Author Topic: Western Democracy  (Read 6034 times)

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2021, 03:53:33 pm »
Less than 50% of Millennials are "satisfied" with democracy. Will Gen Z take the climate crisis seriously enough to end it? If their goal is to tackle the climate crisis, then the means will have to be able to accomplish that goal--which necessitates getting rid of democracy.

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‘No point in anything else’: Gen Z members flock to climate careers

Colleges offer support as young people aim to devote their lives to battling the crisis
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/06/gen-z-climate-change-careers-jobs

Other good news:

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Young people are less satisfied with democracy and more disillusioned than at any other time in the past century, especially in Europe, North America, Africa and Australia, a study by the University of Cambridge has found.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/millennials-are-losing-faith-in-democracy-study-suggests/ar-BB1acXI7


Scroll down to figure 4! Averaged across the globe, all age brackets of the Millennial generation are more dissatisfied with democracy than satisfied.
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A constant country sample is used in each age bracket. Each generational cohort is less satisfied with democracy than the prior cohort was at the same age in life. Contrary to the view that generational differences are merely a “life-cycle effect” – with people becoming less critical of democracy as they grow older – in fact, younger cohorts have become more dissatisfied as they have aged
https://www.cam.ac.uk/system/files/youth_and_satisfaction_with_democracy.pdf

Even more good news (note this article is from an entire year before the 2016 election, so Trump's corruption wouldn't have impacted the polling):

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In our research we have found that citizens give less and less importance to living in a democracy. They have increasingly negative views about key democratic institutions. Most worryingly of all, they are more and more open to illiberal alternatives. Americans aren’t just souring on particular institutions or particular politicians. To a surprising degree, they have begun to sour on liberal democracy itself.
[...]
Political scientists have long known that "government legitimacy," or the popularity of particular administrations, is going down. But many of them have argued that "regime legitimacy," or citizens’ attachment to democracy as a political system, is as strong as ever. Our research shows that this is just not true: Attachment to democracy has fallen over time, and from one generation to the next.
https://www.vox.com/polyarchy/2015/12/18/9360663/is-democracy-in-trouble





Pre-Trump(!) less than 10% of Americans had any faith in their government. Why haven't we gotten rid of democracy yet?

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2021, 10:54:17 pm »
"all age brackets of the Millennial generation are more dissatisfied with democracy than satisfied."

I fear this count includes rightists who are dissatisfied with democracy only because they are dissatisfied with the effects of Demographic Blueshift:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/demographic-blueshift/

They may be the ones most supportive of:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/news/voter-suppression/

A better estimate of dissatisfaction with democracy for the correct (ie. leftist) reasons might be found by looking at only anti-democrats within the environmentalist movement, for example.

guest55

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2021, 02:19:20 pm »
WARNING!: Be prepared to mentally ingest lunacy if you listen to this clip:

Believe Extremist Christian Nationalist When They Tell You Who They Are!!!
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Jesse plays voicemails from two different callers about the radical nutter-butter Christian pastors who railed against democratic values – one of them literally calling democracy a DISEASE!


Not saying that these "Christian Nationalists" Jesse refers to in the above clip are actually "Christians" or "Nationalists", but Jesse obviously lacks any clarity on this subject. (No surprise there!) I would say any person who renounces democracy is closer to Jesus than those who promote it! DUH!!!

Who was it that VOTED to have Jesus crucified FFS!?!?!?

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Barabbas, in the New Testament, a prisoner mentioned in all four Gospels who was chosen by the crowd, over Jesus Christ, to be released by Pontius Pilate in a customary pardon before the feast of Passover.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Barabbas-biblical-figure

The "majority" clearly hated Jesus too! How could you hate someone like Jesus, Jesse!?

Why did the crowds shout, “Crucify Him!” when Pilate wanted to release Jesus?
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When the Sanhedrin brought Jesus before the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, Pilate could not find any fault in Jesus, and he said so three times (Luke 23:4, 14–15, 22). Late in the trial, Pilate sought a way to free Jesus (John 19:12). It was a Passover festival custom that the governor release a prisoner to the people, so, in a ploy to appease the crowd of Jewish leaders who had gathered and to secure Jesus’ release, Pilate allowed them to choose between a convicted criminal named Barabbas and Jesus. Instead of choosing Jesus, as Pilate had hoped, the crowd chose Barabbas for release. Shocked that they would free a hardened criminal, Pilate asked, “What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?” (Mark 15:12). The crowd cried out, “Crucify him!” (verse 13).
https://www.gotquestions.org/Crucify-Him.html

The majority in Jesus' time was clearly EVIL and democracy is a "tyranny of the MAJORITY" FFS!!!

