Author Topic: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments  (Read 1377 times)

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2023, 05:25:53 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/nonsense-claim-immigrants-u-illegally-135009925.html

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A Sept. 19 Instagram post (direct link, archive link) shows a screenshot of a post on X, formerly Twitter, that points out supposed benefits for people living in the U.S. illegally.

“18,000,000 illegals don’t have to pay taxes, but you do,” the post reads. “18,000,000 illegals don’t have to pay rent or mortgages, but you do. 18,000,000 illegals don’t have to get vaccinated, but you do.”

It was liked more than 3,000 times in seven days. The original X post was shared more than 10,000 times in nine days.
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Our rating: False

Experts say immigrants who lack permanent legal status pay rent, mortgages and many taxes just like citizens do. They also are subject to the same vaccine rules that govern citizens because those requirements are set by workplaces and schools and have nothing to do with immigration status, experts say.
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Immigrants lacking permanent legal status pay the same sales and consumption taxes that other citizens do, and a significant number of them have federal and state taxes withheld from their paychecks, she said.

While they do not have Social Security numbers, they may file their taxes after obtaining an Individual Tax Identification Number, according to the Internal Revenue Service. People who enter the country illegally pay nearly $12 billion each year in state and local taxes, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy.

A report by the Bipartisan Policy Center found immigrants lacking permanent legal status collectively subsidize citizens through the tax system because they pay many of the same taxes but are not eligible for many benefits – including refundable tax credits, Pell grants, student loans and nutrition programs, according to the report. They paid about $12 billion more into the Social Security system than they took out in 2010, according to the Social Security Administration’s most recent figures.
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"We have never heard of any willingness by financial institutions or private landlords to exempt unauthorized immigrants in blanket fashion from making mortgage or rental payments," Mittelstadt said.

And there is no difference between vaccination rules for legal U.S. residents and those who entered the country illegally, Clemens said.

“While some organizations such as employers or schools have vaccine requirements, those requirements apply to all people employed or enrolled there, regardless of immigration status,” Clemens said.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2023, 04:38:46 pm »
First we said it, then AOC said it:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/allies/ilhan-omar/msg16053/#msg16053

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The congresswoman at one point repeated five times that it is legal to claim asylum at the U.S. border.

"It is legal to claim asylum at the United States border. It is legal. It is legal. It is legal. It is legal to claim asylum," Ocasio-Cortez said.

and now more Blue politicians are finally willing to say it:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-democrat-claims-migrants-crossing-illegally-instead-border-waiting-asylum

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Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., told Fox News on Wednesday that migrants are not crossing into the U.S. illegally
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"Well, they’re not crossing into the U.S. illegally," Johnson responded when asked at what point the crossings would become an invasion. "They’re sitting at the border seeking asylum."

Being Fox News, they immediately try to obfuscate:

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People seeking asylum, though, must prove they suffered persecution, or fear future persecution in their country of origin, according to the American Immigration Council’s website.

Many of the migrants coming to the U.S. are seeking economic opportunity, which is not a basis of asylum.

Let's cut through this nonsense.

1) Deprivation of food/water is a form of persecution.
2) Food/water are economic assets.
3) Thus persecution can be economic.
4) Thus people who have suffered starvation or who fear future starvation in their country of origin (e.g. due to global warming) are people who have suffered persecution or who fear future persecution in their country of origin respectively. They are therefore eligible for asylum.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2023, 06:09:15 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-desantis-other-republicans-deceiving-231139448.html

The lie:

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the United States is being invaded by Mexicans migrants who are bringing deadly fentanyl into the country.

The truth:

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undocumented migrants have almost zero responsibility for the fentanyl smuggling crisis.

In fact, most of the fentanyl entering the United States is brought into the country through legal ports of entry, including airports. More important, most of it is smuggled by U.S. citizens.
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The Republicans are simply lying when they link illegal migration with fentanyl trafficking: According to U.S. government data, 86.2% of felons sentenced for fentanyl trafficking are U.S. citizens.

Even more telling, a Cato Institute study found that only 0.02% of people intercepted while trying to cross the border illegally were found to possess fentanyl.

There is an explanation for this: Undocumented migrants crossing the border know that they face a serious chance of being stopped and searched by U.S. border guards. That’s why most fentanyl traffickers are U.S. citizens who enter the country through legal border crossings and airports, where chances of being searched are much smaller.

The uselessness of truthtelling:

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And yet, despite these well-known official statistics, an NPR‐Ipsos poll showed that 60% of Republicans believe that most of the fentanyl entering the country is smuggled by undocumented migrants.

I would add that no matter how the fentanyl is getting in, almost all those dying from fentanyl overdoses are voluntary drug users aware of the risks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl#Recreational_use

This is not the case with those dying of other health hazards:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-a-health-hazard/

many of whom who do not directly buy the products associated with them, but cannot escape them nonetheless. Opposition to all these hazards which cause mostly involuntary deaths should be a higher priority than opposition to any hazard (e.g. fentanyl) that causes mostly voluntary deaths, but is not. Why not?

rp

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Re: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2023, 06:20:59 pm »
Because most who die from Fentanyl are "Whites". We often here how "bad" "Whites" have it because they are addicted to Fentanyl, LOL.

Migrant

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Re: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2023, 06:37:59 pm »
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Why not?

Humanists, of the racist western variety especially...

