Author Topic: Chinese Question  (Read 1615 times)

90sRetroFan

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Re: Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2022, 11:57:31 pm »
"Here is the phenotype of the actor who plays the character:"

Fan also appears in the Counterculture-era classic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Righting_Wrongs



Pause at 6:37 and contrast his face with that of Yuen who is the hero. (By the way, avoid this cut of the movie, which uses the modified ending. The original ending is the canonical one.)

Some time back, Zea_mays and I were watching another Counterculture-era classic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Run_(1988_film)

in which we noted the facial contrast between Yuen and the main villain Chin (pause at 10:03):



Also note who is wearing a necktie!

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/dress-decolonization/msg5817/#msg5817

If you want to discuss the movies themselves, we can continue here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/

"congee"

Also discussed here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/dietary-decolonization/msg7707/#msg7707
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 03:06:36 am by 90sRetroFan »

guest30

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Chinese Problem
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2022, 10:24:39 pm »
China today behave like Western Colonial nations in the past. But with economic way... See this information below

Quote
Source : https://ekbis.sindonews.com/read/740901/33/deretan-negara-yang-berutang-ke-china-nomor-3-terpaksa-lepas-tanah-1000-km2-1649743455

"...JAKARTA - Several countries are noted to have large debts to China. In fact, there are countries whose loan values almost reach 25% of gross domestic product (GDP). Countries indebted to China are scattered, ranging from countries located in Africa, Asia and the Pacific. Not a few also feel trapped by China's debt.

...

Maldwa is an island nation in the Indian Ocean which is one of the countries in debt to China. Speaker of the People's Assembly (Parliament of the Maldives) and former President Mohamed Nasheed said in December 2019 that the Maldives owed China $3.5 billion

...

Nasheed said China's debt trap is an economic and human rights issue, as well as a sovereignty and freedom issue for the island nation. According to him, the increasing project costs, the value of debt on paper is far greater than the $1.1 billion that the country has received.

...

According to the country's bank data, Pakistan's debt to China was USD7.2 billion in 2017; then increased to USD19 billion in April 2018 and USD30 billion in 2020. The debt swelling was mainly due to loans to finance the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project. The New York Times reported on the military dimension of the investment that emerged in December 2018, calling it an opaque and poorly regulated debt trap.

...

A number of countries in Africa are also in debt to China. These countries increased their borrowing from China between 2000 and 2014 (totaling a total of USD94.5 billion or approximately Rp1,351.35 trillion) as they sought to end dependence on the IMF and World Bank, which demanded market liberalization in exchange for loan. China is a major project stakeholder in the economies of many African countries, significantly influencing many affairs on the continent. According to research conducted as part of the Debt Jubilee Campaign in October 2018, Africa's debt to China rose from USD10 billion in 2010 to more than USD30 billion in 2016. In 2020, the African country with the largest Chinese debt is Angola (USD25 billion) , Ethiopia (USD13.5 billion), Zambia (USD7.4 billion), Republic of the Congo (USD7.3 billion), and Sudan (USD6.4 billion). A total of $143 billion for African governments and state-owned companies between 2000 and 2017.

Apart from the above countries, China has also provided loans to Kyrgyzstan, Laos and Mongolia. It also provided a $115 million loan to Tonga to rebuild its infrastructure, and a $2 billion loan to Papua New Guinea (which is almost a quarter of the country's national debt). China also has ongoing projects in Trinidad and Tobago, including a $500 million Chinese-built dry dock and a $102 million industrial park in La Brea.


And the people of American Renaissance on their online website have more deep information about China people's political worldview, see this information below :

Quote
Source : https://www.amren.com/features/2017/03/chinese-college-students-think-race/

"As an English teacher at a Chinese university, I spend a lot of time with young people. As a result of friendships I’ve developed, I have learned a lot about what they think about race and ethnicity. ...

...

When I ask my students what they think of black people, they express mixed results depending on sex. The girls often react with disgust, revulsion, or pity. They use terms such as “ugly,” “black skin,” “weird hair,” “smelly,” “loud,” and “flat nose.” Part of this has to do with Chinese standards of beauty, which value a prominent or “high nose,” “three dimensional face,” “light skin,” and “double eyelids” (a skin crease above the eyes like that of whites). The Chinese perception of beauty is almost the exact opposite of the way blacks look.

