Author Topic: Western civilization = sustainable evil  (Read 6905 times)

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #135 on: June 20, 2022, 12:11:24 am »
"Who is worse:pure (empirical) scientists, or applied (machinist) scientists?"

Machinists are technologists, not scientists. It is certainly true that the Industrial Revolution (let alone the current AI, Transhumanist and Space Revolutions that we are desperately trying to stop) would not have happened without the Scientific Revolution happening first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Revolution

Just as Western machinists have no moral sense that some things are not meant to be done, similarly Western scientists have no moral sense that some things are not meant to be known. Both are ultimately Homo Hubris, whose only guideline is to try to do/know as much as can be done/known (especially if no one else has successfully done/known it before). This is the type of personality that Western civilization produces when it is working as intended.

rp

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #136 on: June 20, 2022, 12:53:54 am »
"Machinists are technologists"
I see. But I frequently hear the phrase "applied sciences" used to refer to (Western) engineering disciplines, so I assumed technologists could be classified as "applied scientists". However, you correct that they are not "scientists" in the actual definition of the word, as a scientist by definition is one who advances knowledge.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 12:57:48 am by rp »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #137 on: June 20, 2022, 08:56:21 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/returning-wolves-could-save-rome-143324433.html

Quote
The newspaper writes that there could be thousands of boars wandering the streets of Rome, scaring the citizens and devouring piles of rubbish left on the roads.
...
But it's not just their 200-pound stature and sharp tusks that scare the locals, but the soaring cases of African swine fever affecting domestic pigs, which — while harmless to humans — pose a serious threat to the production of Italy's famed prosciutto ham.

So let's get this straight. Westerners initiate daily industrial-scale violence on countless numbers domestic pigs in order to produce prosciutto ham. Scavenging wild boars are disrupting this sustainable evil. And the wild boars are the ones portrayed as the bad guys?

So what is the Western response?

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To cull the population of boars, the Italian government's anti-boar tsar Angelo Ferrari told The Times that fencing had been erected along Rome's 68km surrounding ring road.

"The plan is for all those inside the ring road to get infected and die, even as we carry out a significant depopulation outside the city," he said.

Then, hunters in the Lazio region around Rome were given extra hunting permits to continue the cull, with officials hoping 50,000 could be destroyed.

So wild boars are also to become victims of Western initiated violence, because Western civilization insists that prosciutto ham be sustainable.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosciutto#European_Union_Protected_Designations_of_Origin

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Under the Common Agricultural Policy of the European Union (EU), certain well-established meat products, including some local prosciutto, are covered by a Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) – DOP in Italian – and other, less stringent designations of geographical origin for traditional specialties. Various regions have their own PDO, whose specifications do not in general require ham from free-range pigs.

Prosciutto ham would not exist in an Islamic Italy. This is why we support:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/operation-gaddafi/
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 09:03:03 pm by 90sRetroFan »

rp

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #138 on: June 20, 2022, 11:12:57 pm »
If only those boars would gore those subhumans with their tusks.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #139 on: June 21, 2022, 11:36:21 pm »
https://us.yahoo.com/news/california-must-euthanize-350-000-192325157.html

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A bacteria outbreak in two state hatcheries is forcing the California Department of Fish and Wildlife to euthanize about 350,000 rainbow trout, which could affect fishing stock in some state waterways this summer.

Two Fish and Wildlife hatcheries in the Eastern Sierra have been fighting an outbreak of a naturally occurring bacteria, Lactococcus petauri, since it was first detected in April, according to a news release from the agency. But this week, staff at the Black Rock and Fish Springs hatcheries determined that about 350,000 infected rainbow trout were showing signs of disease and must be euthanized.

The two facilities typically stock waterways for recreational fishing in Imperial, Inyo, Mono, Riverside and San Bernardino counties, so availability in those areas will potentially be affected. But Fish and Wildlife officials are working to contract with external vendors to ship in other stock to not substantially affect fishing opportunities, the statement said.

The statement said officials are hoping to approve this new contract in July to be able to add the additional stock to waterways soon after, as well as supplement with other state hatcheries.

“This loss is a huge disappointment, but we were prepared for this possibility and are doing all we can to ensure to continued angling opportunity for the public,” Russell Black, a fisheries supervisor with the Fish and Wildlife, said in a statement. “The fish from the private contractor and stocks from non-infected hatchery facilities will help bridge the gap while we work to vaccinate the remaining stocks at the affected facilities.”

