticize Westernized "China" is to celebrate ancient China. You should be trying to help us do this, instead of trying to demoralize us. I have warned you about this before:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg13190/#msg13190
Your approach will only end up pushing China closer to Russia, which is the opposite of what we are trying to do here.
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The Chinese people overseas are Westernized and doing cultural gentrification everywhere. I'm also already told you how they work with the colonizers during colonial era on Nusantara...
What the solution you propose to the so-called "Westernized Chinese" on Jakarta, Surabaya, and Eastern Kalimantan, and the opportunist expatriat "White Europeans" who like hiking and having a good day on City of Denpasar, Bali?
My solutions was restricting immigrations from the nations which it's people heavily indoctrinated by Western doctrine (West and "East Asians" (Chinese, Japanese, South Korea, and Singapore). Instead allow more freely immigrants from less-Westernized nations ("Africa", "Middle Eastern", and "Soviet former Central Asia" nations like Turkestan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kazhakstan, and others). Or send the stubborn Westernized people who like speaking "Jaksel" (English mix with Indonesian language) to reeducation place for punishment.
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"The Chinese people overseas are Westernized and doing cultural gentrification everywhere."
Then call them "Westernized 'New Chinese'", instead of just "Chinese"! It's that simple!
"I'm also already told you how they work with the colonizers during colonial era on Nusantara..."
Similarly:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/dress-decolonization/msg15164/#msg15164
You are behaving like that idiot cop who thinks it is a good idea for China to be Japanophobic just because Japan at one point worked with the Western colonizers.
"What the solution you propose to the so-called "Westernized Chinese""
Ridicule their Westernization while simultaneously celebrating ancient China, and emphasizing the consistently friendly relations between China and Nusantara in ancient times:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg12515/#msg12515
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Indonesia_relations#History
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@90sRetroFan
You are behaving like that idiot cop who thinks it is a good idea for China to be Japanophobic just because Japan at one point worked with the Western colonizers.
As long as China not promoting serious anti-Western politics like North Korea. Then I tend to find a partner to the muslims in "Middle East", the less-Westernized people on "Africa", and the "former Soviet territory Central Asia" nations. That's what I can do on recent today's world political conditions. But it goes without saying that I will doing a relationship with China, but only on cold way to do.
To educate the anti-Sinophobic view to my people need a process bit by bit. Because they feel oppressed by the overseas Chinese people who always be the colonizers's friend during colonial era. And during Suharto era, even they bankrupt our nations alongside with Western IMF organizations with pretending to don't have money, and ask the government to give them a money to fulfill their private banks's asset. And the result was national inflation and crises on 1998.
So, my alert atittude to the "Westernized" Chinese people and "Western Europeans", including "half-White Europeans" on my homeland not purely satirical and jokes.
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See this important information below about the truth on the Chinese's economic cooperation to the African people. Even the Western media admit that the Chinese not trapped the nation client with so-called "debt-trap", or economic oppression :
Source : The Myth of the Chinese Debt Trap in Africa - Bloomberg Quicktake: Originals (18 March 2022)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-QDEWwSkP0
"...But while the U.S. has focused its Africa strategy on aid and social services, China as been building.
...
African governments themselves said, "We are tired of aid and charity, we want to do trade, we want to be treated like partners." The Chinese came along and said, "Great." "We don't do aid and charity, we wanna do business with you." - Eric Olander, Editor in Chief, The China Africa Project
(Minute 01 : 24 until 01 : 43)
Now the U.S. and Europe are answering back with their own infrastructure initiatives to counter China, but African experts are skeptical.
(Minute 01 : 49 until 01 : 56)
...
The Chinese said, "Well, guess what? We are the best in the world now at producing large scale infrastructure, fast and cheap. And we have a surplu of capital, so we'll loan you the money, we have our great contracting companies. We have all of this skill and all this ability to deliver fast and cheap." And in that sense, it was really an ideal match. They recognize what Africa's development was. And they said, "You know what? 30 years ago, that was us. We recognize a lot of what's going on here. You don't have enough infrastructure, you have a large population that's growing quickly." Also let's not underestimate there is a shared history here of anti-colonial struggle. So you tick all of those different boxes, and Africa made a lot of sense for the Chinese to come in." - Eric Olander, Editor in Chief, The China Africa Project
(Minute 04 : 16 until 05 : 03)
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But there are noticeable differences between Chinese financing and how the West lends historically with low interest rates and flexible terms.
