True Left

Ideology => True Left vs False Left => Topic started by: guest5 on October 31, 2020, 12:55:07 am


Title: Western Democracy
Post by: guest5 on October 31, 2020, 12:55:07 am
Millennials are losing faith in democracy, study suggests
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Satisfaction was bad in the United States, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa, France, Australia and the United Kingdom, the study found.
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Young people are less satisfied with democracy and more disillusioned than at any other time in the past century, especially in Europe, North America, Africa and Australia, a study by the University of Cambridge has found.
Millennials, or those born between 1981 and 1996, are more disillusioned than Generation X, those born between 1965 and 1981, or Baby Boomers born between 1944 and 1964 and the Interwar Generation of 1918-1943.
"Across the world, younger generations are not only more dissatisfied with democratic performance than the old, but also more discontented than previous generations at similar life stages," the Cambridge study found.

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The picture is bad in the United States, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa, France, Australia and the United Kingdom.

But satisfaction has increased in Germany, South Korea and many of the post-Communist countries of Central and Eastern Europe.
The main reason behind the disillusion with democracy among young people was inequality of wealth and income, the report said, citing figures showing that Millennials make up around a quarter of the US population but hold just 3% of the wealth. Baby Boomers held 21% of the wealth at the same age.

The study suggested that the populist challenge to mainstream, "establishment" politics could actually help improve democratic engagement by shocking moderate parties and leaders into reversing the decay.
The Cambridge Centre for the Future of Democracy delved into data from more than 4.8 million respondents collected across 160 countries between 1973 and 2020.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/20/world/millennial-democracy-satisfaction-intl-scli/index.html
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 04, 2020, 03:09:56 am
Imagine living in a country where we didn't have to go through the stress of elections once every few years. How relaxing would that be? How much more time for ourselves we would have?

Imagine furthermore all the money saved from not having to do any election campaigning, which could instead be spent on actually helping those in need.




Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 04, 2020, 11:32:59 pm
Mainstream journalists are finally starting to get it:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/democrats-look-trump-voters-wonder-000638494.html

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The Trump victory in 2016 was blurry, and therefore relatively easy for people to distance themselves from larger meaning. Hillary Clinton, the logic went, had singular vulnerabilities. There was Russian interference. Lots of Trump voters likely didn’t think he was going to win but were eager to use their votes to send a message of protest to the establishment of both parties. Plenty of people regarded his persona as a flamboyant put-on, and assumed he would embrace moderation and restraint in the event he was invested with real responsibility.

The 2020 results remain blurry but the central question on the table in this election was vividly clear. Is Trump’s norm-shattering governing style OK with you? Former president Barack Obama framed it sharply in at the summer convention: “That’s what’s at stake right now—our democracy.”

Here is an uncomfortable reality for Obama and anyone who agreed with his words. Trump is on track to grow his popular vote total by millions of people, not one of whom could have been under any illusions about what they were voting for. Unlike 2016, there is no way to dismiss this as a flukish accident of democracy, or an illegitimate manipulation of democracy. His support was a robust expression of democracy.

We have been saying this from the beginning. It is obvious that Trump could never have become head of state if he had been born in China. What made it possible for him to become head of state in the US?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: rp on November 07, 2020, 11:28:18 am
"Imagine living in a country where we didn't have to go through the stress of elections once every few years. How relaxing would that be?"
The stress levels are unbearable. Especially given what's at stake this time around.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest5 on November 07, 2020, 01:09:53 pm
$14 billion spent on election instead of people – Wolff
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US presidential candidates have spent $14 billion on this election cycle, making it the most expensive election in history. But more money will be poured into new legal battles over state recounts for both Joe Biden and Donald Trump's campaigns. The markets are responding to this uncertainty. Economics professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst Richard Wolff breaks it down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5FNqYpfBPM
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest5 on November 10, 2020, 11:56:24 pm
Why Socrates Hated Democracy
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We’re used to thinking hugely well of democracy. But interestingly, one of the wisest people who ever lived, Socrates, had deep suspicions of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLJBzhcSWTk&t=13s

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Jason Matson
6 days ago
Fast forward to today & his pessimism is clearly justified
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Starling on November 11, 2020, 03:08:24 am
                    It's not a democracy, one of those little fish is the leader.
(https://newsguild.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/dont-panic-organize-seo-1.jpg)

(https://image.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/compositions/T348A348PA3200PT17X170Y10D103883192FS2507PA3202PT17X97Y8D103864639FS595/views/1,width=650,height=650,appearanceId=348.jpg)
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 17, 2020, 10:24:34 pm
OLD CONTENT

"Why is democracy still revered among leftists?"

Because the False Left suffers from severe cognitive dissonance, which I believe was deliberately engineered back in the mid-20th century. I think a lot of it has to do with the case for decolonization being made in terms of: "the colonized populations attaining democracy". Most colonies wanting independence made the fatal mistake (often under the disingenuous advice of Freemasons, including plenty of Jews) of arguing for independence by pointing out that colonial rule meant that the colonial subjects (having no suffrage) were being denied democracy. This of course was moronic: if they were sincere, they should have demanded empire citizenship (and hence suffrage) for all colonial subjects (thereby transforming the colonial empire into an ordinary empire), not independence. But the colonial powers cunningly accepted this stupid argument and gave the colonies (superficial) independence, thereby linking anti-colonialism (what started as a leftist concern) with democracy (a feature of Western civilization) in the common mind, thus effectively perverting mainstream anti-colonialism into a pro-Western(!) movement, along the lines of: "The colonized populations can become better Westerners by becoming voters in independent countries than by remaining as non-voting colonial subjects!"

"Why is there still a negative connotation associated with autocracy?"

Because False Leftists have cut themselves off from ancient thinking. They shallowly associate historical autocracies with liberal words such as "privileged" or "entitled", instead of seeing in them the only hope for ever truly achieving leftist causes (which is all that is meant by ancient non-Westerners once believing absolute monarchs to be living gods).

"How do we distinguish from those who make pro democratic arguments with subversive motives (Jews), and those who do so simply because they are unradicalized (Aryans)?"

We do not need to do so. We can debate against both categories in the same way. As I keep saying, a debate is not about trying to persuade your opponent that you are correct, but about trying to show the audience the inferiority of your opponent compared to yourself, thus winning over the audience. Whether the inferiority of your opponent is caused by subversive motives or by sheer delusion need be of no concern to you.

(By the way, I would not use the term "Aryan" to describe anyone who is pro-democracy. Farms are run not by majority opinion but by expert opinion. It is indeed our contention that autocracy originated as part of the Neolithic Revolution.)

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/aryan-monarchism/
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: rp on November 18, 2020, 02:57:50 am
Just listened to this gem again:
John Alan Martinson Jr - Monarchism The Last Bastille Podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhoYbdVMg9M
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on December 11, 2020, 02:49:31 am
Now that mainstream leftists are finally able to accuse Trump of a coup, False Leftists are once again completely screwing up their framing of the scenario. They accuse Trump of being anti-democracy while portraying Trump critics as pro-democracy, as if only pro-democracy people could oppose Trump.

Firstly, is Trump anti-democracy? No. Trump (who loves being popular) would surely prefer to have won the election cleanly than have to resort to trying to invalidate the election results. It is only because the results did not go Trump's way that he is falling back on invalidating the election results in an attempt to retain power. And even then Trump is claiming to be the winner of the election, in other words he is still reinforcing the notion that winning the election is what should determine leadership; he is merely lying about who won. In other words, Trump is fundamentally pro-democracy, but just in a dishonest way. (In contrast, an actual anti-democrat would argue that it is wrong for popularity to determine leadership.)

Secondly, is it logically necessary to be pro-democracy in order to oppose Trump? No. If we could travel back in time to end democracy in 2016 and let Obama directly choose his own successor (who would at least not have been Trump), we would do so rather than let Trump win in 2016. False Leftists probably would not, but this only proves that if anything we oppose Trump more strongly than False Leftists do, since False Leftists would prefer to maintain democracy than keep Trump away from power.

Which brings me onto the main point. We are in this mess right now because of democracy. It is because the US has elections in the first place that it opens itself up to the possibility of election results being disputed. If the US did not have elections at all, no one can claim the leader at any time is illegitimate on account of cheating because there is no space left open for cheating to begin with. You can like or dislike Xi, but no one can claim he became the leader of China by cheating. It is only in countries with elections that the situation can arise where the apparent election loser can claim the apparent election winner cheated. To focus on whether or not the claim is true is already missing to point. On this particular occasion (Trump claiming Biden cheated) the claim is obviously false. But on another occasion (e.g. Abrams claiming Kemp cheated) the claim may be true. The point, however, is that the belief in popularity as the determinant of suitability for leadership is what permits such claims - true or false - to be made at any time someone doesn't like the results. As True Leftists, we should be focusing on fixing the system so that neither cheating nor allegations of cheating are any longer possible. Eliminating elections is not the only ingredient of the fix, but is by far the most obvious.

Autocracy was preferred by the ancients (including throughout the New World before Western civilization showed up) precisely to avoid the situation like the one we are currently experiencing. This elementary wisdom is what we should be getting back to.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Prite on December 13, 2020, 06:11:54 am
I think you should see how "democracy" and "populism" have similar hanzi in Chinese.

Democracy is translated to be
民主.

Populism is translated to be
民粹主义.

Japanese and Korean just borrow populism from English.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 13, 2021, 11:09:44 pm
False Leftists never stopped being Westerners. They fundamentally subscribe to the narrative that the invention and spread of democracy represents historical progress, thus (as avowed progressives themselves) they have no choice but to support democracy. Herein is also the inherent self-contradiction within False Leftist minds. They may outwardly reject the claim of Western superiority, yet by being pro-democracy (among other attitudes) inwardly affirm their actual belief in Western superiority, given that Western civilization was the only civilization in all of world history with a significant democratic (or, more broadly, anti-monarchist) tradition. But instead of confronting this self-contradiction with intellectual honesty, False Leftists attempt to dig up (at best obscure and at worst illusory) historical blips - never enough to be considered a tradition - of vaguely electoral activity in non-Western civilizations in order to bolster a thoroughly contrived claim (which neither rightists nor True Leftists believe) that "all civilizations were progressing towards democracy all along", instead of admitting that the prevalence of democracy worldwide today is (as rightists and True Leftists academically agree on) almost entirely an effect of Westernization from the colonial era onwards, and would never have occurred absent the colonial era. Because if they were to admit this, they - as fans of democracy - would have to be grateful to colonialism (ie. become rightists!).

So here it what is comes down to:

A) "Western civilization is not superior to all other civilizations."
B) "Democracy is superior to autocracy."

Challenge for False Leftists: PICK ONE. Because if you believe B), you logically cannot believe A).
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest5 on January 13, 2021, 11:54:37 pm
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A) "Western civilization is not superior to all other civilizations."
B) "Democracy is superior to autocracy."

Challenge for False Leftists: PICK ONE. Because if you believe B), you logically cannot believe A).

I was also considering creating a similar meme for False-Leftists:

Which would you prefer?:
A) A 10 year Malcolm X dictatorship, at the end of which Malcolm chooses his own successor
B) Another 4 year Trump presidency at the end of which you vote against Trumpists for the next successor

Or:

A) A 10 year Abraham Lincoln dictatorship
B) 4 years of Trump as president

Doesn't quite have the effect of your argument and choice logic yet though, still thinking about it....
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Killthebank on January 19, 2021, 11:59:11 pm
Not sure if this belongs in this thread but:

https://www.polygon.com/2016/3/15/11231850/ubisoft-editorial-user-research-scientists-fun

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134870/focus_groups_testing_and_.php

These articles are about using focus groups to create video games. This is akin to developing a game democratically instead of the project manager and his team of experts in their respective field (programming, artwork, level design, etc.) This is the reason the quality of video games has dropped; they are boring and empty. That and the fact that the publishers want to maximize profit so they try to please everyone and end up satisfying no one.

I like how the second article says Nintendo snubbed their focus groups. They've almost always know what they're doing.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 20, 2021, 01:44:42 am
Good analogy!

Just as I keep telling people who dislike an autocratic country to simply emigrate instead of trying to change it into a democratic country, the same advice applies to gamers: if you dislike a particular game, just don't buy it, and buy a different one instead! The artistic duty of game developers is to stay true to their original vision for the game, irrespective of whether the game is a commercial success or not.

"I like how the second article says Nintendo snubbed their focus groups. They've almost always know what they're doing."

At least until the N64 and subsequent 3D consoles.....

Here we have Nintendo being influenced not by popular opinion, but by (Western) futurists who claimed that games must go 3D in order to keep pace (why, FFS??) with the computational power to handle 3D. In short, Nintendo avoided the democracy trap but fell into the progressivism trap.

So listening to expert opinion over majority opinion is just the first step; next comes the challenge of deciding which experts to listen to.....

(By the way, if you want to talk about 2D games, please feel welcome to do so here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/ )
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest5 on January 21, 2021, 01:40:01 am
Just listened to this gem again:
John Alan Martinson Jr - Monarchism The Last Bastille Podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhoYbdVMg9M

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Retrobensan
5 hours ago (edited)
The way things have transpired over the years and lately in America i'll pretty much take a monarchy over a degenerate republic any day.

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Who was called King of Kings?
Jesus Christ
"King of Kings" (βασιλεὺς τῶν βασιλευόντων) is used in reference to Jesus Christ

:)
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Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. [28] Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest5 on February 08, 2021, 08:13:16 pm
Only About 3.5 Percent of Americans Care About Democracy
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A recent study reveals that vanishingly few voters will defect from a candidate who acts undemocratically.

You wouldn't know it listening to U.S. media though would you? Listening to Western media you could easily arrive at the conclusion that everyone agrees that democracy is the best thing that has ever happened to humankind, right?
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Imagine a candidate you like. This politician has everything: the right positions on taxes, abortion, foreign policy, immigration; sound judgment; enough personal probity to be trusted with your wallet, house keys, or email password. Now imagine that that candidate does or says something antidemocratic. For no particular reason, she shuts down polling stations. Or at a rally, she tells supporters that a particular journalist—standing over there, in the Men’s Wearhouse sport coat—is asking too many questions and might deserve to get rabbit-punched on the way to his car. Care to change your vote?

This purely theoretical scenario, which of course bears no relationship to anything that has happened or is happening in American politics, is the subject of an article in the American Political Science Review by Matthew H. Graham and Milan W. Svolik of Yale University. How much do voters really care about democracy? Nearly all Americans say democracy matters. But how many will actually punish their preferred candidate and withhold a vote when that candidate does something undemocratic?

Graham and Svolik’s answer: About 3.5 percent of voters will defect from a candidate whom they otherwise support, but who does something destructive of democratic norms. Those 3.5 percent come from the right and the left in equal proportions, but they tend to be moderates. (Self-described “independents”—those mysterious, yeti-like creatures who profess to have no political preference at all—vote slightly more like extremists.) If you value democracy, hug a moderate.
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“If you just ask people whether they like democracy, there’s a social norm that says they have to answer yes,” Svolik told me. They have been conditioned since grade school to say “democracy is good, 10 out of 10—and we should also stop global warming and save the whales and whatever.” He and Graham surveyed 1,691 people and posed instead a version of the hypothetical question I asked above: You say you like democracy, but will you sacrifice other things you like on its behalf, by withholding your vote for a democracy-bashing candidate? “Some will, but the punishment is small,” Svolik said: those willing to vote for the opposing candidate often do so only if he is similar to the candidate they intended to support in the first place. That means partisanship encourages more antidemocratic action: Stronger partisans will let the thuggishness slide, if they would have to sacrifice more than a small portion of their positions. The greater the number of strong partisan voters and politicians, the smaller the punishment for violating democratic norms, and the more likely the norm-breaker is to get elected.

Read more: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/few-americans-care-about-democracy/616534/
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on February 10, 2021, 11:11:49 pm
(https://i1.wp.com/www.occidentaldissent.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Et3YhDXXMAMLBX8.jpg?w=667)

Ethical improvements are made by ignoring majority opinion, not by following it.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on February 16, 2021, 10:26:40 pm
Democracy is the enemy of Cancel Culture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLVbXIYkh5k
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest5 on March 19, 2021, 05:28:44 pm
It is not up to the U.S. alone to evaluate its democracy: Yang Jiechi
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A high-level strategic dialogue between China and the United States is underway in Anchorage, Alaska, in the United States. Yang Jiechi, a member of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee and director of the Office of the Foreign Affairs Commission of the CPC Central Committee, is attending the meeting, saying it is not just up to the U.S., but also the world to evaluate how the U.S. has done in advancing its own democracy. #China​ #US​ #dialogue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETOfymWVShM

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The French Revolution (French: Révolution française [ʁevɔlysjɔ̃ fʁɑ̃sɛːz]) refers to the period that began with the Estates General of 1789 and ended in November 1799 with the formation of the French Consulate. Many of its ideas are considered fundamental principles of Western liberal democracy.[1]
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Origins in the French Revolution

The terms "left" and "right" appeared during the French Revolution of 1789 when members of the National Assembly divided into supporters of the king to the president's right and supporters of the revolution to his left.[6] One deputy, the Baron de Gauville, explained: "We began to recognize each other: those who were loyal to religion and the king took up positions to the right of the chair so as to avoid the shouts, oaths, and indecencies that enjoyed free rein in the opposing camp".[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum

The Pan-Gnostic Left, or "True Left" as we like to call it, has roots in the dawn of civilization itself, which obviously happened long before the French Revolution....
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest5 on March 26, 2021, 10:05:34 pm
Democracy is working as intended, it is not broken! This is the system Judeo-Greco-Westerners believe is the best system of government ever invented, and for the cowardly politician type it is exactly that! Democracy allows cowards and criminals to gain positions of power in government. This is why criminals and cowards love democracy!

US, Israel, EU election farces or ‘Allies of sovereignty’ – Iran, China, Russia?
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Too bad the elections for European Parliament aren’t this year - we could have enjoyed all three tones of the chord of “liberal (aristocratic) democracy”.

The United States, the European Union and Israel - the triumvirate which dominates half the world and thinks it has the moral and intellectual right to rule the other half - obviously have incredibly flawed, domestically-denigrated and politically feckless elections. As time goes on the world can only be increasingly attracted to innovative alternative political models because this trio is so endemically dysfunctional.

In Israel voters just chose between the war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu or those who claim to be the colonizers who are the “sane” alternative. This election sham will likely need to be repeated for the fifth time in two years, but only a few thick Westerners ever claimed Israel is a democracy, anyway.

Thirty years after the United States penned the structures of the European Union - in a rush of Cold War euphoria and arrogance - there may not be elections which are as meaningless and uninteresting to the actual voting public as those for EU Parliament.

The United States’ recent election was as bad as anyone could have expected, and Americans themselves expected the worst more often than anyone. So I don’t know why France-raised US Secretary of State Antony Blinken thought the last months and years of American carnage and discontent would go unnoticed abroad?

When Blinken assumed a Parisian pose of oblivious nonchalance at the first China-US summit and tried to shame China for not being Western enough, China was ready: his counterpart, Yang Jiechi, delivered an impromptu, blistering, 17-minute critique of America which was redolent of Mao’s era.

In short, Yang’s rebuttal contained well-known and totally accurate critiques of America’s capitalist-imperialist and liberal democratic structures. From “massacring the people of other countries” to the obvious “slaughtering” of African-Americans and beyond, Yang listed a poisonous cornucopia of the inevitable social evils which arise from such outdated social structures.

China’s standing up to the new administration in Washington - and at the very first opportunity - will mark a sea change in geopolitical affairs. China knew it was going to be targeted - as a welcoming gift Biden placed sanctions on two dozen Chinese officials just prior to the landing of their diplomats - and they eagerly responded with, “Let’s fight - ideologically - because it’s clear you don’t have a solid leg to stand on anymore.”
Entire article: https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2021/03/26/648120/US-Israel-EU-election-Iran-China-Russia
(https://cdn.presstv.com/Photo/2021/3/26/e487ee7d-8a2e-41dd-8ff5-23cd59c92736.jpg)
I'm glad democracy is giving the people who support it the most a headache, because watching you assholes operate on the world stage on a daily basis gives sane people a massive headache as well!
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest5 on March 27, 2021, 09:17:53 pm
Putin thinks democracy not fit for the future, US President Joe Biden claims amid growing diplomatic row with Russian counterpart
https://www.rt.com/russia/519392-putin-democracy-biden-row/

I wonder how many more Trumps it would take to change Biden's mind, if he's indeed capable of such a thing? Biden knows 75 million Westerners voted for Trump in the U.S., does he not? So, what is Biden's excuse for his dishonorable attitude?

