Author Topic: Communism  (Read 559 times)

90sRetroFan

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Re: Communism
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2022, 03:23:53 pm »
The question was:

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“In the False Left/True Left dichotomy, where would communism be?”

to which I answered:

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False Left.

At that point, we were only considering where to place communism within the leftist axis. I admit some confusion could have been caused by the next part:

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“given that it is, in essence, class-based tribalism, would it not, in fact, be more accurate to place it at the right, together with the other forms of tribalism?”

No, because tribalism is not what makes an ideology rightist. A positive evaluation of Western civilization is what makes an ideology rightist:

I stand by my above statement as a disagreement with Hypnotix's reasoning that tribalism implies rightism, but I hereby clarify that it would indeed be acceptable to place communism on the right, THOUGH NOT BECAUSE IT IS CLASS-BASED TRIBALISM (thus standing by my above statement), but because it evaluates Western civilization positively, as I implicitly noted subsequently:

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I do state that Marx has something in common with neocons, but since neocons are only one faction of rightists, this cannot be considered a general rightist position. Besides, Marx only wanted capitalism to spread so that it could then be overthrown, whereas a sincere neocon would want it to spread and last.

To summarize:

1) If we were limited to classifying communism only along the False Left/True Left dichotomy, we would classify communism as False Left.

2) If we are permitted to classify communism as rightist, there is a case for doing so.

3) False Leftists are caught in the self-contradiction of liking progressivism while not wanting to credit Western civilization for progressivism due to their dislike of Western colonialism. Marx avoids this by finding a uniquely cynical way to like Western colonialism. On this account Marx is more similar to rightists than typical False Leftists are. Marx is a proud Westerner who merely disagrees that capitalism is the culmination of Western civilization, believing instead that communism is the culmination of Western civilization.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2022, 05:38:47 pm by 90sRetroFan »

christianbethel

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Re: Communism
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2022, 05:41:14 pm »
When you say 'progressivism', are you talking about the 'innovation and technology' progressivism or the 'social justice' progressivism?
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Communism
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2022, 05:55:58 pm »
Both.

rp

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Re: Communism
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2022, 08:25:07 pm »
Ok, that makes sense. Especially when we consider that the USSR and the bolshevik Untermensch continued to remain racist (ethnotribalist) in their policies even after the state supposedly forbode racism. There had to be some degree of compatibility with the underlying ideology there for that to have been possible.

On the other hand, adherents of present-day False Leftism cannot be racist as it incorporates into its following Gentiles from all ethnicities, which is only possible because of the ideology itself.

TLDR;
Communism = Right wing progressivism/egalitarianism
False Leftism = "Left wing" progressivism/egalitarianism

I recall you mentioned that it is possible for supposed "egalitarian" ideologies to be right wing since they are not really egalitarian at all (e.g. the plebian hubris of enlightenment liberalism that all "white" men are equal).

So can we say that classical liberalism can similarly be classified as a right wing ideology, given its positive evaluation of Western Civilization, and also that we could classify it as False Left within the False Left-True Left axis?


90sRetroFan

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Re: Communism
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2022, 09:16:47 pm »
"So can we say that classical liberalism can similarly be classified as a right wing ideology, given its positive evaluation of Western Civilization, and also that we could classify it as False Left within the False Left-True Left axis?"

Yes. The rhetoric of early post-9/11 Islamophobia, for example, was primarily rooted in classical liberalism.

