Author Topic: Western Democracy  (Read 612 times)

guest5

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Western Democracy
« on: October 31, 2020, 12:55:07 am »
Millennials are losing faith in democracy, study suggests
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Satisfaction was bad in the United States, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa, France, Australia and the United Kingdom, the study found.
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Young people are less satisfied with democracy and more disillusioned than at any other time in the past century, especially in Europe, North America, Africa and Australia, a study by the University of Cambridge has found.
Millennials, or those born between 1981 and 1996, are more disillusioned than Generation X, those born between 1965 and 1981, or Baby Boomers born between 1944 and 1964 and the Interwar Generation of 1918-1943.
"Across the world, younger generations are not only more dissatisfied with democratic performance than the old, but also more discontented than previous generations at similar life stages," the Cambridge study found.

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The picture is bad in the United States, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa, France, Australia and the United Kingdom.

But satisfaction has increased in Germany, South Korea and many of the post-Communist countries of Central and Eastern Europe.
The main reason behind the disillusion with democracy among young people was inequality of wealth and income, the report said, citing figures showing that Millennials make up around a quarter of the US population but hold just 3% of the wealth. Baby Boomers held 21% of the wealth at the same age.

The study suggested that the populist challenge to mainstream, "establishment" politics could actually help improve democratic engagement by shocking moderate parties and leaders into reversing the decay.
The Cambridge Centre for the Future of Democracy delved into data from more than 4.8 million respondents collected across 160 countries between 1973 and 2020.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/20/world/millennial-democracy-satisfaction-intl-scli/index.html

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90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2020, 03:09:56 am »
Imagine living in a country where we didn't have to go through the stress of elections once every few years. How relaxing would that be? How much more time for ourselves we would have?

Imagine furthermore all the money saved from not having to do any election campaigning, which could instead be spent on actually helping those in need.




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90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2020, 11:32:59 pm »
Mainstream journalists are finally starting to get it:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/democrats-look-trump-voters-wonder-000638494.html

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The Trump victory in 2016 was blurry, and therefore relatively easy for people to distance themselves from larger meaning. Hillary Clinton, the logic went, had singular vulnerabilities. There was Russian interference. Lots of Trump voters likely didn’t think he was going to win but were eager to use their votes to send a message of protest to the establishment of both parties. Plenty of people regarded his persona as a flamboyant put-on, and assumed he would embrace moderation and restraint in the event he was invested with real responsibility.

The 2020 results remain blurry but the central question on the table in this election was vividly clear. Is Trump’s norm-shattering governing style OK with you? Former president Barack Obama framed it sharply in at the summer convention: “That’s what’s at stake right now—our democracy.”

Here is an uncomfortable reality for Obama and anyone who agreed with his words. Trump is on track to grow his popular vote total by millions of people, not one of whom could have been under any illusions about what they were voting for. Unlike 2016, there is no way to dismiss this as a flukish accident of democracy, or an illegitimate manipulation of democracy. His support was a robust expression of democracy.

We have been saying this from the beginning. It is obvious that Trump could never have become head of state if he had been born in China. What made it possible for him to become head of state in the US?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 11:34:36 pm by 90sRetroFan »

rp

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2020, 11:28:18 am »
"Imagine living in a country where we didn't have to go through the stress of elections once every few years. How relaxing would that be?"
The stress levels are unbearable. Especially given what's at stake this time around.

guest5

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2020, 01:09:53 pm »
$14 billion spent on election instead of people – Wolff
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US presidential candidates have spent $14 billion on this election cycle, making it the most expensive election in history. But more money will be poured into new legal battles over state recounts for both Joe Biden and Donald Trump's campaigns. The markets are responding to this uncertainty. Economics professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst Richard Wolff breaks it down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5FNqYpfBPM

guest5

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2020, 11:56:24 pm »
Why Socrates Hated Democracy
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We’re used to thinking hugely well of democracy. But interestingly, one of the wisest people who ever lived, Socrates, had deep suspicions of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLJBzhcSWTk&t=13s

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Jason Matson
6 days ago
Fast forward to today & his pessimism is clearly justified

Starling

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2020, 03:08:24 am »
                    It's not a democracy, one of those little fish is the leader.


« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 03:10:03 am by Starling »
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90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2020, 10:24:34 pm »
OLD CONTENT

"Why is democracy still revered among leftists?"