SERIOUSLY: CAN WE PLEASE KEEP OLD "WHITE" MEN OUT OF POLITICS PERMANENTLY, THE PLANET WOULD BE MUCH BETTER OFF FOR IT!!!
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on May 05, 2021, 03:21:44 am
Why democracy must be eliminated:

https://barenakedislam.com/2021/05/04/france-polls-say-that-nearly-50-of-french-public-back-military-intervention-in-government-to-eradicate-islamic-extremism-and-restore-security-in-the-country/

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Two dozen retired French generals, dozens of other officers, and hundreds of private soldiers signed the open letter to the president and government in April. The signatories condemned “the disintegration that plagues the homeland, the hatred between communities fueled by a kind of anti-racism, Islamic extremism and suburban hordes that have forced a part of the country under dogmas that are unconstitutional.”

They warned that if the government failed to act “that they are ready to support politicians who are concerned with preserving the nation”.

According to Harris Interactive published by LCI, 58 percent of the French respondents agree with the contents of the letter. Nearly half (49 percent) of those surveyed would support military intervention to “restore order”. Less than a third think the signatories should be sanctioned, as French Defense Secretary Florence Parly proposed.
...
The poll also found that 74% of respondents agreed that anti-racism ultimately leads to hatred between individual ethnic and religious groups.

In other words, the supermajority prefer racism. Thus:

Quote
Le Pen, head of the National Assembly, who is polled to win the first round of next year’s presidential election similar to the 2017 vote, assured dissatisfied soldiers on Tuesday of her support and asked them to vote for her next year.

Is this the result that False Leftists want? If not, why do they continue to defend democracy?
Title: Re: Squad
Post by: Zea_mays on May 18, 2021, 10:11:20 pm
AOC has already derailed her anti-apartheid rhetoric as well.

(https://i.redd.it/7wl7n5bfbdz61.jpg)
https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1393673695433043976

Zionists in Israel vote to continue apartheid and ethnic cleansing, just as tribalists in the US voted to continue slavery, voted to disenfranchise "blacks", and voted to continue the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans. Oh yeah, and US democracy gave us Trump, US democracy has voted to make BDS illegal, and US democracy has voted to give Israel billions of dollars in military funding each year, enabling their crimes...

Moreover, what would happen in a democratic One State Solution? Zionists (including non-Jewish perpetrators of "Zionist privilege" such as "Israeli Arabs") would outvote the Palestinians and we would be right back to where we started from. (I have actually seen many dedicated anti-Zionists who know the One State Solution is the only ethically justifiable conclusion, yet doubt that it will ever be practical, because they are so Westernized that they are unable to think of the future state of Palestine as anything other than a democracy where millions of Zionists are allowed to vote!)

The Zionist argument that "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East" should only serve to heighten Israel's obvious ignobility and the fact that democracy is a supremely ethically-unsound form of government.
Title: Re: Re: Squad
Post by: guest5 on May 18, 2021, 11:35:05 pm
It boggles the mind that people can look all around them, see all the bad people dwelling among them, and then still call for democracy. If that isn't true insanity then I do not know what is. How bad do things actually need to get before we arrive at the logical conclusion that most people aren't that noble and allowing ignoble people to vote will only ever end in ignoble outcomes?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on May 19, 2021, 11:51:06 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/australia-banned-citizens-india-coming-085423693.html

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When Ara Sharma Marar’s father had a stroke in India in early April, she got on the first flight she could from her home in Melbourne, Australia to New Delhi.

She had planned to return to Australia, where she works in risk management at a bank, on May 14. But then her government banned her from coming home. Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced on April 27 that travelers from India—including citizens—were barred from the country. The government emphasized that anyone who tried to come home would face up to five years in jail and a $50,000 fine.
...
“Many Anglo-Celtic Australians still believe that we are but guests in this country and that to acknowledge us as equals they will somehow lose their Australianism,” says Molina Asthana, co-founder of advocacy group Asian Australian Alliance.
...
The hashtag #strandedaussies has been used hundreds of times on social media, and some have started referring to the country as “Fortress Australia.” One group of Australians is taking a complaint against the Australian government to the United Nations Human Rights Committee for not allowing its citizens to return home.

Nevertheless, the controls are very popular. A poll in conservative newspaper The Australian found that 73% of voters supported international borders remaining closed

So why do leftists still support democracy?
 
Quote
Australians of Indian descent feel singled out because the Australian government has not barred citizens returning home from other countries with large outbreaks. “Why weren’t these steps taken when it was America or U.K.?”

Why do you think?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on May 20, 2021, 01:56:06 pm
https://summit.news/2021/05/19/71-of-french-say-were-full-no-more-immigration/

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71% of French Say ‘We’re Full’: No More Immigration

When will leftists stop supporting democracy?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on May 20, 2021, 10:41:35 pm
Rashida Tlaib (who, as far as I can tell, was the one who took the lead by calling Israel an apartheid state a few weeks ago), and Cori Bush both repeated AOC's statement about democracy. sigh

https://twitter.com/RashidaTlaib/status/1393693207792439299

Take note of why we spend so much time examining propaganda, rhetoric, and the substance of arguments. Because things can be derailed very quickly by well-meaning people saying stupid things. Tlaib also heroically endorsed a One State Solution. But wtf does she think is going to happen in a democratic form of government?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on June 04, 2021, 10:08:17 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxT3HtyazKE

Autocracies would not have this problem.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on June 07, 2021, 12:02:26 am
False Leftists are no closer to understanding the real problem than half a year ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFlXhg5j5q4

My old post from Dec 2020 remains as relevant today as back then:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/western-democracy/msg2807/#msg2807
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: rp on June 07, 2021, 12:03:56 am
I wouldn't expect Maddow (Jew) to even try to.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on July 01, 2021, 10:20:12 pm
A Red suggestion that I agree with:

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1409964690395049986

Quote
GOP Leader McCarthy during debate on a bill to remove Confederate statues from the Capitol:

"All of the statues being removed by this bill are statues of Democrats... Maybe it's time the Democrats change the name of their party."

This is why I just call them Blues. The name "Democratic" is appropriate for describing the party back when it was further to the right than the Reds. It follows that, when the party moved to the left of the Reds during the Civil Rights movement, it should have dropped the name "Democratic". We are still waiting for it to do so. The transformation of American leftism cannot complete so long as leftists retain any attachment to democracy.
Title: Re: Climate, Weather, and Climate Effects, 2020 and Beyond
Post by: Zea_mays on July 20, 2021, 09:38:28 am
Since democratic nations have no interest in doing anything to genuinely make the tiniest of dents in global warming, I have been thinking that the impending climate crisis will be a prime opportunity to necessitate the formation of autocratic governments in Western nations. Democratic election cycles mean the can is kicked down the road every 2/4/6/8 years and bickering among political parties makes it so that no solid solution can ever be agreed upon. By the time to problem grows so massive that it is simply impossible to ignore, it will be too late (and it is already too late to avoid much of the damage).

Leftists are well-aware of this, and it will provide a reasonable justification for False Leftists to finally admit the necessity of changing to a form of government which can actually govern efficiently and with the welfare of society as a whole in mind. Indeed, all the solutions to the climate crisis are already there and have been written in plain language for decades, but as long as capitalism and democracy are in place, the solutions will never be implemented.

Quote
A team from NASA and NOAA found that Earth's "energy imbalance" doubled between 2005 and 2019. The energy imbalance is simple to understand but complex in its causes and impacts. It is the difference between the amount of energy absorbed by Earth and the amount of energy emitted by it.

Any increase in the energy imbalance means the overall Earth system is gaining energy, causing it to heat up.
https://www.sciencealert.com/our-atmosphere-s-storing-energy-twice-as-fast-as-15-years-ago

Quote
If we stopped all emissions today, the planet would warm for at LEAST a century, and very likely closer to scales of millenia. CO2 lasts for hundreds of years in the atmosphere, and then only goes into other forms of the carbon cycle slowly over thousands of years (or never).

Firstly, there is a delay in air temperature increase. This means that the carbon already emitted will take 40 years to reach its full potential. This is largely due to the slow process of Earth's oceans warming. In many ways, we're only feeling the full effects of emissions from the 80's right now.

There are feedback loops. As the planet warms, the oceans cannot absorb as much CO2. Methane, which works on scales of hundreds of years instead of thousands(but is much more effective at heating), will be released more and more on large swaths of land as time goes on.

Other feedback loops include deforestation, wildfires, and albedo effects, melting ice caps, and increasing water vapor which will only amplify the damage that has already been done.

Think about that: If we did the impossible and switched entirely to 100%, zero-emission, fictional renewables today and provided zero carbon footprint... We'd still be in dire conditions for generations to come.
https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/oimpq5/earths_atmosphere_is_retaining_heat_twice_as_fast/h4wybgg/


Apparently the Amazon Rainforest is pretty much destroyed now as well:
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/07/14/biggest-story-world-right-now-humanity-has-flipped-amazon-carbon-sink-source

Only laws can stop corporations from murdering the planet, and democracies will never enact those laws.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on July 20, 2021, 10:15:21 pm
"Indeed, all the solutions to the climate crisis are already there and have been written in plain language for decades, but as long as capitalism and democracy are in place, the solutions will never be implemented."

I agree, but part of the confusion is that many who care about climate blame capitalism only, and think democracy will dismantle capitalism so long as big donors are removed from election campaigns.

In response, I show these pro-democracy environmentalists how solid majorities in democratic countries have already said they will reject mandatory veganism or state control over reproduction (both of which are required to have any hope at all of averting global warming by now) and ask them how democracy can get this done. They vaguely mumble about better education for future generations can do this..... AS IF WE HAVE TIME LEFT FOR THAT!
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on July 22, 2021, 02:41:50 pm
Artificial intelligence and elections – how malleable is public opinion?
Quote
The goalposts are about to move in the game of public opinion polling. This documentary examines how a startup called Advanced Symbolics (ASI) uses artificial intelligence (AI) and social media data to forecast voter behavior.

When people use the internet, they reveal enormous amounts of private data - often inadvertently. This data can now be harvested by AI to accurately predict, among many other things, how we will vote. Even without surrendering personal information, the new AI algorithm Polly, developed by ASI, combs social media to build profiles of different demographics and determine their preferences. This method has already led to Polly’s success in predicting both Donald Trump’s 2016 election victory and Brexit. With the 2019 Canadian federal election campaign as a real-time backdrop, the filmmakers put Polly to the test to reveal how AI doesn’t just give a detailed picture of the public’s voting intentions. It also shows how specific events can alter them.

But will knowing voters’ hopes and concerns give politicians the intel they need to respond and lead the way to a "utopian" society, as ASI’s CEO Erin Kelly claims? Or will governments and opponents simply use this data to mislead us? And should politicians even be reacting to desires expressed on social media?

#documentary #AI #elections
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH4WUXVfNj0
Title: Re: Media decolonization
Post by: guest55 on July 24, 2021, 05:48:29 pm
Terence McKenna speaks a little on Western "mass media" in this clip and how he believes it created the modern idea of the "public" and the "citizen". Lest we forget that "public opinion" is a Western construct used to manipulate the majority under a Western democratic system and to constantly attempt to gauge were the majority of people in said democracy reside ideologically. I will reiterate here the fact that just because a majority of people believe something to be true does not necessarily make it so.

Should also be noted that Terence McKenna was also a prominent figure of the anti-Western counterculture in the U.S.

Terence McKenna's Unbelievable Prophecy On The Internet & Mass Media
Quote
Another episode on one of my philosophy heroes, Terence McKenna. Terence is a writer, philosopher, and ethnobotanist. In this video we talk about the impact of mass media and the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJr9MEJWJXc

(https://live.staticflickr.com/3666/14311101402_87fa5a384e_c.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/d4/05/5bd4052752cb5495f087eb1760f15749.jpg)

McKenna is a bit contradictory with this following quote considering McKenna was supposedly anti-ideology in his own words. What is an ideology if nothing more than a plan?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/21CTdvB0bPL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on July 26, 2021, 11:46:30 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK_sZDbWwRI

1:57-2:02:

Quote
"In my dictatorship, we would have stamped this out so long ago."

So will Fiorentini agree to never praise democracy ever again? I hope so, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on July 31, 2021, 10:18:04 pm
Following up my previous post:

Quote
14,000 scientists warn of "untold suffering" if we fail to act on climate change
[...]
There are some phrases that should stop you in your tracks. The warning of a future that holds "untold suffering" is one of them. That is exactly what scientists from around the world are cautioning will happen if we don't take the threat of climate change seriously. In a paper published Wednesday in the journal BioScience, more than 14,000 scientists from 153 countries signed their name to research that warns of an incoming climate emergency.

The paper, led by researchers from Oregon State University, uses 31 different planetary variables that tell us how Earth is holding up in the face of humanity's insistence on draining natural resources and pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. The list of checks includes surface temperature levels, rainforest health, and glacial ice levels, along with directly human-controlled factors like the health of the global economy and the availability of fossil fuel subsidies.
https://www.mic.com/p/14000-scientists-warn-of-untold-suffering-if-we-fail-to-act-on-climate-change-82642062

Lol. Hundreds of millions of "low information voters" who vote for politicians who are paid millions of dollars by the fossil fuel industry and other consumerist industries >>>>>>>> 14,000 scientists.

Earth's f*cked I guess, since those 14,000 scientists and millions of people who claim care about global warming actually care about prolonging democracy more than they care about ending global warming.

We can use that as a wedge issue or litmus test or whatever one wants to call it. Ask people if they care more about ending global warming, ending animal exploitation, ending racism, making billionaires pay taxes, etc. or democracy. Ask them over and over again for every position they claim to hold. Because the solutions to all those issues are mutually exclusive with democracy. (You don't even need to point out that China has been the world's leader in renewable energy for decades, despite having to deal with the complexity of governing twice the amount of people as the US and EU combined, precisely because its non-democratic system of government is actually capable of getting things done:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/aug/01/renewableenergy.climatechange
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-climate-change-policy-solar-production
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2019/01/11/china-renewable-energy-superpower/ )

Seriously, read the 14,000 scientists article. Look at all the dozens of dire warning signs that they've been pointing out since at least the 1960s. How can these people seriously claim to believe in the "climate emergency" if they aren't out there advocating for the immediate end to the system of government which refused for an entire lifetime to do even the bare minimum recommended abatement measures? Anyone who isn't advocating to switch to a competent form of government in order to tackle global warming isn't actually a climate activist or concerned about the "endless suffering" and "existential threat" posed by it. Such people are merely outrage junkies who write and read sensationalist headlines as a hobby.

If they were serious about tackling climate change, you'd think at least one--just one--of them would be willing to advocate for a better system of government. But every single one of them hold democracy to be more dear than fixing the planet. That's the hill they will literally die on--letting our entire planet die because they think it's too taboo and unimaginable to acknowledge that the West's system of government is utterly incapable of putting the welfare of society as a whole first. They care more about sustaining that facade than they care about ending global warming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXIetP5iak



I've actually started to see more and more communist-leaning False Leftists say they reject "electoralism". They're so close, but democracy is still too sacred and taboo for them to speak out against it explicitly. But not for us--because we actually care about the fate of the planet.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on August 03, 2021, 08:56:15 pm
Well, I guess we know who is about to be done like dinner....
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/2c/f0/702cf0f279f540ab2c74371c43c38b45.png)
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on August 05, 2021, 10:22:09 pm
MASS PSYCHOSIS - How an Entire Population Becomes MENTALLY ILL
Quote
In this video we are going to explore the most dangerous of all psychic epidemics, the mass psychosis. A mass psychosis is an epidemic of madness and it occurs when a large portion of a society loses touch with reality and descends into delusions. Such a phenomenon is not a thing of fiction. Two examples of mass psychoses are the American and European witch hunts 16th and 17th centuries and the rise of totalitarianism in the 20th century.

This video will aim to answer questions surrounding mass psychosis: What is it? How does is start? Has it happened before? Are we experiencing one right now? And if so, how can the stages of a mass psychosis be reversed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09maaUaRT4M

And, in a democracy those suffering from mass psychosis still have a vote. Think about that little fact. Taking that fact into account one could easily argue that democracy could actually become one of the most evil and worst tyranny's ever experienced by life anywhere!

"Just follow the majority! The majority of people could never be evil and wrong!" This is what most Westerners believe, right?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on August 05, 2021, 11:22:38 pm
Ted Nugent tells Tucker tyrants can 'kiss his a**'
Quote
Musician Ted Nugent joined 'Tucker Carlson Today' to discuss defending the Second Amendment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDQ7hFDIl4Y

Quote
Chris Grignon
11 hours ago
Ted Nugent for President you think they went crazy for Trump

See also: https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/re-trump-disapproval-377/?message=3918
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on August 07, 2021, 10:16:23 pm
"I've actually started to see more and more communist-leaning False Leftists say they reject "electoralism". They're so close, but democracy is still too sacred and taboo for them to speak out against it explicitly."

Communists are devout progressives. They can in theory believe that democracy is inferior, but only to a system newer than democracy (e.g. rule by AI?). They will never believe that democracy could be inferior to ancient systems of autocracy. Communists are among those least capable of nostalgia, as any nostalgia would contradict their central belief that the best is yet to come.

Meanwhile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbhCHQhAxrc
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on August 10, 2021, 05:17:23 pm
Communists are devout progressives. They can in theory believe that democracy is inferior, but only to a system newer than democracy (e.g. rule by AI?).

Yep, that is pretty much how they react:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy

Let society be run by "experts" or AI algorithms programmed by those "experts". This will increase administrative efficiency, but if the educated elite and uneducated masses believe in the same fundamental principles of Western Civilization (which they do), things will not fundamentally improve.

Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on August 23, 2021, 12:40:55 am
https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/high-school-captain-and-classmates-fight-back-against-woke-orthodoxy/video/cd78cc25a2ceee65a7209e08f089f4e8

Quote
Student Aiden Brennan has spoken to Sky News Australia about his fight as school captain against an “orthodoxy” that’s telling young boys they are “oppressors” and are “guilty of sins” that happened well before they were born.

Mr Brennan said his classmates voted for him to be captain because he “wanted to stand up against that”.

He said the school unusually made his cohort have multiple votes on school captain despite the outcome being the same each time.

“They sort of kept making us vote and they kept getting the same answer so eventually they had to accept me,” Mr Brennan said.

If you don't want a pro-Western captain, don't use a Western method of selection (ie. democracy)!
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on August 27, 2021, 04:14:28 pm
More democracy:

(https://i.redd.it/96g4rmgl7lg71.png)

Even more democracy:

Quote
When President John F. Kennedy took office in 1961, he needed Senate approval for 779 of his appointments.

That was a highly irrational way to run a government.


Sixty years later, despite efforts at reform and widespread recognition of the irrationality, President Biden needs Senate approval for 1,237 positions — an increase of 59 percent, as a new report from the Partnership for Public Service discloses.

We’ve gone from irrational to just plain crazy.

How crazy? The Post and the Partnership are tracking 799 of those positions (leaving out some advisory boards and less essential jobs). As of this week, only 112 of them have been filled.

More than six months into his presidency, in other words — more than an eighth of the way through his term — Biden hardly has the beginning of an executive team in place.
[...]
At about this point of every administration, you start to see stories assigning blame for the empty offices. Republicans will ask why Biden has nominated only 323 of the 799. Administration officials would say there’s not much point in stacking up another few hundred nominees for obstructionists such as Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.), who has been holding up State Department nominees to grandstand his opposition to the administration’s stance on a Russia-Germany natural gas pipeline.

But the better question is, why do things this way in the first place?
[...]
The Senate could insist on true accountability: Confirm the truly senior positions, let those officials appoint the teams they want, and then hold those executives responsible for results.

In turn, those executives would have an experienced, empowered civil service to rely on, with institutional memory and long-term commitment.

The country would have a government capable of taking on complex problems.

Imagine the board of directors of a large corporation appointing a new chief executive and then forcing that executive to operate without a team for months and even years.

Shareholders wouldn’t stand for such absurdity. Why should taxpayers?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/08/us-government-is-designed-failure-new-study-shows-its-getting-steadily-worse/

Why should taxpayers stand for the absurdity of anyone in government being elected, instead of a qualified appointee?

-----------


The first piece of advice is vote... As if environmentalists haven't been attempting to do that since the 1960s? What's next, write to your representative? As if their staffers don't just shred all the mail without reading it..? What's the democratic step 3 when voting and writing to your representative don't work? Give up and accept our doom because people care more about democracy than environmentalism, I guess.