Even after the Trump presidency Jesse Dollemore still cannot bring himself to accept reality!!!

guest55

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Gavin Newsom's Recall Victory Was NOT A Repudiation Of Trump
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Liberal writers were quick to claim that Gavin Newsom's defeat of Larry Elder in California was somehow a repudiation of Donald Trump, but the reality is actually far less thrilling. Newsom survived a recall in a state where there are almost twice as many registered Democrats as there are Republicans, and there was no clear evidence of actual corruption to pin on Newsom. It isn't that hard, and it really isn't worth pontificating on for too long, as Ring of Fire's Farron Cousins explains.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2021, 02:46:53 am »
While watching this video:



it suddenly occurred to me that if anti-homophobia is "sexual anarchy", then homophobia is in fact sexual democracy. The majority of people are "heterosexual" (as a consequence of natural selection), and democracy means that the minority must accept the majority preference as more valid, hence homophobia. And indeed Western civilization is to blame for spreading both democracy and homophobia worldwide during the colonial era, as we have previously covered:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/homophobia-is-not-american/

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/msg7373/#msg7373

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/social-decolonization/msg7480/#msg7480

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2021, 01:24:05 am »
Democracy self-optimizes to the point where the outcome of nearly every election hinges on a small handfull of "swing" districts, and where nearly every legislative session is dominated by a few individuals who have all the bargaining power.

At this point, how could anyone still believe that corporate-funded politicians, pushing corporate-written policies, elected in a pure popularity contest by a selfish majority of voters is a tolerable system of government?

I think this is why people like Alexander Hamilton wanted the President and upper house of the legislature to serve for life (and even the original US Senate was chosen by state legislatures rather than popular election for over 100 years)... People in the government shouldn't be chosen in a popularity contest like a friggin' prom queen. They should be appointed and serve based on merit. The hyper-competitiveness of election cycles and inability of the government to be more powerful than corporations have ensured politicians care more about the corporations funding their re-election campaigns than what's beneficial for society as a whole.

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In recent days, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) has told associates that he is considering leaving the Democratic Party if President Joe Biden and Democrats on Capitol Hill do not agree to his demand to cut the size of the social infrastructure bill from $3.5 trillion to $1.75 trillion, according to people who have heard Manchin discuss this. Manchin has said that if this were to happen, he would declare himself an “American Independent.” And he has devised a detailed exit strategy for his departure.
[...]
He told associates that he has a two-step plan for exiting the party. First, he would send a letter to Sen. Chuck Schumer, the top Senate Democrat, removing himself from the Democratic leadership of the Senate. (He is vice chair of the Senate Democrats’ policy and communications committee.) Manchin hopes that would send a signal. He would then wait and see if that move had any impact on the negotiations. After about a week, he said, he would change his voter registration from Democrat to independent.
[...]
Manchin told associates that he was prepared to initiate his exit plan earlier this week and had mentioned the possibility to Biden. But he was encouraged by the conversations with Sanders and top Democrats that occurred at the start of the week and did not yet see a reason to take this step. Still, he has informed associates that because he is so out of sync with the Democratic Party, he believes it is likely he will leave the party by November 2022.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/10/senator-joe-manchin-democratic-party-exit-plan-biden-infrastructure-deal-exclusive/

guest55

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2021, 02:58:26 am »
Purely for entertainment: (136k likes  :D)

…but the people are retarded



90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2021, 01:08:47 pm »
« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 01:10:40 pm by 90sRetroFan »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2021, 01:31:14 am »
Democracy is bad not because it is controlled by money, but because it is controlled by popularity:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/n-j-truck-driver-notches-180029349.html

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A N.J. Truck Driver Notches 'Stunning' Election Win After Spending $153 on His Campaign
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In one of the more remarkable upsets of Tuesday's elections, a New Jersey truck driver who spent less than $200 on his campaign unseated a longtime state Senate president.

While early vote tabulations led many outlets to report that Democrat Steve Sweeney had won reelection in New Jersey's 3rd Legislative District, continued counts showed that a political newcomer — Edward Durr, the Republican nominee — was actually leading by 4 points, or a little more than 2,000 votes.
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"It is stunning and shocking and I cannot figure it out," the state Senate Majority Leader told the AP.

I can:



Zea_mays

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2021, 05:41:51 am »
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A national poll of people ages 18 to 29 found that most young Americans said that they believed the county’s democracy is either “in trouble” or has "failed."

