Author Topic: Counterculture and Western Civilisation  (Read 1948 times)

bondburger

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Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« on: December 08, 2021, 04:27:18 am »
I wish to be more coherent when sharing and discussing some Aryanist ideas. There are two terms I struggle with, i.e. "Western Civilisation" and "Counterculture".

What exactly defines the Counterculture era? On Wikipedia this seems to refer very specifically to the 60s-70s, and not with the 90s which you also apply it to, for example. The stereotypes associated with it are also more like long-hair and drugs. When the term is used on this forum I of course have some sense as to what you're referring to instead; low sexual dimorphism in style, more individualistic expression, antimaterialistic and unifying ideas, etc. but these are easy to pick up on because these are Aryanist ideals too. So any argument I could make about why the counterculture was good (in line with Aryanist ideals) would come down to "good things are good", a tautology.

Similarly with Western Civilisation, if one points out the ugly baroque styles of Western art, the racism, sexism, materialism, etc. then someone can easily point out examples that break this pattern. My understanding of this term is again limited and based on prior knowledge as to what Aryanists don't like, so anything that does agree with Aryanist ideals (or at least not disagree too strongly) also in "Europe" seems seperated from Western Civilisation. My arguments as to why Western Civilisation is bad are therefore dependent upon me removing good ideas from my definition of Western (which others would still call Western), so all I can really argue is that bad ideas are bad, another tautology.

To get around these I would really appreciate simple and clear definitions as to what these terms mean and do not mean, and also preferably an argument as to why these are the correct uses of the terms. Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 04:38:10 am by bondburger »

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guest55

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2021, 08:20:17 pm »
Quote
To get around these I would really appreciate simple and clear definitions as to what these terms mean and do not mean, and also preferably an argument as to why these are the correct uses of the terms. Thank you.

Western Civilization aka Western Culture aka Judeo-Greco-Christian Culture:

Western civilization arose out of the "enlightenment" era and the French Revolution. It grants "man" supposed "rights". To Aryanists "rights" are arbitrary. The Declaration of Rights of Man which came out of the French Revolution is also humanist as it makes no mention of non-humans. Humanism is merely more tribalism where the out-group is non-humans and the in-group are humans. To any serious upstanding person who wishes to be moral and ethical the in-group versus out-group dichotomy obviously becomes an unacceptable condition because the out-group will always be exploited by the in-group on a planet with finite resources and whilst under the pressure applied by natural-selection. It should be obvious too I believe that true unity is impossible while multiple in-group vs. out-group dichotomies are at play in any given situation or nation?

Humanism 101 (tribalism continued):


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We are the full counterpart of the French Revolution — Adolf Hitler

Because, if truly uniting a nation is your goal then tribalism must be unacceptable!

Lastly in regards to Western culture, given what I stated about it above it should be clear also that colonialism and racism in the West are merely the in-group vs. out-group (humanism\tribalism) strategy taken to the extreme. Understanding this we should then be able to also see why it was so easy for Western colonialists to not see their victims as human-beings such as themselves, because those people were clearly in the Westerner's out-group.

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So any argument I could make about why the counterculture was good (in line with Aryanist ideals) would come down to "good things are good", a tautology.

The counter-culture, had it been allowed to run it's course and arrive at it's logical conclusion unimpeded, would have ended Western civilization and all the "bad things" listed above. It would have resulted in a true national revival of America. Instead, we're still stuck in the cesspool of tribalism which has now ultimately manifested itself with the election of Turanian tribalist par-excellence Donald Trump himself, a Westerner through-and-through. 

In closing though, what ultimately makes Western civilization the most evil civilization to ever exist on this planet so far? Simple put, this: https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/antropocentricism-the-most-dangerous-ideology-in-the-world/

Can you now see how humanism\tribalism and anthropocentricism support each other in theory as well, and how colonialism and racism could only ever be their true end product?


90sRetroFan

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2021, 02:05:53 am »
"What exactly defines the Counterculture era? On Wikipedia this seems to refer very specifically to the 60s-70s, and not with the 90s which you also apply it to, for example."