Quote
The climate crisis is an accelerating calamity of our own making. So what would it take to turn things around?
[...]
Vote. Divest. Plant trees. Recycle. Remove fossil fuel subsidies. Go renewable. We don’t need to accept the inevitable demise of life on the planet
[...]
But embedded in the gloom and doom of the latest tome is the glimmer of a hopeful message – that there is no physical reason why we must accept the inevitable demise of life on the planet.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/19/the-climate-crisis-is-an-accelerating-calamity-of-our-own-making-so-what-would-it-take-to-turn-things-around

From the comments:
Quote
It may take more than that. NASA's former lead climate scientist James Hansen got himself arrested several times protesting government inaction on climate change.

A number of years ago, speaking to Americans, he said we should all be down at the White House knocking on the door about this.

Quote
A global vegan ecologist dictatorship would turn things round. Viewed dispassionately from outer space it makes perfect sense but it would be like expecting a swarm of locusts to go easy on the crops.

Finally! A solution! Now we just need to convince them to stop being a cynical defeatist and bring this into a reality.


Meanwhile, Rwanda is another 'dictatorship' leading the way:

Quote
In 2008, the small East African nation of 12 million people instituted a national ban on non-biodegradable plastic bags. The polyethylene bags, which shoppers typically only use once before throwing out, are known to amass in landfills, litter streets, obstruct sewer systems and hurt marine life.

Rwanda was still recovering from the economic and emotional destruction of genocide in the mid-1990s. As part of a revival plan, leaders decided to emphasize environmental protection, resulting in a series of reforms that included the bag measure. It wasn’t the first national bag ban -- Bangladesh passed one in 2002 -- but Rwanda’s law has serious teeth. It prohibits the manufacture, use, importation and sale of the bags. Owners of businesses that violate the ban face up to a year in prison, and anyone caught carrying a bag faces stiff fines. Businesses that flout the rules are raided; travelers who enter Rwanda’s borders are subject to searches. Strict enforcement has led to some revolt among small business owners and the growth of a black market trade in plastic bags. But there’s been less ire from bag manufacturers, who were encouraged through tax incentives and recycling contracts to convert their businesses.

Rwanda’s audacious ban, however harsh it may be, seems to have been effective. Numerous international environmental agencies have praised the prohibition for helping clean up the streets of the country, especially the capital city of Kigali.
https://www.governing.com/archive/gov-rwanda-plastic-bag-ban.html

So, what are Western nations' excuses for not doing the same? Oh yeah, democracy.

Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on September 09, 2021, 03:53:33 pm
Less than 50% of Millennials are "satisfied" with democracy. Will Gen Z take the climate crisis seriously enough to end it? If their goal is to tackle the climate crisis, then the means will have to be able to accomplish that goal--which necessitates getting rid of democracy.

Quote
‘No point in anything else’: Gen Z members flock to climate careers

Colleges offer support as young people aim to devote their lives to battling the crisis
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/06/gen-z-climate-change-careers-jobs

Other good news:

Quote
Young people are less satisfied with democracy and more disillusioned than at any other time in the past century, especially in Europe, North America, Africa and Australia, a study by the University of Cambridge has found.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/millennials-are-losing-faith-in-democracy-study-suggests/ar-BB1acXI7


Scroll down to figure 4! Averaged across the globe, all age brackets of the Millennial generation are more dissatisfied with democracy than satisfied.
Quote
A constant country sample is used in each age bracket. Each generational cohort is less satisfied with democracy than the prior cohort was at the same age in life. Contrary to the view that generational differences are merely a “life-cycle effect” – with people becoming less critical of democracy as they grow older – in fact, younger cohorts have become more dissatisfied as they have aged
https://www.cam.ac.uk/system/files/youth_and_satisfaction_with_democracy.pdf

Even more good news (note this article is from an entire year before the 2016 election, so Trump's corruption wouldn't have impacted the polling):

Quote
In our research we have found that citizens give less and less importance to living in a democracy. They have increasingly negative views about key democratic institutions. Most worryingly of all, they are more and more open to illiberal alternatives. Americans aren’t just souring on particular institutions or particular politicians. To a surprising degree, they have begun to sour on liberal democracy itself.
[...]
Political scientists have long known that "government legitimacy," or the popularity of particular administrations, is going down. But many of them have argued that "regime legitimacy," or citizens’ attachment to democracy as a political system, is as strong as ever. Our research shows that this is just not true: Attachment to democracy has fallen over time, and from one generation to the next.
https://www.vox.com/polyarchy/2015/12/18/9360663/is-democracy-in-trouble

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/xU8zM5ZOu4I68RI5S-eegdrxLzA=/0x0:720x857/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:720x857):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4082844/Figure_3_.0.png)

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/l7rNKmS-Gud6NTcabwInvtXohUk=/0x0:724x859/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:724x859):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4082848/Figure_4_.0.png)

Pre-Trump(!) less than 10% of Americans had any faith in their government. Why haven't we gotten rid of democracy yet?
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/y56xCe-LiHLuEKhmN-hMOEehMmc=/0x0:720x868/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:720x868):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5658601/Figure_1___2_.0.png)
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on September 09, 2021, 10:54:17 pm
"all age brackets of the Millennial generation are more dissatisfied with democracy than satisfied."

I fear this count includes rightists who are dissatisfied with democracy only because they are dissatisfied with the effects of Demographic Blueshift:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/demographic-blueshift/

They may be the ones most supportive of:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/news/voter-suppression/

A better estimate of dissatisfaction with democracy for the correct (ie. leftist) reasons might be found by looking at only anti-democrats within the environmentalist movement, for example.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on September 11, 2021, 02:19:20 pm
WARNING!: Be prepared to mentally ingest lunacy if you listen to this clip:

Believe Extremist Christian Nationalist When They Tell You Who They Are!!!
Quote
Jesse plays voicemails from two different callers about the radical nutter-butter Christian pastors who railed against democratic values – one of them literally calling democracy a DISEASE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YOcMs30mcg

Not saying that these "Christian Nationalists" Jesse refers to in the above clip are actually "Christians" or "Nationalists", but Jesse obviously lacks any clarity on this subject. (No surprise there!) I would say any person who renounces democracy is closer to Jesus than those who promote it! DUH!!!

Who was it that VOTED to have Jesus crucified FFS!?!?!?

Quote
Barabbas, in the New Testament, a prisoner mentioned in all four Gospels who was chosen by the crowd, over Jesus Christ, to be released by Pontius Pilate in a customary pardon before the feast of Passover.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Barabbas-biblical-figure

The "majority" clearly hated Jesus too! How could you hate someone like Jesus, Jesse!?

Why did the crowds shout, “Crucify Him!” when Pilate wanted to release Jesus?
Quote
When the Sanhedrin brought Jesus before the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, Pilate could not find any fault in Jesus, and he said so three times (Luke 23:4, 14–15, 22). Late in the trial, Pilate sought a way to free Jesus (John 19:12). It was a Passover festival custom that the governor release a prisoner to the people, so, in a ploy to appease the crowd of Jewish leaders who had gathered and to secure Jesus’ release, Pilate allowed them to choose between a convicted criminal named Barabbas and Jesus. Instead of choosing Jesus, as Pilate had hoped, the crowd chose Barabbas for release. Shocked that they would free a hardened criminal, Pilate asked, “What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?” (Mark 15:12). The crowd cried out, “Crucify him!” (verse 13).
https://www.gotquestions.org/Crucify-Him.html

The majority in Jesus' time was clearly EVIL and democracy is a "tyranny of the MAJORITY" FFS!!!

Even after the Trump presidency Jesse Dollemore still cannot bring himself to accept reality!!!
Title: Gavin Newsom's Recall Victory Was NOT A Repudiation Of Trump
Post by: guest55 on September 16, 2021, 12:36:17 pm
Gavin Newsom's Recall Victory Was NOT A Repudiation Of Trump
Quote
Liberal writers were quick to claim that Gavin Newsom's defeat of Larry Elder in California was somehow a repudiation of Donald Trump, but the reality is actually far less thrilling. Newsom survived a recall in a state where there are almost twice as many registered Democrats as there are Republicans, and there was no clear evidence of actual corruption to pin on Newsom. It isn't that hard, and it really isn't worth pontificating on for too long, as Ring of Fire's Farron Cousins explains.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfGzs-ofwM4
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on October 17, 2021, 02:46:53 am
While watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l_V5cUva4M

it suddenly occurred to me that if anti-homophobia is "sexual anarchy", then homophobia is in fact sexual democracy. The majority of people are "heterosexual" (as a consequence of natural selection), and democracy means that the minority must accept the majority preference as more valid, hence homophobia. And indeed Western civilization is to blame for spreading both democracy and homophobia worldwide during the colonial era, as we have previously covered:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/homophobia-is-not-american/

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/msg7373/#msg7373

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/social-decolonization/msg7480/#msg7480
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on October 22, 2021, 01:24:05 am
Democracy self-optimizes to the point where the outcome of nearly every election hinges on a small handfull of "swing" districts, and where nearly every legislative session is dominated by a few individuals who have all the bargaining power.

At this point, how could anyone still believe that corporate-funded politicians, pushing corporate-written policies, elected in a pure popularity contest by a selfish majority of voters is a tolerable system of government?

I think this is why people like Alexander Hamilton wanted the President and upper house of the legislature to serve for life (and even the original US Senate was chosen by state legislatures rather than popular election for over 100 years)... People in the government shouldn't be chosen in a popularity contest like a friggin' prom queen. They should be appointed and serve based on merit. The hyper-competitiveness of election cycles and inability of the government to be more powerful than corporations have ensured politicians care more about the corporations funding their re-election campaigns than what's beneficial for society as a whole.

Quote
In recent days, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) has told associates that he is considering leaving the Democratic Party if President Joe Biden and Democrats on Capitol Hill do not agree to his demand to cut the size of the social infrastructure bill from $3.5 trillion to $1.75 trillion, according to people who have heard Manchin discuss this. Manchin has said that if this were to happen, he would declare himself an “American Independent.” And he has devised a detailed exit strategy for his departure.
[...]
He told associates that he has a two-step plan for exiting the party. First, he would send a letter to Sen. Chuck Schumer, the top Senate Democrat, removing himself from the Democratic leadership of the Senate. (He is vice chair of the Senate Democrats’ policy and communications committee.) Manchin hopes that would send a signal. He would then wait and see if that move had any impact on the negotiations. After about a week, he said, he would change his voter registration from Democrat to independent.
[...]
Manchin told associates that he was prepared to initiate his exit plan earlier this week and had mentioned the possibility to Biden. But he was encouraged by the conversations with Sanders and top Democrats that occurred at the start of the week and did not yet see a reason to take this step. Still, he has informed associates that because he is so out of sync with the Democratic Party, he believes it is likely he will leave the party by November 2022.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/10/senator-joe-manchin-democratic-party-exit-plan-biden-infrastructure-deal-exclusive/
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on October 22, 2021, 02:58:26 am
Purely for entertainment: (136k likes  :D)

…but the people are retarded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE

Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 03, 2021, 01:08:47 pm
Still believe in democracy, False Leftists?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9NKm7c04ZM

https://vdare.com/posts/the-youngkin-win-shows-anti-crt-is-a-winning-issue

(https://vdare.com/public_upload/publication/featured_image/56192/VDARE-youngkin-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 06, 2021, 01:31:14 am
Democracy is bad not because it is controlled by money, but because it is controlled by popularity:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/n-j-truck-driver-notches-180029349.html

Quote
A N.J. Truck Driver Notches 'Stunning' Election Win After Spending $153 on His Campaign
...
In one of the more remarkable upsets of Tuesday's elections, a New Jersey truck driver who spent less than $200 on his campaign unseated a longtime state Senate president.

While early vote tabulations led many outlets to report that Democrat Steve Sweeney had won reelection in New Jersey's 3rd Legislative District, continued counts showed that a political newcomer — Edward Durr, the Republican nominee — was actually leading by 4 points, or a little more than 2,000 votes.
...
"It is stunning and shocking and I cannot figure it out," the state Senate Majority Leader told the AP.

I can:

(https://barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Screen-Shot-2021-11-05-at-9.13.14-PM.png)
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on December 04, 2021, 05:41:51 am
Quote
A national poll of people ages 18 to 29 found that most young Americans said that they believed the county’s democracy is either “in trouble” or has "failed."

Specifically, 52 percent of respondents said that they held these beliefs, including 39 percent who said that the U.S. is a “democracy in trouble” and 13 percent who said that the country is a “failed democracy,” the poll from the Institute of Politics at Harvard Kennedy School released on Wednesday found.   

Twenty-seven percent of the respondents said that they viewed the country as “somewhat functioning democracy,” and just 7 percent said that the U.S. is a "healthy democracy."

When considering the results along party lines, more Republicans viewed the state of democracy in the country as in trouble or failed than did Democrats or unaffiliated young people, the survey found.

A total of 70 percent of Republicans said that they held this view, including 47 percent who said that the U.S. democracy is in trouble and 23 percent who said that it has failed. Among Democrats, 45 percent said that the country's democracy is in trouble or has failed, and 51 percent of independent and unaffiliated young people had the same responses.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/583736-one-half-of-young-americans-in-new-poll-say-democracy-in-us-is-either


Note that more rightists think democracy in the US has failed than leftists. (How the hell is that even possible??? We had a rightist coup attempt that nearly succeeded and leftists think it's not a big deal??? That speaks volumes to the effectiveness of propaganda--both propaganda aimed towards rightists to rile them up and propaganda aimed towards leftists to make them complacent.)

People's faith in democracy and trust in institutions has been steadily decreasing for generations, and there's no reason that trend is going to reverse.

So, the question is: who will replace democracy first, rightists or leftists? We need to be hammering the alternatives to democracy to all the people who believe it's failed.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on December 04, 2021, 06:05:57 am
Professional liar and coup-organizer Elliott Abrams would rather have democratic governments which r*pe and massacre civilians than non-democratic governments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InGCmxCjaWE

How long until leftists are finally able to decouple "human rights" from democracy? ...And how long until they realize the very concept of "rights" will forever fail to actually uphold the liberties they want to guarantee?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on December 04, 2021, 09:22:05 pm
"Note that more rightists think democracy in the US has failed than leftists. (How the hell is that even possible???"

"Non-whites"/women voting in sufficient numbers to affect election outcomes = failed democracy according to rightists. An increasing number of rightists openly call for prohibiting "non-whites", as well as women, from voting.

"So, the question is: who will replace democracy first, rightists or leftists?"

To be fair, most rightists seem to trust democracy with only "white" men voting more than they trust autocracy. So, strictly speaking, rightists do not want to replace democracy, but rather to end universal suffrage and hence return to what can accurately be called traditional democracy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Origins

Quote
excluded women, slaves, foreigners (μέτοικοι / métoikoi), and youths below the age of military service.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on December 13, 2021, 08:37:14 pm
Because Hungary is democratic, Orban came to power in Hungary. Because France is also democratic, Orban can also influence who takes power in France at no extra cost to Hungary:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/frances-macron-pay-tribute-orban-112040155.html

Quote
BUDAPEST/PARIS (Reuters) - President Emmanuel Macron said on Monday France was willing to "work together for Europe" with Hungary despite the countries' political differences, striking a conciliatory note as Paris prepares to take over the European Union's presidency.
...
Macron wants other EU states to support the priorities he has set for France's six-month presidency of the bloc starting in January, including better protection and control of EU borders.
...
Orban has in the past two months received far-right leaders Marine Le Pen and Eric Zemmour, who are candidates in France's presidential election next year in which Macron is expected to seek a second term.

Both praised Orban's opposition to immigration, and Zemmour hailed his defence of "his country's identity, sovereignty and borders."

A stronger country being pressured to follow a weaker country's unethical policies is something that only happens under democracy.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on December 29, 2021, 08:41:27 pm
Here are some quotes from the Constitutional Convention of 1787, where the US Constitution was debated and later accepted.

Many of the framers of the Constitution understood very clearly that democracy was an oppressive system of government, but ironically, they had to acquiesce to the tyrannical will of the majority of citizens and went through with ratifying it anyway.

(Also...their "check and balance" in the Legislative branch against unrestrained democracy? The Senate... Which has been one of the most corrupt branches of the government for literal centuries.)


Quote
Our chief danger arises from the democratic parts of our constitutions. It is a maxim which I hold incontrovertible, that the powers of government exercised by the people swallows up the other branches. None of the constitutions have provided sufficient checks against the democracy.

-Edmund Randolph.

Quote
The evils we experience flow from the excess of democracy. The people do not want virtue; but are the dupes of pretended patriots. In Massts. it has been fully confirmed by experience that they are daily misled into the most baneful measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute.

-Elbridge Gerry.

Quote
We are not indeed constituting a British Government, but a more dangerous monarchy, an elective one. We are introducing a new principle into our system, and not necessary as in the British Govt. where the Executive has greater rights to defend. Do gentlemen mean to pave the way to hereditary Monarchy? Do they flatter themselves that the people will ever consent to such an innovation? If they do I venture to tell them, they are mistaken. The people never will consent. And do gentlemen consider the danger of delay, and the still greater danger of a a rejection not for a moment but forever, of the plan which shall be proposed to them. Notwithstanding the oppressions & injustice experienced among us from democracy; the genius of the people is in favor of it, and the genius of the people must be consulted. He could not but consider the federal system as in effect dissolved by the appointment of this Convention to devise a better one. And do gentlemen look forward to the dangerous interval between the extinction of an old, and the establishment of a new Governmt. and to the scenes of confusion which may ensue. He hoped that nothing like a monarchy would ever be attempted in this Country. A hatred to its oppressions had carried the people through the late Revolution. Will it not be eno’ to enable the Executive to suspend offensive laws, till they shall be coolly revised, and the objections to them overruled by a greater majority than was required in the first instance. He never could agree to give up all the rights of the people to a single Magistrate. If more than one had been fixed on, greater powers might have been entrusted to the Executive. He hoped this attempt to give such powers would have its weight hereafter 〈as an argument〉 for increasing the number of the Executive.

-notes on George Mason's speech.

(Even though Mason acknowledged a democratic government was more dangerous than the British monarchy which had oppressed Americans, he thought it was ok for democracy to be implemented anyway...)


Quote
This was the only defence agst. the inconveniences of democracy consistent with the democratic form of Govt. All civilized Societies would be divided into different Sects, Factions, & interests, as they happened to consist of rich & poor, debtors & creditors, the landed the manufacturing, the commercial interests, the inhabitants of this district, or that district, the followers of this political leader or that political leader, the disciples of this religious sect or that religious sect. In all cases where a majority are united by a common interest or passion, the rights of the minority are in danger. What motives are to restrain them? A prudent regard to the maxim that honesty is the best policy is found by experience to be as little regarded by bodies of men as by individuals. Respect for character is always diminished in proportion to the number among whom the blame or praise is to be divided. Conscience, the only remaining tie is known to be inadequate in individuals: In large numbers, little is to be expected from it. Besides, Religion itself may become a motive to persecution & oppression. — These observations are verified by the Histories of every Country antient & modern.
[...]
The lesson we are to draw from the whole is that where a majority are united by a common sentiment and have an opportunity, the rights of the minor party become insecure. In a Republican Govt. the Majority if united have always an opportunity. The only remedy is to enlarge the sphere, & thereby divide the community into so great a number of interests & parties, that in the 1st. place a majority will not be likely at the same moment to have a common interest separate from that of the whole or of the minority; and in the 2d. place, that in case they shd. have such an interest, they may not be apt to unite in the pursuit of it. It was incumbent on us then to try this remedy, and with that view to frame a republican system on such a scale & in such a form as will controul all the evils wch. have been experienced.

-James Madison's argument in defense of democracy

(Spoiler alert, this "remedy" has failed. Can we revise our system of government to one which actually is able to stop oppression now?)