Specifically, 52 percent of respondents said that they held these beliefs, including 39 percent who said that the U.S. is a “democracy in trouble” and 13 percent who said that the country is a “failed democracy,” the poll from the Institute of Politics at Harvard Kennedy School released on Wednesday found.   

Twenty-seven percent of the respondents said that they viewed the country as “somewhat functioning democracy,” and just 7 percent said that the U.S. is a "healthy democracy."

When considering the results along party lines, more Republicans viewed the state of democracy in the country as in trouble or failed than did Democrats or unaffiliated young people, the survey found.

A total of 70 percent of Republicans said that they held this view, including 47 percent who said that the U.S. democracy is in trouble and 23 percent who said that it has failed. Among Democrats, 45 percent said that the country's democracy is in trouble or has failed, and 51 percent of independent and unaffiliated young people had the same responses.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/583736-one-half-of-young-americans-in-new-poll-say-democracy-in-us-is-either


Note that more rightists think democracy in the US has failed than leftists. (How the hell is that even possible??? We had a rightist coup attempt that nearly succeeded and leftists think it's not a big deal??? That speaks volumes to the effectiveness of propaganda--both propaganda aimed towards rightists to rile them up and propaganda aimed towards leftists to make them complacent.)

People's faith in democracy and trust in institutions has been steadily decreasing for generations, and there's no reason that trend is going to reverse.

So, the question is: who will replace democracy first, rightists or leftists? We need to be hammering the alternatives to democracy to all the people who believe it's failed.

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2021, 06:05:57 am »
Professional liar and coup-organizer Elliott Abrams would rather have democratic governments which r*pe and massacre civilians than non-democratic governments:



How long until leftists are finally able to decouple "human rights" from democracy? ...And how long until they realize the very concept of "rights" will forever fail to actually uphold the liberties they want to guarantee?

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2021, 09:22:05 pm »
"Note that more rightists think democracy in the US has failed than leftists. (How the hell is that even possible???"

"Non-whites"/women voting in sufficient numbers to affect election outcomes = failed democracy according to rightists. An increasing number of rightists openly call for prohibiting "non-whites", as well as women, from voting.

"So, the question is: who will replace democracy first, rightists or leftists?"

To be fair, most rightists seem to trust democracy with only "white" men voting more than they trust autocracy. So, strictly speaking, rightists do not want to replace democracy, but rather to end universal suffrage and hence return to what can accurately be called traditional democracy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Origins

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excluded women, slaves, foreigners (μέτοικοι / métoikoi), and youths below the age of military service.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2021, 08:37:14 pm »
Because Hungary is democratic, Orban came to power in Hungary. Because France is also democratic, Orban can also influence who takes power in France at no extra cost to Hungary:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/frances-macron-pay-tribute-orban-112040155.html

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BUDAPEST/PARIS (Reuters) - President Emmanuel Macron said on Monday France was willing to "work together for Europe" with Hungary despite the countries' political differences, striking a conciliatory note as Paris prepares to take over the European Union's presidency.
...
Macron wants other EU states to support the priorities he has set for France's six-month presidency of the bloc starting in January, including better protection and control of EU borders.
...
Orban has in the past two months received far-right leaders Marine Le Pen and Eric Zemmour, who are candidates in France's presidential election next year in which Macron is expected to seek a second term.

Both praised Orban's opposition to immigration, and Zemmour hailed his defence of "his country's identity, sovereignty and borders."

A stronger country being pressured to follow a weaker country's unethical policies is something that only happens under democracy.

Zea_mays

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Re: Western Democracy
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2021, 08:41:27 pm »
Here are some quotes from the Constitutional Convention of 1787, where the US Constitution was debated and later accepted.

Many of the framers of the Constitution understood very clearly that democracy was an oppressive system of government, but ironically, they had to acquiesce to the tyrannical will of the majority of citizens and went through with ratifying it anyway.

(Also...their "check and balance" in the Legislative branch against unrestrained democracy? The Senate... Which has been one of the most corrupt branches of the government for literal centuries.)


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Our chief danger arises from the democratic parts of our constitutions. It is a maxim which I hold incontrovertible, that the powers of government exercised by the people swallows up the other branches. None of the constitutions have provided sufficient checks against the democracy.

-Edmund Randolph.

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The evils we experience flow from the excess of democracy. The people do not want virtue; but are the dupes of pretended patriots. In Massts. it has been fully confirmed by experience that they are daily misled into the most baneful measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute.

-Elbridge Gerry.

