True Left
History => Ancient World => Topic started by: 90sRetroFan on August 29, 2020, 11:28:21 pm
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The increasing Turan-worship around the internet is getting annoying:
(https://incels.co/attachments/1589887477385-jpg.328611/)
Disgust is the correct reaction to Turanian habits.
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@90sRetroFan:
Are you aware that there is a theory that Khan's Golden Horde used catapults to fling diseased dead bodies into cities they were laying siege to, including the diseased bodies of cattle? That would certainly be inline with the Turanian barbaric ethos too right?
Biological Warfare at the 1346 Siege of Caffa
“The dying Tartars, stunned and stupefied by the immensity of the disaster brought about by the disease, and realizing that they had no hope of escape, lost interest in the siege. But they ordered corpses to be placed in catapults1 and lobbed into the city in the hope that the intolerable stench would kill everyone inside.2 What seemed like mountains of dead were thrown into the city, and the Christians could not hide or flee or escape from them, although they dumped as many of the bodies as they could in the sea. And soon the rotting corpses tainted the air and poisoned the water supply, and the stench was so overwhelming that hardly one in several thousand was in a position to flee the remains of the Tartar army. Moreover one infected man could carry the poison to others, and infect people and places with the disease by look alone. No one knew, or could discover, a means of defense.
“Thus almost everyone who had been in the East, or in the regions to the south and north, fell victim to sudden death after contracting this pestilential disease, as if struck by a lethal arrow which raised a tumor on their bodies. The scale of the mortality and the form which it took persuaded those who lived, weeping and lamenting, through the bitter events of 1346 to 1348—the Chinese, Indians, Persians, Medes, Kurds, Armenians, Cilicians, Georgians, Mesopotamians, Nubians, Ethiopians, Turks, Egyptians, Arabs, Saracens and Greeks (for almost all the East has been affected)—that the last judgement had come.
“…As it happened, among those who escaped from Caffa by boat were a few sailors who had been infected with the poisonous disease. Some boats were bound for Genoa, others went to Venice and to other Christian areas. When the sailors reached these places and mixed with the people there, it was as if they had brought evil spirits with them: every city, every settlement, every place was poisoned by the contagious pestilence, and their inhabitants, both men and women, died suddenly. And when one person had contracted the illness, he poisoned his whole family even as he fell and died, so that those preparing to bury his body were seized by death in the same way. Thus death entered through the windows, and as cities and towns were depopulated their inhabitants mourned their dead neighbours.” (Reproduced with permission from Horrox, pp. 16–20 [4])
The account closes with an extended description of the plague in Piacenza, and a reprise of the apocalyptic vision with which it begins.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/8/9/01-0536_article
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I read that in 1313, the Khan of Western Half (White Horde) became a Muslim and also his successors. The question is are they true followers?
Siege of Caffa happened under his rule:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jani_Beg
His portrait:
(https://i.ibb.co/Wp42Yqn/JaniBeg.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rfRw1Tk)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde
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@NuminousSun
"Are you aware that there is a theory that Khan's Golden Horde used catapults to fling diseased dead bodies into cities they were laying siege to, including the diseased bodies of cattle?"
Yes, though this tactic was also used by others during the same period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare#Middle_Ages
At the siege of Thun-l'Évêque in 1340, during the Hundred Years' War, the attackers catapulted decomposing animals into the besieged area.[12]
and even later:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare#17th_and_18th_century
The last known incident of using plague corpses for biological warfare occurred in 1710, when Russian forces attacked the Swedes by flinging plague-infected corpses over the city walls of Reval (Tallinn).[14]
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@90sRetroFan, @NumiousSun
Could Golden Horde be a part that corrupted Islam and had others see Islamists as invaders?
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Could Golden Horde be a part that corrupted Islam and had others see Islamists as invaders?