Quote
The error was now seen by every one. The members most tenacious of republicanism, he observed, were as loud as any in declaiming agst. the vices of democracy. ... Give all power to the many, they will oppress the few. Give all power to the few they will oppress the many. Both therefore ought to have power, that each may defend itself agst. the other. ... No temporary Senate will have firmness en’o’ to answer the purpose. ... They suppose Seven years a sufficient period to give the Senate an adequate firmness, from not duly considering the amazing violence & turbulence of the democratic spirit. When a great object of Govt. is pursued, which seizes the popular passions, they spread like wild fire, and become irresistable. ... As to the Executive, it seemed to be admitted that no good one could be established on Republican principles. Was not this giving up the merits of the question; for can there be a good Govt. without a good Executive. The English model was the only good one on this subject. The Hereditary interest of the King was so interwoven with that of the Nation, and his personal emoluments so great, that he was placed above the danger of being corrupted from abroad — and at the same time was both sufficiently independent and sufficiently controuled, to answer the purpose of the institution at home. one of the weak sides of Republics was their being liable to foreign influence & corruption. Men of little character, acquiring great power become easily the tools of intermedling neibours.

-notes on Alexander Hamilton's speech

Alexander Hamilton believed the President, Senate, and judges should serve for life "during periods of good behavior". But he was Eurocentric and admired the British system of government, and therefore was still trapped within the democratic mindset...

After the Constitutional Convention accepted the Constitution and sent it to the state governments to debate on, Hamilton was one of the Constitution's primary defenders in the series of essays called The Federalist Papers, despite his own proposals for government being rejected...

Quote
But is this a Republican Govt. it will be asked? Yes, if all the Magistrates are appointed, and vacancies are filled, by the people, or a process of election originating with the people.
[...]
II The Assembly to consist of persons elected by the people to serve for three years.

III. The Senate to consist of persons elected to serve during good behaviour; their election to be made by electors chosen for that purpose by the people: in order to this the States to be divided into election districts. On the death, removal or resignation of any Senator his place to be filled out of the district from which he came.

If local community members are allowed to nominate individuals for vacancies, and give their reasoning as to why their nominee is qualified, then would this not satisfy all the positive things that "representative" democracies claim they wish to accomplish? Appointments would of course be made by a governor or qualified committee, who would vet the individuals nominated by the general public, as well as be able to nominate candidates themselves if the public does not nominate anyone who is qualified.

I think I read a comment by a communist somewhere who claimed this was similar to how the "Democratic People's Republic" of North Korea theoretically appoints local government officials?

Voting for qualified electors who then chose politicians is the original purpose of the Electoral College. Originally, people did not vote for the president at all. They only voted for electors, who were knowledgeable individuals in the local community, who then deliberated amongst themselves to pick the most qualified individual to be president. This "check and balance" against democracy has also failed, since the electors are just a ceremonial holdover who are beholden to their state's popular vote (which has the consequence of amplifying Republican power)...

Quote
But 〈he〉 sees the Union dissolving or already dissolved — he sees evils operating in the States which must soon cure the people of their fondness for democracies — he sees that a great progress has been already made & is still going on in the public mind. He thinks therefore that the people will in time be unshackled from their prejudices; and whenever that happens, they will themselves not be satisfied at stopping where the plan of Mr. R. wd. place them, but be ready to go as far at least as he proposes.

-notes on Alexander Hamilton's speech

After 250 years of democratic failures and multiple bouts of "dissolving", perhaps the people are almost ready to unshackle their pro-democratic prejudices and accept an autocratic form of government which actually upholds justice? Less than 100 years ago Germany and many other nations were fed up enough with democracy to try something different. In fact, many in the US were about ready to do the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_dictatorship#Media_support


Maybe if Hamilton wasn't such a Britophile elitist, his plan would have gained more traction:

Quote
I believe the British government forms the best model the world ever produced, and such has been its progress in the minds of the many, that this truth gradually gains ground. This government has for its object public strength and individual security. It is said with us to be unattainable. If it was once formed it would maintain itself. All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first are the rich and well born, the other the mass of the people. The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true in fact. The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct, permanent share in the government. They will check the unsteadiness of the second, and as they cannot receive any advantage by a change, they therefore will ever maintain good government. Can a democratic assembly, who annually revolve in the mass of the people, be supposed steadily to pursue the public good? Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy. Their turbulent and uncontrouling disposition requires checks. ... It is admitted that you cannot have a good executive upon a democratic plan. See the excellency of the British executive — He is placed above temptation — He can have no distinct interests from the public welfare. Nothing short of such an executive can be efficient.
[...]
But the people are gradually ripening in their opinions of government — they begin to be tired of an excess of democracy


...Hamilton was so close.

Quote
Gentlemen say we need to be rescued from the democracy. But what the means proposed?

A democratic assembly is to be checked by a democratic senate, and both these by a democratic chief magistrate.

The end will not be answered — the means will not be equal to the object.

It will, therefore, be feeble and inefficient.

-excerpt from Hamilton's notes on his speech
Title: Re: Eric Zemmour
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 11, 2022, 09:10:17 pm
Zemmour the democrat:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-minority-propaganda-french-schools-172722683.html

Quote
No to "minority propaganda" in French schools, far-right's Zemmour says

PARIS (Reuters) - French far-right candidate Eric Zemmour on Monday attacked anti-racist and anti-homophobia groups in schools, saying they were brainwashing pupils, as he urged a return to a more conservative education system.
...
"Over the past 40 years, our children have been indoctrinated," Zemmour, who has been convicted for inciting racial hatred, told reporters. "Schools cannot be the place where LGBT and anti-racism ideologies brainwash our children."

This is why leftism is incompatible with democracy. How much longer will it take False Leftists see something so obvious?

Quote
Zemmour, 63, is socially conservative, against gay marriage, and has said his presidential bid was aimed at "saving France from decadence.

Also Zemmour:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/non-aryan-infidelity/msg9944/#msg9944
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 11, 2022, 11:36:58 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/never-let-black-people-vote-200313926.html

Quote
They will never let Black people vote
...
The president should use his bully pulpit and Congress should dismantle the filibuster to fight voter suppression. Still, I have yet to hear a specific action or thing that Biden or the Democratic Party can do to secure Black people’s voting rights. Maybe we should ask ourselves: What if there ain’t no finished?

What if there is no single answer?

Throughout the history of this country, there is one enduring constant that is as steadfast and unmovable as the resilience of Black people. Like us, one all-American precept has endured slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow, the civil rights movement and every microsecond of America’s existence.

They will never ever allow Black people to vote.

Even before America ended its constitutional system of race-based human trafficking, free Black people were restricted from voting in a majority of America—either by law or in practice. After the bloodiest war the continent has ever seen, white men in the South and in the North committed themselves to a terror campaign to convince Black people that participating in the political process was a life-threatening endeavor. They enforced it with church bombings, police beatings and extrajudicial death sentences. Voter suppression provoked the longest filibuster in U.S. history, a Bloody Sunday and an untold number of massacres. After the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, a majority of white Americans felt that civil rights demonstrations were not justified. Even today, Black voters wait longer to vote, are more likely to be removed from voter rolls and face polling place closures more often.
...
The expectation that we will find a solution to the centuries-long tradition of obstructing the Black vote is futile at best. Joe Biden doesn’t have a secret Illuminati password that will hypnotize Sens. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema into not doing the same thing that white people have done since the Constitution appraised Black humanity at 60 percent of white personhood. I’m pretty sure Latosha Brown doesn’t have one of those Men in Black penlights that will make this country forget its history of suppressing Black voters.

Speeches won’t transform this country. Protests won’t stop white supremacy. Neither will legislation, Supreme Court rulings, voter registration drives or changing the procedural rules of the Senate. Applying pressure to Sinema and Manchin won’t stop their colleagues who feel the same way but are too afraid to say it.
...
We must resign ourselves that we will always have to fight.

Or we could end democracy altogether. It is the existence of elections in the first place that created all the problems with voting that we now have to deal with. If there were no more elections, we wouldn't have to worry about voting. It would be just like the old days before Western colonialism happened.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 17, 2022, 08:42:31 pm
This is democracy:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/database-reveals-u-congressmen-owned-145034260.html

Quote
A new Washington Post database detailing all of the members of Congress who were slave owners offers insight into how history has at times celebrated those who owned other humans as property — some of whom served as recently as the 20th century.

As the Post notes in its sprawling compilation, slavery "was deeply rooted among the wealthy families most likely to send someone to Washington." The Post project concludes that 1,715 members of Congress were slave-owners at some point in their lives, "including at least one lawmaker who held Native Americans in bondage."

One lawmaker — Rep. John T.H. Worthington — was listed as being "the enslaver of 29 people in the 1840 Census while he was representing the Baltimore area in the House," the Post reports. Worthington at one point sold his own enslaved daughter to a man looking for a slave to bear his children. The price: $1,800.

There is nothing surprising about those popular with the majority (at least enough to be elected into office) being the same ones who oppress minorities.

The database:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/interactive/2022/congress-slaveowners-names-list/
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on January 18, 2022, 12:50:17 am
I didn't want to write all this, but I am so baffled how people like this can be "professional" political writers. How can you be a professional press correspondent and journalist, and see this personally every day, and not take a step back and really reflect on the root of what's going on?


Quote
Will we really let ourselves be governed by irredeemable idiots? That's the choice, America

Anthony Fauci's hot-mic moment expressed the frustration many of us feel. But right now, the "morons" are winning
https://www.salon.com/2022/01/13/will-we-really-let-ourselves-be-governed-by-irredeemable-morons-thats-the-choice-america/

How is that even a choice that is on the table??? Can you imagine ancient Chinese philosophers sitting around having an entirely serious debate over whether they should allow morons to elect morons to rule their nation? That sounds like the plot to a comedy skit.

Yet, for some reason, we take democracy as an inviolable thing.

Quote
As a thought experiment, see if you can consider any of today's societal problems independent of politics. You may find it impossible, since many of us believe our problems are caused by our divisive politics.

Caused by DEMOCRACY, not "politics". One party autocracy, for example, is a political system which avoids the inherent divisiveness of democracy.

Quote
Voting rights. Climate change. The pandemic. Health care. The economy. Education. Infrastructure. All of them have a political component, and because of that a good argument could be made that divisive politics is the single largest problem we face.

Imagine if we didn't have to vote for politicians who then have to vote on whether or not to take those problems seriously. Imagine if we had a competent government that just addressed them!

Quote
Nothing is more representative of that than Wednesday's revelation that Republicans in several states forged electoral-vote letters on behalf of the former president in the 2020 presidential election. It does have the virtue of perhaps proving there was fraud in that election — but not by the Democrats.

This could have been avoided by just not having democracy in the first place.

Quote
If that doesn't convince you, then watch Republican Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky grill Dr. Anthony Fauci on Tuesday during a public hearing over the COVID pandemic. Engaged in a blatant effort to score political points with his "fans" (not his constituents), Paul verbally assaulted a government employee who is trying to deal with a crippling pandemic.

Why does Paul have any power? Beacuse people voted for him. Why are are people allowed to elect morons to positions of supreme power? Because we have democracy.

Quote
Yes, politics is the problem. President Biden also tried to deal with that Tuesday as he traveled to Georgia and spoke about voting rights and the need to get rid of the Senate filibuster in order to pass crucial voting legislation by simple majority vote. Kentucky's senior senator, Mitch McConnell, threatened retribution if the Democrats modify the filibuster.

Democracy is the problem. In any sane and functional system of government, the president could just fix that kind of stuff without being subject to a bureaucracy made of morons.

Quote
Of course. Republicans don't want to rely on a simple majority — they don't have one.

Ffs, if we don't even have a "real" democracy now, why not just get rid of it entirely?

Quote
"The goal of the former president and his allies is to disenfranchise anyone who votes against them," Biden said, arguing for a national law guaranteeing voter access.

If we didn't have democracy in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue. Trump voters wouldn't be an issue. Politicians elected by Trumpists to destroy the nation wouldn't be an issue.

Quote
"Simple as that. The facts won't matter. Your vote won't matter. They'll just decide what they want, and then do it. That's the kind of power you see in totalitarian states. Not in democracies."

Our votes don't matter to begin with. Republicans already have that kind of power FFS. They operated outside of the law in a self-coup during the entire duration of the Trump administration!!! How were they able to get that power? By democracy. They had more politicians elected and therefore democratically decided to do whatever the hell they wanted.

Very totalitarian, but also very democratic.


Quote
He warned us that "the battle for the soul of America is not over."

It was over before it even began if politicians want to keep defending democracy...



Quote
Of course, that nonsensical reasoning comes from the same political party with members who cannot openly denounce Nazis, while endorsing taking horse deworming pills, injecting bleach and drinking their own urine — either to battle the coronavirus or perhaps because they don't live in states where marijuana is legal and edibles are not readily available. I imagine weekends in those areas are mighty dull if you can't ingest bleach and drink your own urine.
[...]
At this point the Republican Party has no conscience. It is a party of fascists; angry, small-minded people with no sense of empathy,  overwhelmed by their own greed and avarice. Privately they may condemn the "Big Lie," but they don't have the temerity to do so publicly. They let the lies spread.

That's how the remnants of the Republican Party are scamming millions of Americans, by publicly pretending that knowledge and science are political commodities to be traded in the public arena, like pork belly futures. And journalists are aiding and abetting their efforts.

Yeah, by writing idiotic articles taking for granted that being ALLOWED to vote for these treasonous con men should even be an option on the table, this journalist is indeed aiding and abetting their efforts.


Quote
We're looking at fascists.

The Republican party is a fascist party. Moreover, it is a corporate fascist party.
[...]
It is a party that overwhelmingly and publicly backs a man who pushed an insurrection to overturn legitimate election results. The members of this party only care about their own power, nothing for you. And they want to exploit you for everything you're worth — which, to them, is what you can bring to the table as a corporate indentured servant.

For the love of god, if they are, then why are you arguing we should be allowed to vote for them?

For the record, Republicans are obviously not fascists. An actual fascist regime would send all Republican politicians and voters to concentration camps for being a threat to the national unity and for intentionally sabotaging the state's power.

Quote
If you can separate politics from our problems, then take a look at the solutions proposed by the two major parties in this country and compare and contrast those proposals. In some cases, I question whether the Democratic Party understands the root cause of some of our problems. Their solutions are questionable at times.

The root of the problem is DEMOCRACY, dumbass.

Quote
Then, as Fauci pulled away from the mic, he could be heard muttering, "What a moron! Jesus Christ."

Yes. Morons. ... We elected these morons. We get the government we deserve when so few of us vote and when so few of us are educated about the issues, and especially when we treat politicians as if they were professional wrestlers and we're eager to see a smackdown. How close are we to seeing a President Dwayne Elizondo "Mountain Dew" Herbert Camacho?

The journalist can write this, yet _still_ continue to defend democracy. Wow.

Quote
As legendary TV newsman Edward R. Murrow said at the Radio, Television, News Directors Association annual meeting in 1958, "This nation is now in competition with malignant forces of evil who are using every instrument at their command to empty the minds of their subjects and fill those minds with slogans ... we are engaged in a great experiment to discover whether a free public opinion can devise and direct methods of managing the affairs of the nation. We may fail. But in terms of information, we are handicapping ourselves needlessly."

The experiment failed hundreds of years ago. Why do we keep democracy around when our only choices are to vote for literal evil? How is that acceptable? How is that worth continuing???


Quote
The day of reckoning is nigh upon us, and the midterm elections this year could decide for years to come whether or not we continue as a democracy.

A year ago, the Republicans decided they were done with democracy. When you have one party which will use any and all means at their disposal to end democracy, and another party who literally does nothing to punish them or prevent them from attempting more coups, logically, ever possible outcome ends with democracy ending.


Quote
As the computer Joshua warns us at the end of the movie "War Games": "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

Democracy is a strange game, the only winning move is not to elect anyone at all, since all politicians are evil...

Quote
Joshua was talking about global thermonuclear war. That's hardly a game. But politics isn't a "game" either. It's supposed to be a way of working out our problems together in pursuit of common goals.

It would be nice if the American electorate were as smart as a fictional computer from a movie produced in 1984.

It would be nice if we stopped treating politics like a game--a literal popularity contest with reality TV stars--and abolished the electorate entirely...
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on January 28, 2022, 12:13:58 am
'This is not going to end well': Former Fox anchor reacts to recent rhetoric
Quote
CNN's Jim Acosta speaks to former Fox anchor Gretchen Carlson about the network's take on tensions between Ukraine and Russia. 
#CNN #News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOLPv2cr7TQ

Insanity from all sides! LOL!!!
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on January 28, 2022, 08:39:05 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_GY_p2jfY8

As I was saying here earlier:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/allies/ilhan-omar/msg10531/#msg10531

Quote
Here is actually an opening for leftists to turn anti-democratic and accuse rightists of being democratic:
...
Cawthorn is basically arguing that his popularity is sufficient qualification for his re-election, whereas we are arguing that he should be disqualified irrespective of his popularity due to his behaviour. This reframes the battle as rule of law (championed by the left) vs democracy (championed by the right).

Are leftists paying attention?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on February 06, 2022, 11:41:11 pm
https://us.yahoo.com/news/haiti-crossroads-must-choose-path-195723221.html

Quote
Haiti is at a crossroads. We must choose the path that leads to democracy

Why?

Quote
Thirty-six years after the fall of the Duvalier dictatorship, Haiti finds itself at a crossroads. My compatriots have turned their backs on the dictatorship and chosen democracy and respect for the rule of law.

Democracy does not respect rule of law. If the majority wants to do something illegal, a democracy will side with majority opinion. This is why refugee pushbacks are happening, you moron.

Quote
Unfortunately, we are far from the right track. The heinous assassination of President Jovenel Moïse last year has brought our country to the brink of chaos, and our institutions are completely dysfunctional. My mission and that of the government over which I preside is to get our country back on track to achieve democracy as soon as possible.

Why?

Quote
To do this, we must create the conditions to move toward free, fair and inclusive elections that will allow the Haitian people to choose their leaders. Any other step is a distraction that can unnecessarily prolong the political instability that disrupts their daily lives.

So you think political instability that disrupts people's daily lives is bad. In that case, why would you want elections once every few years?

Quote
The day after I took office, I began to meet, as promised, with all the political parties and organized groups of civil society, with a view to reaching a political agreement for a peaceful and effective governance for the interim period. This resulted in the signing of an agreement on Sept. 11, 2021 with many political parties, including those that are among the most important, and with a significant amount of civil-society organizations.

So you think effective governance is good. In that case, why would you want many political parties which will only try to obstruct one another from governing effectively in order to prevent them from getting re-elected next time (see above)?

Quote
I have spared no effort in reaching out to my compatriots who prefer a different approach. I do not miss any opportunity to extend to them all a fraternal hand, asking them to do everything possible to honor the words of our flag, “Unity makes us stronger.”

Then you should support fascism, not democracy.

Quote
Today, the top priorities for my administration and the Haitian people are to fight insecurity and poverty; create an enabling environment that will lead to the ratification of a new constitution; and hold general elections by the end of this year. Democratic elections are the only way to overcome the current political crisis.

Why are democratic elections required to fight insecurity and poverty? Have you ever heard of a country called China?

Quote
The Haitian constitution establishes that a president must be elected by the Haitian people. Gone are the days when armed gangs marched on the capital to overthrow a government and impose an unelected president. A president cannot be named, appointed or selected by any group of people or organization. Elections are the only way forward.

How so? Having elections does not preclude armed gangs marching the on capital. Did you not see Jan 6th 2021 in the US?

Also, under democracy, the president is selected by the majority, which is a group of people. Therefore if you believe a president cannot be selected by any group of people, you should not support democracy. Instead, you should support each president choosing their own successor.

Quote
On Feb. 7, I urge all Haitians to come together to face our challenges, so that we become stronger. I am determined to bring all groups together, no matter how hard it might be.

And you think having multiple political parties and elections once every few years is the way to do this?

Quote
Ariel Henry is the prime minister of Haiti.

Ariel Henry clearly does not have a clue what he is talking about.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on February 11, 2022, 11:03:25 pm
A False Leftist agrees with me that Xi and Putin are not ideological autocrats (though the False Leftist thinks this is a good thing):

https://us.yahoo.com/news/worried-russia-china-working-together-140031696.html

Quote
there were also grounds for optimism in the joint statement issued in conjunction with the summit. It began with what can fairly be described as a lengthy and defensive rationalization for the legitimacy of their regimes.
...
rather than claim the superiority of fixed autocratic rule by what Putin and Xi undoubtedly regard as an enlightened elite, the joint statement acknowledges the universality of the value of democratic governance.

Instead, the claim is that the autocrats of the world embody and discern Rousseau’s general will through means other than periodic elections

But then the False Leftist absurdly decides to keep calling them "autocrats" anyway:

Quote
This was not a statement issued by two leaders confident that the future belongs to them. Instead, it was two autocrats worried about becoming isolated or falling victim to a color revolution, and seeking to make the world a bit safer for authoritarian governance.