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We are not indeed constituting a British Government, but a more dangerous monarchy, an elective one. We are introducing a new principle into our system, and not necessary as in the British Govt. where the Executive has greater rights to defend. Do gentlemen mean to pave the way to hereditary Monarchy? Do they flatter themselves that the people will ever consent to such an innovation? If they do I venture to tell them, they are mistaken. The people never will consent. And do gentlemen consider the danger of delay, and the still greater danger of a a rejection not for a moment but forever, of the plan which shall be proposed to them. Notwithstanding the oppressions & injustice experienced among us from democracy; the genius of the people is in favor of it, and the genius of the people must be consulted. He could not but consider the federal system as in effect dissolved by the appointment of this Convention to devise a better one. And do gentlemen look forward to the dangerous interval between the extinction of an old, and the establishment of a new Governmt. and to the scenes of confusion which may ensue. He hoped that nothing like a monarchy would ever be attempted in this Country. A hatred to its oppressions had carried the people through the late Revolution. Will it not be eno’ to enable the Executive to suspend offensive laws, till they shall be coolly revised, and the objections to them overruled by a greater majority than was required in the first instance. He never could agree to give up all the rights of the people to a single Magistrate. If more than one had been fixed on, greater powers might have been entrusted to the Executive. He hoped this attempt to give such powers would have its weight hereafter 〈as an argument〉 for increasing the number of the Executive.

-notes on George Mason's speech.

(Even though Mason acknowledged a democratic government was more dangerous than the British monarchy which had oppressed Americans, he thought it was ok for democracy to be implemented anyway...)


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This was the only defence agst. the inconveniences of democracy consistent with the democratic form of Govt. All civilized Societies would be divided into different Sects, Factions, & interests, as they happened to consist of rich & poor, debtors & creditors, the landed the manufacturing, the commercial interests, the inhabitants of this district, or that district, the followers of this political leader or that political leader, the disciples of this religious sect or that religious sect. In all cases where a majority are united by a common interest or passion, the rights of the minority are in danger. What motives are to restrain them? A prudent regard to the maxim that honesty is the best policy is found by experience to be as little regarded by bodies of men as by individuals. Respect for character is always diminished in proportion to the number among whom the blame or praise is to be divided. Conscience, the only remaining tie is known to be inadequate in individuals: In large numbers, little is to be expected from it. Besides, Religion itself may become a motive to persecution & oppression. — These observations are verified by the Histories of every Country antient & modern.
[...]
The lesson we are to draw from the whole is that where a majority are united by a common sentiment and have an opportunity, the rights of the minor party become insecure. In a Republican Govt. the Majority if united have always an opportunity. The only remedy is to enlarge the sphere, & thereby divide the community into so great a number of interests & parties, that in the 1st. place a majority will not be likely at the same moment to have a common interest separate from that of the whole or of the minority; and in the 2d. place, that in case they shd. have such an interest, they may not be apt to unite in the pursuit of it. It was incumbent on us then to try this remedy, and with that view to frame a republican system on such a scale & in such a form as will controul all the evils wch. have been experienced.

-James Madison's argument in defense of democracy

(Spoiler alert, this "remedy" has failed. Can we revise our system of government to one which actually is able to stop oppression now?)


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The error was now seen by every one. The members most tenacious of republicanism, he observed, were as loud as any in declaiming agst. the vices of democracy. ... Give all power to the many, they will oppress the few. Give all power to the few they will oppress the many. Both therefore ought to have power, that each may defend itself agst. the other. ... No temporary Senate will have firmness en’o’ to answer the purpose. ... They suppose Seven years a sufficient period to give the Senate an adequate firmness, from not duly considering the amazing violence & turbulence of the democratic spirit. When a great object of Govt. is pursued, which seizes the popular passions, they spread like wild fire, and become irresistable. ... As to the Executive, it seemed to be admitted that no good one could be established on Republican principles. Was not this giving up the merits of the question; for can there be a good Govt. without a good Executive. The English model was the only good one on this subject. The Hereditary interest of the King was so interwoven with that of the Nation, and his personal emoluments so great, that he was placed above the danger of being corrupted from abroad — and at the same time was both sufficiently independent and sufficiently controuled, to answer the purpose of the institution at home. one of the weak sides of Republics was their being liable to foreign influence & corruption. Men of little character, acquiring great power become easily the tools of intermedling neibours.

-notes on Alexander Hamilton's speech

Alexander Hamilton believed the President, Senate, and judges should serve for life "during periods of good behavior". But he was Eurocentric and admired the British system of government, and therefore was still trapped within the democratic mindset...

