Author Topic: Leftist vs rightist moral circles  (Read 3190 times)

90sRetroFan

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #90 on: November 17, 2023, 01:23:29 am »
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trying to shame and demonize people for not having any plans of dying in a (civil) war.

From what I have gathered reading countless enemy discussions, it isn't so much that rightists are implying that "non-white" male refugees should be fighting in the countries they have fled from, but that rightists are accusing them of literally being a de facto army "invading" the countries they are seeking asylum in.

We debunked this all the way back here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/debunking-rightist-anti-immigration-arguments/msg9870/#msg9870

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If State A invades State B, former taxpayers to State B will now be paying taxes to State A instead (ie. State B loses taxpayers; State A gains taxpayers). In contrast, if inhabitants of State A migrate to State B, these former taxpayers to State A who have migrated will now be paying taxes to State B instead (ie. State B gains taxpayers; State A loses taxpayers). Thus in fact immigration is the opposite of invasion.

See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/debunking-rightist-anti-immigration-arguments/msg11535/#msg11535

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/debunking-rightist-anti-immigration-arguments/msg17806/#msg17806

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/debunking-rightist-anti-immigration-arguments/msg20576/#msg20576

rp

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #91 on: November 17, 2023, 01:28:23 am »
"From what I have gathered reading countless enemy discussions, it isn't so much that rightists are implying that "non-white" male refugees should be fighting in the countries they have fled from, but that rightists are accusing them of literally being a de facto army "invading" the countries they are seeking asylum in."
Depends on what degree of racist the rightist is. In the early days of the refugee crisis (2015-2016), I mainly noticed the former argument. Perhaps it has changed.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #92 on: November 28, 2023, 05:14:00 pm »
https://twitter.com/MyHandsRatedE/status/1723373025813303520

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“My children are prior to the child the of the enemy” is a very important white supremacist ideology
...
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A more accurate description would be: "My children are prior to the child of the outgroup." "Enemy" gives the inaccurate impression that what matters to tribalists is whether outgroup children will endanger the ingroup children. Actually, what matters to tribalists is whether the ingroup children can benefit from the outgroup children being oppressed. The most obvious example is non-human children (who are in no way endangering human children) being used for food/experiments/etc. intended to benefit human children.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #93 on: December 01, 2023, 04:16:09 pm »


Yes. What does rightist appropriation of BLM really tell us? It tells us that rightists think that:

1) "non-white" murdered by "white"
2) "white" murderer not charged
3) protests happen calling for "white" murderer to be charged

is equivalent to:

1) "white" murdered by "non-white"
2) "non-white" murderer charged
3) protests happen calling for "non-whites" to be collectively punished.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #94 on: December 16, 2023, 03:06:21 pm »
https://us.yahoo.com/news/anger-israeli-government-mounts-military-185909879.html

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Anger at Israeli government mounts after military admits to mistakenly killing hostages
...
Emotions were raw a day after news broke that Yotam Haim, Samer Talalka and Alon Shamriz had been killed by soldiers from their own side.
...
A preliminary investigation has been launched “at the highest level,” the official said, adding that the conduct went “against our rules of engagement.”

But this conduct:

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Inside Gaza, more than 18,700 people have been killed, while around 90% of the population has been displaced, with many living in spiraling humanitarian conditions

does not.


90sRetroFan

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Re: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #95 on: December 28, 2023, 03:14:13 pm »
Our enemies again demonstrate their utter incapability of understanding non-tribalist thinking:

https://vdare.com/posts/big-city-dem-mayors-two-black-demand-biden-pay-for-border-invasion-but-not-stop-it

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Big City Dem Mayors, Two Black, Demand Biden Pay For Border Invasion (But Not Stop It)

Yes, because paying for the refugees helps the refugees, whereas stopping the refugees from entering does not help the refugees. Duh!

The mayors are complaining that they are insufficiently funded to care for the refugees. They are not complaining about their duty to care for the refugees. They want to care for as many refugees as they have the resources to care for; they are asking for more resources (of which the US has plenty - think about how much money Biden is giving Israel to destroy Gaza with) so that they can do their duty more effectively!

90sRetroFan

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Re: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2024, 10:39:25 pm »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #97 on: March 05, 2024, 06:14:33 pm »


It's not even as complicated as False Leftist Iadarola makes it. "Speaking languages that nobody has heard of" is illogical as the speaker of the language and whomever they speak it to must have heard the language by definition. Unless, of course, they do not count as "anybody". Which, of course, is how Trump sees them. So, which foreign language speakers  count as "anybody" (ie. the in-group) to Trump?

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2018/07/13/trump-opposes-foreign-worker-visas-except-for-mar-a-lago-fred-grimm/

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President Trump has found himself forced to staff his beloved Mar-a-Lago Club with the very sort of workers he once vowed to banish — those damn job-stealing foreigners.
...
The Prez and his cronies require something special from their servers. Perhaps an exotic East European accent.
...
a disproportionate number of servers with accents out of the old Soviet bloc.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/07/28/news/donald-trump-foreign-workers/

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Another former staffer told CNN Trump took a particular liking to her when he found out she was European.

