Author Topic: Debate with the Liberals  (Read 1805 times)

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2022, 12:05:07 am »
"They support it, they not doing anything when Trump win election"

They are calling it the Big Lie. They are not saying "everyone has their own truth" as you claimed.

"many of Nusantarans support Russia"

If they support Russia, they cannot be called Nusantarans.

In any case, I suspect it is mainly due to shared homophobia. Portraying Russia as the champion of homophobia and America as the champion of LGBT is part of Dugin's strategy to win over homophobes all over the world:

https://bostonreview.net/articles/putins-anti-gay-war-on-ukraine/

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The reality is that the Kremlin has constructed a pernicious ideology of homophobia as geopolitics
...
In numerous speeches, Putin has positioned Russia as an international leader in the defense of “traditional values.” In this way, gender conservatism contributes to carving out a meaningful geopolitical role for Russia in a world order where LGBT rights have become international politics
...
The Kremlin and other actors actively promote this narrative beyond Russia’s borders. The rhetoric of “traditional values” and its concomitant geopolitical worldview are circulated in Kremlin-loyal Russian media and consumed by many Russian-speakers in nearby countries. As historian Bethany Moreton just noted in these pages, in transnational organizations promoting “family values” such as the World Congress of Families, Russian pro-Putin oligarchs fraternize with U.S. evangelicals, ultra-conservative Catholic organizations, and parts of the European radical right, seeking common strategies to combat “gender ideology”—a catch-all term of derision used to describe everything from abortion and sex-ed in schools to trans rights and same-sex marriage. In the United Nations, meanwhile, Russia has worked together with some states in the Islamic world and Sub-Saharan Africa, and more recently, nationalist populist regimes such as Poland and Brazil, to roll back sexual and reproductive rights.
...
the narrative of Russia standing up for “traditional values” against a degenerated West has long-standing roots in Russian intellectual history.
...
According to historian Dan Healey, discourses on gender and sexuality in Russia have been shaped by a “tripartite geography of perversion” where Russia is imagined as an in-between space of sexual morality and innocence, neither part of the “decadent” West or the “primitive” Orient. Such a moral mapping influenced the conservative gender politics of the 1930s Stalin regime, when the Communists reintroduced the ban on sodomy (which had been lifted after the 1917 revolution) and explicitly depicted homosexuality as a security threat in the form of underground, pro-Hitler networks of homosexuals—Healey calls the conservative turn under Stalin the “birth of modern Russian political homophobia.”

guest30

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2022, 12:58:10 am »
@90sRetroFan

Quote
If they support Russia, they cannot be called Nusantarans.

Sukarno cannot be called as Nusantarans? He strongly allied with Soviet Russia rather than the Chinese Communist. And He ordered their government officials to expelled more than 50.000 Chinese people on our land because they behave monopolistic on their business activities. Many Chinese were brutally harassed by the Nusantarans during that time and they leave our land.

Today Islamic Socialist Organization FPI (Front Persaudaraan Islam) also share the same views with Sukarno.

And, most of our Nusantara heroes have less problem to Russia rather than to, Chinese for example. In Bersiap Periode during national revolution against Netherlands colonialism, our local militia doing mass **** and killings to the Netherlands Europeans and the Chinese people. And no one have problem with Russia. During 1826s our national hero Pangeran Diponegoro also had no problem with Russia, only with the Dutch and the Chinese people who most of them worked with them for business. And the result is mass genocide of the Chinese people by the Nusantara troops.

Quote
In any case, I suspect it is mainly due to shared homophobia. Portraying Russia as the champion of homophobia and America as the champion of LGBT is part of Dugin's strategy to win over homophobes all over the world: ...

They support Russia not because their gender worldviews. But because they shared memory of anti-colonialism during Russia become Soviet Socialist. See information below :

Quote


(Shown on March 18, 2022)

"...The reason why Indonesian netizens are pro-Russian. The first is the strong anti-American and anti-Western attitude in society. This sentiment has emerged since the United States intensified its war on terror, military campaigns to hunt down terrorists such as in Iraq and Afghanistan. few netizens sympathize with what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. As a result, anyone who opposes the United States or the West will be defended. ..."

