Author Topic: Western Civilization is UGLY  (Read 7481 times)

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western Civilization is UGLY
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2021, 11:50:06 pm »
"I know you've spoken positively of Richard Wagner's music"

Can you point to a specific quote? As far as I can remember, my main positive statements about Wagner consisted of pointing out Nietzsche's dislike of Wagner and siding with Wagner over Nietzsche. From the main site:

Quote
Hitler’s other great influence was Wagner (himself a Schopenhauer disciple, by no coincidence), to the extent that he said: “Whoever wants to understand National Socialism must first know Wagner.” Nietzsche, in contrast, held a negative opinion of both Wagner and Schopenhauer (“The unworthy attempt has been made to see Wagner and Schopenhauer as types of mental illness: one would gain an incomparably more essential insight by making more precise scientifically the type of decadence both represent.” – Friedrich Nietzsche)

This is more about the storylines of Wagner's operas (which express nostalgia for pre-Renaissance times, something which we also encourage) than about the music (which is clearly in the Western classical tradition, a product of the Renaissance, and hence aesthetically contradictory). If I have said anything else about Wagner that I might have forgotten about, please link to it so I can clear things up.

"orchestral"

The issue is not orchestration. In this topic I have also posted examples of solo instrumental:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3981/#msg3981

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg4255/#msg4255

and choral:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3962/#msg3962

Western classical music. The issue is that, whatever is used to produce the sound, the sound itself is valued by its complexity. In our enemies' words:

https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2019/07/01/triggered-by-bach-classical-music-as-implicit-white-supremacy/

Quote
The superiority of Western classical music is so decisive one could almost rest the argument for the superiority of Western culture on it alone. There exists a hierarchy in the world of sound, as in other phenomena. Noise occupies the lowest rung in this hierarchy; it is an undifferentiated mass of sound in which no distinction exists. The lowest kind of music, say that of Australia’s Aborigines, most closely corresponds to noise. Western classical music, by contrast, exists on the highest rung because it apprehends sound in the most highly differentiated way possible. It is the farthest from noise and most fully exploits the inherent potential of the world of sound.

The part in bold is what in our ears makes Western classical music ugly. I have described this tendency (common to Western sensory stimulation disciplines) as the compulsion to fill space, which is easiest to point out in visual artworks but is just as true of musical compositions. Anything "fully exploited" is always ugly, as it reflects the ugly temperament of the exploiter.

"I've developed quite an eye for all the aesthetic elements that make western civilization inferior. One thing that eludes me though, is western music."

Setting aside superiority/inferiority for a moment, would you at least agree that Western classical music and Western architecture/painting/fashion/etc. are products of the same collective consciousness? To put it simply, would you agree that Western classical music are a perfect fit with the other forms of the same overall culture? For example, here is a scene packed with post-Renaissance elements:



Would you agree everything fits together like a jigsaw puzzle, including the BGM?

If you do not agree, then can you find a stylistically non-Western track that you would consider a more fitting BGM for the same scene?

But if you do agree, then since you say you like the music, in order for you to be aesthetically consistent you should like the other stuff too! Do you?

"If I decide that I want to make rock music specifically, or metal music, or 80s-style synth music, or folk music, or jazz, and piggyback off that idea, would it make that kind of music inferior in the same way that you deem western orchestra inferior?"

No, this is not my position (even for Western classical music). What makes rock etc. preferable is that they do not, in our enemies' words, "fully exploit the inherent potential of the world of sound". But if you decide you want to push the limits of rock until it exploits the inherent potential of the world of sound even more than Western classical music does, then THAT would make your music inferior. I would then call it "Western rock music".
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 12:46:10 am by 90sRetroFan »