The girls’ disgust is often combined with fear, and they associate blacks with crime. This gut attitude from Chinese girls can be perplexing because it arises from those who have often never met a black person, or have seen them only in passing. It seems to me this association of black people with danger and violence is almost innate for Chinese people, especially women. I’ve also noticed that black African young men have absolutely no luck trying to date Chinese girls, who see them as weird, ugly, and aggressive.

This contrasts sharply with Chinese girls’ typical reaction to whites. From my own observation, and from what I hear from others, they practically throw themselves at white guys. In our class introductions at the beginning of the semester, I usually have at least four or five ask if I will date them — they flirt with me right in front of the class. Many more make advances privately.

The Pakistani boys have mixed results. Some of them are successful, but if they are too traditional in their Islamic behavior, the Chinese girls reject them.

...

However, Chinese boys are not attracted to black women and would never think of marrying one. I was once in a group discussion in which it was jokingly suggested China should invade Africa to acquire women to fill the sex gap plaguing China (thirty million Chinese boys have no girl to marry). One of the Chinese men in the group looked perplexed, and said: “But there are no women in Africa for us to marry; there are only dark-skinned people there.”


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Source : https://www.amren.com/news/2018/10/kenyans-say-chinese-investment-brings-racism-and-discrimination/

"As the country embraces China’s expanding presence in the region, many Kenyans wonder whether the nation has unwittingly welcomed an influx of powerful foreigners who are shaping the country’s future — while also bringing racist attitudes with them. ...

...

Today, many younger Kenyans say that racism is a phenomenon they largely know indirectly, through history lessons and foreign news. But episodes involving discriminatory behavior by the region’s growing Chinese work force have unsettled many Kenyans, particularly at a time when their government seeks closer ties with China.

...

But here in Nairobi, concerns about racism and discrimination are a growing part of the conversation about China’s expanding presence.

Other Kenyan workers explained how their office bathrooms were separated by race: one for Chinese employees, the other for Kenyans. Yet another Kenyan worker described how a Chinese manager directed his Kenyan employees to unclog a urinal of cigarette butts, even though only Chinese employees dared smoke inside.

The Chinese population in Kenya is difficult to count accurately, although one research group put the figure at around 40,000. Many are here for just a few years, to work for one of hundreds of Chinese companies. Many of the employees live together in large housing developments and are bussed back and forth from work, leaving little social interaction with Kenyans.

“Because of the isolation and lack of integration, usually they are not very aware of the local situation,” said Hongxiang Huang, a Chinese conservationist and former journalist who has lived in Nairobi. “They do not know very well how to interact with the outside world.”

And many arrive with hierarchical views of culture and race that tend to place Africans at the bottom, said Howard French, a former New York Times correspondent who wrote the 2014 book “China’s Second Continent,” which chronicles the lives of Chinese settlers in Africa.


Quote
Source : https://www.amren.com/news/2020/12/how-racism-and-discrimination-affect-black-people-in-china-and-hong-kong/

"A report in February led by Adams Bodomo, from the University of Vienna, said that approximately half of 1 million African migrants in China had restricted access to local health services, and that their quality of life was “also affected by racial discrimination and visa policy restrictions”.

In April, widespread reports emerged from the large African community in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou of harassment during the coronavirus outbreak, including being evicted from their homes or subject to forced quarantine. A McDonald’s restaurant in Guangzhou was also forced to apologise after it put up a sign banning black people from entering.

Black Livity China, a platform for the African diaspora in China, has posted on its website advocating for more awareness of discrimination against Africans in the country, including posting about racist articles on WeChat and blackface in Chinese ads. “Naturally, this anti-African sentiment isn’t echoed by all Chinese people, but it is contributing to a growing sense of insecurity among many in the community,” its editorial team wrote in October.

In Hong Kong, there have also been complaints of discrimination among the estimated 3,144 people of African descent among the city’s 7.5 million population, according to the 2016 Population By-census. The city’s equal opportunity watchdog said that 492 complaints of discrimination against the community have been filed in the past five years.

A new study on African migrants in June by four scholars from Hong Kong and one from the University of Johannesburg found that African migrants in the city faced challenges including limited social networks, lack of awareness of social services, social alienation, limited job opportunities and poor housing.

On the HomeGrown podcast, honest conversations about race have resonated with a broader community, as people relate to what Sowole, also known as Fantastic Fo, described as “random acts of ignorance”. One listener from Sri Lanka told the hosts how she was assumed to be a cleaning lady when trying to visit a wellness centre in Tsim Sha Tsui.

