Author Topic: Leftist vs rightist moral circles  (Read 3188 times)

90sRetroFan

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Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« on: July 22, 2020, 12:33:32 am »
Our enemies report:

https://nationalvanguard.org/2020/07/psychology-liberals-care-more-about-rocks-than-their-own-families/



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Study suggests that leftists have an almost precisely inverted scale of values compared to rightists. Instead of a hierarchy of concern with one’s own family, nation, and race highest on the scale, leftists place abstractions like “all objects in the universe” — including such things as rocks — or “all mankind” — in first place.

THE IMAGE ABOVE shows two “heatmaps” indicating highest moral allocation of value by ideology, in section 3a of this group of studies. Source data are provided as a Source Data file in the original article. The highest value on the heatmap scale is 20 units for liberals, and 12 units for conservatives. Moral circle rings, from inner to outer, are described as follows: (1) all of your immediate family, (2) all of your extended family, (3) all of your closest friends, (4) all of your friends (including distant ones), (5) all of your acquaintances, (6) all people you have ever met, (7) all people in your country, (8) all people on your continent, (9) all people on all continents, (10) all mammals, (11) all amphibians, reptiles, mammals, fish, and birds, (12) all animals on earth including paramecia and amoebae, (13) all animals in the universe, including alien lifeforms, (14) all living things in the universe including plants and trees, (15) all natural things in the universe including inert entities such as rocks, (16) all things in existence.

At least rocks do not initiate violence, unlike our families.

Living things do have the potential to be more heroic than rocks, as they can in theory do retaliatory violence while refraining from initiated violence, but in reality very few succeed in this, and even then retaliation was only required in the first place because someone else initiated violence. A truly ideal world is not one in which heroes triumph, but one in which heroes are unnecessary because there are no villains.

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90sRetroFan

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2020, 04:25:56 am »
OLD CONTENT

www.counter-currents.com/2020/06/white-nationalism-for-dummies/

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Another myth that must be addressed is that of “hate.” In truth, white nationalism is about love. Love of history, love of culture, love of family and community. Love of those who share our values and sensibilities. To be sure, there is nothing inherently wrong with hate. Hate is an emotion, as valid as any other. Sometimes hate is a productive emotion, if the energy is channeled usefully. If I discovered a child being sexually abused by a ****, hate for the sick and perverted would be much more useful than empathy. Empathy often leads to permissiveness, whereas hate can lead to justice, when it is rationally wielded through ideological self-control.

Isn't this just circular logic?

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In the case of Jews and Asians, they’ve been elevated to elite positions in our society that often displace legacy white Americans. In most cases, their intelligence and work ethic warrants a modicum of success, but despite their economic prosperity and status, they are still allowed to claim that they’re oppressed by whites. Instead of pointing out this hypocrisy, our white elected officials grovel and prostrate themselves to appease them rather than stand up for the white people they should be representing.

And what legacy white Americans are they replacing? They never answer this, because most of them are dead oil tycoons, plantation owners, or statesmen. Regardless, the point is that this is not different from the rampant need of nepotism. They don't want to replace this horrible system in its entirety, they just want their "tribe" to have overall privilege. (which they already. still have?)

---

"Isn't this just circular logic?"

Worse, it is just sloppy reasoning. For example:

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If I discovered a child being sexually abused by a ****, hate for the sick and perverted would be much more useful than empathy. Empathy often leads to permissiveness, whereas hate can lead to justice

This makes it sound like we must choose between empathy and hate. This is untrue. The psychologically accurate description is that we hate the oppressor because we empathize with the victim, and indeed the more we empathize with the victim, the more we will hate the oppressor. Therefore empathy does not lead to permissiveness, unless we bizarrely empathize with the oppressor instead of with the victim. But the oppressor, in order to be psychologically able to oppress, had to lack empathy for the victim in the first place. Therefore it was still lack of empathy that permitted the oppression to begin with.

Our ethical duty is to start with empathy for everyone, and then cease empathy towards those who first ceased their empathy towards their victims. This is just Ahimsa reworked: non-empathy is violence, and initiated violence demands retaliatory violence.

But of course rightists cannot say this, since that would justify non-empathy for (and retaliatory violence towards) colonialists (the indisputable initiators of violence during the colonial era), which contradicts their tribalist teaching of siding with "whites" against "non-whites" even when "whites" are in the ethical wrong, which is what they really mean by this part:

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white nationalism is about love. Love of history, love of culture, love of family and community.

Thus the rightist has to make it sound like empathy itself is the problem!

"they just want their "tribe" to have overall privilege. (which they already. still have?)"