Mohammed's teachings were already corrupted by the time the Uthmanic Koran was written centuries before the Golden Horde. But if you mean whether or not the Golden Horde contributed to further corruption, this would have to be answered case-by-case for individual powerful converts. But I would consider it likely that the infusion of Mongol bloodlines into Islamic societies would have increased their proportion of Turanian blood, and this could have facilitated subsequent popularization of bad habits in Islamic societies. Yet similar infusion of Mongol bloodlines would have occurred also in non-Islamic societies invaded by the Golden Horde, therefore I see no initial reason to assume that Islamic societies were more affected than others.
A good way to test the theory would be to compare Islamic societies in places that the Golden Horde never reached with Islamic societies in places invaded by the Golden Horde, as well as the corresponding non-Islamic societies.
The perception of Islamists as invaders is mostly due to the Carolingian cycle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_of_France
Originally, the Matter of France contained tales of war and martial valour, being focused on the conflict between the Franks and Saracens or Moors during the period of Charles Martel and Charlemagne. The Chanson de Roland, for example, is about the Battle of Roncevaux Pass during the Moorish invasion of southern France.
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China insists Genghis Khan exhibit not use words 'Genghis Khan'
Museum in Nantes pulls show after intervention by Beijing, which comes as Communist party hardens discrimination against ethnic Mongols
A French museum has postponed an exhibit about the Mongol emperor Genghis Khan citing interference by the Chinese government, which it accuses of trying to rewrite history.
The Château des ducs de Bretagne history museum in the western city of Nantes said it was putting the show about the fearsome 13th century leader on hold for over three years.
The museum’s director, Bertrand Guillet, said: “We made the decision to stop this production in the name of the human, scientific and ethical values that we defend.”
Inner Mongolia protests at China's plans to bring in Mandarin-only lessons
Read more
It said the Chinese authorities demanded that certain words, including “Genghis Khan,” “Empire” and “Mongol” be taken out of the show. Subsequently they asked for power over exhibition brochures, legends and maps.
The spat comes as the Chinese government has hardened its discrimination against ethnic Mongols, many of whom live in the northern province of Inner Mongolia.
The exhibit was planned in collaboration with the Inner Mongolia Museum in Hohhot, China. But tensions arose, the Nantes museum said, when the Chinese Bureau of Cultural Heritage pressured the museum for changes to the original plan, “including notably elements of biased rewriting of Mongol culture in favour of a new national narrative”.
The museum branded it “censorship” and said it underlined a “hardening … of the position of the Chinese government against the Mongolian minority”.
The Chinese consulate in Paris did not immediately return calls for comment.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/14/china-insists-genghis-khan-exhibit-not-use-words-genghis-khan
Can you really discriminate against racists though? Aren't racists initiators of discrimination?
Turanian blood memory in action:
Rampant racism a growing problem in Mongolia
Racism is becoming ever more common in Mongolia, where extreme, right-wing nationalist groups target especially Chinese citizens. They are not afraid of resorting to violence.
https://www.dw.com/en/rampant-racism-a-growing-problem-in-mongolia/a-15888287
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https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/11/10/report-xi-jinping-ordering-erasure-of-genghis-khan-from-chinese-history/
“During the past month, fourteen stone tablets summarizing the life story of Genghis Khan and his achievements were painted over or destroyed in Genghis Khan Square in the Hailar district of Hulun Buir prefecture-level city, in Inner Mongolia. Protests of the local population were ignored,” Bitter Winter revealed on November 7.
“In a middle school in Hexigten Banner under the jurisdiction of the prefecture-level city of Chifen, also in Inner Mongolia, portraits of Genghis Khan and slogans promoting Mongolian culture have been replaced
Good work, but is Xi willing to do the same with (the far more common) material all over China promoting Western civilization? (Of course he is not.) If not, why not? (Answer: Eurocentrism.)
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/psychological-decolonization/
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Well, at least it's better than nothing. Turanians such as Richard Spencer (Gentile) exalt Genghis Khan as a "great conqueror".