Because the False Left suffers from severe cognitive dissonance, which I believe was deliberately engineered back in the mid-20th century. I think a lot of it has to do with the case for decolonization being made in terms of: "the colonized populations attaining democracy". Most colonies wanting independence made the fatal mistake (often under the disingenuous advice of Freemasons, including plenty of Jews) of arguing for independence by pointing out that colonial rule meant that the colonial subjects (having no suffrage) were being denied democracy. This of course was moronic: if democracy was what they wanted, they should have demanded empire citizenship (and hence suffrage) for all colonial subjects (thereby transforming the colonial empire into an ordinary empire), not independence. But the colonial powers cunningly accepted this stupid argument and gave the colonies (superficial) independence, thereby linking anti-colonialism (what started as a leftist concern) with democracy (a feature of Western civilization) in the common mind, thus effectively perverting mainstream anti-colonialism into a pro-Western(!) movement, along the lines of: "The colonized populations can become better Westerners by becoming voters in independent countries than by remaining as non-voting colonial subjects!"

"Why is there still a negative connotation associated with autocracy?"

Because False Leftists have cut themselves off from ancient thinking. They shallowly associate historical autocracies with liberal words such as "privileged" or "entitled", instead of seeing in them the only hope for ever truly achieving leftist causes (which is all that is meant by ancient non-Westerners once believing absolute monarchs to be living gods).

"How do we distinguish from those who make pro democratic arguments with subversive motives (Jews), and those who do so simply because they are unradicalized (Aryans)?"

We do not need to do so. We can debate against both categories in the same way. As I keep saying, a debate is not about trying to persuade your opponent that you are correct, but about trying to show the audience the inferiority of your opponent compared to yourself, thus winning over the audience. Whether the inferiority of your opponent is caused by subversive motives or by sheer delusion need be of no concern to you.

(By the way, I would not use the term "Aryan" to describe anyone who is pro-democracy. Farms are run not by majority opinion but by expert opinion. It is indeed our contention that autocracy originated as part of the Neolithic Revolution.)

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/aryan-monarchism/
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rp

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2020, 02:57:50 am »
Just listened to this gem again:
John Alan Martinson Jr - Monarchism The Last Bastille Podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhoYbdVMg9M
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90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2020, 02:49:31 am »
Now that mainstream leftists are finally able to accuse Trump of a coup, False Leftists are once again completely screwing up their framing of the scenario. They accuse Trump of being anti-democracy while portraying Trump critics as pro-democracy, as if only pro-democracy people could oppose Trump.

Firstly, is Trump anti-democracy? No. Trump (who loves being popular) would surely prefer to have won the election cleanly than have to resort to trying to invalidate the election results. It is only because the results did not go Trump's way that he is falling back on invalidating the election results in an attempt to retain power. And even then Trump is claiming to be the winner of the election, in other words he is still reinforcing the notion that winning the election is what should determine leadership; he is merely lying about who won. In other words, Trump is fundamentally pro-democracy, but just in a dishonest way. (In contrast, an actual anti-democrat would argue that it is wrong for popularity to determine leadership.)

Secondly, is it logically necessary to be pro-democracy in order to oppose Trump? No. If we could travel back in time to end democracy in 2016 and let Obama directly choose his own successor (who would at least not have been Trump), we would do so rather than let Trump win in 2016. False Leftists probably would not, but this only proves that if anything we oppose Trump more strongly than False Leftists do, since False Leftists would prefer to maintain democracy than keep Trump away from power.

Which brings me onto the main point. We are in this mess right now because of democracy. It is because the US has elections in the first place that it opens itself up to the possibility of election results being disputed. If the US did not have elections at all, no one can claim the leader at any time is illegitimate on account of cheating because there is no space left open for cheating to begin with. You can like or dislike Xi, but no one can claim he became the leader of China by cheating. It is only in countries with elections that the situation can arise where the apparent election loser can claim the apparent election winner cheated. To focus on whether or not the claim is true is already missing to point. On this particular occasion (Trump claiming Biden cheated) the claim is obviously false. But on another occasion (e.g. Abrams claiming Kemp cheated) the claim may be true. The point, however, is that the belief in popularity as the determinant of suitability for leadership is what permits such claims - true or false - to be made at any time someone doesn't like the results. As True Leftists, we should be focusing on fixing the system so that neither cheating nor allegations of cheating are any longer possible. Eliminating elections is not the only ingredient of the fix, but is by far the most obvious.