Exactly.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2020, 12:52:57 am »
https://us.yahoo.com/news/french-man-chased-fly-around-151608210.html

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A French man chased a fly around with an electric swatter and accidentally blew up his own house
...
Friday's blast wasn't the first time that an attempt to exterminate a tiny pest had led to bigger problems than it's worth.

Last year a man in Brazil tried to kill some cockroaches his backyard throwing matches in a hole that he had poured gasoline into.

I use a plastic cup to let the flies etc. back outside unharmed. (My parents, on the other hand, used a vaccuum cleaner.....)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 01:00:11 am by 90sRetroFan »

rp

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2020, 12:54:46 am »
I use a tissue to catch insects and let them outside into the grass. BTW looking at the article, it seems the man is still (unfortunately) alive.

guest5

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2020, 09:48:31 pm »
The only insects I will kill are mosquitoes, other parasites like ticks, and cockroaches. Roaches always find a way back in and they breed like crazy and invade your personal space. I save all bees from drowning, but I let Yellow-jackets drown because of their unwarranted aggressiveness.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2020, 11:56:38 pm »
"The only insects I will kill are mosquitoes, other parasites like ticks, and cockroaches. Roaches always find a way back in and they breed like crazy and invade your personal space."

http://aryanism.net/blog/aryan-sanctuary/hungary-must-be-destroyed/comment-page-1/#comment-183064

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/antropocentricism-the-most-dangerous-ideology-in-the-world/



« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 12:07:59 am by 90sRetroFan »
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guest5

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2020, 01:09:49 pm »
Well, parasites don't just suck human blood and roaches don't just invade human living spaces. Is it not somewhat anthropocentric not to take that fact into account? Furthermore, is blood-sucking not an act of initiated violence? I never gave mosquitoes or a tick permission to land on me and start sucking my blood. Nor did the dog....

Hornets and yellow-jackets initiate violence all the time too....

90sRetroFan

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2020, 11:39:47 pm »
You should be treating them as individuals. Just because 99 mosquitoes have sucked your blood in the past does not mean you should presume the 100th mosquito will also do so. To so presume is to fail to treat the individual before you as an individual. Remember, mosquitoes do not even know the word "mosquito" exists; "mosquito" is what humans unilaterally decided to call them (same as how "whites" unilaterally decided to call some people "blacks") - that is the anthropocentrism.

"Hornets and yellow-jackets initiate violence all the time too...."

Racist: "Blacks and browns initiate violence all the time too!"

"invade human living spaces"

That is what my insect-vaccuuming parents said decades ago.

Whoever built your house took the territory from the original non-human inhabitants to do so. I am not saying you should not continue living in your house (since the earlier inhabitants have no exclusive claim to the territory either), but either you should not mind non-humans continuing to visit the same territory, or if it does bother you then you it is up to you to move elsewhere.

For contrast:

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“I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.” – Winston Churchill (Jew)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 01:03:05 am by 90sRetroFan »

guest5

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2020, 01:59:04 pm »
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You should be treating them as individuals.

If you recall from a personnel story I have told you about a synchronistic event I experienced which actually involved a Yellow Jacket, I was able to treat that Yellow Jacket as an individual. Several months later I was bitten by a Yellow Jacket, which followed me a very long distance in-order to do so....

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Just because 99 mosquitoes have sucked your blood in the past does not mean you should presume the 100th mosquito will also do so.

If something lands on my neck my first reaction is to brush it off, this kills most small insects when doing so, regardless of whether or not it was a mosquito. Just like when I tread on soil I'm probably killing spider-mites and other small organisms. I do not go out of my way to find this creatures so as to kill them. I leave spiders in my house intentionally too....

This is the inherent violent nature of life on this planet and physical existence in a material realm.

And, for all practical intents and purposes, I will not turn someone away from my future solar community for swatting at mosquitoes that land on them. I do appreciate your ideological purity, however. Personally, I feel incredible guilt whenever I have killed something, no matter how small. It's terrible. Perhaps why the cosmos may still feel my soul is redeemable and why I was blessed with that synchronistic event involving the yellow-jacket in the first place?

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Racist: "Blacks and browns initiate violence all the time too!"

Okay, but the racist is clearly lying. Humans initiate violence all the time, regardless of skin color. Humans that dwell in western civilization usually commit the most initiated violence.

Fair enough, humans labelled mosquitoes the "mosquito" and a mosquito has no concept of the human label that has been applied to it, but, why do yellow-jackets come with yellow and black stripping and the mosquito doesn't?