antihellenistic

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Re: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #98 on: March 19, 2024, 06:21:20 pm »
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For instance, research on the personality and motivations of political conservatives and liberals in the United States has shown that conservatives tend to self-report a greater need for closure, structure, order, certainty, and absence of ambiguity (meta-analysis by Jost et al., 2018; see also Carney et al., 2008; Gerber et al., 2010; Jost, 2017; Jost et al., 2009). Political liberals, on the other hand, report a more favorable attitude toward science (J. M. Blank & Shaw, 2015; Lewandowsky & Oberauer, 2016; Tullett et al., 2016; but see also Washburn & Skitka, 2018) and tend to perform better on tests of cognitive ability (Choma & Hanoch, 2017; Deary et al., 2008; Eidelman et al., 2012; Heaven et al., 2011; Hodson & Busseri, 2012; Onraet et al., 2015; Yilmaz & Saribay, 2017). Political liberals are also more resistant to conspiracies or misinformation (Jost et al., 2018; Miller et al., 2016; Pennycook & Rand, 2020; Pfattheicher & Schindler, 2016; Sterling et al., 2016). Further research into values and moral foundations has suggested that political conservatives adopt more “binding” values such as sanctity, authority, and loyalty, whereas political liberals value more “individualizing” forms of morality that emphasize fairness and care (Graham et al., 2009, 2011; Kim et al., 2012; Nilsson & Erlandsson, 2015; Van Leeuwen & Park, 2009;


...


Recent research centered on dogmatism—measured through individuals’ general receptivity to evidence and respect for credible alternative viewpoints—has shown that dogmatic individuals have highly impulsive personalities (Zmigrod et al., 2021). Impulsivity was also implicated in individuals endorsing ideological violence to protect their in-group (Zmigrod & Goldenberg, 2021), suggesting impulsivity contributes to ideological tendencies (Zmigrod et al., 2021).


...


Mental inflexibility has been implicated in extreme ideological identities (for review, see Zmigrod, 2020) in the context of politics (Zmigrod, Rentfrow, & Robbins, 2020), nationalism (Zmigrod et al., 2018), religion (Zmigrod, Rentfrow, Zmigrod, & Robbins, 2019), dogmatism (Zmigrod, Zmigrod, et al., 2019), and a willingness to endorse violence and self-sacrifice (Zmigrod, Rentfrow, & Robbins, 2019). Importantly, cognitive rigidity was manifest on both the extreme right and the extreme left (Zmigrod, Rentfrow, & Robbins, 2020), suggesting that ideological extremity may be as psychologically important as the mission of the ideology.


...


Furthermore, recent research examining the cognitive profiles of a range of ideological attitudes found that impairments in strategic information processing were linked to more conservative, authoritarian, nationalistic, and religious tendencies (Zmigrod et al., 2021). 7 This impairment was also evidenced in individuals who were more willing to support extreme progroup actions to protect their in-group. These impairments were manifest in performance on executive-functioning tasks associated with working memory and planning, illustrating that there are common cognitive roots to ideological thinking across a range of ideological contexts. A difficulty in planning and executing complex action sequences in basic perception may thus increase people’s reliance on coherent collective dogmas that simplify the world into absolute explanations and clear behavioral prescriptions.

Source :

Zmigrod L. (2022). A Psychology of Ideology: Unpacking the Psychological Structure of Ideological Thinking. Perspectives on psychological science : a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, 17(4), 1072–1092. https://doi.org/10.1177/17456916211044140

90sRetroFan

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Re: Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #99 on: April 09, 2024, 01:06:24 am »


By the way:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/enemies/denmark/

Trump liking Denmark at least makes sense given both are similarly evil. On the other hand, TYT also liking Denmark just reveals TYT's False Leftism.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2024, 01:13:47 am by 90sRetroFan »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Leftist vs rightist moral circles
« Reply #100 on: April 18, 2024, 07:07:27 pm »
Example supplied by our enemies:

https://www.amren.com/videos/2024/04/the-french-discover-hyperviolence/

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Besanson is near the Swiss border, and it held its annual carnival on April 9th. Two identitarian feminists from the Nemesis Collective decided to make a statement.

They hung a banner in town that said, “Forty-six women would have been saved from **** if all expulsion orders from French territory had been carried out in 2023.”

Would not the expelled rapists have instead merely **** women outside French territory? Thus actually zero women would have been saved. But rightist minds cannot process this.

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They also joined a parade and carried signs. One said “Foreign rapists out” and the other said “Save us from immigration.”

The identitarians also look like what we would expect:

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The Green Party mayor of Besancon charged them with inciting hatred against immigrants, and the girl who carried the “foreign rapists out” sign was arrested, spent a night in jail, had her computer confiscated, and her apartment searched.

Thank you, Green Party! Are Greens the only sane ones remaining in France?

See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/news/green-wave/

Continuing:

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Soon, other people started posting pictures of themselves with the message “foreign rapists out.”


They also look like what we would expect.

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In the local regional assembly, members of Marine Le Pen’s National Rally party held up signs with the same message, leading the flustered presiding socialist to end the session.


https://trueleft.createaforum.com/enemies/rn/

Continuing:

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Virginia Joron, a member of the Euro-Parliament for the National Rally, said, “We are being submerged by migrants.



The question is not how to spread them around better. It’s how to make them leave.”

She also looks like what we would expect.

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Pascale Bordes, who represents the National Rally in the French legislature, says Muslims “refuse to integrate and impose their alien way of living on us.


She also looks like what we would expect.

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The next elections for the European parliament are just a few weeks away: June 6. Of all the candidates, the one with the highest rating in all of France is Jourdain Bardella, the 28-year-old new head of the National Rally

He also looks like what we would expect:



See also:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/old-content/

Enemy comments from the first link:

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Hyperviolence has long been described by Eric Zemmour who is a very based man.

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The ‘Reconquest Party’. I actually know what that is. It’s the party to the right of The National Rally founded relatively recently by Eric Zemmour. Former journalist Zemmour declared war on Muslims and immigrants.

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/enemies/eric-zemmour-948/

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 07:16:37 pm by 90sRetroFan »