Author Topic: Drafting up a Jamia  (Read 2461 times)

90sRetroFan

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2023, 05:56:06 pm »
"Operation Gaddafi, Anti-Racism & Anti-Zionism = based"

"Based" is a rightist compliment. We are leftists. If you wish to compliment us, use "woke".

"Changing the Qur’an = kufr that would lead you in dangerous alleys by the vigilantes."

I know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_view_of_the_Quran

Quote
Shia have been accused since at least the 10th century by anti-Shia Sunni Muslims of espousing a theory that the contemporary Quran differs from what was revealed to Muhammad because it was (allegedly) edited to remove mention of the importance of Ali — the Shia icon and first Shia Imam. The idea that the Quran was distorted is regarded by these Sunnis as one of the most blatant examples of Shia "heresy".[8]

Duty disregards danger:

Quote
Shia scholars who supported the view that the Qur'anic text had been distorted were:

    Shia author Ahmad ibn Muhammad al-Sayyari (9th century)[13]
    Ali Ibn Ibrahim Qomi (d. 919)[16]
    Al Ayyaashi (d. 932)[citation needed]
    Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni (d. 941)[citation needed]
    Al-Shaykh Al-Mufid (d. 1022) — spoke of the alteration which occurred in the ordering of Quranic verses (ta'līf).[11]
    Mohsen Fayz Kashani (d. 1680)[16]
    Ni'matullah Al Jazaa'iri (d. 1701)[citation needed]
    Muhammad Baqir Behbahani (d. 1791) — who wrote in al-Fawā'id al-ḥā'iriyya: "It is clear from the many akhbār that [corruption] occurred... Our position is that it is permitted to act upon one of the famous seven variants [of the Qur'ān]. The indicator for this position is the statement, or rather the order, of the Imams that "You must recite as the people recite until the day of the return of the qā'im"."[17][misquoted]
    Mirza Husain Noori Tabarsi (d. 1902)[citation needed]
    Agha Bozorg Tehrani (d. 1970)[18]

"The view of most Muslim scholars is that the “Jewish” Prophets were actually Muslims and that everything bad they could have done such as sins, tribalism, murder of innocents etc. were attributed to them later by the rabbis to make them look more “human” or to legalise what was forbidden."

Yes, but if you claim that the Koranic description of these prophets is accurate, how do you account for their bad behaviour as described in the Koran?

"Even Prophet Abraham wasn’t actually commanded to kill his son by God but he actually misinterpreted his dream which was actually about the covenant in the first place.
The sacrificial son was actually Ismael and not Isaac but the Jews changed it out of tribalism to feel special."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Adha

Quote
Eid al-Adha (Arabic: عيد الأضحى, romanized: ʿĪd al-ʾAḍḥā, lit. 'Feast of the Sacrifice') or the Holiday of Sacrifice is the second and the larger of the two main holidays celebrated in Islam (the other being Eid al-Fitr). It honours the willingness of Abraham (Ibrahim) to sacrifice his son Ishmael (Ismail) as an act of obedience to God's command. Before Abraham could sacrifice his son, however, God provided him with a lamb which he was supposed to kill in his son's place because of his willingness to sacrifice his own son in the name of God.
...
Acknowledging that Abraham was willing to sacrifice what is dear to him, God honoured both Abraham and Ishmael. Angel Gabriel (Jibreel) called Abraham, "O' Ibrahim, you have fulfilled the revelations." and a lamb from heaven was offered by Angel Gabriel to prophet Abraham to slaughter instead of Ishmael. Muslims worldwide celebrate Eid al Adha to commemorate both the devotion of Abraham and the survival of Ishmael.[16][17][18]

Did this happen? If it did, then Abraham was behaving badly:

Quote
tribalism, murder of innocents

so if you claim that:

Quote
everything bad they could have done such as sins, tribalism, murder of innocents etc. were attributed to them later by the rabbis to make them look more “human” or to legalise what was forbidden.

then you must admit that the rabbis altered the Koran.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 06:42:33 pm by 90sRetroFan »

guest98

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2023, 01:33:48 pm »
Quote
but Muslims would rather die as martyrs than changing the Qur’an.

I think that the only way to bring a new purified Islam to the masses of Muslims is by force and a superior wisdom. If any judeo-"muslims" resist and cant let go of there attachment to judeo-islam then they will have to be destroyed. If war is necessary then fine, war can be a good purifying element.

christianbethel

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2023, 05:26:41 pm »
@90sRetroFan Still working on the rough draft. I just haven't had time to work on it as of late. Will provide updates ASAP.
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.

Mujahid

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #78 on: February 27, 2023, 05:29:15 pm »
I’m a Shia, I know what it’s like to hold a minority opinion and won’t condemn you harshly for it, so that’s an interesting view…

Regarding the sacrificial lamb, well, I try to buy plant-based products only, I would only eat halal meat if it’s offered to me and if I’m sure it would go to waste otherwise.

Either way it would make more sense for you to just keep the Surahs that don’t mention Jewish prophets then. Nobody would recite a poem by skipping verses here and there.

I’m sure Muslims would be easier to get mobilised for your Aryanist causes by focusing on what values we have in common and ignoring the rest until later.