The values of American democratic capitalism still resonate. It is remarkable how many autocrats around the world, including Putin, feel the need to run periodic rigged elections, to create the pretense of democratic choice to underpin their claims to legitimacy.

Autocratic governance is spreading, not shrinking as it did for a couple of decades. But the appeal of liberty and democratic governance has not shrunk. The autocrats of the world still feel obligated to pay homage to them, and seek to redefine them.

That means they are not autocrats! The only true autocrats are those who would never claim to be democratic because they would consider such a claim an insult to themselves and indeed to the entire pre-colonial history of their countries (implying that they never in their entire pre-colonial history had a system of government better than what Westerners gave them).

Again this goes back to the simple choice I outlined here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/western-democracy/msg3362/#msg3362

Quote
So here it what is comes down to:

A) "Western civilization is not superior to all other civilizations."
B) "Democracy is superior to autocracy."

Challenge for False Leftists: PICK ONE. Because if you believe B), you logically cannot believe A).
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on February 14, 2022, 11:17:54 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgWG8RgHQw4

Yet the TYT morons cannot figure out that everything they are complaining about are exclusive consequences of democracy.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on February 17, 2022, 05:53:05 am
Quote
Republicans have dropped the mask — they openly support fascism. What do we do about it?

Are we so numb we can't see what just happened? Republicans don't even pretend to believe in democracy anymore
https://www.salon.com/2022/02/14/have-dropped-the-mask--they-openly-support-fascism-what-do-we-do-about-it/

Why should leftists pretend we believe in democracy either? If you believe Trump and Trumpists are inferior and don't deserve to be in power, you cannot believe in democracy. If you do believe in democracy, well...next time the Republicans get elected, it's your fault for supporting the system that enables them to keep winning.

Quote
Most important of all, pro-democracy Americans should resist the temptation or urge to compromise with their enemies or appease them. There is no room for "bipartisanship," compromise or truce with the Republican fascists and their allies.
That's literally urging for non-treasonous Americans to stop accepting democracy. FFS! Refusing to compromise would mean refusing to allow them to be in power at all.


God, these useful idiots in the media need to stop calling Republicans fascists. A real implementation of fascism is one of the few things that could end Trumpism for good, by executing him for his crimes and putting all his supporters, who pose a threat to national unity, into gulags.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on February 27, 2022, 09:16:51 pm
Incomprehensible thinking:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/macron-ally-offers-help-far-155638060.html

Quote
PARIS (Reuters) - Francois Bayrou, an ally of French President Emmanuel Macron, said on Sunday that he was prepared to give his signature to help Macron's archrival far-right candidate Marine Le Pen, to stand in April's presidential election.

Bayrou, a centrist and historic figure in French politics, said his move came in an effort to "save democracy", as some candidates, including Le Pen, were struggling to obtain the 500 signatures from elected officials needed to submit a valid bid.

"I have decided (...) - and this is really not my dream when it comes to political engagement - to give my signature to Marine Le Pen", Bayrou told RTL radio on Sunday.

According to French election rules, the signatures are made public, deterring many of France's over 40,000 elected officials to support their candidates despite sharing their views, especially when it comes to the far-right or far-left.

Le Pen, who challenged Macron in the second round of the 2017 elections but has seen her third bid for the Elysee Palace suffer setbacks following a wave of defections from her party and the suspension of her campaign spokesman, thanked Bayrou in a tweet.

"Despite our political disagreements, his approach aims to keep our democracy alive", she said.

Bayrou earlier this month created what he calls a "sponsorship bank", joined by a few hundred local officials, willing to give their signatures to candidates struggling to obtain them, even if they represent a large part of the public according to opinion polls.

The mayor of the rural town of Pau, whose MoDem party accounts for a seizable chunk of President Macron's parliamentary majority, Bayrou said that many thought the rule was unfair.

"Officials, in particular mayors, are wary their signature will be seen as an endorsement", he said. "This is why we decided to make them sign a declaration which says this is for saving democracy, our signature is no endorsement."
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on March 01, 2022, 04:00:22 pm
This is so ridiculous I just had to post. Surrender and then try to "fight" the invasion later by "using democracy in the future"?

What...???

(https://i.imgur.com/EN472RK.jpg)


From what I was able to gather, Iversen is one of those 'political commentators' who serves to herd disgruntled left-leaning people to the right. In this case, it seems she is merely herding people to the most idiotic policy position.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on March 01, 2022, 04:45:57 pm
Michael Beschloss: Biden Needs To Talk About Democracy In ‘Existential Danger’  ??? ::)
Quote
Michael Beschloss, David Plouffe, and Stephanie Cutter join Andrea Mitchell to share their expectations for President Biden’s first State of the Union address. “He comes in at an historic moment,” says Beschloss. “I think he's got to talk tonight about the fact that we are all in existential danger of having our democracy and democracies around the world destroyed.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mWDYrSatLA

Why would Putin want to destroy democracy when it's the best way for tyrants to disguise their actions with the guise that all their actions were actually the "will of the people"?

Quote
In all, three individuals have served four presidencies spanning six full terms. In May 2012, Vladimir Putin became the fourth president; he was re-elected in March 2018 and inaugurated in May to a six-year term.
Title: Re: China and United States Relations
Post by: guest55 on March 02, 2022, 12:58:34 pm
It is amazing to see how many U.S. false-leftists are speaking about "democracy" in regards to the current Ukraine-Russia war. Soldiers die for freedom and their country, not some false-leftists ridiculous belief in democracy being the solution to all problems at all times in every country that's ever existed. These people are insane and just make the rest of us look like idiots for going along with that nonsense.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on March 08, 2022, 08:54:18 pm
Here is another example proving that rightists are the true democrats:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae9-33Zfyj4

They are arguing that investigation of Trump will lead to loss of Blue popular credibility, therefore should not be done. It is leftists who are saying that Trump should be investigated simply because it is the DOJ's job to do so. So why can't leftists simply accept that leftism and democracy are incompatible? If you believe authority derives from what is ethical, not what is popular, you cannot be a democrat.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on March 29, 2022, 04:15:10 am
Contrary to Biden's naive claim that most ordinary Russians do not support Putin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pfb3a9cWgg
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: rp on March 29, 2022, 04:31:51 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pfb3a9cWgg&lc=UgxeUm00Hi0i2XZqzux4AaABAg.9_8zlD-9_kL9_93kfBUDEn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pfb3a9cWgg&lc=UgxeUm00Hi0i2XZqzux4AaABAg.9_8zlD-9_kL9_93kfBUDEn)
Quote
vodka  war and totalitarianism = russian culture
Title: Re: Homo Hubris
Post by: SirGalahad on March 30, 2022, 01:26:29 pm
Swiss overwhelmingly reject ban on animal testing

(https://preview.redd.it/qgjbq5mrkmh81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=79a2a0aafa1a6a806efd980f41782866250c54db)

Every time such a topic comes up on social media, a well-meaning few will suggest that, in principle, it would be preferable to test on violent criminals over non-humans. Those people are immediately attacked, because somehow, a non-human who's done us nothing wrong deserves to be put on the chopping block and exploited more than even the worst human. This is what the concept of "human rights" has done to the western brain, people. Never forget how disgusting and cruel the majority of humans are for even a single second. Lovers of animal testing have become so calloused and adulterated, that they love this sick world enough to willingly sacrifice millions of living beings whose only crime was being born as the "wrong" species. They literally view life down here as a privilege, and want to prolong it for its own sake. The one minor good thing to come from this, is that every time the well-meaning few that I mention are hit with the comeback "Calm down, Mengele", the supporters of animal testing are implicitly stating that the National Socialists weren't western like our old enemy here, Switzerland.

Side note: Even worse than the proud preference for violent humans over presumably innocent non-humans are the passive-aggressive comments that attack true leftists with "Looks like you should be the first to volunteer to be tested then, if you hate animal testing so much." First of all, burn in hell. I'll volunteer once every single human being who supports this has been tested on first. We will no longer fall for the ancient anti-Gnostic mind-game of "Well if you hate the material world then you should set an example by being the first to leave.", or any other similar mind-games like it. If anything, the people who fight against animal testing the most, and benefit from it the least, are the least deserving of being tested on. So it logically follows that if animal testing is wrong, then the people who have praised it and benefited from it the most, are the ones who should be volunteering to move to the front of the line. Of course, the dishonorable are mostly aware of this on at least a subconscious level. They just don't care.
Title: Re: Re: Homo Hubris
Post by: guest55 on March 30, 2022, 07:09:09 pm
Quote
Of course, the dishonorable are mostly aware of this on at least a subconscious level. They just don't care.

And, it is these types that will continue to reproduce, whilst I suspect that the drop in human birth rates are noble people choosing not to reproduce and bring children into this world because they understand how terrible most human-beings really are on a fundamental level. Things will get 10 times worse on this planet for non-humans once all traces of true nobility have been bred out of humanity by the ignoble. What a dark and dismal world that will be....
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on April 03, 2022, 08:44:42 pm
Democracy consistently continues to deliver rightism:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-viktor-orban-europe-nato-budapest-e29b5d42a86086bb65b413e2b6d1c2bc

Quote
BUDAPEST, Hungary (AP) — Hungary’s nationalist Prime Minister Viktor Orban declared victory in Sunday’s national elections, claiming a mandate for a fourth term as a still incomplete vote count showed a strong lead for his right-wing party.

In a 10-minute speech to Fidesz party officials and supporters at an election night event in Budapest, Orban addressed a crowd cheering “Viktor!” and declared it was a “huge victory” for his party.

“We won a victory so big that you can see it from the moon, and you can certainly see it from Brussels,” said Orban, who has often been condemned by the European Union for overseeing democratic backsliding and alleged corruption.

While votes were still being tallied, it appeared clear that the question was not whether Orban’s Fidesz party would take the election, but by how much.

With around 91% of votes tallied, Orban’s Fidesz-led coalition had won 53%, while a pro-European opposition coalition, United for Hungary, had just over 34%, according to the National Election Office.
...
“We have heard a lot of nonsense recently about whether there is democracy in Hungary,” Kovacs said. “Hungarian democracy in the last 12 years has not weakened, but been strengthened.”
...
In a surprise performance, radical right-wing party Our Homeland Movement appeared to have garnered more than 6% of the vote, exceeding the 5% threshold needed to gain seats in parliament.

Also:

https://barenakedislam.com/2022/03/30/france-majority-agree-with-presidential-candidate-eric-zemmours-plan-to-remigrate-one-million-mostly-muslim-migrants-with-criminal-records/

Quote
Even 34% of Leftists agree with this plan.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on April 07, 2022, 10:40:26 pm
Quote
Democracy consistently continues to deliver rightism:

This must be by Westerners and false-leftists love it SO much!? For example, these Westerners want Republicans to return to democracy even after they just recently elected Trump:

Let's talk about how Putin is saving the Republican party from itself....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Os1BYw1s_E&t=44s

Which begs the question, how many Trump's and Putin's will need to be elected before Westerners let their delusion go? Furthermore, how come most of these Westerners do not seek democracy in business because their boss displays authoritarian tendencies?

Perhaps the biggest problem with Westerners and why they love democracy so much is because they believe most people are good, because they believe themselves to be good?

Most Americans think that the majority of the country aren't bad people, but poorer Americans are less likely to think the world tends to be good
https://today.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2015/09/30/world-more-good-people-than-bad

The problem with polls such as the one stated in the article above is the fact that the person taking the poll cannot know for certain whether or not the person they are asking the question, "do you believe most people are good or bad?", is actually a good or bad person themselves. Lastly, one does not have to look too far to realize that most people are not compassionate or empathetic:
(https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-let-me-say-it-openly-we-are-surrounded-by-an-enterprise-of-degradation-cruelty-and-killing-j-m-coetzee-78-12-74.jpg)

Quote
Are humans in the majority good, compassionate, kind hearted and generous, or are they bad, manipulative, selfish and untrustworthy?

People can be split into five main categories when it comes to morality (which I assume is what you are asking). The boundaries are blurred and people under stress may "go back" a stage or two. Using stealing as an example (but any bad behaviour can be inserted):

Amoral: These will steal, regardless of consequences and feel no remorse whatsoever
Expedient: These will steal and only feel bad about it if they are found out
Conformist: These will not steal because someone else has told them not to (not because of any internalised sense of decency)
Irrational Altruistic: These will tend not to steal because, if they did, they would not feel good about themselves
Rational Altruistic: These will not steal because they would not feel good about themselves but also because it would not be fair to, or nice for, the other person (ie they are able to empathise).

As "good, compassionate, kind hearted and generous" only really describes the rational altruistic, then most people can probably be considered "bad, manipulative, selfish and untrustworthy". From personal experience and observation, I suspect that the majority of humans are Expedient!

    Pennie, Nottingham, UK

I agree with Penny! The majority of humans are not good people and this fact is easily proven!
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on April 09, 2022, 11:20:44 pm
This Man Votes
Quote
He'll be voting in November. Will you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81kMaPi_Hug

Comment:
Quote
Vlad Putin and his ex-KGB pals would be so PROUD of you MAGAfans!
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on April 18, 2022, 08:19:47 pm
Continuing from:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/news/brexit/msg12818/#msg12818

Why do any leftists still support democracy?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10723057/Britons-Boris-Johnsons-Rwanda-plan-poll-says-Huge-support-defies-hand-wringing-critics.html

Quote
Voters back Boris Johnson’s plan to send asylum seekers to Rwanda by two to one, a poll revealed last night.

The survey for the Daily Mail found that even Labour voters are more likely to support it than oppose it

Only a small minority care about being ethical. They, not the majority, should be the ones who make the important decisions:

Quote
Gillian Triggs, assistant high commissioner at the UN refugee agency, said the scheme was ‘unacceptable’ and a breach of international law.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on April 21, 2022, 09:08:39 pm
Again our enemies accurately demonstrate that they are the true democrats:

https://www.eurocanadians.ca/2022/04/russia-ukraine-disinformation-what-are-they-hiding.html

Quote
Could it be that Russia has a legitimate reason for this war? Could this war be considered a just war from Russia’s point of view? When we “connect the dots” of the past few decades, a picture that contradicts the “approved” narrative starts to emerge. To see clearly involves taking a trip down the “Rabbit Hole”.

So what do our enemies claim is the source of legitimacy?

Quote
Mearsheimer’s predictions are based on exposing the facts of the 2014 Maidan coup d’etat in Ukraine that threw out the democratically elected pro-Russian Prime Minister, Victor Yanukovich.
...
As soon as Ukraine came closer to being incorporated into NATO after the Maidan coup, Russia’s immediate response was to re-annex the Crimean peninsula to Russia. This was a move wildly popular with the largely Russian population of Crimea who had voted strongly in the 2010 election for the deposed Prime Minister Yanukovich.  Russia held a referendum in Crimea on the choice of reunion with Russia. The vote was overwhelmingly in favour. In a flash, NATO lost its bid to take over Sevastopol.
...
the largely ethnic Russian East Ukrainian region of the Donbas, which had also voted overwhelmingly for the deposed Prime Minister Yanukovich, attempted to break away from Ukraine now that the coup had effectively disenfranchised them. They formed the breakaway republics of Donetz and Lugansk, and also sought annexation by Russia.

NATO was never about democracy; during the Cold War, NATO was happy to ally with autocracies so long as they were willing to fight the Soviets. This is what NATO needs to get back to. The sooner NATO drops its idiotic "pro-democracy" rhetoric, the sooner China stops feeling threatened by NATO and hence might see the sense in allying with NATO against Russia!
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on May 14, 2022, 01:27:37 pm
Although rightists are eager to claim he embraces dictatorship, I think it is equally as likely he was just trying to "warn" that the West's "adversaries" were gaining ground on them.
Quote
Justin Trudeau Said He Admired China’s Dictatorship.
[...]
At a “ladies night” fundraiser in Toronto in 2013, an up-and-coming politician was asked which nation’s administration he admired most in the world.

Wearing a pale blue shirt and a smile, the fresh-faced Liberal Party leader answered Communist China.

“There is a level of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say we need to go green, we need to start, you know, investing in solar,” Justin Trudeau told the group of women. “There is a flexibility that I know [Prime Minister] Stephen Harper must dream about: having a dictatorship where you can do whatever you wanted, that I find quite interesting.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20220412170532/https://fee.org/articles/justin-trudeau-said-he-admired-china-s-dictatorship-canadians-should-have-believed-him/

Quote
Trudeau took to social media Friday to explain himself.

“I pointed out that globally, Canada is up against big countries (China, for one) that can address some major issues quickly,” he wrote on Twitter.

“It’s ridiculous for anyone to suggest that I of all people would trade our rights and freedoms for any other system of (government).”

Trudeau made the remarks during a ladies-only fundraiser billed as “Justin Unplugged,” which invited women “to (really) get to know the future prime minister.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20220418221326/https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-under-fire-for-expressing-admiration-for-china-s-basic-dictatorship-1.1535116

His response at 1:35 is something so many democracy-worshiping liberals say completely honestly. ...Like, if they just thought about what the words they are saying actually mean, maybe they would realize how pitiful democracy is...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8FuHuUhNZ0
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on May 14, 2022, 01:33:08 pm
This article is behind a paywall, but many people have written similar headlines about elected judges and elected sheriffs. ...When will they realize electing politicians is just as dangerous for society?

Quote
America’s elected coroners are too often a public-health liability
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/01/29/americas-elected-coroners-are-too-often-a-public-health-liability
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on May 14, 2022, 01:50:52 pm
Quote
The survey team found that compared to public opinion patterns in the U.S., in China there was very high satisfaction with the central government. In 2016, the last year the survey was conducted, 95.5 percent of respondents were either “relatively satisfied” or “highly satisfied” with Beijing. In contrast to these findings, Gallup reported in January of this year that their latest polling on U.S. citizen satisfaction with the American federal government revealed only 38 percent of respondents were satisfied with the federal government.
[...]
This result supports the findings of more recent shorter-term surveys in China, and reinforces long-held patterns of citizens reporting local grievances to Beijing in hopes of central government action. “I think citizens often hear that the central government has introduced a raft of new policies, then get frustrated when they don’t always see the results of such policy proclamations, but they think it must be because of malfeasance or foot-dragging by the local government,” said Saich.

Compared to the relatively high satisfaction rates with Beijing, respondents held considerably less favorable views toward local government. At the township level, the lowest level of government surveyed, only 11.3 percent of respondents reported that they were “very satisfied.”

Again, the U.S. reveals quite a different story. “American trust surveys over time show a clear distinction between low levels of trust towards the federal government, but a strong belief and faith in the power of local government — at the most local level, those positions may be filled by part-time volunteers who are a part of your everyday life,” said Cunningham. This dichotomy is highlighted by a 2017 Gallup poll, where 70 percent of U.S. respondents had a “great” or “fair” amount of trust in local government.

Saich contends that the lack of trust in local governments in China is due to the fact that they provide the vast majority of services to the Chinese people. This trust deficit was compounded by the 1994 tax reforms, which garnered a substantially larger share of total national tax revenues for the central government. Local governments, despite being faced with declining revenues, were still on the hook for providing the bulk of public services throughout China.
[...]
The responses from survey participants in rural areas, however, surprised the researchers, particularly over time. “We did not anticipate how quickly both low-income citizens and people from less-developed regions in China closed the satisfaction gap with high-income citizens and people from the coastal areas,” Cunningham added.

The surveys found that rural residents, generally poorer than those in cities, had more optimistic attitudes about inequality than their wealthier urban counterparts.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/

Imagine that, a 95.5% satisfaction rate when your nation isn't pitted in a battle for 49% of the population vs 51%...

As for the local governments, note the misleading comparison of asking Chinese citizens if they were "satisfied" vs the US poll asking if people "trusted" the local governments. You can give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't massively corrupt without being satisfied by them. ...And I imagine US satisfaction with local government would  be even lower if they actually provided any substantial amount of services. Non-existent public transit, poor road maintenance, locally-controlled police who are so corrupt they can get away with murder and steal more than non-police criminals, terrible city planning which promotes suburban sprawl and car-centric travel, etc.... People vote for the most unsatisfying policies and then wonder why things suck.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest55 on May 22, 2022, 12:06:55 pm
Biden voters were much more likely to report negative voting than Trump voters in the 2020 election
Quote
In the 2020 election, many Americans chose to vote due to their hatred of the opposing candidate, rather than their fondness for their chosen politician. A study published in American Political Research seeks to understand the dynamics behind this so-called “negative voting” pattern.