I just think the whole thing is **** and beyond redemption. The only way there could be physical existence within a material realm without violence is if life were able to draw all the energy needed for living directly from the environment.

How much life have I destroyed just by walking on soil for example? I actually feel bad about that too and the only true remedy would be to remove my physical existence from this realm. 

I feel bad for the mouse:



 

guest5

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2020, 02:12:12 pm »
Also, if you show up to my front door wearing war-paint and you're holding a rifle, I may want to treat you as an individual and find out what you're all about and what you want, but everything inside me is probably going to be screaming: "This guy is definitely not here to borrow sugar!".

Mosquitoes show up with needles attached to their faces....

90sRetroFan

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2020, 12:56:44 am »
"Mosquitoes show up with needles attached to their faces...."

Which they did not choose to be born with. In any case, their needles are much less dangerous to you than your brushing motion is to them. You are doing the humanist version of Katie Hopkins justifying using torpedoes on refugee dinghies because of how threatening the refugees supposedly look.

Also you:

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I just ate oatmeal again for the first time in a long time, and remembered how much I absolutely fucken love oatmeal! I did corrupt it though with a little piece of butter....

Was it the horns on the cows' heads that made you do it that time? (Even though the cows were locked up inside a dairy factory somewhere else.....)

"I feel incredible guilt"

But not enough guilt to motivate you to not repeat the behaviour that caused it.....

"I will not turn someone away from my future solar community for swatting at mosquitoes that land on them."

Willingness to confess unethical behaviour is a positive sign. Willingness to make excuses for unethical behaviour is the opposite. If accepted, it means the entire movement has accepted a lower standard. Swatting at mosquitoes is not the same thing as claiming it's OK to swat at mosquitoes.

MOSQUITO LIVES MATTER.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 03:46:15 pm by 90sRetroFan »
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guest5

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2020, 12:46:38 pm »
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MOSQUITO LIVES MATTER.

Said the BOT Fly in conversation with his best-friend Malaria....  ;D

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The botfly will hijack a mosquito to inject the host with the eggs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botfly

90sRetroFan

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2020, 11:50:56 pm »
"Said the BOT Fly in conversation with his best-friend Malaria...."

I am not a botfly. But you are a humanist.

guest5

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2020, 11:30:21 am »
"Said the BOT Fly in conversation with his best-friend Malaria...."

I am not a botfly. But you are a humanist.

How so? Because I am capable of observing that there are other creatures that behave just as ignobly as humans and you don't like it? I noticed you avoided the question in regards to how a mosquito landing on some ones arm and sucking their blood is not initiated violence?

Is what a BOT fly does noble in your eyes?

Perhaps if "humanism" is an extreme you've taken the extreme in the opposite direction and come full circle?

Do cows fly around and land on other creatures and suck their blood?

Does a cow drink it's own milk?

Furthermore, how is only seeing the flaws in humans not humanistic itself?

Not that I wholeheartedly agree with Fanon on many topics, but he does raise a good point:
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The same Europe where they were never done talking of Man, and where they never stopped proclaiming that they were only anxious for the welfare of Man: today we know what sufferings humanity has paid for every one of their triumphs of the mind.
https://kenanmalik.com/2012/11/06/humanism-antihumanism-and-the-radical-tradition/

I get that you're a romanticist and ideologist, but I think you're closer to humanism than myself. Still you try and place my concerns with the ignobility of mosquitoes as that of a human concern. You cannot treat me as an individual, or an animal among other animals. I clearly stated mosquitoes do not just suck human blood, yet you keep attacking my issue as if it is just a human issue with mosquitoes. This is why I think you are closer to anthropocentricism and humanism than I am.

guest5

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2020, 03:51:12 pm »
....and, if I feel bad for the mouse that got "murdered" by the "Murder hornet", why would I not feel bad for the mouse that got bitten by a mosquito whom itself had been hacked by a BOT Fly? To call me a "humanist" makes no sense, unless you are attempting to insult me for some reason? Being that I'm one of the only people actually willing to try and help you build your forum up I don't see why that would be? Either way, this is one of the reasons I remain skeptical of you and Aryanism.net and will never link directly to it from my own work. I appreciate what you have to teach and the thought you invoke, especially in regards to true National Socialism, but I can sympathize with the person born into western civilization, taught the ways of the west, probably feels bad about a lot of it, and struggles daily to try and stay sensitive to issues they have been trained to be desensitized too. And, all this in an environment hyper focused on money and material wealth accumulation and a constant barrage of ideological rubbish, bad entertainment, false education, commercialized "religion", and mass marketing. I do feel a bad for people born into the west; and no, this does not excuse what western civilization has done to the world either.