True Left

@90sRetroFan

"This Chinese's so-called "economic cooperation" got complain almost every country who try to cooperate with them. Therefore there is a fraud from the lender after the terms agreement."

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If you cannot point out which terms of the agreement were violated, the complaint cannot be taken seriously. Dissatisfaction with the result of an agreement does not on its own imply fraud.

The nations who borrow the money and agree with the economic cooperation usually found a difficulty to pay back the loan

"Chinese "One Belt One Road"'s foreign economic policy seen by many nations as a "economic trap". So there is a scandal on that policy."

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If they did not like what was proposed, they should have declined getting involved to begin with. You cannot accept the proposal and then blame the proposer for proposing what you accepted!

Their complaint is, China can do whatever they want to them, if they cannot pay back or found difficulties on pay the loan

@90sRetroFan

China can only do what both sides agreed to in the contract. If they did not like this they had the option to not sign the contract in the first place. But to voluntarily sign the contract and then complain about it is ridiculous.
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And, we must see the reality, China hated by many nations because of their economic proposal to them which it's implementation is contrary to what the agreement proposed. Many cooperating nations consider China spreading "debt trap". Many news information said that thing. Even the Chinese people still hated by Nusantarans because their attitude, you never see one of them ever be a Nusantara's governmental figure or president. So, make an alliance with China just adding more conflict right now...

@90sRetroFan

"it's implementation is contrary to what the agreement proposed"

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If so, it should be easy to point out precisely which term in the agreement was violated.

For example, Angola agree to be funded and build an infrastructure with China's help. And China give loan to them. But Angola find difficulties when they pay back. And then, China's workers who work to build Angola's infrastructures show their real's identity, that is a soldiers who can also do the builder's work. So Angola people forced to dominated by China's people. And they begin to make an economic activity using China's currency, that is Renmimbi.

That also happen to my nation. We find difficulties to pay the debt given by China. So they begin to send many immigrant workers to work on our land, but they also live on our land without using our culture, they tend to use Western culture. And many indigenous people not get a job which they want because the job already taken by the Chinese people...

What about that, is that political activity tend to bring colonialism? That is why I consider Islamism is superior than a Chinese culture. We 500 years ago agree voluntary to be a part of Ottoman Islamic nation's vassal without any curiousity and rough contradiction. Different on how we deal with the Chinese....

@90sRetroFan

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg13221/#msg13221

If I borrow money from you and I find it difficult to pay you back, is it your fault?

See this fact below

...So they begin to send many immigrant workers to work on our land, but they also live on our land without using our culture, they tend to use Western culture. And many indigenous people not get a job which they want because the job already taken by the Chinese people...

And also, you don't have a problem seeing indebted nations using Renmimbi as their currencies and their land controlled by China. Yet you always denounce Western colonialism. What matter is the consequences. If the consequences bring to oppression. Then the cooperation is not good. If China's cooperation did not bring oppression. Then there is no complain and dissatisfaction from the nation which cooperate... Many protest happen on my nation because of that Chinese policies

Your Far East geopolitics need to be reconsidered. Many Eastern nations have more hatred to Chinese rather than, for example, Russia.. And also many countries in continent named "Africa" voluntarily give their people to fight with Russian soldiers in Russia-Ukraine War rather than work economically with this Chinese Bolshevism Hordes

Malaysia and Philippines also more dissatisfied with China. Their sea borders oftenly violated by Chinese seaman...

@90sRetroFan

This was agreed upon by both sides before money was borrowed! What part of this do you not understand?

If the cooperated nations are dissatisfied to do economical work with China. then China do something which violate the agreement. And this is actually happen...

China would be oppressed if it were not allowed to follow an agreement that both sides had already agreed to.

China are the oppressor. They set a unnegotiated debt to the client nation. So the client nation are fooled...

If you keep this Far East Pro-China policy. You will lost support from muslim and also dark-skinned people from "Africa". No one like China, and we proud that our founding fathers, Dictator Sukarno and Suharto always keep China people being second-class citizens and restricted. They behave like Jews, prioritize their own people before the nation. It's fool and unwise if we let the Chinese people walk freely without restriction on our land. And also China, prioritize profit above solidarity. Your pro-China policy did not fool us, I doubt that you are a socialist.... Chinese are extreme capitalist nation today...

@90sRetroFan

What do you men "unnegotiated"? Both states negotiated until they were both willing to sign an agreement FFS!

China and the client nation make a negotiation. And after begin the work, they doing something which not negotiated at the first place, that is giving the high debt rate to the client nation. So the client nation have difficulties to pay back the loan. And China deliberately do that for the sake oppress that client nation easily without a war. They send Chinese workers to make the facilities and infrastructures on the client nation, and let them live on that builded land. And the local people feel angry to them. But they cannot resist and drive them out. Because Chinese workers already got protected to live on their land from the trapping agreements between China and the client nation. That is not cooperation, but oppression without sadism...

@90sRetroFan

"they doing something which not negotiated at the first place, that is giving the high debt rate to the client nation."

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The other state had the option to not borrow the money.

China also have option to not give high debt rate after the negotiation completed. But they choose to do that for the sake oppressing another nation to subjugate them. Seems you supporting a nation oppressing another nation while you promoting empathy and justice... We are not stupid...

"Chinese workers already got protected to live on their land from the trapping agreements between China and the client nation."

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In other words, China is simply following the agreement. China is not at fault.

China doing agreements which give trap to the client nations after the agreement, during the work is ongoing. not just simply following the agreement. And also, if you support the Chinese do that thing, you support IMF World Organization too then. They do the same thing to the client nations...

Imagine you doing an loan agreement with some people. They show the original debt rate. Then during you work with his loan. Suddenly he tell you that the debt rate is different and higher rather than the debt rate which shown during the agreement before... Of course that is trap and cheating. Are you support the people who like cheating and trapping?

If you still defending your irrational pro-Chinese argument. Your sites already seen by many people. And people just see that you are doing political bias without valid argument

@90sRetroFan

"Imagine you doing an loan agreement with some people. They show the original debt rate. Then during you work with his loan. Suddenly he tell you that the debt rate is different and higher rather than the debt rate which shown during the agreement before..."

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Then I can directly refer to the text of the agreement to justify paying back only as much as originally agreed to.

And they don't care anymore about the previous agreement which they signed before, they want the new debt rate which they recently want to be paid. This can be applied to the case about China's attitude on economic work. Why you still support China then?