The Counterculture era certainly began in the 60s, in the US overlapping most notably with the Civil Rights movement as well as opposition to the Vietnam War. However, in a worldwide context, the Anti-Apartheid movement which also began in the 60s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Apartheid_Movement

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The Sharpeville massacre occurred on 21 March 1960, when 69 unarmed protesters were shot dead by the South African police, triggered an intensification of action. The organisation was renamed the "Anti-Apartheid Movement" and instead of just a consumer boycott the group would now "co-ordinate all the anti-apartheid work and keep South Africa's apartheid policy in the forefront of British politics",[1] and campaign for the total isolation of apartheid South Africa, including economic sanctions.

continued to strengthen through the 80s:

Quote
In the 1980s, the international campaign to free Nelson Mandela from prison became a global cause. In close co-operation with the exiled leaders of the ANC, the British Anti-Apartheid Movement increasingly personalised the liberation struggle, with Mandela as its symbolic figurehead.[8] The Anti-Apartheid Movement worked with a range of organisations in Britain, such as the International Defence and Aid Fund, local council authorities, churches, and trade unions, to demand Mandela’s release from prison and campaign for the end of apartheid in South Africa. A notable feature of the campaign across Britain was the renaming of buildings and streets after Nelson Mandela, which resulted in the UK having more streets named after him than anywhere outside of South Africa.[9] The Free Nelson Mandela Campaign gained prominence when Glasgow's local authority gave Mandela the Freedom of the City in 1981,[10] and a further eight cities and councils including Aberdeen, Dundee,[11] and Sheffield followed this lead during the 1980s.

A major part of the campaign revolved around music, which helped publicise Mandela and the anti-apartheid struggle to the British public. In 1984, The Special A.K.A released the hit single 'Free Nelson Mandela' which reached number 9 in the UK music charts. In 1986, Artists Against Apartheid organised the Freedom Festival at Clapham Common in London, in which 250,000 people attended. The most famous event was The Nelson Mandela 70th Birthday Tribute which hoped to secure his release in time for his 70th birthday in June 1988. There were four elements to ‘Freedom at 70’: the Nelson Mandela 70th Birthday Tribute concert held at Wembley Stadium on 11 June; a rally in Glasgow to launch the Nelson Mandela Freedom March on 12 June; and the five-week long Freedom March from Glasgow to London, which finished with a rally in Hyde Park on 17 July 1988. These events attracted an unprecedented level of interest in the Anti-Apartheid Movement and the struggle against apartheid. For example, the Wembley Stadium concert was attended by around 100,000 people and an estimated 600 million people in over 60 countries watched the event.[12]

As a direct consequence of the 70th Birthday Tribute, the Anti-Apartheid Movement membership doubled to nearly 18,000 in 1988.[13]

and reached its peak in the 90s with the toppling of Apartheid South Africa itself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiations_to_end_apartheid_in_South_Africa

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The apartheid system in South Africa was ended through a series of negotiations between 1990 and 1993 and through unilateral steps by the de Klerk government. These negotiations took place between the governing National Party, the African National Congress, and a wide variety of other political organisations. Negotiations took place against a backdrop of political violence in the country, including allegations of a state-sponsored third force destabilising the country. The negotiations resulted in South Africa's first non-racial election, which was won by the African National Congress.

In this perspective, the Counterculture era was at its most powerful in the 90s, also manifesting in Clinton's heroic bombing of Serbia (which is our template for US foreign policy):

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/remembering-the-yugoslav-wars/

as well as environmentalism:



and continuing into the 00s with BDS:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/anti-racism-before-the-counterculture-era-ended/

which was explicitly modelled after the Anti-Apartheid movement:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions

Quote
BDS is modeled after the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa.[10] Its proponents compare the Palestinians' plight to that of apartheid-era black South Africans.[11]

We consider 9/11 to be the event which ended the Counterculture era. Before 9/11, Western civilization was widely viewed as the cause of most of the world's problems. After 9/11, this was flipped on its head with the notion that Western civilization was under attack and had to be preserved at all costs. (For example, a movie like "300" could never have been made in the Counterculture era, and even visually looks nothing like the Counterculture era movies.)

"The stereotypes associated with it are also more like long-hair and drugs."

This was back in the 60s when young leftists had no power to change things, so they sought escapism:



But by the 90s these same individuals who were powerless youths in the 60s were now in power:



So what was going on in the 90s was social justice attitudes cultivated in the 60s finally beginning to be applied in international politics. This was what Jews realized had to be stopped before Israel became the next target, hence 9/11.