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Mongol Army: How it All Started
The Kings and Generals animated historical documentary series on the Mongol History continues with a video on the evolution of the Mongol armies, showing how the steppe horsemen bands turned into the most fearsome army in the world by Genghis khan and would create the largest empire until up to that point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bvJKJgESP4
Mongols Season 1 Full - from Genghis to Kublai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzatw32j-i4
Subutai - Genghis's Greatest General DOCUMENTARY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS9MgymLtxQ
How did the Mongols Conquer Strongholds and Cities?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es2khuXqoeE
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Time for an uplifting story:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)#Mamluk_period
The Mongol Empire reached Palestine for the first time in 1260, beginning with the Mongol raids into Palestine under Nestorian Christian general Kitbuqa, and reaching an apex at the pivotal Battle of Ain Jalut, where they were pushed back by the Mamluks.[77]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut
The battle marked the height of the extent of Mongol conquests, and was the first time a Mongol advance had ever been permanently beaten back in direct combat on the battlefield.[13]
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It also marked the first of two defeats the Mongols would face in their attempts to invade Egypt and the Levant, the other being the Battle of Marj al-Saffar in 1303.
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In 1260, Hulagu sent envoys to Qutuz in Cairo with a letter demanding his surrender that read:
From the King of Kings of the East and West, the Great Khan. To Qutuz the Mamluk, who fled to escape our swords. You should think of what happened to other countries and submit to us. You have heard how we have conquered a vast empire and have purified the earth of the disorders that tainted it. We have conquered vast areas, massacring all the people. You cannot escape from the terror of our armies. Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor armies stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations. Only those who beg our protection will be safe. Hasten your reply before the fire of war is kindled. Resist and you will suffer the most terrible catastrophes. We will shatter your mosques and reveal the weakness of your God and then will kill your children and your old men together. At present you are the only enemy against whom we have to march.
— Hulagu, [23]
Qutuz responded, however, by killing the envoys and displaying their heads on Bab Zuweila, one of the gates of Cairo.[14]
This is how you communicate with Turanians.
The first to advance were the Mongols, whose force also included troops from the Kingdom of Georgia and about 500 troops from the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia, both of which had submitted to Mongol authority. The Mamluks had the advantage of knowing the terrain, and Qutuz capitalized on that by hiding the bulk of his force in the highlands and hoping to bait the Mongols with a smaller force, under Baibars.
Both armies fought for many hours, with Baibars usually implementing hit-and-run tactics to provoke the Mongol troops and to preserve the bulk of his troops intact. When the Mongols carried out another heavy assault, Baibars, who it is said had laid out the overall strategy of the battle since he had spent much time in that region earlier in his life as a fugitive, and his men feigned a final retreat to draw the Mongols into the highlands to be ambushed by the rest of the Mamluk forces concealed among the trees. The Mongol leader, Kitbuqa, already provoked by the constant fleeing of Baibars and his troops, committed a grave mistake. Instead of suspecting a trick, Kitbuqa decided to march forward with all of his troops on the trail of the fleeing Mamluks. When the Mongols reached the highlands, Mamluk forces emerged from hiding and began to fire arrows and attack with their cavalry. The Mongols then found themselves surrounded on all sides. Additionally, Timothy May hypothesizes that a key moment in the battle was the defection of the Mongol Syrian allies.[29]
The Mongol army fought very fiercely and very aggressively to break out. Some distance away, Qutuz watched with his private legion. When Qutuz saw the left wing of the Mamluk army almost destroyed by the desperate Mongols seeking an escape route, he threw away his combat helmet, so that his warriors could recognize him. He was seen the next moment rushing fiercely towards the battlefield yelling wa islamah! ("Oh my Islam"), urging his army to keep firm and advancing towards the weakened side, followed by his own unit. The Mongols were pushed back and fled to a vicinity of Beisan, followed by Qutuz's forces, but they managed to reorganize and to return to the battlefield, making a successful counterattack. However, the battle shifted toward the Mamluks, who now had both the geographic and psychological advantage, and some of the Mongols were eventually forced to retreat. Kitbuqa, with almost the rest of the Mongol army that had remained in the region, perished.