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #140 on: June 22, 2022, 09:20:40 pm »
How to be a Western conservationist:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/18-foot-215-pound-invasive-144934665.html

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A Burmese python nearly 18 feet long and weighing 215 pounds has been caught in the Everglades, and it sets a weight record for the troublesome invasive species in Florida, according to The Conservancy of Southwest Florida.

Western conservationists are the actual invasive species.

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The non-profit conservancy announced the find June 22, and reports the female also carried a record number of eggs: 122 were developing in her abdomen.
...
Conservancy officials say the massive 215-pound snake was discovered using a program that captures male pythons, fits them with radio transmitters, and tracks their movements. These “scout snakes” then lead researchers to “large reproductive females” and their nests.
...
“The removal of female pythons plays a critical role in disrupting the breeding cycle of these apex predators that are wreaking havoc on the Everglades ecosystem and taking food sources from other native species,” Bartoszek said. “This is the wildlife issue of our time for southern Florida.”

The very fact that the pythons are easily caught by the Western conservationists shows it is the Western conservationists who are the actual apex predators.

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The conservancy python program dates to 2013 and is credited with removing 1,000 pythons from 100 square miles of southwest Florida. Collectively, those pythons weighed more than 26,000 pounds, the conservancy says.

National Park Service officials report the first removal of a python in the Everglades came in 1979. It is believed the snakes were introduced through the exotic pet trade, either when the pets escaped or were freed by owners.

As the environmental threat has grown, Florida has established a program allowing for pythons can be “humanely killed,” FWC says.

Western conservationists deserve to be inhumanely killed. They also look like what we would expect:



« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 02:24:45 pm by 90sRetroFan »

Zea_mays

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #141 on: July 19, 2022, 08:17:05 am »
Without Western trends in "art" this never would have happened:
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Since the end of last month, 15 goldfish had been slowly dying at the Jeonnam Museum of Art in Gwangyang, South Korea, trapped inside an installation by the artist Yu Buk. On Tuesday, in response to accusations of animal cruelty, the animals were removed from the piece—after one-third of them had already died.

The sculpture, titled Fish, featured 15 intravenous solution bags hanging from the gallery ceiling, each filled with water and a single, doomed, fish swimming inside. Concerned visitors began asking how the goldfish were being fed, and when they learned they were not, they complained.

Local animal rights groups also began speaking out against the piece, which prompted the museum to save the surviving goldfish—to the artist’s displeasure.

“The slow deaths of the goldfish were meant to be a part of my piece. Now that the fish are gone, it lost its meaning as a work of art,” Yu told the Korea Times. “While this may cause discomfort to general audiences, the artist thinks and expresses differently from members of the public.”

This is hardly the first time the artist has incorporated animal mortality into his work. The bulk of Yu’s practice seems to involve luring flies and other insects to their death using glowing light and adhesive applied to acrylic or glass boxes.
[...]
“My work consist of the death of bugs,” the artist wrote on OpenSea. “In a sense, I’m a bug hunter. When applying some luring liquid on the surface of photos or a wall and lighting up at night. Winged insects gather from the surroundings and are adhered to make an image.”
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/goldfish-trapped-yu-buk-2147663

Previously:
https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-sustainable-evil/?message=13326

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #142 on: July 26, 2022, 06:15:29 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-300-deer-killed-wisconsin-152419492.html

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GILMAN, Wis. – The largest depopulation of a deer farm in Wisconsin history is scheduled to take place this month, according to the state's Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection.

The action was ordered by DATCP after chronic wasting disease, also known as "zombie deer disease," was discovered at the facility, Maple Hill Farms near Gilman in Taylor County, in August 2021.

Wrangling about details of the depopulation, including whether some bucks could be sold and transferred to a CWD-positive shooting preserve, the source of indemnity and method used to kill the animals, has delayed the process until this summer.
...
The disease has not been found to cause illness in livestock or humans. However, health officials do not recommend humans consume meat from a CWD-positive animal.

In other words, it is not a disease! It's just an infection that makes deer unsafe for humans to eat. But instead of simply ceasing to eat the deer, Westerners instead will make deer-eating sustainable by killing all suspected carriers in order to prevent them from transmitting it to other deer and making them inedible also.