Politics is regularly a field that contains a lot of negativities, but the 2020 American presidential election was particularly difficult and polarizing. Negative voting is a choice made by constituents to vote for a certain candidate, not because they want to support them, but because they do not want their opposing candidate to win.

This is in contrast with voters who vote because they have positive feelings about their own party and their candidate. Though this is not a new concept, it is very prevalent at this point in time with approximately one third of voters in the 2020 election casting a negative vote for president.
Quote
Researchers Diego Garzia and Frederico Ferreira da Silva utilized a Computer Assisted Web Interview survey conducted by Qualtrics. It included 1,064 participants to represent the American voting pool. Participants were presented with a direct measure of negative voting, where they were asked if they view their vote as an expression or support for their candidate or opposition for the competing candidate. Votes against are considered negative votes.

Results showed that approximately 30% of participants cast a negative vote. Despite the polarization the 2020 election brought, this is not significantly more than in previous elections. Interestingly, Biden voters were much more likely (39%) to report negative voting than Trump voters (18%).

This is in line with previous research that showed that the incumbent candidate was more often the target of negative voting than the challenger. Negative voting is seen less in people with strong party affiliations and can go as high as 50% among people who swing between parties or identify as independents.
Quote
This study sought to revisit the idea of negative voting in regard to the very polarizing 2020 presidential election. Despite the strengths, this study has some limitations. For example, post-electoral surveys can lead to post-election rationalization, which could skew the results. Additionally, online surveys have come under fire many times for potentially being less accurate and being completed less carefully.

The study, “The Electoral Consequences of Affective Polarization? Negative Voting in the 2020 US Presidential Election“, was authored by Diego Garzia and Frederico Ferreira da Silva.
https://www.psypost.org/2022/05/biden-voters-were-much-more-likely-to-report-negative-voting-than-trump-voters-in-the-2020-election-63174

This Man Votes 2
Quote
When they show you who they are, believe them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT_4dPiGSNA

In other-words, people are forced to vote for "the lesser of two evils", which means they're often still voting for evil. This is democracy.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on May 30, 2022, 12:00:40 am
I assume this is not satire. It really illustrates just how incapable democracy is of functioning. The politicians just vote to hold themselves unaccountable. LOL

(https://i.redd.it/8e81iqfc61291.jpg)

Note that one of the major supposed differences between autocracy and democracy is that, in a democracy, politicians are theoretically able to be held "accountable" for their actions by the check and balance of voting. But little good that's ever done.

Meanwhile, corrupt monarchs and dynasties were often overthrown by other dynasties or individuals who claimed they could do a better job.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on June 16, 2022, 10:25:54 pm
Some good news for once:
Quote
Poll: Half of Americans now predict U.S. may 'cease to be a democracy' someday

A new Yahoo News/YouGov poll shows that most Democrats (55%) and Republicans (53%) now believe it is “likely” that America will “cease to be a democracy in the future” — a stunning expression of bipartisan despair about the direction of the country.

Half of all Americans (49%) express the same sentiment when independents and those who do not declare any political affiliation are factored in, while just a quarter (25%) consider the end of U.S. democracy unlikely and another quarter (25%) say they’re unsure.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-half-of-americans-now-predict-us-may-cease-to-be-a-democracy-someday-090028564.html

Although, to be realistic, it is likely that the 53% of Republicans want to end democracy to empower themselves, while the 55% of Democrats fear that Republicans are going to be the ones who end democracy.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on June 21, 2022, 08:33:25 pm
Rightists are the authentic democrats:

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-secede-us-2023-gop-pushes-referendum-1717254

Quote
The Texas GOP's new party platform also called for full repeal of the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965

Quote
the Act sought to secure the right to vote for racial minorities throughout the country, especially in the South. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, the Act is considered to be the most effective piece of federal civil rights legislation ever enacted in the country.[9] It is also "one of the most far-reaching pieces of civil rights legislation in U.S. history."[10]

The Voting Rights Act of 1965 defends suffragism, not democracy. As I explained here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/how-the-u-s-stole-mexico/msg13791/#msg13791

Quote
Rightists are the true democrats in that they still hold to the original definition of the demos. False Leftists, who favour non-demos people voting also, would be more accurately labelled as suffragists. Suffragism is thus a way to undermine (traditional) democracy without abandoning elections. Of course True Leftists differ from False Leftists in that we would prefer to openly defeat democracy by ending elections altogether. Nevertheless, until we succeed in ending elections, we of course pragmatically prefer suffragism over (traditional) democracy, which is why we support:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/demographic-blueshift/

True Leftists (authentic autocrats) have been reluctantly forced into an emergency coalition with False Leftists (suffragists, who inaccurately call themselves "democrats") solely in order to keep rightists (authentic democrats, who are nevertheless inaccurately called "autocrats" by False Leftists) from winning.

Back to first link, further evidence that rightists are the authentic democrats:

Quote
The platform describes homosexuality as "an abnormal lifestyle choice," and also declares that the party opposes "all efforts to validate transgender identity."

Majority opinion within the demos is all that matters to authentic democrats (ie. rightists). They do not care about minority opinion within the demos, nor do they care about opinions of non-demos people (irrespective of number).
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: Zea_mays on July 19, 2022, 09:13:02 am
Another liberal reactionary article disgusting enough to pick it apart line by line:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5vg5x/we-cant-save-democracy-just-by-voting

Quote
We Can’t Save Democracy Just by Voting

In a country as fundamentally hostile to democracy as ours, limiting it to the political sphere makes little sense.

??? We can't save democracy through democracy, so we need more democracy? How braindead are these people?

Quote
It's a simple point that's been made over and over again in the wake of these decisions, but it bears repeating: That a handful of unelected officials can act against the interests of the majority in this way shows how threadbare our democracy is, and how deeply hostile our country’s institutions are to it.

??? Supreme Court seats were a major campaign issue which caused Republicans to elect Trump and a campaign issue for the parties to battle over the Senate. That's democracy.

Quote
The vast majority of decisions about how our lives are run, after all, are made without any input from the public. How our society’s resources are invested—what gets made, when, how, and why—as well as how the spaces and platforms that mediate our lives are run are all decisions made without much public input.

Good, do you want low-information Trump voters deciding how to run environmental policy?

Oh wait, the power of the unelected professionals at the EPA was recently limited in order to make it more democratic:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/30/-supreme-court-says-epa-lacks-authority-on-climate-standards-for-power-plants.html

Quote
There’s a rhetorical commitment to political democracy, but it amounts to nothing if we don’t democratize everything and allow people to have a direct say in the things that affect their lives.

That's already happening actually. Trumpers (led by Steve Bannon, etc.) have been engaging in a campaign to win every single elected office from school boards on up, and have openly been boasting about controlling the entire "election apparatus" from the people who staff polling places on election day all the way up to secretaries of state who support the coup:
https://www.salon.com/2022/07/11/ron-desantis-handpicked-radical-far-right-secretary-of-state-will-oversee-his-race/

Quote
Voting is one of the main examples held up as proof of our democratic politics. For most of this country’s history, the United States was explicitly run as an apartheid state that withheld personhood, then citizenship, then suffrage from African Americans until 1965.

Yeah, because people voted for apartheid.

Quote
"The court's aim, much like the conservative legal movement's, is not theocracy but privatization," wrote McCray. "With privatization comes the license to discriminate more wantonly against those who have long had limited or no access to the public good and the resources that support it."

...That's literally what "democratization" of every aspect of our daily lives would entail. The elimination of any form of professional administration and replacement by whoever has the most campaign/propaganda/bribe budgets...

Quote
In the Federalist Papers and at the Constitutional Conventions, Madison was unambiguous about the threat he believed democracy posed to the proposed American republic.

Federalist No. 10 warned against the “mischief of factions,” defined as groups “united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adversed to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community." Factions would be guarded against by limiting democracy in a few key ways: democratic involvement would be limited to representation not direct deliberation; institutions would be created to prevent a majority from monopolizing policy and making minority interests feel permanently excluded.

At the Constitutional Convention, Madison was more explicit in his antipathy for democracy. In one debate that took place in June 1787 over the design of the Senate, Madison laid out the vision of a body protecting the “minority of the opulent” from the threat of democracy. “Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests and to balance and check the other.”

In other words, the core problem with democracy for the Constitution’s key framer was the public and its ability to participate.

...Ok, and in our current system of universal suffrage we still have the mischief of factions (far worse than it ever was in history) and the opulent elites have arguably more power than ever.

Quote
Walter Lippmann—a journalist whose ideas about democracy and liberalism were widely influential in the 20th century—wrote extensively about the problem of the public and its unwieldy nature. In his 1925 book Phantom Public, he writes that “the public must be put in its place” so that “each of us may live free of the trampling and the roar of a bewildered herd." In the same book, he explains the public's role is not to "pass judgment on the intrinsic merits" of policy—public opinion is actually "a reserve of force brought into action during a crisis in public affairs."

Non-expert, low-information, reactionary judgment from the public is especially bad in times of crisis (e.g. the "non-binding" Brexit referendum), but being trampled under the bewildered herd of Trumpers in normal times is considerably annoying as well.

Quote
In Bouie's column as well, the articulation of slaveholder and statesman John C. Calhoun's explicit apartheid system as well as its more informal version found in the Jim Crow South could be read as continuing this long tradition of Madisonian (and fundamentally American) hostility towards democracy in the name of elite rule.

No, the majority of voters voted to take away the ability of "black" people to vote...

Quote
The thread running through both reactionary and liberal thought on democracy here is that when it’s not outright opposed, it should be sharply limited to a form that simply ratifies decisions made by elites.

What would things look like if we took democracy a bit more seriously—if we cultivated the public not as a force to be projected or crushed, but as the integral part of the body politic?

Hmm, in today's world of expanded universal suffrage, democracy remains a way to give legitimacy to decisions made by elites:
Quote
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.
(https://static.cambridge.org/binary/version/id/urn:cambridge.org:id:binary-alt:20170126184834-00965-mediumThumb-S1537592714001595_fig1g.jpg)

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B

Whether 0% or 100% of citizens favor a policy, there is no statistical difference whether it gets enacted.

That means, if average citizens took something seriously enough that literally 100% of non-elites were able to agree on something, then, purely through voting and the democratic process, nothing would change.

This image needs to be posted any time a liberal says we just need to vote.

Quote
There are a multitude of remedies that spring from this prognosis that serve to more fully democratize our society. Some circumvent the democracy deficit in this country by applying pressure directly—uprisings and sabotage can serve to subvert some ends, hold feet to the fire, and crystalize further actions for movements to take. Dewey, a progressive liberal, may have shied away from these more explicitly insurrectionary methods, but still believed a revolution of sorts was necessary to save this country and the traces of democracy within it.

...What? Since universal suffrage isn't giving you the intended result, you try to "democratize" society using highly non-democratic means?  ???

Quote
A core thrust of Dewey’s philosophy was that democracy was not compatible with a system that prioritized private control—not just politics, but the economy itself.
[...]
At the time, Dewey was advocating for a new party to embark on a social revolution that would create a real democracy in America by reorganizing industry and production along social and moral ends, as opposed to private profit first and foremost. Public control and ownership of various sectors, undermining corporate control and concentration across the economy, erecting stronger barriers between the state and the private sector, prioritizing technological development that has a social purpose as opposed to an attractive or speculative profit potential, are all some of the principles that can orient us as we ask how to expand and cultivate democracy instead of following the lead of America’s major institutions and thinkers in curbing it.

That type of state control of society directed towards populist ends sounds like National Socialism or Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, rather than anything that is capable of existing under democracy.

Even liberals during Dewey's time (including Lippmann!) recognized this fact, and supported FDR becoming a dictator!

Quote
The greatest applause from the large crowd on the east side of the Capitol came when Roosevelt said that if his rescue program was not quickly approved: "I shall ask Congress for the one remaining instrument to meet the crisis: broad executive power to wage war against the emergency, as great as the power that would be given to me if we were in fact invaded by a foreign foe."
[...]
And so the approving headline FOR DICTATORSHIP IF NECESSARY ran in the New York Herald-Tribune on March 5, with similar notes stuck in the Inauguration coverage of other major papers.
[...]
In preparing for the broadcast, someone in the small Roosevelt inner circle offered the new president a typewritten draft of suggested additions that contained this eye-popping sentence:

As new commander-in-chief under the oath to which you are still bound I reserve to myself the right to command you in any phase of the situation which now confronts us.

This was dictator talk -- an explicit power grab. The new president was contemplating his "right" to command World War I veterans -- mostly men in their late thirties -- who had long since reentered civilian life.
[...]
But the commander in chief had no power over them. Here Roosevelt would be poised to mobilize hundreds of thousands of unemployed and desperate men by decree, apparently to guard banks or put down rebellions or do anything else he wished during "any phase" of the crisis, with the insistence that they were dutybound to obey his concocted "command."

That word -- "dictator" -- had been in the air for weeks, endorsed vaguely as a remedy for the Depression by establishment figures ranging from the owners of the New York Daily News, the nation's largest circulation newspaper, to Walter Lippmann, the eminent columnist who spoke for the American political elite. "The situation is critical, Franklin. You may have no alternative but to assume dictatorial powers," Lippmann had told FDR during a visit to Warm Springs on February 1, before the crisis escalated. Alfred E. Smith, the Democratic nominee for president in 1928, recalled with some exaggeration that "during the World War we wrapped the Constitution in a piece of paper, put it on the shelf and left it there until the war was over." The Depression, Smith concluded, was a similar "state of war." Even Eleanor Roosevelt, more liberal than her husband, privately suggested that a "benevolent dictator" might be what the country needed. The vague idea was not a police state but deference to a strong leader unfettered by Congress or the other inconveniences of democracy.
[...]
Within a few years, "dictator" would carry sinister tones, but -- hard as it is to believe now -- the word had a reassuring ring that season. So did "storm troopers," used by one admiring author to describe foot soldiers of the early New Deal, and "concentration camps," a generic term routinely applied to the work camps of the Civilian Conservation Corps that would be established by summer across the country. After all, the Italian Fascist Benito Mussolini, in power for a decade, had ginned up the Italian economy and was popular with everyone from Winston Churchill to Will Rogers to Lowell Thomas, America's most influential broadcaster. "If ever this country needed a Mussolini, it needs one now," said Senator David Reed of Pennsylvania, outgoing President Hoover's closest friend on Capitol Hill. The speech draft prepared for FDR brought to mind Mussolini addressing his black-shirt followers, many of whom were demobilized veterans who joined Il Duce's private army.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5525748

Quote
he magazine Commonweal, meanwhile, put forth the contention that Roosevelt should assume "the powers of a virtual dictatorship to reorganize the government".[6] Roger Babson called for limitations to be imposed on the powers of Congress, including the abolition of the United States Senate, while Will Rogers supported proposals to extend extraordinary powers to Roosevelt by writing that "Mussolini could take our country today and put people back to work at the rate of one million per month".[7] Roosevelt received letters from around the nation imploring him to assume extraordinary powers.[6]

The month prior to his March 1933 inauguration, Speaker John Nance Garner introduced legislation into the U.S. House of Representatives that would allow the presidency the unilateral authority to suspend congressional appropriations, abolish government departments, dismiss civil servants at his discretion, and reduce statutory appropriations and contractual payments, with Congress only able to check such measures with a two-thirds supermajority in both houses.[8] Bertrand Snell – leader of the Republican Party in the House – criticized the bill which, he said, would "make an absolute dictator of Roosevelt. It would give him more power than any executive leader in the world except Mussolini".[9]
https://web.archive.org/web/20210813031152/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_dictatorship

Quote
"There's a long tradition and body of work in economics and democratic theory that shows you can't just have democracy in the political sphere—you have to extend democracy to other branches of life like the economic sphere," said Thomas Hanna, research director at the Democracy Collaborative.

...Oh, and what type of people have been writing these "traditions"?

Quote
“This tradition of economic democracy, of extending people's abilities and rights into economic decisions that impact their lives, their family's lives, their community's lives, you just don't get that with private ownership.”

That's called autocratic socialism. "Economic democracy" is literally private ownership where the most competitively successful and wealthy businesses control the outcome of democracy. Which is what we have now, and which is what Hitler pointed out as one of the biggest problems of democracy 100 years ago. (i.e. the competitive traits that made the "bourgeoisie" class successful in business made them successful in democratic politics, to the detriment of society.)

Quote
Putting the agriculture and energy sectors under public control might help preempt inflationary prices for key commodities, but it could also give communities more control over the sort of production that goes on, whose needs it meets, and the way their lives are shaped as a result. Nationalizing meat packers, electric or gas companies, oil refineries, grain traders, and other key nodes of various supply chains would give more room for designs that prioritize other ends than private profit (sustainability, labor conditions, zero emissions, etc.). A public healthcare system might bring down costs of medication or operations, but it could also liberate the army of people whose labor is subordinated to protecting private health insurance and its profits.

Breaking up or banning some of the tech platforms that mediate our lives might eliminate the more odious forms of labor underwriting their operation, but it would also give people a chance to create social networks and communities driven by interests outside of profit and regulatory arbitrage.

 ??? ::) How can anyone believe that is democracy? Moreover, presumably once the entire economy is nationalized/placed under a centrally-directed model, each sector will have to be managed by experts, rather than voted on by idiots who know nothing about running the world's most complex economy.

Seriously, read the quoted section again. Only someone brainwashed into a cult which worships democracy without thinking can think that in any way resembles democracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion
Title: Exposing the Inferiority of Liberal People who Support Democracy
Post by: guest30 on July 28, 2022, 10:47:36 pm
I'm recently doing a debate with the people who always support democracy even though there's a flaw on it. See this photographed Discord conversation

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/eb7620eb00a2948326fadeee4b5217c9/ffee4afbb9c5051a-d4/s2048x3072/8bc64ea87c0a748c11385b72dc337c67c945f665.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 22th July 2022, 16 : 12 Jakarta Time


Explanation 1 :

Account named "Aetherius Cassius" say that democracy can resulting the wrong policy. And the majorities who made the policy will suffer. And I explained to him that his statements shows the flaw of democracy.

Account named "Zahra" said that democracy is needed for the sake the government really know the will of the people.

And "Aetherius Cassius" said that the modern world need liberal-democracy. Even though he already explained the flaws of democracy and emphasized by me.



(https://64.media.tumblr.com/98672371de1e07c5d66db01190547ca0/ffee4afbb9c5051a-9f/s2048x3072/9e962833cd056939893546083537651df5bd93ff.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 22th July 2022, 16 : 16 Jakarta Time

Explanation 2 :

I'm explain that the democracy will allow people to do the bad things like exploit the another group of innocent people for the sake of majority will. But "Zahra" answered with pretending that historical facts is not result from democracy.

Then I explained again example of the evilness of democracy through how Bismarck forced to did German colonialism in "Africa"'s territory because of majority of inferior Germans wanted Germany to did that thing.



(https://64.media.tumblr.com/b832a289731d1dc23e4e300fe480e452/ffee4afbb9c5051a-50/s2048x3072/12c03492606ffdd03bae7f2a166705b2d977efa7.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 22th July 2022, 16 : 18 Jakarta Time

Explanation 3 :

"Zahra" said that showing of her ignorance on fact that the colonialism are result of democracy. And consider "imperialism" (Actually, the accurate term of European conquest is "colonization") is not part of democratic policy and consider it "non-issue" of the current conversation during that time. What an inferior girl...

And "Aetherius Cassius" got confused and answer with confusion, that such colonialism policy is politically "against democracy" and not a "triumph of democracy". Even though that colonialism was resulted from the will of majority during that time.


 
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/fe5f3931619dd62c6bad6dfb626b9665/ffee4afbb9c5051a-7b/s2048x3072/98af212f1cba65005e6df70272909b14d9aa27bd.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 22th July 2022, 16 : 20 Jakarta Time

Explanation 4 :

I'm explaining again that majority will oftenly resulting oppressive policy. Like Jim Crow law, the Israel colonialism, and the democratic Western nations's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. And "Zahra" with her inferior mentality consider that my explanation was based on "American's democracy", which according to her is "not a democracy." She not want to take accountability that the democratic system which she support is resulting many oppressive policies to the innocent communities.

"Aetherius Cassius" with his ignorance said that the tragedy of historical international relations are not relevant to the problem of democracy. Even though that invasions, racial oppression, and colonialism are more than one time explained, that it was happen because of democracy...