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The Muslim Mamluks have defeated the Mongols in all battles except one. Beside a victory to the Mamluks in Ain Jalut, the Mongols were defeated in the second Battle of Homs, Elbistan and Marj al-Saffar. After five battles with the Mamluks, the Mongols only won at the Battle of Wadi al-Khaznadar.[34] They never returned to Syria again.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Coat_of_arms_of_the_Mamluk_Sultan_of_Egypt.svg/315px-Coat_of_arms_of_the_Mamluk_Sultan_of_Egypt.svg.png)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Allahu_akbar_Kufic.svg/200px-Allahu_akbar_Kufic.svg.png)
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How Genghis Khan Wanted to Cheat Death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YBa66ooiIo
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Why and How the Mongols became Muslim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esuvYHZe22c
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How the Mongols Lost China - Medieval History Animated DOCUMENTARY
The Kings and Generals animated historical documentary series on Mongol History continues with a video explaining how and why thee Mongols lost China and the Yuan dynasty was kicked out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCgGoYGjeds
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What do Mongolians think of stereotypes?
https://youtu.be/uxmSKTMFK0U
@0:45 "We are also known for our love of meat"
@3:33 "We love to eat meat"
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Lol! Wow!
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How the Mongols Lost Russia - Medieval History Animated DOCUMENTARY
The Kings and Generals animated historical documentary series on Mongol History continues with a video explaining how and why the Mongols lost Russia and the Golden Horde was destroyed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClcbdD-YUU8
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From what I read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_Empire
The founder of the Mughal Empire, Babur, was a descendant of Timur and Genghis Khan through his father and mother respectively.
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Yes, but his grandson Akbar appears to have had some Aryan blood (God knows how), as he promoted vegetarianism and outlawed cattle slaughter..
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"Akbar appears to have had some Aryan blood (God knows how)"
My guess:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maham_Begum
She was the mother of Babur's eldest surviving son and eventual successor, Humayun.
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Historian Annette Beveridge calls this family "quiet, unwarlike Khwajas". Babur also references a certain Abdul Malik Khosti who may also have been a relation of Maham's, though this is not certain.[3]
Abu'l-Fazl ibn Mubarak, the vizier of her grandson Akbar, states that Maham was from a noble family of Khorasan, descendants of the 11th century Sufi mystic Sheikh Ahmad Jami. This was a lineage that she shared with her daughter-in-law, Hamida Banu Begum.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamida_Banu_Begum
Hamida Banu Begum (c. 1527 – 29 August 1604), was the queen consort of the second Mughal emperor Humayun and the mother of his successor, the third Mughal emperor Akbar.[1][2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Ahmad-e_Jami
He was born in 1048 (441 A.H.) in Namaq (now Kashmar) near Torshiz in Khorasan, and counted Jarir Ibn Abdullah, a companion (Sahaba) of Prophet Mohammad as one of his ancestors. His parents made their living by farming.
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This is why it is important to emphasize Indo-Arab relations (which has a rich history from the Ancient Times to the Middle Ages to the present day) as a counterweight to the Pakistanis (who LARP as Turkic invaders). Once we see the difference between the two ethnic groups, I hope Islamophobia itself in the subcontinent will die down.