"if one points out the ugly baroque styles of Western art, the racism, sexism, materialism, etc. then someone can easily point out examples that break this pattern."

Yes, and these examples would be examples of (earlier cycles of) Counterculture. The key is that Western art considers itself to be superior to non-Western art, whereas Counterculture art considers itself to be superior to Western art but not to non-Western art. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_landscape_garden

Quote
The Far East inspired the origins of the English Garden via Holland. In 1685, the English diplomat in The Hague and writer Sir William Temple wrote an essay Upon the garden of Epicurus (published in 1690), which contrasted European theories of symmetrical gardens with asymmetrical compositions from China, for which he introduced the Japanese term sharawadgi.[19][20][21] Temple had never visited the Far East, but he was in contact with the Dutch and their discourse on irregularity in design, had spoken to a merchant who had been in the Far East for a long time, and read the works of European travellers there. He noted that Chinese gardens avoided formal rows of trees and flower beds, and instead placed trees, plants, and other garden features in irregular ways to strike the eye and create beautiful compositions, with an understatement criticizing the formal compositions of the gardens at the Palace of Versailles of Louis XIV of France.[22]

The English landscape garden, despite being English, is not Western as it considers itself closer to China than to France.

"anything that does agree with Aryanist ideals (or at least not disagree too strongly) also in "Europe" seems seperated from Western Civilisation."

This is correct.

"My arguments as to why Western Civilisation is bad are therefore dependent upon me removing good ideas from my definition of Western (which others would still call Western)"

The others are wrong. For example, Catharism was a good idea. But how were Cathars treated by Judeo-"Christians"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_B%C3%A9ziers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism#Treaty_and_persecution

If you were a Cathar, would you feel closer to Judeo-"Christians" or to Muslims who were fellow victims of the Crusaders (and who, as we have previously noted, never bothered the Cathars)?

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p335_Whisker.html

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We find the Cathars emerging by about 1025 A.D., in Germany, Italy and France, also spreading to England and Flanders. Originally they were simply "the new Manichaeans," and were so labeled by those whom the Church sent to weed out the recurrent heresy. There are many legends about the founders of the Cathar heresy, but no single figure or small, identifiable group can be credited. Gerbert of Aurillac, Archbishop of Reims, for example, in 991 made a declaration of principles which were decidedly gnostic and Manichaean, but he cannot be said to have led or encouraged the spread of Cathar religion. In 1028 William V, Duke of Aquitaine, summoned a council of bishops to deal with the heresy, and there it was held that it had spread northward from Italy. Ademar of Chabannes believed that a woman and another peasant had carried the doctrine into France, perhaps from Italy. Modern scholarship suggests that a portion of it, at least, came from Bulgaria, Armenia, and/or the Byzantine Empire, with another portion coming out of the Moslem Empire, where there was an unusual tolerance for strange gnostic sects.

So how can Catharism be considered Western? Actual Westerners persecuted them while non-Westerners did not!

"I would really appreciate simple and clear definitions as to what these terms mean and do not mean"

Western civilization = anything that uses Moses and/or Aristotle (esp. both simultaneously) as positive foundations

Counterculture = any consciously hostile cultural reaction to any aspect of Western civilization

(I disagree with Mazda; I consider the Renaissance more significant to the development of Western civilization than the "Enlightenment". The beginning of the colonial era predates the "Enlightenment", and the colonialists were already behaving like Homo Hubris.)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2023, 05:10:06 pm by 90sRetroFan »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2021, 11:02:55 pm »
"what Aryanists don't like"

It's not just what we don't like, but also what our enemies do like. Our enemies just posted this page:

https://www.eurocanadians.ca/western-civilization

And these are the pictures they included as examples:

Quote

British Columbia Parliament Buildings, Victoria, Canada. Baroque Revival architecture.
...

National Assembly of Quebec constructed between 1877 and 1886. It features the Second Empire architectural style of France.

This is not a coincidence. Our enemies know what is Western civilization and what is not. So do we. In their words:

Quote
a grand geopolitical struggle for all the Europeans peoples who created Western Civilization — in competiton with the other major civilizations of China, Islam, Black Africa, and India.