After the Constitutional Convention accepted the Constitution and sent it to the state governments to debate on, Hamilton was one of the Constitution's primary defenders in the series of essays called The Federalist Papers, despite his own proposals for government being rejected...

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But is this a Republican Govt. it will be asked? Yes, if all the Magistrates are appointed, and vacancies are filled, by the people, or a process of election originating with the people.
[...]
II The Assembly to consist of persons elected by the people to serve for three years.

III. The Senate to consist of persons elected to serve during good behaviour; their election to be made by electors chosen for that purpose by the people: in order to this the States to be divided into election districts. On the death, removal or resignation of any Senator his place to be filled out of the district from which he came.

If local community members are allowed to nominate individuals for vacancies, and give their reasoning as to why their nominee is qualified, then would this not satisfy all the positive things that "representative" democracies claim they wish to accomplish? Appointments would of course be made by a governor or qualified committee, who would vet the individuals nominated by the general public, as well as be able to nominate candidates themselves if the public does not nominate anyone who is qualified.

I think I read a comment by a communist somewhere who claimed this was similar to how the "Democratic People's Republic" of North Korea theoretically appoints local government officials?

Voting for qualified electors who then chose politicians is the original purpose of the Electoral College. Originally, people did not vote for the president at all. They only voted for electors, who were knowledgeable individuals in the local community, who then deliberated amongst themselves to pick the most qualified individual to be president. This "check and balance" against democracy has also failed, since the electors are just a ceremonial holdover who are beholden to their state's popular vote (which has the consequence of amplifying Republican power)...

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But 〈he〉 sees the Union dissolving or already dissolved — he sees evils operating in the States which must soon cure the people of their fondness for democracies — he sees that a great progress has been already made & is still going on in the public mind. He thinks therefore that the people will in time be unshackled from their prejudices; and whenever that happens, they will themselves not be satisfied at stopping where the plan of Mr. R. wd. place them, but be ready to go as far at least as he proposes.

-notes on Alexander Hamilton's speech

After 250 years of democratic failures and multiple bouts of "dissolving", perhaps the people are almost ready to unshackle their pro-democratic prejudices and accept an autocratic form of government which actually upholds justice? Less than 100 years ago Germany and many other nations were fed up enough with democracy to try something different. In fact, many in the US were about ready to do the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_dictatorship#Media_support


Maybe if Hamilton wasn't such a Britophile elitist, his plan would have gained more traction:

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I believe the British government forms the best model the world ever produced, and such has been its progress in the minds of the many, that this truth gradually gains ground. This government has for its object public strength and individual security. It is said with us to be unattainable. If it was once formed it would maintain itself. All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first are the rich and well born, the other the mass of the people. The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true in fact. The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct, permanent share in the government. They will check the unsteadiness of the second, and as they cannot receive any advantage by a change, they therefore will ever maintain good government. Can a democratic assembly, who annually revolve in the mass of the people, be supposed steadily to pursue the public good? Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy. Their turbulent and uncontrouling disposition requires checks. ... It is admitted that you cannot have a good executive upon a democratic plan. See the excellency of the British executive — He is placed above temptation — He can have no distinct interests from the public welfare. Nothing short of such an executive can be efficient.
[...]
But the people are gradually ripening in their opinions of government — they begin to be tired of an excess of democracy


...Hamilton was so close.

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Gentlemen say we need to be rescued from the democracy. But what the means proposed?

A democratic assembly is to be checked by a democratic senate, and both these by a democratic chief magistrate.

The end will not be answered — the means will not be equal to the object.

It will, therefore, be feeble and inefficient.

-excerpt from Hamilton's notes on his speech

90sRetroFan

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Re: Eric Zemmour
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2022, 09:10:17 pm »
Zemmour the democrat:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-minority-propaganda-french-schools-172722683.html

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No to "minority propaganda" in French schools, far-right's Zemmour says

PARIS (Reuters) - French far-right candidate Eric Zemmour on Monday attacked anti-racist and anti-homophobia groups in schools, saying they were brainwashing pupils, as he urged a return to a more conservative education system.
...
"Over the past 40 years, our children have been indoctrinated," Zemmour, who has been convicted for inciting racial hatred, told reporters. "Schools cannot be the place where LGBT and anti-racism ideologies brainwash our children."

This is why leftism is incompatible with democracy. How much longer will it take False Leftists see something so obvious?

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Zemmour, 63, is socially conservative, against gay marriage, and has said his presidential bid was aimed at "saving France from decadence.

Also Zemmour:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/non-aryan-infidelity/msg9944/#msg9944
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 09:12:16 pm by 90sRetroFan »