Furthermore, why are they not as concerned with the opioid crisis that was triggered legally and via deception of patients by a corporation and defended in court by Trump stooges like Giuliani?: https://trueleft.createaforum.com/news/american-empire-collapse-it's-about-to-get-much-worse()-chris-hedges-joins/?message=20058

Related?:

Three Slave Suicide in the Context of Colonial North America

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Abstract

Suicide by enslaved people had the potential to expose the contradictions of slavery in colonial British North America. Those contradictions can best be comprehended first by analyzing the competing meanings acts of self-destruction and, second, by situating slave suicide in the comparative context of other accounts of self-inflicted death by early Americans. Some stories of slave suicide accentuated similarities between blacks and whites by appealing to masculine ethics of choosing death before dishonor, a theme that resonated with the Anglo-American elite. Yet, if some accounts of enslaved peoples' suicides reflected a set of reasons for choosing death that were shared across racial lines, others confirmed differences based on race and class. Such appraisals distanced the meanings of slave suicide from those of free Europeans, and sustained the disarticulation of suicide and slavery that had begun in the slave trade. Additionally reports of slave suicide also contained critical estimations of masters, a theme that became more pronounced over the course of the eighteenth century. In these ways as well, stories of enslaved people's suicides presented Anglo-American observers with a host of competing, contradictory, and charged messages and had the potential to unsettle the acceptance of slavery and assumptions about enslaved people.
https://academic.oup.com/chicago-scholarship-online/book/19630/chapter-abstract/178384560?redirectedFrom=fulltext

PermanentResident

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Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2023, 09:17:23 pm »
My Green Card in the U.S. has been expired for years. I have sent a digital request through the USCIS website in-order to get a copy of my "alien file" so that I can prove to my government I have not become a US citizen and can renew my passport, the first step in getting a US Green Card renewed. My request from USCIS returned a response that they could not find my alien file. I sent an appeal letter to the department with more information in hopes it would help them find my file, no response. I have no sent three additional emails to USCIS as a reminder that they have not responded to my initial appeal, still no response. I have been waiting for over a year and a half.

This is always the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear U.S. rightists start talking about immigration and border-walls...

I am now an illegal immigrant, and have been for years, because of the U.S. immigration service. I cannot even travel to my home country if I wanted to. I have been stateless for years with no hopes of escape.  ::) ;D

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2023, 03:12:17 am »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/stephen-miller-uses-textbook-definition-172416549.html

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“We are being conquered,” Miller said to Fox News’s Jesse Watters. “This is a complete resettlement of America in real time. It took hundreds of years, going back long even before our founding, going back all the way to the earliest days of the colonies in America to slowly build everything that we have.

“And now we have millions of people coming in from different cultures and different ways of living and different belief systems. They’re going to take those belief systems with them to America,” he continued. “So, a generation from now, I am telling you Jesse, people will not know the country that they are living in. These consequences are permanent. Unless there’s massive large-scale deportations by the millions, it will be irrevocable.”

Stripped of the incendiary rhetoric, this is really just a definition of how immigration works: People move to another country, bringing the culture of their homeland. In fact, Miller implicitly acknowledges that America was colonized by white people who emigrated from England—with “belief systems” that were, needless to say, different from those of the people already living in North America.

Of course, countless millions of others have since come to America “from different cultures and different ways of living and different belief systems,” but Miller isn’t one to let a few basic historical facts get in the way of his narrative. He’s simply opposed to the nonwhite people immigrating to America today.

This goes back to what I was saying here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/debunking-rightist-anti-immigration-arguments/msg9867/#msg9867

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This pretty much highlights how it is flat-out logically impossible for WNs to win the ethical debate. If they go with the position that migration is wrong (which they need for criticizing migration by "non-whites"), then they cannot avoid the conclusion that "whites" wronged "non-whites" first, and hence have no authority to complain. The only logical way to avoid incriminating themselves is to go with the position that migration is not wrong, in which case they have no reason to complain. Either way they are screwed.

See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/enemies/stephen-miller/

Woke comments:

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Don't forget all the WHITE EUROPEANS were "illegal" immigrants

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Miller quite conveniently forgetting that his ancestors immigrated from Belarus in 1903.  Oh...I forgot...it's okay if you're WHITE.

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talk about poisoning our blood look no further than t-rump and miller

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Steve Miller is a jew

(And False Leftists think Trump agrees with Hitler?! Miller's blood is the poison blood that Hitler was warning about! But Miller's blood is the blood Trump wants in his administration!)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 03:24:28 am by 90sRetroFan »

rp

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Re: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2024, 10:37:45 am »
I agree with our enemy Hanania here again:
https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1740962401917534703?t=EYzAThS7FG6Mip4ocoBflw&s=19
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Can someone explain to me this rightoid argument “why don’t you let immigrants live in your house?”

Nobody ever asks them if they love their fellow Americans so much why don’t they live with them. I don’t know how this became a requirement for allowing immigrations.
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I’m sure Richard would have no problem letting 10 or 15 Somali refugees live in his house with him and his family. If he could pick to have Jewish refugees or Guatemalans living in his city which would he choose?

90sRetroFan

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Re: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2024, 04:18:45 pm »
OK, but why promote him superfluously? We already have this exact same argument covered here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/debunking-rightist-anti-immigration-arguments/msg9867/?topicseen#msg9867

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rightists claiming that if we are opposed to a wall to keep out immigrants from the country, we should "similarly" be opposed to walls to keep out immigrants from our own homes also. This is, of course, nonsense. Being opposed to a wall to keep out immigrants from the country merely means we want immigrants treated with the same standards that we treat natives in terms of freedom of movement. And, in general, we do not let natives into our own homes either.

rp

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Re: Debunking Rightist Anti-Immigration Arguments
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2024, 07:20:37 pm »
I did not see that. I will henceforth try to not promote him unless he has some good takes that have not been stated here already.