This is why the English landscape garden (as I mentioned in the previous post) is not Western civilization: because it is in competition not with any non-Western civilization, but with Western civilization itself! Similarly with everything from the Counterculture: the intention of the Counterculture was none other than to expose the inferiority of Western civilization.

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Western Civilization is a creation of the White European Race, and it is far the greatest in human accomplishments.

Western civilization is all about showing how much humans can do (instead of worrying about whether or not it is ethical to do it). Hence this topic:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/homo-hubris/

The landscape garden (unlike the formal garden) is not about this, therefore the landscape garden is not part of Western civilization whereas the formal garden is.

Quote
immigrants prefer to shop in COSTCO and Walmart

Our enemies do not consider these to be Western, and neither do I:





Compare this set of pictures to the preceding set. There is no way that both can be considered products of the same civilization! So which is Western? (Hint: which is about showing off?)

In fact, I have argued that these styles have much more in common aesthetically with local pre-colonial architecture:



than with Western architecture, hence truly deserve to be called American architecture. An American nationalist must consider American architecture (whether the pre-colonial or the postmodern forms) superior to Western architecture.

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For all the criticisms one can make against the old ruling aristocratic elites of Europe, it stands  beyond question that the monarchical aristocracies of Europe had a deep appreciation for the best in music, art, and thought.

No, they appreciated the worst aesthetics ever seen in history.

Quote
They patronized the arts for centuries, listened to the best music, encouraged magnificent architecture

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 11:22:29 pm by 90sRetroFan »

guest55

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2021, 08:06:29 pm »
American architecture is clearly far superior to Western architecture, especially for those living in the Americas!:

Superadobe: Powerful Simplicity
Quote
SuperAdobe is a form of earth bag architecture developed by architect and CalEarth founder Nader Khalili. Using long sandbags ("SuperAdobe Bags"), barbed wire, on-site earth and a few tools, Khalili devised a revolutionary building system that integrates traditional earth architecture with contemporary global safety requirements, and passes severe earthquake code tests in California.

This technology has been published by NASA, endorsed by the United Nations, featured in countless world media outlets, and awarded the prestigious Aga Khan Award for Architecture in 2004. It comes from years of meditation, hands-on research and development. Inspired by traditional earth architecture in the deserts of Iran and adapted for modern usage. Simplified so that anyone can build.

https://www.calearth.org/intro-superadobe

Survey of Damage to Historic Adobe Buildings after the January 1994 Northridge Earthquake

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Historic adobe buildings -Spanish colonial missions, Mexican rancho and pueblo adobe structures -are the only above-ground remains of the state’s initial settlement by Spain and Mexico in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. They are invaluable reminders of a time past when California was sparsely populated by Native Americans, who, at the direction of the first Hispanic colonizers, constructed the majority of
these buildings. Native American mission-trained adobe makers, masons, and carpenters continued to comprise the bulk of the labor force throughout the Hispanic era in California.
California’s historic adobe buildings are the state’s earliest and most vulnerable structures. They are subject to damage by the elements, perhaps most dramatically by earthquakes. Continued preservation of California’s Hispanic-era adobe architecture represents a significant challenge given the severity and frequency of earthquakes in recent years and the susceptibility of unreinforced adobe masonry to earthquake damage.
A wide range of opinions exist concerning the performance of historic adobe buildings during large earthquakes. There are those who consistently underestimate the potential of earthquakes to damage historic adobe buildings because these structures are thought to have successfully stood the test of time. There are others who overestimate the hazards posed, believing that historic adobe buildings are weak and incapable of
withstanding earthquakes under any circumstance. While adobe buildings are undeniably vulnerable to seismic events, some have survived major earthquakes, which points up the fact that their performance in earthquakes is not widely understood, nor is the dramatic effect of well-designed retrofit measures.
https://www.getty.edu/conservation/publications_resources/pdf_publications/pdf/adobe_northridge.pdf

UMaine-led research in northern Peru unearths oldest adobe architecture in the Americas
Quote
On the north coast of Peru, researchers have discovered the oldest adobe architecture in the Americas, constructed with ancient mud bricks carved from natural clay deposits created by floods caused by El Nino.

The pre-Hispanic bricks — carved from sedimentary layers versus created by mixing clay, temper and water — date the invention of adobe architecture to more than 5,100 years ago, according to the international research team led by archaeologist Ana Cecilia Mauricio.