The Discord Group Doelian Society

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/c22d7384590a3419127e50416d354d17/3b89f769989e5de3-50/s2048x3072/67b865af18a9743f790b868c128e3e0d20ed75f4.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 29th July 2022, 10 : 43 Jakarta Time





Title: Debate with the Federalist Liberal Retard (Libtard)
Post by: guest30 on August 01, 2022, 12:38:33 am
Report of Debate with the inferior liberals and the democrats during Saturday, 30th July 2022

Picture of photographed debate conversation

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/98c3084356c07b7fcf456e380c1d2358/dd0ea41eb62fc7f5-78/s2048x3072/2de37718b5a6b8ebb15598160a56550656e8e81d.jpg)

Explanation 1 :

I'm explain that the democracy resulting unethical policies to the world's environment and the innocent peoples, like colonialism and unnecessary war.


(https://64.media.tumblr.com/52e9559f5998436605fe958640c45872/077441d51fd9f0a1-ae/s2048x3072/d9ed7dd6e9c56819b588dd77a618c7f28803c4ac.jpg)

Explanation 2 :

They rather blame the outdated meaning of democracy rather than acknowledge that the way of how democracy works. Which from there it resulting the unethical policies, unnecessary war, and colonialism. So they keep showing their wrong arguments.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/a30cd1e894b73fc07e9c2e5a459ab971/180d79834f6e16f7-a5/s640x960/55c82b9e8723bf9855246b19a8c516063a7f7ac0.jpg)

Explanation 3 :

They merely explain that the democracy can solve the world oppression with using Rawlsianism's definition of democracy. Even though I'm already explain that the modern democracy still resulting big oppression to the non-Western world, which already using Rawlsianism. And another member explain that "white" people are minority if compared to the rest of the people in the world which out of topic

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/55a9537e5fdfb3b1b1a482487ffabe52/2899e0616de07677-08/s2048x3072/7895f1dbb199ccc9c3e4d14d7754c3d6f506cb17.jpg)

Explanation 4 :

She keep ignoring that the result of democracy on today's time which I'm already explained are "not relevant to the recent political-science theory". Actually, it's democracy which still used today based on "political-science theory", which keep today's world problem happening without strong opposition. What an inferior girl....

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ed7037a5a70414971c1b05b6119a8cec/61fbb41a08394b4f-d5/s2048x3072/ab1dfff0a53f19437ddc20b2cb2227c7b571dbd8.jpg)

Explanation 5 :

I'm show the 2016 news poll about Colonialism by British Empire. Which 44 percents of the people agree that it was good, and only 19 percents who say it was bad. And I ask them to answer on how the democracy solve that problem.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/384c3bf6e5a4250e1b83b31e52c42bef/003074cc27b5dc27-8b/s640x960/02aa77fc28a8744e4fe3f971765863b08e49e757.jpg)

Explanation 6 :

I already explain that Trump who won on 2016 which resulting oppressive policies to the innocents is because of democracy. But she still deny that it has relevance to the implementation of Aristotelian democracy.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/68d3a95b76cb2596df957d8da739bb4c/dd0ea41eb62fc7f5-29/s2048x3072/7b5563cd66ea5169113a78f6eef46b91dfab5d99.jpg)

Explanation 7 :

She begin to ask a question which really out of topic, like questioning my ages. It means she fail to answer my arguments and fail to make the arguments about the evilness of democracy were wrong.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/f546af1a29cdabf8d542f8baba8d3da9/1f54b2faa3fe5367-b8/s2048x3072/87ca528b75d9df3e4a73304c14eb2be436290543.jpg)

Explanation 8 :

Some member explain that the people don't have to agree to what the idea is. So he justify the people not agree with opposition to what I say that colonialism, bullying, racialism is bad.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/22d5ae36084d8d0a02e3ab64660dbf30/dd0ea41eb62fc7f5-f9/s2048x3072/c724c09f301f554b919388077a1595ca91fc99e6.jpg)

Explanation 9 :

She keep saying that liberalism said that racism is bad. If it was like that, then why the pro-colonial mindset from the British people still exist? She even ignore the fact about colonial polls which I've shown on previous conversation before... She is ignorant inferior unterfrau...

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/d5820c2ceb63305cc7ea71d0802d02e0/dd0ea41eb62fc7f5-a9/s2048x3072/55ca1e2fcfbc2ce1291b433856a8caf764c1eab6.jpg)

Explanation 10 :

I'm answering with show the list of oppressive ideological movements. And she questioning me about what I think on Jewish people which not relevant to the topic discussion.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/958305bbe825f0f3ab3eaf3cf136ac9c/e944ce69f158e249-a1/s640x960/46a63c17d4adbea284620ade1dadf827c23b9d09.jpg)

Explanation 11 :

And a member just consider me as an "oppressive" only because I'm want to do that. So he disagree if we want to oppress the oppressive movements for the sake implementing the community of people which free from democratic tyranny and Zionist people's domination for example... The liberals attitude just make our struggle for reviving the fatherland hindered. And he mentioned me as "double standart" without any reeason.

The sudden ban on me from their Discord group close the discussion. So, the only way to debunk our ideological arguments is with banning, judging, and mocking. That is the proper way, remember that...

Apologize if the sentence above is make you feel got satirized when debate with us.


Discord Grup "Young World Federalist"

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/a76910067e13352d8208304a67d4a88a/e25575c9e5f12974-45/s2048x3072/293ef2d28cd08357940b8b4b2b80042f3852a6f4.jpg)

Photographed on Saturday, 30th July 2022, 15 : 10 Jakarta Time










Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: SirGalahad on August 01, 2022, 02:53:46 am
They’re misguided fools. They have their hearts in the right place with some of the things that they say, but they’ve been fooled nonetheless. Their claim that supporting autocracy to put an end to oppression is a double standard and makes you no better than the original oppressor, is like saying that it’s a double standard to support self-defense if you hate violence.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: ajomagurd on August 04, 2022, 05:46:47 pm
I'm one of the people that was in one of those screenshots. You want to debate still?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on August 04, 2022, 06:18:29 pm
If you want to debate, you are welcome to start a new topic here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/


Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest30 on August 06, 2022, 12:13:23 am
Debate with the Communist who always support Democracy no matter how flaws it's implementation result...

Date : Friday, 5th August 2022 Jakarta Time

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/3b852522565952b0ad351339c32db512/9f5c6d76a7f7a767-c4/s2048x3072/3e28392df84ace953160e0b5445598ae7c232e61.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 21 : 24 Jakarta Time

Explanation 1 :

I'm explaining the weakness of democracy. That is always promoting the interest of majorities even though their will is violating the rules of law.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/04845c53587fc576c47c3edee454febc/9f5c6d76a7f7a767-59/s2048x3072/f07ff6204bd3579896d1032b17c0b573d524b073.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 21 : 37 Jakarta Time

Explanation 2 :

He answered that socialist has no anything to do with autocratic systems, which explicitly explain his flaws about communism too alongside the democracy.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ee158bdcd4ee1d3af21fcab288a322d4/9f5c6d76a7f7a767-f0/s2048x3072/411bb9e3a47eb12ff0eaa8ffa5324f884da6e3d0.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 21 : 42 Jakarta Time

Explanation 3 :

I explained to him that I disagreed with the communism

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ea6fd326ca2c819d68a99fec0dd6bed5/9f5c6d76a7f7a767-36/s2048x3072/e45e4d9e0dc0cce9256a86a39780506ed2ef20e7.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 21 : 42 Jakarta Time

Explanation 4 :

I'm showing again the example of the flaws of democracy. showing how the Westerners keep harming the world's environment today and keep ignoring the sufferings of the rest of the world because of their aggressive colonialism and diplomatic exploitation until today. And I'm declared that I'm Sukarnoist  who disagree with communism.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/fa6fc881812919047bed4a4ad38edb2e/ab08a1e3339c93e7-7b/s2048x3072/005929b4fbd59c69f19f54011b15354a3dc461dd.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 21 : 49 Jakarta Time

Explanation 5 :

I threaten to expose that group's conversation to public. And showed to them that I'm already informing with sources about the secret pact between Soviet and Israel to help each other, but got timed out by the admin before... And he explained that Western oppression keep happening because the majority of Westerners don't have sufficient money to replace the commodities which product of export labour. It means democracy even cannot solve the Western's oppressive behaviour. And he who debate to me proudly without guilt declared as Westerner.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/f50497e4b3160654c33314b5b39fad59/ab08a1e3339c93e7-75/s2048x3072/e628b3ac225ba51e2600a601f47be84784c6f06e.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 21 : 52 Jakarta Time

Explanation 6 :

I'm saying that working class of the West keep the Western oppression and domination happening until today to him. And I ridiculed him with asking that where is the power of the dictatorial proletariat...

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/9f441d43e9333b4a6b06c8ed2f1a33b7/ab08a1e3339c93e7-a4/s2048x3072/9a53e49a196e905d8086094cf676bdffe8f71a38.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 22 : 00 Jakarta Time

Explanation 7 :

I'm explaining that democracy keep allowing the majority ignoring the oppressive result of economic progress. That is exploiting the another communities's resources forcibly if the resources of the economically progressive nations inadequate. The matter about democracy is everything allowed if the majority wants it.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/243ef30c6347aea93a78b7ef26dbbed4/ab08a1e3339c93e7-24/s2048x3072/2164528e0bd18b3b780b8ecc9b2b7a43c6ed3126.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 22 : 05 Jakarta Time

Explanation 8 :

He keep talking that it's not democracy who cause the Western oppression happened. Even he pretending that there's no democracy on the West. Although the West recorded today as the most democratic nations on this world.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/20c4a2070f684e124ce9455f29494dfb/ab08a1e3339c93e7-67/s2048x3072/58c9904a946b128963c932b365e165af0698cac1.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 22 : 05 Jakarta Time

Explanation 9 :

I'm explaining again that the West still oppress the innocent non-Western nations even though they are already implement the democracy. Like invading Iraq which led by Saddam Hussein, defeat and bring Libya which led by Muammar Kaddafi, into conflict, French indirect modern colonization of "Africa" nations (Frenchafrique), and invasion of Afghanistan.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/26fe36acca2ebde3beeed7897e3bcaad/258a168f3d6372fa-93/s2048x3072/aff537b3d4c68228bd225fbe981a278460a47500.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 22 : 10 Jakarta Time

Explanation 10 :

He implicitly explain the weakness of democracy from the argument which he said before. Even the majority cannot control the leader's power when he/she did something oppressive to another communities.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/bce96cd91aefd1d9269ace25d371224b/258a168f3d6372fa-1d/s2048x3072/253b8464828378ac806d500eb5eb63a5d31ae6f9.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 22 : 12 Jakarta Time

Explanation 11 :

I'm also exposed the communist female unterfrau who had Discord account named "Pickaxe and Rifle" who also joined on that inferior communist Discord group

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/78111e8ff975103b60e611c68fabe096/258a168f3d6372fa-04/s2048x3072/75b6d1178659c37b7b7b1a2846e9df0d0b0e00cf.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 22 : 16 Jakarta Time

Explanation 12 :

He keep denying that borgeoisation is not result of democracy, even though they are result of capitalism economic system and democratic liberalism way of life. And he considered the democracy during the Eastern European nations became communist "were implemented the real democracy". Even though the Soviet-bloc were not seriously to defeat the colonialism and liberalism, I'm already said about that to him on the previous conversation before...

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ec3dadeb6c9d0e59837d45e56e94efd4/c1406f8406d23bd9-5f/s2048x3072/e5f7b61190462fb3ace687cac3493e1e334aaea0.jpg)

Photographed on Friday, 5th August 2022, 22 : 37 Jakarta Time

Explanation 13 :

Until the end of conversation, he still denied again and again that democracy was the problem and borgeois people are the result of democracy way of life. So I can consider the flaws of democracy and Communist Marxist Socialism is not less evil than the liberal relativist colonialist

Photographed Information of Discord server "Marxist-Leninist Internationale"

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/51875aaa9bc521a53d46e934c2a5224a/5e995e273fc9caad-5e/s2048x3072/b61cd31bd32d8d8372f89a3aabb26bb26285ca41.jpg)

Photographed on Saturday, 6th August 2022, 12 : 06 Jakarta Time

The people whom I debate, named DarthLeninus#5001

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/2a33873a52be5d4c1c5811e006b747bc/5f247dad7ffc6a2b-f3/s640x960/e606ed0dca00fdfdaf1c1999ccf7297b1594cb58.jpg)

Photographed on Saturday, 6th August 2022, 12 : 06 Jakarta Time

Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest30 on August 18, 2022, 09:57:40 am
Another Example of Debate on Democracy on Discord Group "Republic of Jayford"

Date :

Session 1 : Sunday, 14 August 2022, from 23 : 14 until 23 : 46 Jakarta Time

Session 2 : Monday, 15 August 2022, from 00 : 07 until 01 : 17 Jakarta Time


See this photographed Discord group's conversation below :

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/09ef155d00508ec94f118aae595431c7/0cfc9e9c784aa6a1-e6/s1280x1920/c1918e2df5151ef86c24808d72feef3092446cd8.jpg)

Explanation 1 :

He complained about the result of dictatorship which only satisfy the leader and his co-workers and terrorized people. Including the Hitler's Germany which terrorized Europe. But He not complained every single time about the colonialism which suffered all of the "colored" people by the "white" people's nations of democracy

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/83098b3d413832bc2e53dddc556652c9/0cfc9e9c784aa6a1-6d/s1280x1920/82f48fdf2ddd1113a9e46b2e8250b8814c8fe2a7.jpg)

Explanation 2 :

He said that everybody wanted to rule the world. Of course I replied to him that forbid the liberals and the colonialist to rule the world was a good thing.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/2a2f68892a466232ca65cadcc7723e39/0cfc9e9c784aa6a1-74/s1280x1920/8a934cac90c0721a8e357b9c430b26eb84533041.jpg)

Explanation 3 :

I showed to him that discuss with the government was the best way to solve problem on non-democratic nations rather than merely did a revolt and protest. But he begin to answered my knowledge argument with only judging

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/b43d88db54df348bd875aba5a2911957/0cfc9e9c784aa6a1-ff/s1280x1920/053842903a963ca38e1fde6bafe5bfde49ddece9.jpg)

Explanation 4 :

I'm said that the mass death tragedy for defeat the oppressors and sacrifice for the anti-colonialism's national ideal were not a bad thing to him.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/b23d557e0b7367aef79c7ff51acde97f/0cfc9e9c784aa6a1-13/s1280x1920/b570ff547bde492e46a96233ca57a07c55c98a3d.jpg)

Explanation 5 :

And he considered me as "Neo Nazi" only because I don't wanted to live side by side with the people with different opinions. Because I'm said that I don't want to live with the liberals and colonialist mindset... Since when the "Neo-Nazis" didn't like colonialism...

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/853933f588f26610528b624efc017c7b/0cfc9e9c784aa6a1-2c/s1280x1920/7426998acf64b79812d0b07738e11de7b5640c91.jpg)

Explanation 6 :

I'm said to him that even though "South Korea" was developed without oppressing other nation. They actually were developed by the assistance from the United States which resulting the development with threatening their neighbors like Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) .

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/3a45fe283412a7bcd1ba451953717530/0cfc9e9c784aa6a1-bf/s1280x1920/5a595ca93c2d33f2a2a6e625dd0a664f277a2d37.jpg)

Explanation 7 :

I'm explained to him that with the authoritarian government, the problem of liberalism, discriminative and colonialist mindset of the people will easily controlled and hopefully will removed.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/a08649e72513ac3963a742807eeaec40/0cfc9e9c784aa6a1-60/s1280x1920/1f862c4c1d9a08813e3aefbc2c4df65096e0aac5.jpg)

Explanation 8 :

I'm explained to him that liberalization of Nusantara resulting economic unfair distribution and forced resources's exploitation by the foreign nations (West and China) which resulting unfair trade between Nusantara and the Western powers and China, the nations which commited most largest resources exploitation to our homeland.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/3529d59bde0211cd8395e2edef9ec15c/0cfc9e9c784aa6a1-93/s1280x1920/8106d3ce34e848678b3db09eb8849df5786f2e3a.jpg)

Explanation 9 :

He still complained about the decisive action to removed the people who had contrary beliefs and worldview to the state, if the state were non-democratic authoritarian. And he not answering my knowledge arguments with facts again and again. I'm already explained to him that the non-democratic approach was the only effective way to solve the oppression of society


Discord account named G.S. Sundang was a Malaysian Western man who debated me
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on August 18, 2022, 01:09:26 pm
"I showed to him that discuss with the government was the best way to solve problem on non-democratic nations"

Actually the best response to disagreement with an autocratic government is emigration.

"He still complained about the decisive action to removed the people who had contrary beliefs and worldview to the state, if the state were non-democratic authoritarian."

Yes, because you forgot to mention that people should be allowed to emigrate.

(Also, we are opposed to authoritarianism. People's private lives are of no concern to the state.)
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest30 on August 18, 2022, 06:25:36 pm
@90sRetroFan

Quote
Actually the best response to disagreement with an autocratic government is emigration.

This argument can be used back by the democrats to attack us when we complain the nation's democracy and dissatisfaction to it.

Quote
(Also, we are opposed to authoritarianism. People's private lives are of no concern to the state.)

If the people's private live tend to resulting reproduction without permit from the state, camouflaging secret illegal political movements, and spread their private's life to public whether through electronic tools like social media or photos, but the values is contrary to the national ideals. Then who will make them put in order?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on August 18, 2022, 07:42:48 pm
"This argument can be used back by the democrats to attack us when we complain the nation's democracy and dissatisfaction to it."

No, don't you get it? It is democracy which discourages emigration by offering dissatisfied people a chance to change the government by voting in the next election, thus persuading them to stay indefinitely! It is democracy which leads to two sides with opposing ideas perpetually living in the same country because each side thinks it can get its way in a few years' time by gaining majority support and thus forcing the other side in the minority to go along with it! It is democracy which leads to people in the minority ultimately paying decades of taxes to support policies they disagree with, because they think next time they can get the other side to pay taxes to support their own policies (which the other side disagrees with)!

Compare it with a business. If there is only one boss and everyone else is an employee, then all dissatisfied employees can simply quit. But if instead everyone is a shareholder, then the dissatisfied shareholders buy more and form coalitions until they are in control of the business, and then the remainder who have lost control now do the same thing (buy even more and form new coalitions) to try to get control back, and so on. It is obvious that the point of shareholding is to get the dissatisfied to invest further. It is the same with democracy.

"If the people's private live tend to resulting reproduction"

Then it is not private.

"camouflaging secret illegal political movements"

State-encouraged activities can also camouflage this.

"spread their private's life to public whether through electronic tools like social media or photos, but the values is contrary to the national ideals."

The two should be openly compared side by side. Suppression only proves the national ideals feel threatened.

The reason why so many people out there erroneously conflate democracy with free speech etc. is because of attitudes like yours: wanting to combine autocracy with censorship. We are here to break this false link, and the way to do so is to show that we as autocracy supporters defend free speech at the same time.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: NSFAN on August 18, 2022, 07:51:06 pm
Only a foolish autocrat would not support free-speech:
(https://img.ifunny.co/images/175833dcb8ca420f1881dad0e8a5530a1fd7b871001832cf6567e811d7642d8f_1.jpg)

However, only fools in general believe that there are no consequences associated with saying whatever one pleases and whenever one pleases. Every action in life has consequences associated with it.

We did not create this world and make it so, Yahweh did!
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on August 19, 2022, 03:26:12 pm
https://vdare.com/posts/npr-ipsos-poll-majority-believes-the-invasion-at-the-southwest-border-is-an-invasion

Quote
Fifty-three percent believe it is true or somewhat true that illegal aliens are invading the country. The breakdown: 76 percent of Republicans and 41 percent of Democrats, and 47 percent of Independents.

(https://vdare.com/public_upload/publication/featured_image/58254/VDARE-americans-polled-invasion.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/srSJzRW.png)

Why do leftists still support democracy?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest30 on August 21, 2022, 08:12:09 am
Source : https://www.bnnvara.nl/joop/artikelen/schokkend-maar-zes-procent-van-nederlanders-denk-dat-kolonialisme-slecht-was

The article post written on 07th July 2021

Quote
Dutch colonial language :

In een moedige zet bood Femke Halsema kortgeleden een algemeen excuses aan voor Amsterdams voorname rol in de slavernij. Maar wat hebben excuses voor zin als op dit moment de helft van het land vindt dat kolonialisme iets is om trots op te zijn? En 94 procent het niet wil bestempelen als iets negatiefs?