Sowole said he has felt the weight of representing his race, something that white expats don’t need to bear: “When one black person does something bad, the entire race is stereotyped, so you’re much more aware of how you behave,” he said. “One drunken white person doesn’t change the perception of their entire race, whereas one drunken black person can be a reflection on everyone from Nigerians to African-Americans and Jamaicans.”

Experts say that Hong Kong has a complex racial history as a former British colony that has often left ethnic minorities – including Africans, South Asians and Southeast Asians – feeling alienated from their ethnic Chinese counterparts.

Quote
Source : https://www.amren.com/news/2020/12/how-racism-and-discrimination-affect-black-people-in-china-and-hong-kong/

"Pan, who lives in Tianjin near Beijing — and nowhere near Guangdong — held his proposal aloft for reporters to see. It read in part (links in Chinese):

“Black brothers often travel in droves; they are out at night out on the streets, nightclubs, and remote areas. They engage in drug trafficking, harassment of women, and fighting, which seriously disturbs law and order in Guangzhou… Africans have a high rate of AIDS and the Ebola virus that can be transmitted via body fluids… If their population [keeps growing], China will change from a nation-state to an immigration country, from a yellow country to a black-and-yellow country.”

On social media, the Chinese response has been overwhelmingly supportive, with many commenters echoing Pan’s fears. In a forum dedicated to discussions about black people in Guangdong on Baidu Tieba — an online community focused on internet search results — many participants agreed that China was facing a “black invasion.” One commenter called on Chinese people (link in Chinese) not to let “thousands of years of Chinese blood become polluted.”

The stream of racist vitriol online makes the infamous Chinese TV ad for Qiaobi laundry detergent, which went viral last year, seem mild in comparison. The ad featured a Asian woman stuffing a black man into a washing machine to turn him into a pale-skinned Asian man. ...

...

Looking deeper into history, evidence suggests a preference for slaves from East Africa in ancient China. African slavery in the country peaked during the Tang (618 to 907) and Song (960 to 1279) dynasties.

More recently, violence broke out after the Chinese government started providing scholarships allowing African students to study in the country in the 1960s. Many Chinese students resented the stipends Africans received, with tensions culminating in riots in Nanjing in the late 1980s. The riots began with angry Chinese students surrounding African students’ dormitories in Hehai University and pelting them with rocks and bottles for seven hours, with crowds later marching through the streets shouting anti-African slogans.

In the past few years, loathing among some Chinese toward foreign men who date local women has led to a recent rise in violent attacks against foreigners.

{snip}

Instead of addressing discrimination, the Chinese government has focused on promoting cultural exchanges while pursuing economic partnerships with African countries. However, many have pointed out that relationships appear unbalanced, with China taking Africa’s limited natural resources in exchange for infrastructure investment.

Can you, True Left Community have more attention towards the Communist China and also the Chinese race?

rp

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2022, 11:29:36 pm »
This is precisely what Deng Xiaoping warned against..

90sRetroFan

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2022, 11:43:47 pm »
Quote
Several countries are noted to have large debts to China.

They chose to borrow the money. China did not force them to borrow the money.

Quote
many arrive with hierarchical views of culture and race that tend to place Africans at the bottom

Who introduced this hierarchy in the first place? Western civilization did! Therefore we need to help China de-Westernize, which is what I have already been saying all over the forum. I don't see you contributing much.

Quote
A McDonald’s restaurant in Guangzhou was also forced to apologise after it put up a sign banning black people from entering.

We should support the side forcing the restaurant to apologize.

Quote
pursuing economic partnerships with African countries. However, many have pointed out that relationships appear unbalanced, with China taking Africa’s limited natural resources in exchange for infrastructure investment.

Again, China is not forcing them to accept these deals. The countries can choose to turn down any deals they find unsatisfactory and get better deals elsewhere if they can.

guest30

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2022, 12:04:31 am »
@90sRetroFan

Quote
...Who introduced this hierarchy in the first place? Western civilization did! Therefore we need to help China de-Westernize, which is what I have already been saying all over the forum. I don't see you contributing much. ...

Have you see the all of information, seems China has racist worldview from their own thousand years ago and today they still use that thing. See this information which you missed :

Quote
...Looking deeper into history, evidence suggests a preference for slaves from East Africa in ancient China. African slavery in the country peaked during the Tang (618 to 907) and Song (960 to 1279) dynasties....