The problem is, Nusantarans mostly hate Chinese and the West, not Russia. They keep being good on Russians, including Russian tourist in Bali. It's difficult to give the reason to public why Nusantarans must hate Russia. They never oppressed directly or indirectly by Russia.


90sRetroFan

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2022, 02:24:40 am »
"The problem is, Nusantarans mostly hate Chinese and the West, not Russia."

Russia is a Western country. Anyone who does not consider Russia a Western country does not deserve to be called Nusantaran.

You should try to teach people to include Russia within their mental conception of Western civilization. Use this map:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/social-decolonization/msg9846/#msg9846

Quote

...
(The above map also makes clear that Russia (often excluded from "the West" by mainstream journalism) is in fact socially Western.)

Also show them examples of Russian aesthetics, which are unmistakably Western:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg12948/?topicseen#msg12948

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg12083/#msg12083

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg7947/?topicseen#msg7947

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg4414/#msg4414

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg4413/?topicseen#msg4413

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3941/#msg3941

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3940/?topicseen#msg3940

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3911/?topicseen#msg3911

I am sure you can find many more examples of your own if you spend some time.

"It's difficult to give the reason to public why Nusantarans must hate Russia."

Russia is the only Western colonial empire which still hasn't given back its stolen land:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/msg13916/#msg13916

Therefore however much you hate the Netherlands and other Western colonial empires, you should hate Russia more.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 02:33:08 am by 90sRetroFan »
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guest30

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2022, 03:28:11 am »
@90sRetroFan

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Russia is the only Western colonial empire which still hasn't given back its stolen land:

What about "Midwest" United States and "Canada"? I found difficulties to totally condemn Russia until the "North America" and "Oceania" got heavy condemnation of their land too. That is the real reason... So forgive me if I'm too empathic to the redskin people...

And also... What about this quote from famous man?

Quote
Stalin: in 1937, he declared: 'I'm not a European, but a Russified Georgian-Asiatic.

Stalin: Russia is an Asiatic country, and I myself am an Asiatic.”

Source : https://www.quora.com/Did-Stalin-consider-himself-to-be-West-Asian-or-European


90sRetroFan

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2022, 04:21:08 am »
"I found difficulties to totally condemn Russia until the "North America" and "Oceania" got heavy condemnation of their land too."

I have always encouraged your hostility towards Australia, which still uses the British colonial flag and recognizes Elizabeth Windsor as head of state. Still, at least Australia is a separate country from Britain. And the US is totally separate from Britain. Most importantly, the US steadily undergoing the Great Replacement, so it is strategically stupid to be hostile towards the US now. Instead, you should be helping us prepare a key seat for the US among the other former victims of Western colonialism, which is how the US will surely learn to see itself after the Great Replacement is complete.

In any case, you have not refuted my argument that Russia is worse than the Netherlands. Therefore, since you claim to hate the Netherlands, you should at least hate Russia more than you hate the Netherlands.

"And also... What about this quote from famous man?"

"Asiatic" is a Eurocentric term in the first place.


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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2022, 09:32:43 pm »
@90sRetroFan

Liberals say that we must not to be easily offended when we accused by others with ridiculous or offensive words. Because if we keep fine with other people's offensive words and not attack them back with violence. Peace of society will prevail. And the people who are easily offended considered by them as "not exciting" and "hard feeling". What the solution of that argument?

On this case, I find difficulties on answer that thing

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2022, 09:43:17 pm »
This is why I want to bring back duelling. It is best way to resolve "hard feelings" between individuals while preventing conflict from escalating.

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-duelling/

Is duelling "not exciting"?

guest30

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2022, 10:08:53 pm »
@90sRetroFan

Quote
Is duelling "not exciting"?