Quote
English colonial language :

In a brave move, Femke Halsema recently offered a general apology for Amsterdam's prominent role in slavery. But what's the point of apologies if right now half the country thinks colonialism is something to be proud of? And 94 percent don't want to label it as something negative?

(https://joop-bnnvara.cdn.prepr.io/w_1250/s3-joop-bnnvara/18ef2a56-5ec8-4336-8a9c-ae232ff08cfa.jpg)

If we allowed democratic thinking work, then based on the polls graphic result  above. We allow that the majority of people to see the European colonialism as a good thing. Even though they not directly saw the oppression, mass forced work, mass murder, and unfair treatment between the colonizers and the colonized people by their ancestors. And their government possibly can be justified not to accountable for their colonial past, because the majority was not feel it as a problem and a bad thing.

The 7 European nations above, only Germany whose people are mostly see their nation's colonial past were bad rather than who proud of it. The others are still mostly proud and see their nation's colonialism was a good thing. And the Netherlanders are the worst thing we ever see on how they see their nation's colonialism in the past...

If the majority of Europeans not to be forced to condemn colonialism. In the future they will see the colonialism as a good thing, and possibly they will make more destabilization and oppression to the rest of the world again for the second time. Today's NATO army's and economic oppression just a beginning.

This make me remembering this event and want it to be happen again.

(https://marketgarden.com/2010/UK/pics/map-inval-1940.jpg)

Source : https://maken.wikiwijs.nl/74014/German_occupation_of_The_Netherlands

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/44/cc/55/44cc55d615b2ce0a99042674aa4f0e3b.png)

Source : https://id.pinterest.com/pin/578994095819021661/

The vaterland's troop's invasion of Netherlands map
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: NSFAN on August 21, 2022, 01:49:38 pm
You know what has always fascinated me about the Judeo-Masonic democracy model is the fact that all western countries military's are authoritarian, whilst the public and it's institutions are democracies. In other-words, authoritarianism is used to protect democracy in western countries. Likewise in the Judeo-Masonic model, the Freemasonic Supreme Council members are not elected by Freemasons but appointed, only in the lower level lodges of freemasonry is democracy used. Only authoritarian systems can protect democracy? How is this not hypocrisy by western democracy worshipers? 
Title: Re: Duginism
Post by: NSFAN on August 21, 2022, 02:19:19 pm
How Belarusians are fighting Putin in their country and in Ukraine | Franak Viacorka
Quote
"If Ukraine fails, there will not be a chance for democracy in Belarus."

Between 500 and 2000 Belarusians have joined Ukrainian battalions, says Svetlana Tsihanouskaya's senior advisor Franak Viacorka, adding Belarus is occupied by Russians now, like France during World War II.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdGuajiHPFc

In the western democratic mind only autocrats can be tyrants and puppets, even with this democratically elected tyrant and puppet staring them right in the face:
(https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/trump16.jpg?quality=85&w=594)

My point above is further proven by this article:
Trump's tyranny proved America isn't immune to authoritarianism. But we can survive it.
Quote
One way to combat tyrants is by limiting their power over people through reading.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-tyranny-proved-america-isn-t-immune-authoritarianism-we-ncna1252372

The double-think in westerners is increasingly hypocritical, their brain's are truly broken...

Not all dictators and authoritarians are tyrants, but democracy is always a tyranny of a majority.

See also:
Why Socrates Hated Democracy 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLJBzhcSWTk
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest30 on August 22, 2022, 01:23:15 am
@NSFAN

Quote
"...Only authoritarian systems can protect democracy? How is this not hypocrisy by western democracy worshipers?"

That is how liberalism works. Protect the people how bad they are, give them freedom of expression even though it oppressing people, as long as not harming the society's security, they allowed to live. The government only engaged when the people's physical condition and their democracy are threatened.

Like how Western Greece treated their conquered anti-Western Persian people
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on August 22, 2022, 08:18:37 pm
Someone else understands (0:48-1:15) that democracy was only ever meant for the demos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGaoLuRQbic

Suffragism (ie. support for those not originally intended to be part of the demos to be allowed to vote) is not democracy, but anti-democracy. This is why it is not a contradiction for us to ideologically prefer autocracy but to pragmatically support winning elections via Demographic Blueshift for now.

When we see rightists react to suffragism by claiming that post-suffragism elections are invalid, it is inaccurate to accuse them of being anti-democracy. They are the ones wanting to restore elections to being democratic elections as opposed to suffragist elections. They are the democrats. We are the anti-democrats. And this is what makes us morally superior and them morally inferior.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: guest30 on August 30, 2022, 02:24:32 am
Debate with the so-called "leftist" people on Discord group named "Political Centre"

Date photographed :

Session 1 : Monday, 29th August 2022, 12 : 16 until 12 : 19 Jakarta Time

Session 2 : Tuesday, 30th August 2022, 11 : 58 Jakarta Time

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/8f770e72b310d252b5cb46d31cba980f/55f10c708a9fe002-fc/s2048x3072/d1e4f0c34c67d59454837b92379163451a91db29.jpg)

Explanation 1 :

He said to me that imagine we had a good dictator and his lackeys governed a more or less 75 millions people. There are simply less evil people needed to run dictatorship rather than democracy and republic. And there's no guaranteeing the policies of a country under one person.

I answered him that even the democracy which run by the millions of people still not yet stop their government's oppressive policies which destroying the environment outside their nation. It means the democracy and the people failed to stop and prevent such unethical attitude. Or they don't care about the government's oppressive policies to the outside the nation because they not bothered with it. So they ignore it.


(https://64.media.tumblr.com/290dbb624ec24aa076d22ac29d6c8a38/55f10c708a9fe002-0a/s2048x3072/258cd3cccfa9acddde5d5a16802750e6159984ce.jpg)

Explanation 2 :

I said that the modern Germany were responsible for invasion of innocent Afghanistan people (During 2001 until 2021) and it happened during democracy system were used by German's government officials to govern their people. And he said with satirical attempt to insult dictatorship with sentence which explained that 1930s Germany were "famously bastion of a great rule".

And I answered to him that it was indeed a great rule, even the European colonial powers were severely damaged which culminating in anti-colonial movements across the world.

And he only answered again with satirical sentences not with knowledge arguments. With saying that even the dictatorship were "famously worked well in USSR


(https://64.media.tumblr.com/fc852ff38e6feb44cb6000aed95216ad/55f10c708a9fe002-44/s2048x3072/facac60a7a7b71d747f0a4b0f9a56c19b01289c6.jpg)

Explanation 3 :

He only answered my knowledge arguments with another sarcastic and satiristic sentences again and again.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/bd30e0fec2be97fdb778ca401b87a842/85e3089460aea922-95/s2048x3072/caf3b1067f3053b52f1b878c0217a5000ae00f1b.jpg)

Explanation 4 :

I'm explained again to him today that the democracy will allow the majority of people's will even though it's oppressive. I'm showing him an example of survey polls which already did on Wednesday, 11th March 2020, which shows that 32 percents of British people still proud of their ancestors's colonialism in the past which outnumbered only 19 percents of British people who consider that the colonialism was wrong and shameful. And I said to him that if we use how the policies were made through democracy, then we will justify the people's proud feelings on seeing their ancestor's colonial past. Because the majority still agree with it.

And until now there's no response anymore from him even though he is online on Discord now... It means he not want to answer and discuss anymore. And he can be predicted that he not want to acknowledge the truth about the flaws of democracy.


Discord group "Political Centre"

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/4bd7ae097e400a4fa03880ab89213687/7e44fe8e9b9918b0-5e/s2048x3072/750a5a93a76da08e83c03c9e87f6bf95b5e5698b.jpg)

The Discord profile of the opponents :

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/d49bbe0452e9ed193de13b6d1f4790ab/9e31050feaa5f1c0-f6/s2048x3072/193da449430451aa1c4b07b51e86b2387775fb4b.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/51fcff0ec03caf092ed5eb303505e492/9e31050feaa5f1c0-54/s2048x3072/70bdb182d153608dfd50ee15544d6e0b07ce360c.jpg)
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on September 04, 2022, 06:14:55 pm
This enemy article notes that Madison Grant understood how democracy was designed to work (and indeed did work so long as voting was limited to the demos):

https://www.amren.com/news/2022/09/madison-grant-conquest-of-a-continent/

Quote
When the people, rather than their rulers, had a chance to speak, their instincts were healthy. Grant recounts with satisfaction an 1879 California ballot to limit Chinese immigration, in which the vote was 154,638 to 833. “There have been few issues in American history carried by a more nearly unanimous vote,” he adds.

Essentially, democracy is a statistical device to minimize the probability of anti-tribalist decisionmaking. It is far easier for a monarch to decide to do what is ethical than for a majority of the demos to simultaneously decide to do so.

Note furthermore what kind of bloodlines Grant preferred to populate the demos to produce the kind of democracy he wants:

Quote
In his view, wealth and cultivation are always signs of better stock.
...
he is surprisingly unworried about the criminals who were transported to the colonies in the early days.
...
He also likes the rebellious, freebooting quality of early settlers.
...
he admires their pioneering, Indian-fighting spirit. As yet more rebels and dissenters arrived, they headed further west, opening the country.

What decisions are likely to be made by the majority opinion of voters of bloodlines like these? Now you know how democracy was intended by Westerners to work.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: rp on September 04, 2022, 06:32:26 pm
"he is surprisingly unworried about the criminals who were transported to the colonies in the early days."
It's ok for criminals to be "white".
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: NSFAN on September 09, 2022, 12:04:01 pm
But who would know enough about you to want to elect you to a political office if you're not famous? Is fame not a prerequisite for democracy?

Aiming for a life of success and fame is a 'hollow ambition' | Gabriel Byrne
Quote
"The pursuit of fame in and of itself is a hollow ambition, and success doesn’t hang around too long."

Striving for the glamorous life of fame and Hollywood is a ‘hollow’ ambition, actor Gabriel Byrne says while reflecting on his career #TimesRadio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuD_Bky_0U0
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on September 14, 2022, 09:44:41 pm
Still supporting democracy, leftists?

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/14/swedens-pm-concedes-election-to-right-wing-bloc-and-will-resign-tomorrow

Quote
The election marks a watershed in Swedish politics with the anti-immigration Sweden Democrats, shunned by all the major parties when they first entered parliament in 2010, on the threshold of gaining influence over government policy.

If you still don't see that this type of result is what democracy was designed to deliver, let's come back after the elections in Italy and see if you get it by then.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: antihellenistic on September 14, 2022, 11:06:58 pm
The false-leftist today want democracy and liberalism because it prevent more intolerant people whose their action resulting more wars, unrest, and bloodsheds. So democracy will control the people from doing that thing. What about that?

Today's liberalism from 2000s until today resulting less-wars than the Cold War bipolar politics era for example
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: antihellenistic on September 14, 2022, 11:12:44 pm
Quote
Note furthermore what kind of bloodlines Grant preferred to populate the demos to produce the kind of democracy he wants:

Quote
In his view, wealth and cultivation are always signs of better stock.
...
he is surprisingly unworried about the criminals who were transported to the colonies in the early days.
...
He also likes the rebellious, freebooting quality of early settlers.
...
he admires their pioneering, Indian-fighting spirit. As yet more rebels and dissenters arrived, they headed further west, opening the country.

If Madison Grant promoting such people's bloodlines. Then why the "whites" in America whose bloodlines are like that considered as "civilized"? Even the today's world consider the Europe and America are civilized and less-corrupt nations.

And liberalism in Europe and America resulting less-corrupt nations on it. What about that?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on September 14, 2022, 11:53:28 pm
"why the "whites" in America whose bloodlines are like that considered as "civilized"?"

In the Western perspective, "civilized' means Homo Hubris:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/homo-hubris/

or as our enemy Duchesne likes to say, Faustian:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/homo-hubris/msg14444/#msg14444

Grant promotes Homo-Hubris/Faustian-compatible bloodlines.

We are here to change the definition of "civilized" to mean Ahimsa-adherent. Of course a civilized person by our definition will not be popular, because most people initiate violence but do not want to face retaliatory violence. Therefore democracy is opposed to our definition of civilization.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on September 25, 2022, 06:21:43 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/meloni-casts-ballot-exit-polls-214844622.html

Quote
STORY: A right-wing alliance led by Giorgia Meloni's Brothers of Italy party looks set to win a clear majority in the next parliament, exit polls said on Sunday (September 25) after voting ended in an Italian national election.

An exit poll for Italy's SKY said the bloc of conservative parties, that also includes Matteo Salvini's League and Silvio Berlusconi's Forza Italia party, won over 40%, enough to guarantee control of both houses of parliament.

From the comments:

Quote
If one believes in true democracy, people of Italy have the right to choose whomever they like, as their leader, notwithstanding the opinion of the others.

Exactly. This is why no leftist should believe in democracy.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on October 10, 2022, 06:12:51 pm
Still supporting democracy, leftists?

https://rmx.news/article/80-of-french-people-believe-anti-white-racism-exists/

Quote
80% of French people believe anti-White racism exists
...
Only 19 percent of French people said “no” to the question, while 1 percent could not decide.
...
The CSA survey also broke down answers based on gender, and there was no clear difference between male and females in this regard, with 82 percent of men saying anti-White racism exists and 79 percent of females. The “yes” vote also won in nearly all age groups; however, those between 50 and 64 were most likely to say “yes” to the question (90 percent). The only age group where “yes” did not win was 18 to 24, where 51 percent said anti-White racism did not exist.

The polling did show political differences between respondents, with 100 percent of voters of the Reconquest party saying anti-White racism existed in France, while for the National Rally, it was 92 percent, and in the Republicans party, it was 89 percent.

Interestingly, supporters of the Renassance party of French President Emmanuel Macron, known for his support of liberal immigration policies, also showed that 83 percent believe anti-White racism exists, while in the left-wing La France Insoumise, only 39 percent agreed with this assertion.

For reference:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/old-content/msg6514/#msg6514
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on October 13, 2022, 04:07:30 pm
Leftists are understanding that democracy is the problem, but only subconsciously:

https://rmx.news/germany/the-left-calls-for-a-ban-on-germanys-afd-party-just-as-the-party-surges-in-popularity/

Quote
Members of the Social Democrats (SPD) and the Left party (Die Linke) are calling for a ban on the conservative Alternative for Germany (AfD) party just as it surges in the polls, raising fears that Germany, which prides itself on being democratic, will attempt to completely ban one of the largest parties in the country.
...
The powerful Office for the Protection of the Constitution domestic intelligence agency has deemed AfD a “suspected threat” to democracy

No, AfD is a consequence of democracy. If you want the AfD banned, you are anti-democracy, which is what you should proudly be. Just like Hitler was.

Quote
The idea that banning a party to save democracy is widespread in Germany’s left-wing circles

This is why we call them the False Left:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/western-democracy/msg3362/#msg3362

Continuing:

Quote
however, AfD has argued that nobody in the party has ever advocated anti-democratic principles. In fact, there is evidence the party wants to strengthen it by introducing Swiss-style citizen referendums, which would allow citizens to vote on specific issues

Now think carefully. Why would AfD do this? Answer: because AfD is confident that results will line up with the policies it wants. Is AfD mistaken? Probably not!

Why do you think Hitler hated Switzerland?

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/news/united-nations/msg15954/#msg15954
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on October 21, 2022, 08:36:42 pm
A leftist mayor openly states that democracy impedes ethical decisionmaking:

https://rmx.news/article/mayor-pushes-great-replacement-project-in-rural-france-despite-citizen-protests-refuses-to-hold-citizen-referendum-on-accepting-migrant-families/

Quote
A project designed to move 70 migrants and their families to the small rural French town of Callac is being fought by local residents. Despite calls for a referendum on the issue, the mayor refuses to hold such a referendum, conceding he would lose the vote if it were to take place.

During rival protests on Sept. 17, Callac Mayor Jean-Yves Rolland stated that he would address the constituents of Callac with a letter, which was released on Oct. 14. He said the letter would bring “the official version of our project in the face of rumors and misinformation,” the Le Télégramme daily reports.

In the letter, the mayor rejected a referendum. The move comes after Sud Radio reported that one person at a meeting with the mayor, which included 12 other eyewitnesses, heard the mayor admit he would not hold a referendum because some 80 percent of residents are against the measure. He reportedly said: “I would lose it.”

Therefore it should be clear to all who care about ethics that it is democracy which must be scrapped:

Quote
In his letter, the mayor instead called for a “citizen governing body” to decide on the arrival of migrants.

“A citizen governance body is being created. This global project must be managed in complete transparency,” writes Rolland, arguing that “the new inhabitants are a chance for Callac, a small aging rural town,” with “many houses that remain empty” and “dozens of positions that remain to be filled.”

Democracy means listening to majority demos opinion like this:

Quote
protesters held up signs against the “African repopulation of our cities”

Mayor Rolland gets it. Why do so many leftists not yet get it?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 09, 2022, 02:38:45 pm
Still supporting democracy, leftists?

https://rmx.news/article/majority-of-germans-have-big-worry-about-huge-migrant-influx/

Quote
A new poll shows that despite Germany’s left-wing government pushing for more migrants, a majority of the public either rejects or strongly rejects higher levels of immigration.

Leftism should be about what is ethical, not what is popular with the demos.

Quote
The German government has made a number of proposals not only designed to increase migrant numbers but also to speed up the citizenship process and provide a massive amnesty to illegal immigrants. These are all moves that will only further drive more people to enter the country by any means necessary, including through the service of human smugglers.

The German government is also pushing Italy’s new conservative government to accept all boat migrants from the various NGO vessels operating off the Italian coast.

Why should a government like this not rule autocratically (and moreover prohibit all opposed to amnesty from reproducing)?

Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 15, 2022, 08:45:14 pm
This is the kind of result that democracy was designed to deliver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIgjB8_Tubk
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 16, 2022, 05:58:21 pm
https://rmx.news/france/two-thirds-of-french-want-stricter-immigration-policy-new-poll-shows/

Quote
Nearly seven out of ten French people believe that the state should adopt a stricter policy regarding the reception of migrants, according to a poll by the CSA institute for CNEWS published on Tuesday.
...
It is not the only poll showing the French opposed to mass immigration, with past polls consistently showing the vast majority of French want a halt to immigration.

Meanwhile:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/climate-refugees/msg16453/#msg16453

So do you really think democracy is the way to get climate refugees the help they need?
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 18, 2022, 07:58:50 pm
https://us.yahoo.com/news/rising-tide-of-immigration-to-europe-pushing-continents-politics-to-the-right-experts-say-004400696.html

Quote
“Europe is a very, very wealthy region. If we look at it globally, and particularly the EU, by the end of 2021, for example, less than 10% of the world’s refugees were living in the EU. So if we look at it globally, [taking in more refugees] is very much something that the EU could manage effectively and humanely.”

This is the straightforward truth. If government simply operated according to this accurate information, there would be no problems. Now enter democracy to mess everything up:

Quote
However, Anna Knoll, head of migration and mobility at the European Centre for Development Policy Management, is concerned that humanitarian efforts are giving life to right-wing movements across the continent.

“You see countries like Sweden or Italy flipping more to the right side of the political spectrum,” Knoll told Yahoo News. “I think states are realizing they cannot afford having more refugees situated there or more irregular migrants coming in, because it does potentially push the voters more to the right. Obviously we try to balance this — we have principles, we have values and we are also a sanctuary for refugees. But we cannot allow everyone in.”

You could allow everyone in by rejecting democracy. Why does democracy matter more than helping refugees? More fundamentally, why should unethical opinions (no matter how popular) be listened to at all?

Quote
“If everything comes together — more migrants, super-high energy prices, inflation hitting the roof — at some point I wonder how much the system can take before people say, ‘No, we don’t want this.’”

If they don't want this, they are also free to emigrate! That is what we should be telling them instead of capitulating to them! But False Leftists will never reach this obvious conclusion so long as they refuse to question democracy itself.
Title: Re: Western Democracy
Post by: 90sRetroFan on November 22, 2022, 09:28:25 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-majority-iranians-want-regime-175729420.html

Quote
Study: Majority of Iranians want regime change as country's protests continue to grow

As protests against the Islamic regime in Iran continue, a new study by the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change found 84% of Iranians support regime change.

See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/news/iran/msg16485/#msg16485

This is how inferior the majority of Iranians are. Let's use this opportunity to get Iran's population back down to the pre-colonial population:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Iran_Population_%281880-2016%29.jpg)

Quote
Over three-fourths polled consider religion unimportant in their lives, and they prefer a more secular life than the current theocratic one.

They are free to emigrate.