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The disease was found at eight Wisconsin captive deer facilities in 2021 alone, according to DATCP reports. Two more were added this year.

The disease also has continued to spread, slowly but unrelentingly, among Wisconsin's wild deer.

Regulations, enforcement and technology are failing to prevent the spread of CWD in both the deer farming industry and the wild deer herd.

But when it comes to COVID, which is a disease, even mask-wearing to prevent transmissions is too much to ask (never mind lockdowns).....

Speaking of mask-wearing, don't forget:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-sustainable-evil/msg14124/#msg14124

Related:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/farming-vs-ranching/

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/antropocentricism-the-most-dangerous-ideology-in-the-world/

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #143 on: August 04, 2022, 04:29:15 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/race-save-fish-rio-grande-113108156.html

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For the first time in four decades, America's fifth-longest river went dry in Albuquerque last week. Habitat for the endangered Rio Grande silvery minnow — a shimmery, pinky-sized native fish — went with it.
...
Scientists, water managers and environmental groups have worked to keep the fish alive — as required by the Endangered Species Act

No, you haven't; you have been working to keep the species alive by tormenting far more individuals than would if you simply let the species go extinct! Observe:

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When parts of the river dry out, officials use hand nets and seines to pull fish from warm puddles and relocate them to still-flowing sections of the river. The minnow's survival rate after being rescued is slim — just over 5% — due to the stress of warm, stagnant water and being forcibly relocated.
...
Only a handful of the 400 rescued fish would survive, with their best chance swimming through treated sewage.

Worse, many of these individuals are ones who would have never even been born in the first place if not for Western conservationists forcing them to be born:

Quote
Over the years, the government has bred and released large numbers of silvery minnows

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #144 on: August 06, 2022, 09:02:45 pm »
How to be a Western scientist contd.:

https://sports.yahoo.com/massive-flying-carp-frenzy-triggered-161712408.html

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Massive flying carp frenzy triggered by researchers

The U.S Fish and Wildlife Service on Friday shared a showing silver carp leaping en masse during a scientific electrofishing operation.

The Facebook description begins, “Oh carp, we’re going to need a bigger boat!”

The agency explained that silver carp can leap as high as 10 feet when startled by a boat’s motor or, in this case, an electric current used during population assessment studies.

The electrofishing survey was conducted on the Fox River in Illinois.


Previous coverage:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-sustainable-evil/msg3426/#msg3426
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 09:05:30 pm by 90sRetroFan »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #145 on: August 07, 2022, 05:58:38 pm »
How Westerners think:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/woolly-mammoth-really-brought-back-050000622.html

Quote
when Novak was around 14 or 15 years old, he looked at the little plaque, which said the bighorn sheep had become extinct in the area and been reintroduced, as had the bison and elk. That realisation, Novak says, helped spur him to devote his life to recreating extinct species – chiefly the passenger pigeon, which was once so numerous in the eastern US that its flocks were said to block out the sun, but which died out in captivity in 1914.

‘People lived with those birds, people got to see those birds, and then people in history robbed me from getting to have the same incredible experience,’ says Novak, now 35, who lives in North Carolina with his young twins. ‘When one of the things that thrills a person is going out and seeing wildlife, it’s impossible not to feel like you’ve been personally robbed by the extinctions of the past few decades.’

If species that existed in the past do not exist now, Westerners feel robbed. I did not make this up. You just read those exact words in the above paragraph! In other words, Westerners view everything that has ever existed as their personal property.

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/antropocentricism-the-most-dangerous-ideology-in-the-world/

Therefore, for the sake of being able to enjoy the same "thrills" as supposedly enjoyed by others in the past:

Quote
Today Novak is part of a growing movement trying to bring about the ‘de-extinction’ of lost species through genetic engineering.
...
he is working to edit existing pigeon genes and devise ways of inserting new DNA into a growing embryo – never before done for birds.
...
But there are others who dream even bigger. Across the country, in Texas, Colossal Biosciences, a for-profit start-up, is trying to bring back the woolly mammoth. It has promised to produce a genetically modified Asian elephant that is as close as possible to its hairy forebear within the next six years.