In the Andes, early adobe monumental structures are associated with communal ceremonies and the rise of social complexity, the team notes.
https://umaine.edu/news/blog/2021/11/22/umaine-led-research-in-northern-peru-unearths-oldest-adobe-architecture-in-the-americas/\

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The Arg-e Bam (Persian: ارگ بم‎), located in the city of Bam, Kerman Province of southeastern Iran, is the largest adobe building in the world. The entire building was a large fortress containing the citadel, but because the citadel dominates the ruins, the entire fortress is now named Bam Citadel.

Listed by UNESCO as part of the World Heritage Site "Bam and its Cultural Landscape", it can be traced back to at least the Achaemenid Empire (sixth to fourth centuries BC). The citadel rose to importance from the seventh to eleventh centuries, as a crossroads along the Silk Road and other important trade routes, and as a producer of silk and cotton garments.[1]

On 26 December 2003, the Citadel was almost completely destroyed by an earthquake, along with much of the rest of Bam and its environs. A few days after the earthquake, the President of Iran, Mohammad Khatami, announced that the Citadel would be rebuilt.


Compared to Western civilization: (Take into consideration what I've posted above and how this Westerner talks about Western civilization:)
The Pantheon: The ancient building still being used after 2,000 years
Quote
When visitors walk into the Pantheon in Rome and encounter its colossal dome, they may experience the same theatricality as its guests nearly 2,000 years ago.
"Anyone who steps inside the Pantheon immediately feels the crushing weight of human history, but also the incredible lightness of human creativity," said John Ochsendorf, professor of architecture at MIT and former director of the American Academy in Rome.
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/pantheon-history-test-of-time/index.html

90sRetroFan

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2021, 08:22:45 pm »
It was common in Counterculture era video games (2D of course) for the final boss (ie. the main villain) to be surrounded by Western architecture. Here are some examples:











And my personal favourite (as it includes a Western orchestra too!):



On top of that, one of Krauser's henchmen was a bullfighter:



Back then, Western aesthetics were associated with evil by default. Those were the days.....



« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 09:47:27 pm by 90sRetroFan »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2021, 09:05:39 pm »
Also, back in those days, the unmistakeably American (ie. non-Western) shopping centre aesthetic used to be considered cool:



(And yes, I know Connelly is a Jew. She also has extremely high sexual dimorphism. But at least Whaley is relatively low in sexual dimorphism, so this pairing is still preferable to those where sexual dimorphism is high on both sides.)

90sRetroFan

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2021, 09:07:12 pm »
I just added a post showing the Western shopping aesthetic for contrast to the American one in the above post:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg10230/#msg10230

And indeed back in the Counterculture era, it was definitely ridiculed:


90sRetroFan

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2021, 08:55:36 pm »
Another iconic form of American (ie. non-Western) architecture is the motel:









Prior to the Counterculture era, the motel were portrayed in movies as an implicitly non-Western place where bad things could easily happen to (Western) guests passing through:



By the 80s, in contrast, the motel appropriately acquired a new role as a sanctuary for anti-Western guests fleeing from Western civilization:



And by the 90s, the anti-Western guests (together with the similarly anti-Western motel staff!) were actually fighting back from inside the motel!





« Last Edit: December 23, 2021, 08:58:17 pm by 90sRetroFan »

guest55

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2021, 10:48:39 pm »
I was thinking earlier on how America, of all the nations in the world, has the worst memory out of all of them! If America were a person it would probably suffer from narcolepsy and would need someone to constantly remind it not to forget who they are....

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2021, 08:49:31 pm »
It's not just motels, even US roadside restaurants capture the essence of American (ie. non-Western) aesthetics:



Contrast with the Western functional counterpart (note the emphasis on structural symmetry that is thoroughly absent from the American style):



These are clearly products of two ideologically oppositional civilizations. And all bloodlines in the US which prefer the latter should be identified as anti-American and eliminated. Preferably starting with the Trump bloodline:

« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 08:52:29 pm by 90sRetroFan »

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2021, 08:43:26 pm »
Another memorable Counterculture video game use of Western aesthetics was for horror:



It makes you feel uneasy even when nothing ostensibly frightening is happening.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 08:45:11 pm by 90sRetroFan »
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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2022, 11:47:10 am »
"Counterculture started in the 1960s"

I posit that it started in the 1950s with the beatniks. Elvis Presley's music was nothing like Western classical music. Sexual liberation also started in the 1950s with the Kinsey report and "sex bombs" like Marilyn Monroe, marking a departure from Christian/Yahwist sexual morality. I don't claim it was extremely popular back then, but it was slowly growing until it reached a climax in 1968. New Age in the 1970s was an expression of a sense of defeat because former radical students realized that no political revolution will happen. The 1980s were a decade of backlash against countercultural ideals, it's enough to look at Reagan and Thatcher. And many former countercultural students became "yuppies" in the 1980s, embracing Western capitalism and career-oriented lifestyle.