Autocracy was preferred by the ancients (including throughout the New World before Western civilization showed up) precisely to avoid the situation like the one we are currently experiencing. This elementary wisdom is what we should be getting back to.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 03:08:49 am by 90sRetroFan »

Prite

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2020, 06:11:54 am »
I think you should see how "democracy" and "populism" have similar hanzi in Chinese.

Democracy is translated to be
民主.

Populism is translated to be
民粹主义.

Japanese and Korean just borrow populism from English.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2021, 11:09:44 pm »
False Leftists never stopped being Westerners. They fundamentally subscribe to the narrative that the invention and spread of democracy represents historical progress, thus (as avowed progressives themselves) they have no choice but to support democracy. Herein is also the inherent self-contradiction within False Leftist minds. They may outwardly reject the claim of Western superiority, yet by being pro-democracy (among other attitudes) inwardly affirm their actual belief in Western superiority, given that Western civilization was the only civilization in all of world history with a significant democratic (or, more broadly, anti-monarchist) tradition. But instead of confronting this self-contradiction with intellectual honesty, False Leftists attempt to dig up (at best obscure and at worst illusory) historical blips - never enough to be considered a tradition - of vaguely electoral activity in non-Western civilizations in order to bolster a thoroughly contrived claim (which neither rightists nor True Leftists believe) that "all civilizations were progressing towards democracy all along", instead of admitting that the prevalence of democracy worldwide today is (as rightists and True Leftists academically agree on) almost entirely an effect of Westernization from the colonial era onwards, and would never have occurred absent the colonial era. Because if they were to admit this, they - as fans of democracy - would have to be grateful to colonialism (ie. become rightists!).

So here it what is comes down to:

A) "Western civilization is not superior to all other civilizations."
B) "Democracy is superior to autocracy."

Challenge for False Leftists: PICK ONE. Because if you believe B), you logically cannot believe A).
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 11:14:05 pm by 90sRetroFan »

guest5

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2021, 11:54:37 pm »
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A) "Western civilization is not superior to all other civilizations."
B) "Democracy is superior to autocracy."

Challenge for False Leftists: PICK ONE. Because if you believe B), you logically cannot believe A).

I was also considering creating a similar meme for False-Leftists:

Which would you prefer?:
A) A 10 year Malcolm X dictatorship, at the end of which Malcolm chooses his own successor
B) Another 4 year Trump presidency at the end of which you vote against Trumpists for the next successor

Or:

A) A 10 year Abraham Lincoln dictatorship
B) 4 years of Trump as president

Doesn't quite have the effect of your argument and choice logic yet though, still thinking about it....

Killthebank

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2021, 11:59:11 pm »
Not sure if this belongs in this thread but:

https://www.polygon.com/2016/3/15/11231850/ubisoft-editorial-user-research-scientists-fun

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134870/focus_groups_testing_and_.php

These articles are about using focus groups to create video games. This is akin to developing a game democratically instead of the project manager and his team of experts in their respective field (programming, artwork, level design, etc.) This is the reason the quality of video games has dropped; they are boring and empty. That and the fact that the publishers want to maximize profit so they try to please everyone and end up satisfying no one.

I like how the second article says Nintendo snubbed their focus groups. They've almost always know what they're doing.
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90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2021, 01:44:42 am »
Good analogy!

Just as I keep telling people who dislike an autocratic country to simply emigrate instead of trying to change it into a democratic country, the same advice applies to gamers: if you dislike a particular game, just don't buy it, and buy a different one instead! The artistic duty of game developers is to stay true to their original vision for the game, irrespective of whether the game is a commercial success or not.

"I like how the second article says Nintendo snubbed their focus groups. They've almost always know what they're doing."

At least until the N64 and subsequent 3D consoles.....

Here we have Nintendo being influenced not by popular opinion, but by (Western) futurists who claimed that games must go 3D in order to keep pace (why, FFS??) with the computational power to handle 3D. In short, Nintendo avoided the democracy trap but fell into the progressivism trap.

So listening to expert opinion over majority opinion is just the first step; next comes the challenge of deciding which experts to listen to.....

(By the way, if you want to talk about 2D games, please feel welcome to do so here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/ )
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 01:58:11 am by 90sRetroFan »