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If you're comparing commercial loans to something available from the World Bank or one of its different agencies, then you're not really comparing like for like ... 95%, if not 99%, the loan agreement are there in favor of the lenders, no matter who you deal with. This is because by the time you sign that loan agreement and you get the money, you'll have the money in your hands and the only thing the bank will have is a piece of paper. That is why the loan agreements are in their favor.
(Minute 05 : 34 until 07 : 05)
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Another truth about the Chinese economic cooperation to the nation client. See this information below :
The Lowy Institute finds that, quote, "90% of China's bilateral loans have gone to countries that... could sustainably absorb such debt".
And finally, Deborah Brautigam of John Hopkins writes, quote, "so far, in Africa, we have not seen any examples where we would say the Chinese deliberately entangled another country in debt..."
(Minute 11 : 02 until 11 : 20)
Source :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gwgcIfzttA
The Truth About China in Africa - PolyMatter (24 December 2021)
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See this news information, compare the differences between westerners and China during doing economic cooperation :
Source : Critics say IMF loans often hurt developing, poor countries - TRT World Now (30 September 2022)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TczvNLAeEkQ
"The IMF typically says exactly to agreed a program with Zambia, where IMF has suggested that Zambia removes fuel taxes, fuel subsidies, remove food subsidies as well which the IMF's says are untargeted.
The problem is that in a country like Zambia with a lot of poor people actually it's very difficult to target the poor. On the other hand with a country like the UK which has a lot more wealth, it is more possible to target the poor more easily. So in a sense the prescription that IMF is giving to the UK is almost, it would be better in another context. But I think the biggest issue here especially for developing countries, is that quite often what they want to do is to determine their own policies rather than have to take the prescription to the IMF. The UK will not have to necessarily do that. It may well be able to get itself out of this hole if it does change its policies and not have to go to the IMF whereas other countries are in a very different situation. - Hannah Ryder, CEO of Development Reimagined
(Minute 01 : 05 until 02 : 25)
...
...now countries are only particularly dependent on China because others haven't necessarily been there, even what China has provided is really drop in the ocean in terms of what the needs are for actually kind of building more infrastructure and all this sort of thing, and we're seeing climate change which is even creating even more needs."
(Minute 03 : 28 until 03 : 46)
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Chinese Autocratic Socialism against the European Democratic Colonialism. See this information below :
(Read only to the sentences which given bold if you not have a time to understand the content)
Source : China and Africa: The Real Story of Western Hypocrisy (2 December 2021)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4AlyyPplkY
(Minutes 06: 37 to 08: 43)
I think we need to understand the history of how the West behaved in colonialism. How about various empires such as England, Holland, France, United States for some time with developing countries like the Philippines and Puerto Rico and others. How the relationship between them is made. That's a far different from what China is doing today.
In the years of classical colonial Western colonialism from the 1800s to the 1900s, countries that were included as part of the colonial empire were incorporated into large economic structures centered on the colonial state, for example England. England is the center of manufacturing industry. The center of modern manufacturing, industry and technology. And all the colonies are subordinate to it. So they become where raw materials are made which will be sent back to England, processed and developed there, turned into finished goods. Which were then sent out to the colonies where they received good trade agreements. And the colonies became a source of raw materials and became a channel for the manufacture of goods. It is something basic and really a schematic appearance to understand the relationship.