Source : https://www.amren.com/news/2020/12/how-racism-and-discrimination-affect-black-people-in-china-and-hong-kong/

Remember, Islamic people despise China, you will lose our support if you still support China without rational observation and reason. And also, people from Kenya, Angola, Zimbabwe, and other non-industrial nations. Mostly Nusantara people today despise China, particularly devout Islamic people.

Our founding fathers, Dictator Sukarno also despise Chinese people, he approved his minister's order to expel many of Chinese people from Nusantara during 1959. Because they behave like foreigners and make a monopoly business which endanger the nation's economy.

Dictator Suharto, Sukarno's successor also give many restrictions and total control to the Chinese people for avoiding their capitalist behaviour.

And the oppressed nations have an aid and support to resist mostly not from the Chinese, but non-Chinese nations like North Korea, Cuba, Japan, and Libya


90sRetroFan

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2022, 12:29:29 am »
But there were also Chinese slaves in China back then, so ingroup-outgroup double standards were not being applied. You are arguing using WN talking points that we debunked more than a decade ago.

"Islamic people"

Also from AmRen:

https://www.amren.com/features/2017/02/black-slavery-middle-east/

but this too is not an application of ingroup-outgroup double standards since there were also slaves of the same ethnicity as the slave owners.

If you are so upset about slavery in general that you must consider China your enemy, you should by the same logic be upset enough about slavery in general to consider Islamic countries your enemies also. But if you are willing to give the latter (but not the former) a pass, then I must wonder if you are the one applying ingroup-outgroup double standards?

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2022, 01:16:06 am »
@90sRetroFan

Quote
...then I must wonder if you are the one applying ingroup-outgroup double standards?

Chinese philosophy doesn't see Judeo-Christianity movements as their main world enemy, the true evil of the world, different than Islamic philosophy. So I don't think that Chinese political worldview can have the same value like Islam. I am not enforcing in-group out-group double-standard. You know Felix Siauw, a Chinese muslim in Nusantara, support Islamic nationalism and caliphate. I don't dislike him...

90sRetroFan

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2022, 02:07:46 am »
Your approach will only end up pushing China closer to Russia, which is the opposite of what we are trying to do here.


guest30

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2022, 08:31:06 am »
@90sRetroFan

Quote
They chose to borrow the money. China did not force them to borrow the money.

Jews also do the same thing to the European government. The Europeans choose freely to work with them and use their harmful borrowing-money economic system even tough they also got debt trapped. And after that, they did it to the rest of the world with the help of Western Civilization and European achievements.

Quote
Again, China is not forcing them to accept these deals. The countries can choose to turn down any deals they find unsatisfactory and get better deals elsewhere if they can.

Or... China success to make the nations whom they give lend money look fool on their view... And... also, try to tell your arguments to the nations which got trapped economically by Chinese Asiatic Hordes

Quote
If you are so upset about slavery in general that you must consider China your enemy, you should by the same logic be upset enough about slavery in general to consider Islamic countries your enemies also. But if you are willing to give the latter (but not the former) a pass, then I must wonder if you are the one applying ingroup-outgroup double standards?

I have a good answer for you... Can people, especially dark-skinned people easily considered as fellow Chinese, or more easy to be considered as fellow muslims? Try that arguments to the Chinese people whom you found. And I doubt you will find a proper answer like you want...

Alright, I begin to accept your hostility to Russia. Seeing my Islamic organization which I support, Islamic Brotherhood Front (IBF) choose neutral on Russia-Ukraine War. But let's talk more about this Chinese problem. My nation also strongly dislike the Chinese...

90sRetroFan

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2022, 09:09:50 pm »
"Jews also do the same thing to the European government."

The Jewish bankers lending money to the government were citizens of the states whose governments they were lending the money to. When China lends to other countries, that is lending from one state to another state.

"they did it to the rest of the world with the help of Western Civilization and European achievements."

In other words, the Western colonialist armies literally killed those who refused to borrow money. China's army is not doing this.

"Chinese Asiatic Hordes"

Why are you using Western terminology to describe Chinese? Are you a Westerner?

"Can people, especially dark-skinned people easily considered as fellow Chinese, or more easy to be considered as fellow muslims?"