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Meanwhile back in the present day:
(https://incels.is/attachments/images-19-jpeg.896842/)
::)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eATr7e03N6w
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Khan#Early_life_and_education
Agha Muhammad Yahya Khan was born in Chakwal, Punjab, British India,[5] in a Qizilbash family on 4 February 1917, according to the references written by Russian sources.[6][7] His family descended from the elite soldier class of Iranian conqueror Nader Shah.[8] He and his family were of Pashtun origin.[9][10][11][12][13][14][15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nader_Shah#Background
Nader belonged to the Turkoman Afshar tribe, which was one of the seven tribes[a] of the Qizilbash who helped the Safavid dynasty establish their power in Iran.[15][16] The Afshar tribe had originally lived in the Turkestan region, but during the 13rd-century they moved to the Azerbaijan region in northwestern Iran as a result of the expansion of the Mongol Empire.[17] Nader was from the semi-nomadic Qirqlu clan of the Afshars, which lived in the Khorasan region of northeastern Iran. They had either settled there during the reign of the first Safavid Shah Ismail I (r. 1501–1524), or had been resettled by Shah Abbas I (r. 1588–1629) to fend off Uzbek attacks. Regardless, Afshars moving to Khorasan was already taking place by start of the 16th-century.[18][19]
Nader's native tongue was a southern Oghuz dialect, i.e. "Turkish of Azerbaijan".[20] As he was growing up, he must have swiftly learned Persian, which was the language of the cities and high culture. But unless he was speaking to someone who spoke only Persian, he always preferred to communicate in Turkic.[21] His knowledge of Arabic is not documented, but it seems doubtful given his lack of interest in literature and theology.[22] Nader is known to have acquired reading and writing skills at some point in its life, probably later on.[21]
Approximately three million people or more were nomadic or semi-nomadic pastoralists in Iran in the beginning of the 18th-century, accounting for one-third of the country's population. Strong ties of kinship as well as customs of helping each other out with fights and finances kept their tribal groups united. Despite being partially or fully absorbed into the more progressive, urbanized Persian culture, many of them nevertheless identified culturally with the Turco-Mongol heritage that had been passed down from the era of Timur and Genghis Khan. The settled population was seen by the semi-nomads and nomads as inferior. Nader was part of this heritage, which the British academic Michael Axworthy calls "paradoxical".[21]
Shah should not be described as an Iranian, but a Turanian.
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LOL:
https://twitter.com/arya_amsha/status/1591107821948768259?t=kW1Xia-6n3D_6EWHdO3Gqw&s=19
Mongolian chronicles sometimes traced the genealogy of Genghis Khan back to the first mythical Kings of India. He was also said to belong to the same lineage as the Buddha Shakyamuni, and hence would technically be a Suryavanshi Kshatriya
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhS_zypUAAohcjN?format=png&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhS_8cMUAAo_33p?format=png&name=large)
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https://twitter.com/BiruniKhorasan/status/1738132831967055958
History of Khorâsan and the Persianate World
@BiruniKhorasan
Timur wasn’t an “Muslim imperialist” but a steppe conqueror. His role model was Genghis Khan not Prophet Muhammad. He butchered more Muslims (mostly indiscriminately and for little reason) than non-Muslims.
Using a historical barbarian to justify your own barbarism is stupidity.
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Swann Marcus
@SwannMarcus89
He wasn't Arab, but if we're talking about Muslim imperialists, Timur alone killed several million people at a time when there were only 300-400 million in the entire world
He died less than a century before Columbus' voyage. Why was European imperialism worse than his?
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To answer the question:
He died less than a century before Columbus' voyage. Why was European imperialism worse than his?
both Timur and Genghis subjugated Mongols as well as non-Mongols. Columbus etc., in contrast, never subjugated "whites", but at the same time saw no problem with subjugating "non-whites". This is why the latter are worse. The Western colonial empires treated "whites" even from rival Western colonial empires visiting their colonies better than "non-whites" of their own empire who lived in the same colonies.
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https://twitter.com/DalrympleWill/status/1125482695369400322
William Dalrymple
@DalrympleWill
If you mention Babur on twitter a million sanghis pop up to say Babur was a terrorist jihadi... In fact he never uses the word Allah, prefering the term Tengri- the sky deity worshipped by steppe peoples. According to his biographer Stephen Dale, "Babur scarcely refers to Islam."