Author Topic: Did Civilization Begin in India?  (Read 362 times)

guest78

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Did Civilization Begin in India?
« on: July 01, 2022, 02:52:43 pm »
Did Civilization Begin in India?
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Mainstream academia says that Mesopotamia was the cradle of civilization. But did you know that there are some who argue that this is a false history, and that it was in South Asia that the world’s first urban society appeared? In this video, Dr. Miano takes a deep look into the ideas presented by Hindu teacher David Frawley, who argues that the world’s greatest ancient societies are cultural descendants of India. Are his claims in keeping with the facts?

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guest78

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The Indus Script DeMystified: Origins, Character and Disappearance
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Dr. Jonathan Mark Kenoyer delivers the 23rd Gulestan and Rustom Billimoria Endowment Lecture at the Asiatic Society of Mumbai, Dec. 14, 2020. A deep exploration of the Indus script and its evolution in the context of Indus civilization and other neighbouring Bronze Age cultures and their writing systems. Profusely illustrated, and including the latest research by leading scholars.


Harappa.com: The Ancient Indus Civilization
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAx99HH1X8WTJc1XDGOW__g

guest78

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This Mysterious Civilization Predates the Sumerians & Egyptians - Harappan Civilization
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With great symbols representing majesty and power, mythical gods and pharaohs, and great technological inventions that changed the world, we are used to seeing Egypt and Sumer as the oldest and most advanced civilizations in history. However, recent scientific research indicates that a mysterious ancient civilization located between Pakistan and India predates these two incredible cultures. Indeed, researchers believe that this civilization, known as the Harappan civilization or the Indus Valley civilization, is around 8,000 years old, which means that it's even older than the great Sumerian civilization. Its most famous city, Mohenjo-Daro, is a clear example of a well-established and highly advanced urban center, which includes sewage systems, roads, well-organized houses, agriculture, and artwork, among other things. However, even with all the information that researchers already have about these ancient people, the Harappan civilization also remains one of the most mysterious in history: Its script has not yet been deciphered, its urban planning and irrigation systems were more advanced even than most cities in modern India, and the civilization suddenly disappeared for reasons that are still not entirely clear. How did the Harappan civilization achieve such a degree of cultural and technological development? What was their secret? Did someone help them, or were they the descendants of an even older advanced civilization? And what is the mystery surrounding its sudden disappearance?


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True masters of farming...

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Indus Valley Civilisation:

The Indus Valley Civilisation[1] (IVC), also known as the Indus Civilisation or the Harappan Civilisation was a Bronze Age civilisation in the northwestern regions of South Asia, lasting from 3300 BCE to 1300 BCE, and in its mature form 2600 BCE to 1900 BCE.[2][a] Together with ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, it was one of three early civilisations of the Near East and South Asia, and of the three, the most widespread. Its sites spanned an area from much of Pakistan, to northeast Afghanistan, and northwestern India.[3] The civilisation flourished both in the alluvial plain of the Indus River, which flows through the length of Pakistan, and along a system of perennial monsoon-fed rivers that once coursed in the vicinity of the Ghaggar-Hakra, a seasonal river in northwest India and eastern Pakistan.[2][4]

The term Harappan is sometimes applied to the Indus civilisation after its type site Harappa, the first to be excavated early in the 20th century in what was then the Punjab province of British India and is now Punjab, Pakistan.[5][c] The discovery of Harappa and soon afterwards Mohenjo-daro was the culmination of work that had begun after the founding of the Archaeological Survey of India in the British Raj in 1861.[6] There were earlier and later cultures called Early Harappan and Late Harappan in the same area. The early Harappan cultures were populated from Neolithic cultures, the earliest and best-known of which is Mehrgarh, in Balochistan, Pakistan.[7][8] Harappan civilisation is sometimes called Mature Harappan to distinguish it from the earlier cultures.

The cities of the ancient Indus were noted for their urban planning, baked brick houses, elaborate drainage systems, water supply systems, clusters of large non-residential buildings, and techniques of handicraft and metallurgy.[d] Mohenjo-daro and Harappa very likely grew to contain between 30,000 and 60,000 individuals,[10] and the civilisation may have contained between one and five million individuals during its florescence.[11] A gradual drying of the region during the 3rd millennium BCE may have been the initial stimulus for its urbanisation. Eventually it also reduced the water supply enough to cause the civilisation's demise and to disperse its population to the east.[e]

Although over a thousand Mature Harappan sites have been reported and nearly a hundred excavated,[12][f][14][15] there are five major urban centres:[16][g] (a) Mohenjo-daro in the lower Indus Valley (declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1980 as "Archaeological Ruins at Mohenjodaro"), (b) Harappa in the western Punjab region, (c) Ganeriwala in the Cholistan Desert, (d) Dholavira in western Gujarat (declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2021 as "Dholavira: A Harappan City"), and (e) Rakhigarhi in Haryana.[17][h]

The Harappan language is not directly attested, and its affiliation uncertain as the Indus script has remained undeciphered.[18] A relationship with the Dravidian or Elamo-Dravidian language family is favoured by a section of scholars.[19][20]
Entire article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilisation






SirGalahad

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2023, 04:43:35 pm »
@90sRetroFan What do you think was the language of the original agriculturalists who arrived in India? I was under the assumption that the Harappans likely ended up dropping their original language for a local Dravidian language, which although originally spoken by Indian hunter-gatherers, subsequently became the main language of the Indus Valley Civilization that the Harappans founded.