See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-sustainable-evil/msg13336/#msg13336

By the way:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novak

Quote
It is the most common surname in the Czech Republic,[3][4] Poland,[5] and Slovenia,[6] and the sixth most common in Croatia. It is also found in Romania and Moldova, in the Novac form, and among Ashkenazi Jews in various forms depending on their country of origin.[7]

Continuing:

Quote
‘Extinction is a colossal problem facing the world, and Colossal is the company that’s going to fix it,’ the firm’s website promises.

Why is it a problem?! It is only a problem to Westerners seeking "thrills"! Instead of bringing back extinct species to please them, a better solution would be to make those with such a disgusting attitude go extinct too!

Quote
Meanwhile, in Australia, the University of Melbourne has just set up a laboratory dedicated to replicating the thylacine, or Tasmanian tiger, thanks to a AUD 5 million (£2.8 million) donation in March from Aussie cryptocurrency entrepreneur Russell Wilson.
...
‘If anyone can achieve de-extinction, it will be monumental,’ says Pask. ‘It will change the way we view extinction, change the way we view animal conservation.’

No, it won't, it will only reinforce your views. What will change the way we view extinction is by calling out the Western view as uniquely depraved, and fundamentally Yahwist:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/progressive-yahwism/

Continuing:

Quote
Back in 2000, in a tiny room in the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, Beth Shapiro carefully drilled into a dodo’s leg bone. It had taken some convincing for her manager to let this young American PhD student at the irreplaceable sample.

‘I had drilled into many bones, but none of them were that precious,’ recalls Shapiro. ‘We’re both sitting there feeling very nervous. But I knew that I had tried everything else. This was going to be my only shot at getting [dodo] DNA.’
...
Today Shapiro is a professor at the University of California Santa Cruz (UCSC), a board member for Revive & Restore, and an advisor to Colossal, helping it identify which genes make the difference between a modern elephant and a mammoth. She recently sequenced a whole dodo genome from a sample in Denmark and even wrote a book called How To Clone a Mammoth, her ‘long-form answer’ to endless questions from journalists. Ben Novak, who studied with her at UCSC, describes her as the mother of defining de-extinction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapiro

Quote
Shapiro, and its variations such as Shapira, Schapiro, Schapira, Sapir, Sapira, Spira, Sapiro, Spiro/Spyro (in Greek), Szapiro/Szpiro (in Polish) and Chapiro (in French), is a Jewish Ashkenazi surname.

Continuing:

Quote
Why not instead – as many arguing against these technologies suggest – focus on conserving existing endangered animals?

This criticism is still based on Western thinking. Here is a better approach: why not see no problem with species extinction at all, and instead start seeing a problem with initiating violence against individuals instead? (We already know why not: because Westerners need their "thrills".)

Quote
In Melbourne’s new hi-tech lab, mischievously named the Thylacine Integrated Research and Restoration Lab (or TIGRR), six postdoctoral students and two permanent staffers are cultivating a living population of marsupial stem cells, analysing their RNA and putting them in different conditions to test whether they could one day be used to produce thylacine proxy embryos. They rent time on powerful supercomputers to probe the genetic differences between thylacines and other marsupials, learning which DNA edits could best bridge the gap between them.

Much of that work is based on four surprisingly well-preserved DNA samples from three baby thylacines that had lain for years in a Melbourne museum archive, found in the pouch of a female who was shot around a century ago and preserved in ethanol rather than formaldehyde (which breaks up DNA).

Having sampled the babies in 2000, Andrew Pask was later able to reproduce a few thylacine genes and insert them into a developing mouse zygote, the first time extinct DNA has been ‘resurrected’ in a living animal. TIGRR’s new thylacine sequence, Pask says, is ‘the best genome at the moment for any extinct species’.

For advocates of de-extinction, this isn’t a distraction from conservation; it is conservation. Today, DNA from more than 1,200 endangered species and subspecies has been archived in San Diego’s Frozen Zoo, one of many such ‘biobanks’ around the world.

One day we must destroy all that archived DNA.

Quote
He sees de-extinction as a continuation of existing conservation methods: we often breed endangered species in captivity to replenish wild populations, sometimes interbreeding them with other subspecies or training them with survival skills.

I agree, and hence oppose both.

Quote
Colossal’s Ben Lamm and George Church believe they can identify which genes distinguish mammoths from modern elephants and then edit those traits – such as extra insulating fat and long hair – into Asian elephant DNA, which they say is about 99.6 per cent identical (compared to 98.6 per cent for humans and chimpanzees).