The correct question to ask should be: are Chinese more willing to work with non-Chinese fellow victims of Western colonialism, or are Muslims more willing to work with non-Muslim fellow victims of Western colonialism? Here are your own words:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/nationalism-and-islamism-comparisons/msg12987/#msg12987

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If they want to submit the Islamic rule. We cannot trust the non-muslims.

If you represent Muslims, I would choose Chinese any day. Fortunately I know plenty of non-bigot Muslims, therefore I continue to have hope in both.

"My nation also strongly dislike the Chinese..."

This is stupid. Your correct geopolitical enemy is Australia. You should look at what Australia says about China. Why would you agree with Australia? Fortunately some Nusantarans know better:

https://www.news.com.au/world/pacific/respect-us-solomon-islands-pm-launches-tirade-with-scathing-rebuke-of-australia/news-story/e632ce6a7e3055ea4bb34f9383a21bbe

Quote
‘Respect us’: Solomon Islands PM launches tirade with scathing rebuke of Australia
...
Prime Minister of the Solomon Islands Manasseh Sogavare has ramped up criticisms of Australia’s response to a recent defence deal with China.

Addressing the country’s parliament in Honiara on this week, Mr Sogavare launched into a tirade ranging from Australia’s lack of respect for the Pacific Nation to western global influence.

He labelled groups within the Solomon Islands that opposed the signing of a security pact with China “racists” and ”bigots”, the ABC reported.

The speech included an apparent swipe at those who referred to the Solomons as “Australia’s backyard”.

“[A backyard] is where rubbish is collected and burnt. It is an area which supports the daily wellbeing of residents of the house,” Mr Sogavare said.

“I call on those people who continue to brand us as their backyard to stop calling us that name and start to respect us as a sovereign independent nation with one equal vote in the United Nations.”

guest30

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2022, 11:46:26 pm »
@90sRetroFan

Quote
"The Jewish bankers lending money to the government were citizens of the states whose governments they were lending the money to. When China lends to other countries, that is lending from one state to another state."

The point is, they similarly oppressing a community of people with economic measures

Quote
"they did it to the rest of the world with the help of Western Civilization and European achievements."

Quote
In other words, the Western colonialist armies literally killed those who refused to borrow money. China's army is not doing this.

That is the cunning ability of the Chinese. Oppressing a community of people without sadism

Quote
"Chinese Asiatic Hordes"

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Why are you using Western terminology to describe Chinese? Are you a Westerner?

Because Chinese people proud to be a Westerner. I already told you with proof of photos that the Chinese people like to live with Western standards. See my previous post...

Quote
The correct question to ask should be: are Chinese more willing to work with non-Chinese fellow victims of Western colonialism, or are Muslims more willing to work with non-Muslim fellow victims of Western colonialism? Here are your own words:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/nationalism-and-islamism-comparisons/msg12987/#msg12987

Quote
If they want to submit the Islamic rule. We cannot trust the non-muslims.

If you represent Muslims, I would choose Chinese any day. Fortunately I know plenty of non-bigot Muslims, therefore I continue to have hope in both.

If Chinese want to work with fellow victim of colonialism. They not make a debt trap economic agreement to them. But the fact is otherwise... And also, non-muslims will get safety and ordinary live with some of additional taxes if they live in Islamic rule. So Islamizing the non-muslims doesn't mean oppressing them.

And non-muslim religions tend to ideologically support liberalism and secularism, and economically support capitalism. That is the reason we not trust the non-muslims. Non-muslims in my country tend to be a liberals which you also hate that thing...

And, a good historical information for you by the way, enjoy...

Quote
Source : https://historia.id/militer/articles/di-balik-pendirian-pao-an-tui-vQNow/page/1

This Chinese security guard was later known as Pao An Tui (PAT). When the independence revolution raged in North Sumatra, PAT played the role of the enemy of the Republicans. The play is not without reason. In times of crisis, they are squeezed to defend themselves in order to continue living.

...

The proclamation of independence brought the position of the Chinese community under threat. After the Japanese occupation ended, the Chinese were subjected to intimidation. Radical natives often visit the residences or shops of the Chinese, who are generally merchants. Having had their property looted, these poor Chinese citizens are very vulnerable to becoming victims of kidnapping, ****, and even murder.

"The Chinese were subjected to systematic acts of retaliation, because they were financially strong and attached as Dutch opportunist collaborators," wrote Dutch historian Anne van deer Veer in the introduction to her thesis at Leiden University "The Pao An Tui in Medan: A Chinese Security Force. in Dutch Occupied Indonesia, 1945-1948".