There is no such thing as a coherent False Leftist ideology. Except for pure relativism (which is incoherent anyway), all other supposed False Left ideologies eventually expose themselves as rightist ideologies when explicitly challenged to comparatively evaluate Western and non-Western civilizations. When we talk about False Leftists, we are mainly talking about people, specifically people who when cornered will admit that they consider Western civilization superior, but who will try to avoid being cornered in order to avoid reaching this conclusion.

rp

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Re: Communism
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2022, 10:43:06 pm »
"rhetoric of early post-9/11 Islamophobia"
Yes, primarily from the "New Atheist" movement, whose thought leaders were mostly Jewish (e.g. Hitchens (Jew), Maher (Jew), Harris (Jew)). This indicates that Jews are not pure relativists/False Leftists and that the "False Leftist" ideologies they are peddling are merely a cover for rightism/absolutist traditionalism, which is what you have been saying. This makes sense given that Jewish ethnotribalism is fundamentally rightist.

christianbethel

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Re: Communism
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2022, 12:50:26 pm »
Both.
So when compared to 'progressivism' and 'liberalism', both which claim to promote social justice, what is our stance on social justice? National Socialism? I remember reading on the main site that socialism is essentially social justice, and either Hitler or Goebbels stated that socialism is supposed to be 'collective welfare'.
When in doubt, use the 16 Words: 'We must Engineer the Destruction of Western Civilization and Tribalism, and Unite All Races Through Nobility.'

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

History is Written by the Victors.

He Who Controls the Past Controls the Future; He Who Controls the Present Controls the Past.

90sRetroFan

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rp

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Re: Communism
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2022, 11:56:47 pm »
Going back to this post:
"When we talk about False Leftists, we are mainly talking about people, specifically people who when cornered will admit that they consider Western civilization superior, but who will try to avoid being cornered in order to avoid reaching this conclusion."

Are all irredeemable False Leftists really closet rightists then?

90sRetroFan

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Re: Communism
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2022, 01:15:05 am »
Perhaps not. If siding with us or siding with rightists were the only two options, some might side with us. Specifically, those who love Western civilization more than they hate "white" supremacy will side with rightists, whereas those who hate "white" supremacy more than they love Western civilization will side with us.

rp

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Re: Communism
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2022, 01:44:10 am »
Ok. So for example, Elon Musk belongs to the former group, while Antifa belongs to the latter.
So basically we have:
Racist rightists
Non-racist rightists (False Leftists who love Western Civilization)
Relativist False Leftists (those who hate White Supremacy but still love Western Civilization)
True Leftists

On a side note, Jews would always be considered racist rightists, even if they claim to be non-racist rightists (False Leftists) or relativists, right?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 01:49:19 am by rp »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Communism
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2022, 02:04:24 am »
"Relativist False Leftists (those who hate White Supremacy but still love Western Civilization)"

If you mean those who love all civilizations (one of which just so happens to be Western civilization) and therefore want to preserve them all (including Western civilization) for the sake of diversity, these could be described as relativist. But anyone who loves Western civilization more than other civilizations should not be described as relativist since this requires comparative evaluation of content.

"Jews would always be considered racist rightists, even if they claim to be non-racist rightists (False Leftists) or relativists, right?"

Yes, since Judaism itself is neither non-racist nor relativist.

rp

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Re: Communism
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2022, 02:10:54 am »
"If you mean those who love all civilizations (one of which just so happens to be Western civilization) and therefore want to preserve them all (including Western civilization) for the sake of diversity, these could be described as relativist. But anyone who loves Western civilization more than other civilizations should not be described as relativist since this requires comparative evaluation of content."

I think the former group is what I meant, since I have not seen this group say that Western Civilization is necessarily the best, but that things from Western Civilization are good, only we should not value Western achievements any more than non-Western achievements (or alternatively, that we should value non-Western achievements as much as Western achievements).

rp

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Re: Communism
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2022, 09:30:50 am »
Russophile YouTuber Jimmy Dore pushes MAGACommunism:
https://youtu.be/tBGgLxxkLrM

rp

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Re: Communism
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2022, 10:11:36 pm »
Returning to this point:
Perhaps not. If siding with us or siding with rightists were the only two options, some might side with us. Specifically, those who love Western civilization more than they hate "white" supremacy will side with rightists, whereas those who hate "white" supremacy more than they love Western civilization will side with us.

Could we expect the former group to have relatively more Aryan blood compared to the latter group?