The hybrid creatures could then be implanted into living Asian elephant surrogate mothers, or potentially grown within an artificial womb; raised among elephants, the new mammoths would be first reintroduced at Pleistocene Park, a nature reserve in Siberia aiming to recreate the Ice Age’s ‘mammoth steppe’.
...
Ultimately, Church and Lamm see surrogacy as a stopgap solution: beyond the moral risks, there are simply too few Asian elephants to ‘scale up’ to mass mammoth production. Instead, the company plans to develop forms of artificial gestation, such as an artificial womb or a womb-mimicking plastic bag for deliberate premature births (as has already been tested on lambs).

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/if-western-civilization-does-not-die-soon/

Continuing:

Quote
In 2015, Game of Thrones author George RR Martin gave $10,000 to Revive & Restore after hearing Novak give a TEDx talk. In those days, that was big money for de-extinction; now Colossal has changed everything. Novak is glad for the influx, which has already sparked more donor interest in non-profits such as Revive & Restore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._R._Martin

Quote
he is approximately a quarter Ashkenazi Jewish.[13]

Every single time.....

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/

Hardly surprising, considering:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/progressive-yahwism/msg11366/#msg11366

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #146 on: August 11, 2022, 08:40:22 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/nypd-seen-dousing-distressed-carriage-152554603.html

Quote
The crowd grew on Ninth Ave. and 45th Street in the Hell's Kitchen neighborhood of Manhattan after the horse collapsed and the driver of the carriage was seen whipping the animal with reins in an attempt to get it to stand back up.

“Get up! Get up! Get up! C’mon, get up,” the driver begged the horse, to the dismay of onlookers.

Kelvin Gonzalez told NBC New York that he watched the scene in horror.

“He started whipping and saying ‘Get up, get up. Like bro, don’t whip your horse, he obviously needs some water he, looked dehydrated,” Gonzalez said.
...
Carriage horses have caused contentious debate in New York for years. Former Mayor Bill de Blasio vowed that one of his first acts in office would be to ban horse-drawn carriages. He was unsuccessful, but was able to sign the carriage horse relief bill into law, which makes it illegal for the horses to work in temperatures 90 degrees or hotter. Wednesday's high temperature was 87 degrees.





See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg396/#msg396

It goes without saying that carriages did not exist in America prior to the colonial era.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 08:48:16 pm by 90sRetroFan »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Western civilization = sustainable evil
« Reply #147 on: August 22, 2022, 04:38:15 pm »
What Western scientists are paid to do:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/scientists-hell-bent-resurrecting-tasmanian-181500024.html

Quote
Scientists Are Hell-Bent on Resurrecting the Tasmanian Tiger. Here’s Their Complicated Plan

    De-extinction efforts focus on reviving extinct species or crafting new organisms that resemble said species—in this case, the thylacine, or Tasmanian tiger.

    Colossal Biosciences in Dallas, Texas hopes to bring back the Tasmanian tiger with help from Australian scientists.

    The plan? Finish genome sequencing before gene editing and engineering to birth a new thylacine.
...
Ultimately, this will lead to inserting thylacine genes into the genome of a dasyurid and stimulating embryonic growth until it is ready for a surrogate and eventual birth. The current plan calls for taking stem cells from the living dasyurid, or dunnart—a marsupial relative that bears basically no resemblance to the thylacine (think: mouse-like dunnart vs. wolf-like Tasmanian tiger)—and then editing genes to get as close to a new thylacine as possible.

bondburger

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Re: Is Counterculture Still Alive?
« Reply #148 on: August 24, 2022, 06:34:34 pm »
Excellent 2010 video from The Onion mocking the needless cruelty and pointlessness of Western animal testing.
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=CJkWS4t4l0k

Reminds me very much of the experiments in "Learned Helplessness" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness#Early_experiments) in which animals were subjected to repeated painful stimuli with no ways of making it stop until they lost hope and were conditioned to just accept the pain. I first heard of these experiments a few years ago from Kaczynski's writings, in which he claims the technological-society conditions humans similarly in regards to psychological suffering. One thing that his mostly-rightist followers never comment on though is the cruelty of the experiment itself. Nobody remotely empathetic needs the results and implications of the experiments to be disgusted by technological progress, the fact that such experiments can be conducted at all is disgusting enough.

rp

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