They not want it. It will led more individuals who side with the individual who are duelling, to participate in fight too. And there will be a riot. And riot will harass the society order. And they consider people who are duelling to the people who are offensd them, are no different to them

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2022, 10:21:39 pm »
If duelling were legalized, anyone who disrupts a duel will be charged with a crime. Also, if duelling were legalized, duels could occur at government-run locations which could limit the number of people attending and have other measures designed to keep order.

Thus the people most worried about duels degenerating into riots are the ones who should most want duelling to be legalized (as opposed to occurring underground).

guest30

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2022, 11:54:50 pm »
@90sRetroFan

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...if duelling were legalized, ...

Duelling care to the strongest, not to people who are being offended by the offenders. What should we do if the offenders who are win, not the innocents? Duelling activity is naturally Darwinist by concept. Not Idealist...

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2022, 12:44:38 am »
"What should we do if the offenders who are win, not the innocents?"

Do better next time.

"Duelling activity is naturally Darwinist by concept."

No, duelling gives an advantage the side least afraid to die, whereas Darwinian competition gives an advantage to the side that most wants to survive.

"Not Idealist..."

Do you have a better alternative?

guest30

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2022, 01:20:40 am »
@90sRetroFan

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Do you have a better alternative?

Recognize the reason why the offenders offend the victim. And know who are their friends. If they are really offenders who are guilty, every single of their friends who actively make a good contact with him/her, and including him/her can be punished for their association. their good contact with him/her offending the innocents. Of course the liberals and conservatives don't care about feelings. Anyone who not want to be bothered to understand an empathic communication, or a new form of empathic communication which useful for a specific individual deserves to be punished, whether using Otto Warmbier treatment, or Das Reich's treatment.

This is why in Islam, people who offend the innocents cannot be pardoned until the victims forgive them.

This is why authoritarian moral police need to be enforced, not just security police. Like this historical police groups :

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_forces_of_Nazi_Germany

"...Sicherheitspolizei (SiPo; security police) consisting of two sub-departments of the Gestapo (Secret State Police) and Kriminalpolizei (Kripo; criminal police)"

No duelling, but supervising and controlling...

Remember your thoughts which we agree...

Anti-Relativism, both politically, or morally...

That thought is something that despised by the today leftist and rightist which poisoned by Masonic (Relativist) and Darwinist (Naturalist) teachings

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2022, 01:38:31 am »
"Recognize the reason why the offenders offend the victim."

Who is the offender and who is the victim in a private verbal dispute between individuals that both individuals entered into voluntarily?



guest30

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2022, 03:51:38 am »
@90sRetroFan

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Who is the offender and who is the victim in a private verbal dispute between individuals that both individuals entered into voluntarily?

The offender is the people who insult the victim. The victim is the people who are offended by him/her. We can see from the victim's depressed facial expression to show that they are really offended. And see their records of previous activity to show that they are not deserve to be offended, and they are really offended. We can interview the victim for 3 or 5 days with full attention.

After that, we already know that the offender are really guilty, so we can punish them with ostracism. If they still do that thing, then harsh punishment by the authorities is the last solution.

Most of the offenders and bulliers are like to the traditional and progressive ideology and way of thinking. You can trust my 15 years real-life observation, and also people's social media activity observation for 5 years.

Only totalitarian guided expression which solve that communication and expression's problem.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debate with the Liberals
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2022, 04:32:50 am »
"The offender is the people who insult the victim. The victim is the people who are offended by him/her."

What if both sides are offended by each other, and each claim the other insulted themselves?

"We can see from the victim's depressed facial expression to show that they are really offended."

Have you bothered to watch the Karen videos we have posted?

"And see their records of previous activity to show that they are not deserve to be offended, and they are really offended.

According to whose judgement?

"We can interview the victim for 3 or 5 days with full attention."

They will just say whatever makes themselves look good.

"After that, we already know that the offender are really guilty"

No, you don't.

"You can trust my 15 years real-life observation, and also people's social media activity observation for 5 years."

I do not. Would you trust someone else who claimed to have the same experience as what you described above, but who has political views opposed to yours?