Don’t ask don’t tell similarly to how the NSDAP didn’t push everyone to be vegan right away.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #79 on: February 27, 2023, 05:54:26 pm »
"it would make more sense for you to just keep the Surahs that don’t mention Jewish prophets then. Nobody would recite a poem by skipping verses here and there."

After christianbethel posts his next draft, you are welcome to go through it and suggest specifically what you would like to take out or put back in. If you do not want to wait, you are alternatively welcome to post your own draft with your preferred edits already made. We can then compare your draft to christianbethel's and see which is better.

"focusing on what values we have in common"

You are welcome to join in the many other topics around our various forums.

christianbethel

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2023, 04:29:10 pm »
Quote
After christianbethel posts his next draft
I'm almost done, but it will still take some time. Please bear with me a little longer.
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.

christianbethel

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National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #82 on: March 25, 2023, 10:21:12 pm »
What's with the subheadings in blue text?

Quote
75. Do you ˹[Israelite] believers still˺ expect them to be true to you, though a group of them would hear the word of Allah then knowingly corrupt it after understanding it?

What's with "[Israelite]"?

Quote
85. But here you [the Israelites] are, killing each other and expelling some of your people from their homes, aiding one another in sin and aggression; and when those ˹expelled˺ come to you as captives, you still ransom them—though expelling them was unlawful for you. Do you believe in some of the Scripture [the Torah] and reject the rest? Is there any reward for those who do so among you other than disgrace in this worldly life and being subjected to the harshest punishment on the Day of Judgment? For Allah is never unaware of what you do. 86. These are the ones who trade the Hereafter for the life of this world. So their punishment will not be reduced, nor will they be helped. 87. Indeed, We gave Moses the Book [the Torah] and sent after him successive messengers. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the holy spirit. Why is it that every time a messenger comes to you Israelites with something you do not like, you become arrogant, rejecting some and killing others?

Quote
88. They [the Israelites] say, “Our hearts are unreceptive!” In fact, Allah has condemned them for their disbelief. They have but little faith.

Quote
89. Although they used to pray for victory ˹by means of the Prophet˺ over the polytheists, when there came to them a Book [the Qur’an] from Allah which they recognized, confirming the Scripture [the Torah] they had ˹in their hands˺, they rejected it.

What's with the "[the Israelites]" and "[the Torah]"?

christianbethel

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #83 on: March 26, 2023, 09:37:38 am »
What's with the subheadings in blue text?

Quote
75. Do you ˹[Israelite] believers still˺ expect them to be true to you, though a group of them would hear the word of Allah then knowingly corrupt it after understanding it?

What's with "[Israelite]"?

Quote
85. But here you [the Israelites] are, killing each other and expelling some of your people from their homes, aiding one another in sin and aggression; and when those ˹expelled˺ come to you as captives, you still ransom them—though expelling them was unlawful for you. Do you believe in some of the Scripture [the Torah] and reject the rest? Is there any reward for those who do so among you other than disgrace in this worldly life and being subjected to the harshest punishment on the Day of Judgment? For Allah is never unaware of what you do. 86. These are the ones who trade the Hereafter for the life of this world. So their punishment will not be reduced, nor will they be helped. 87. Indeed, We gave Moses the Book [the Torah] and sent after him successive messengers. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the holy spirit. Why is it that every time a messenger comes to you Israelites with something you do not like, you become arrogant, rejecting some and killing others?

Quote
88. They [the Israelites] say, “Our hearts are unreceptive!” In fact, Allah has condemned them for their disbelief. They have but little faith.

Quote
89. Although they used to pray for victory ˹by means of the Prophet˺ over the polytheists, when there came to them a Book [the Qur’an] from Allah which they recognized, confirming the Scripture [the Torah] they had ˹in their hands˺, they rejected it.

What's with the "[the Israelites]" and "[the Torah]"?
I added those bracketed terms to avoid potential confusion, as the context of the full passage and what the dialogue is referencing is unclear. As for the blue subheadings, that is the same format the Mustafah Khattab translation uses. Want me to remove them?
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #84 on: March 26, 2023, 06:50:01 pm »
I think we should remove 42, 45, 48, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90.

So we go from 38 directly to 80, 81, 82 and then to 91.

Again, please transfer what we are removing this time round onto a new document in case we need to check back.

christianbethel

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #85 on: March 26, 2023, 06:54:19 pm »
On it.
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.

christianbethel

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #86 on: March 27, 2023, 03:23:55 pm »
Done.
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #87 on: March 27, 2023, 06:38:33 pm »
97, 98,  102, 113, 134 should be removed.

I also think that the blue subheadings might be better off removed, but we can get back to this at the end.

christianbethel

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #88 on: March 27, 2023, 07:59:03 pm »
OK.
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.

christianbethel

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Re: Drafting up a Jamia
« Reply #89 on: March 28, 2023, 04:12:14 pm »
Done.
National Socialism ≠ Nazism

Aryan ≠ 'White'.

Race = Quality && Race ≠ Ethnicity.

History is written by the victors.

The truth fears no investigation.

(He) who controls the past controls the future; (he) who controls the present controls the past.

UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.