The difference is in how China pursues its development projects, they are also interested as you say, "This is not a charity program, this is not a global giving program, this is a program created to help China develop its domestic economy to improve the living standards of 1.4 billion people. And it's also done by fostering the local economic development of cooperating countries around the world" - Professor Ken Hammond, Professor of History at the University of New Mexico
I think the historical legacy of colonial colonialism is not just how it went. When the colonial empire existed until the liberation movement in the 1960s in liberating Africa from European colonization. And that legacy still endures. Britain, France and the United States continued to attack militarily in many countries on the "African" continent. Fighting in Nigeria, Mali, Chad, as well as the involvement of NATO and the United States in Libya is a grave violation of the national sovereignty of the countries of the "African" continent. So this legacy is still happening. And the idea or saying that the United States, Britain and other European countries accuse China is funny. Due to the fact that Western colonialism is still happening today. Arbitrary development by political units for example Kenya's state politics. You know, there was no country for British colonization, and the British got together with the previous communities and said, "You're going to be British East Africa". When they're independent, political arbitrariness continues to complicate Kenyan political life until now. So European colonialism. and its devastating consequences for African society and its economy continue to this day. The talk of changing and accusing China of neo-colonialism, becoming the new colonial occupier of Africa is absurd. That is an example of ridiculous claims made by rivals politics in Uganda. About the Chinese state seizing the airport, they have no real basis. And they use anything to make China look ugly. And it's worth remembering that the original news media reports outside Africa about this were made in connection with the Conservative Party BJP in India, there is a political agenda here that fulfills the interests of or Africans to vilify China. But the People's Republic of China has a long history of helping African countries starting in the 1970s when China was still struggling to build its early-stage economy, by sending its people to Africa. Ranging from engineers, volunteers, workers of all kinds of expertise to build large railroads in Tanzania, Zambia. Involved in various development projects. And their work has now been restored and expanded with China's Belt and Road initiative and other activities.
And you know that usually the Western media and mainstream media will catch any news that can be passively used to vilify China. While not seeing other stories about development, infrastructure, and educational opportunities. You know China doesn't just invest in railroads, roads and airports. They make sports stadiums, hospitals, infrastructure. The things that China is doing, when I show China as a great philanthropist and philanthropist, and the projects that China hopes to benefit them in the long term will become part of the trade network of exchanges, and the development of the world. And China is becoming the beneficiary, but more equally benefiting in the process. It's not just development focused on China.
(Minutes to 13: 15 to 17: 38)
Chinese National Socialism against Western European Liberalism
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Exposing the "United States"'s economic exploitation in the Congo. See this today's analytic and also the historical information :
Source: Voices from the African Left: China vs the US & the New Cold War - BreakThrough News (29 September 2021)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tdPGbGgBzA
(Minute 20: 07 to minute 22: 43)
"...Most people missed to see what happened. It's historic, foreign nations like China to punish companies that do bad things. And you mention that we have foreign companies, Western companies with a lot of documented reports from the United Nations. from OECD complaints from the ground. Reports exist, "The Golden Curse" written by "Human Rights Watch" documented ... Banro who built houses for the insurgency groups provided them with private jets and has never been convicted until now . .. We even created a website called "conflict minerals" where we listed 85 Western companies involved around the Congo resources. None of them have ever been convicted of anything. So the punishment for the 6 Chinese companies came from a documentary released by Cameroonian journalist named Foca who did a documentary targeting a Chinese mining company showed what's actually happens in the case of illegal extortion. When the information became public, the Chinese state took action. So, we see the main question is, "is China as a country blackmailing the Congo?", because that's out of context"
...
(Min 37:20 to 37:49)
I always give a historical view. I explained earlier, how the United States was the first country to recognize the Congo as the "private property" of King Leopold (King of the Belgian Colonial West). The Congo would not be what they are with the extortion they have had, if they had not been diplomatically backed by the United States to King Leopold II. They supported Belgium during colonialism, exploitation of natural resources for World War I and World War II." - Mikaela Nhondo Erskog, lecturer and researcher with "Pan-Africanism Today", researcher at the Tricontinental Institute
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHgTKeFGG_E
Just found out from this Hong Kong video that Madagasca, one of the many African countries helped by China to develop farming techniques to improve their productivity of the rice grain, has got on its bank note the picture of the hybrid rice stalk originally developed by Yuan Longping (Chinese: 袁隆平; September 7, 1930 – May 22, 2021), a Chinese agronomist and member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering known for developing the first hybrid rice varieties in the 1970s, part of the Green Revolution in agriculture. For his contributions, Yuan is known as the "Father of Hybrid Rice".
China actually sent specialist teams to stay for years in those African countries they helped, and when asked to comment on the aid projects, Zhou Enlai, the late Chinese Premier was reported to have said: "We're the poor helping the poor!"