The Chinese people must be punished in order to be a good Nusantaran. They did a horrible crime during Nusantara was colonized by the European nations. That is the main reason why until today Nusantarans hate the Chinese people. Even until now their behaviour still not changed, diong economic things which only benefit themselves but oppressing the rest of Nusantarans

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"My nation also strongly dislike the Chinese..."

Quote
This is stupid. Your correct geopolitical enemy is Australia. You should look at what Australia says about China. Why would you agree with Australia?

Are you remember that on previous conversation post I want to nuke Australia. But you offer me a soft solution with "non-white" people mass immigration approach to Australia? I have more ruthless approach to the "whites" rather than to the "Chinese".

90sRetroFan

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2022, 12:38:12 am »
"oppressing"

The borrowing is voluntary. What part of this do you not understand?

"If Chinese want to work with fellow victim of colonialism. They not make a debt trap economic agreement to them."

An agreement means both states choose freely to engage in it. The term "debt trap" is nonsense. Both states understand the terms and the risks before signing the contract. Therefore there is no trap.

What is China supposed to do? Let the other state get away with not paying back the money that it agreed to pay back? Then what is the point of signing a contract in the first place?

"I want to nuke Australia."

Do you understand that Australia wants to see poor relations between China and Nusantara? Therefore, by promoting hostility towards China, you are helping Australia?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-hits-back-australia-over-093000518.html

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Addressing an online event with Pacific Island nations the same day, China's vice foreign minister Xie Feng said negotiating and signing a framework security cooperation agreement was "the sacred right of two sovereign countries" in line with international laws and norms, and no one had the right to point fingers at China.
...
Xie said Australia's stance amounted to "disinformation, defamation, coercion and intimidation", and proof that it was still "obsessed with colonialist myths, exercising coercive diplomacy, trying hard to control the Pacific islands to maintain a so-called sphere of influence".

"The Pacific is the common home of regional countries, not someone's 'backyard' or 'turf', and should be a stage for international cooperation, not a chessboard for geopolitical games," he declared.

The China-Solomon security agreement is "open and transparent [and] not targeted at third parties," Xie told a virtual event launching a cooperation centre on climate change for China and Pacific Island countries, in the eastern Chinese province of Shandong.

He said China understood the climate change challenges facing the island nations and was willing to provide help "as a good friend, partner and brother."

Attending the event virtually were officials from Solomon Islands, Kiribati, Niue, Samoa, Tonga, Micronesia, Kiribati, Fiji and Vanuatu.

guest30

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2022, 01:40:55 am »
@90sRetroFan

Quote
The borrowing is voluntary. What part of this do you not understand?

What I see is, if borrowing are voluntary between the borrower and lender. Then there is no feel of got fooled or trapped to the borrower. This Chinese's so-called "economic cooperation" got complain almost every country who try to cooperate with them. Therefore there is a fraud from the lender after the terms agreement.

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An agreement means both states choose freely to engage in it. The term "debt trap" is nonsense. Both states understand the terms and the risks before signing the contract. Therefore there is no trap.

And the reality is, Chinese "One Belt One Road"'s foreign economic policy seen by many nations as a "economic trap". So there is a scandal on that policy.

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Do you understand that Australia wants to see poor relations between China and Nusantara? Therefore, by promoting hostility towards China, you are helping Australia?

From my observation until today. Nusantara behave neutrally if we faced by that two nations. Not side with one of them. Habib Rizieq Shihab consider both Western nations and China are colonialist, but with different way.

acc9

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2022, 02:16:05 am »



Perhaps this excerpt of a 2012 lecture by Korean American Professor David Kang on East Asian history could shed some light on the question.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Chinese Question
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2022, 03:03:18 am »
"This Chinese's so-called "economic cooperation" got complain almost every country who try to cooperate with them. Therefore there is a fraud from the lender after the terms agreement."

If you cannot point out which terms of the agreement were violated, the complaint cannot be taken seriously. Dissatisfaction with the result of an agreement does not on its own imply fraud.

"Chinese "One Belt One Road"'s foreign economic policy seen by many nations as a "economic trap". So there is a scandal on that policy."

If they did not like what was proposed, they should have declined getting involved to begin with. You cannot accept the proposal and then blame the proposer for proposing what you accepted!