However, there’s also the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis for the origin of the Dravidian languages:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elamo-Dravidian_languages

which claims that the Dravidian languages came from the migrating agriculturalists. I did not know that there was a Dravidian language spoken all the way in Pakistan (Brahui), which lends some credence to the theory, although Brahui could easily just be from a more recent migration from the south, TO Pakistan. To support this and similar hypotheses, people have also pointed out that Indo-European and Dravidian languages aren’t the only two language families present. There’s also a single, almost extinct language isolate by the name of Nihali, which could theoretically be a candidate descended from the language(s) of the hunter-gatherers, as well as Vedda
« Last Edit: September 08, 2023, 05:05:52 pm by SirGalahad »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2023, 05:21:40 pm »
"@90sRetroFan What do you think was the language of the original agriculturalists who arrived in India?"

It remains a mystery:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_script#Theories_and_attempts_at_decipherment

I am willing to wait for further deciphering developments before theorizing.

rp

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2023, 07:29:06 pm »
I previously noted that the Dravidian languages seem to be less Turanized (i.e. lack of gendered nouns). Earlier forms of Tamil lack gendered verbs, even. However, I cautioned against linguistic chauvinism, because it is inextricably tied to Eurocentric theories of a "Dravidian" race in the present-day context. Besides, Tamil itself is relatively recent linguistically (only 2500 years old), so it is possible that the Harappan language that it descends from has very little in common with it.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2023, 07:32:58 pm by rp »

rp

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2024, 06:09:19 pm »
I have expressed my share of pessimism toward India, but I must say, I feel that if there is a place where the Aryanist movement is centered, it must be India. This is because I feel that India is the only place that has continuously remained non-anthropocentric through the preservation of its culture, unlike most other places in the world. Thus, it has the potential to revive the Heliocentric Aryan civilization after the anthropocentric homo-hubris Western civilization has been destroyed. However, the collapse of the monarchy and the establishment of the democratic republic has made this an uphill battle. Additionally, the low-quality west-worshipping anthropocentric Untermensch part of the population must be dealt with to improve the demographic quality, which seems to be deteriorating rapidly due to overpopulation.

What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2024, 06:21:02 pm by rp »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2024, 04:21:42 pm »
"India is the only place that has continuously remained non-anthropocentric through the preservation of its culture, unlike most other places in the world."

My worry is that emigrating Indians often fail to export this attitude to their destination countries, so that even if India itself is able to maintain this attitude into the future, it will have trouble promoting it elsewhere.

The problem is that there is insufficient pride attached to being non-anthropocentric. It does not seem to be that they are opposed to displaying pride in general, but they seem to prefer to display pride in other aspects of India rather than this one.....

rp

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2024, 10:30:26 pm »
"My worry is that emigrating Indians often fail to export this attitude to their destination countries, so that even if India itself is able to maintain this attitude into the future, it will have trouble promoting it elsewhere."

This is due to the "non-proselytizing" nature of Hinduism. Of course, despite this, Hindu/Buddhist culture managed to influence the counterculture in Western countries (although the Westerners corrupted it with their hedonism). This encouraged Indians to pride themselves in their non-anthropocentric attitudes. Now, because the culture is thoroughly Western, the non-anthropocentrists rightly recognize their attitudes won't be warmly received by the masses, and hence do not bother priding themselves on it.

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2024, 06:18:16 pm »
India needs to create a kshatriya ruling class

rp

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2024, 05:41:41 pm »
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1747274307338969250
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ANI
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#WATCH | Gujarat: Remains of a 2800-year-old settlement found in PM Narendra Modi's village, Vadnagar.

https://twitter.com/GulagLobbyist/status/1747284248019812785
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PM गुलाग Yojanā Lobbyist
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> It's real guys.......
He was born on the samadhi of The Great Priest King , He is him.


rp

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2024, 10:44:15 pm »
Anyway, I think the "non-proselytizing" image of Hinduism has been thoroughly destroyed. Hindu nationalists want to make the world Hindu; although their reasoning for it is somewhat flawed (convert "Abrahamic monotheistic" lands back to "Pagan polytheism", ignoring the fact that Hinduism although polytheistic is not a "Pagan" (animist) religion, and also the fact that not all monotheism is Abrahamic). This is where the traditionalist Hindu could help provide better argumentation, as it seeks to restore not blind paganism but Hinduism throughout the world. It is unfortunately hampered by the caste system, but it can be reformed by incorporating new bloodlines into the system and eventually, done away with altogether by establishing a new Aryan racial ideal across castes.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2024, 01:46:19 pm »
""Pagan" (animist)"

It is possible to be animist without being pagan, if we count as fellow prisoners the beings recognized by animists. Most eventual Gnostics started out as anti-nature animists. It is the pro-nature animists who became pagans.

"the fact that not all monotheism is Abrahamic"

Historically, India's first contact with monotheism should have been with Zoroastrianism from Iran. That Hindutva types today would rather associate monotheism with Abraham is actually a reflection of their Westernized worldview.

rp

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Re: Did Civilization Begin in India?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2024, 12:17:47 am »
While many chessmasters today are Jews and Gentiles, it should be noted that chess is Aryan in origin: https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/zqw9wh/this_ancient_chess_board_was_excavated_from/?rdt=38408