"Western civilization = anything that uses Moses and/or Aristotle (esp. both simultaneously) as positive foundations"
and then:
"Western civilization arose out of the "enlightenment" era and the French Revolution"

These definitions contradict each other. The Enlightenment thinkers despised both Moses and Aristotle as outdated. Today the heir of the Enlightenment is Richard Dawkins. Does RD like any of the two guys you mentioned?

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2022, 10:35:27 pm »
"I posit that it started in the 1950s with the beatniks."

This is a possible interpretation. Zea_mays and I in a private discussion came up with term "proto-Counterculture" to cover this period where divergence was clearly occurring yet was not yet fully self-aware. This distinguishes it from the 1960s when the divergers were totally conscious of the extent of their divergence and its logical implications.

"Sexual liberation also started in the 1950s"

We could go back even further:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flapper

But I don't consider sexual liberationism in itself to be Counterculture, so long as it still celebrates high sexual dimorphism. For me, the turning point was when men and women started dressing more similarly, as I was explaining to some idiot here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-dress-decolonization/msg5864/#msg5864

In fact, I consider it a mistake on the part of the early Counterculture to be uncritically associated with the sexual liberationists. Sexual traditionalism definitely deserved to be attacked, but I would have preferred the attack to have been launched from the angle of romanticism rather than that of hedonism. This is why I prefer the later Counterculture works which realized this mistake and tried to correct it with more romantic emphasis, as well as Counterculture works from originally non-Western countries which to a greater extent avoided the mistake of associating with sexual liberationism in the first place.

"The 1980s were a decade of backlash against countercultural ideals, it's enough to look at Reagan and Thatcher. And many former countercultural students became "yuppies" in the 1980s, embracing Western capitalism and career-oriented lifestyle."

I disagree with this part. They still felt closer to the Counterculture values than traditional Western values, and brought these feelings with them as they moved up their various career ladders, thus taking them over from within. Rightists have a name for this phenomenon: the Long March Through the Institutions. And indeed society did not return to the way it was prior to the 1960s, but instead continued shifting left (examples given above). Capitalism back then was (despite its faults) perceived as more aligned with the Counterculture than against it, since the Turandom Warsaw Pact countries were the ones completely cut off from from Counterculture ideas by the Iron Curtain and hence largely retained traditional Western values:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3911/#msg3911

I agree with Dugin on this:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/enemies/duginism/msg222/#msg222

Quote
Dugin admits that - just as I have long accused him - he is a Westerner after all (he merely dislikes the Counterculture era):

irrussianality.wordpress.com/2017/09/13/interview-with-alexander-dugin/

Quote
PR: There are people who say that you are anti-Western.

    AD: No, I don’t agree. I am not anti-Western. I am anti-liberal. In fact, I love the West. I have written eight volumes dedicated to Western culture, Western philosophy. I have written two volumes on Greek and Byzantine culture; a volume on Latin culture; a volume on Germany; a volume on France; a volume on England; a volume on America, including North America. I am interested in the Western logos; I study it; it is extraordinarily complicated. I don’t only criticize it, I know it and understand it deeply. Until a certain moment when this liberal, globalist ideology triumphed, the West was a jewel. The West produced daring thought, beautiful thought, sunny thought. It had everything. Until the 1980s. What happened in the West in the 80s affected universities, art, mass media, all of society. I consider that contemporary Europe is an anti-Europe. I simply cannot accept the West in its current condition, at the end of modernity. I find that I have more sympathizers in Western cultural circles than in Russian ones. The West is my spiritual, intellectual motherland. That’s not to mention Western European culture, which I admire. I know all the so-called ‘cursed’ French poets by heart. I love English culture. I’m not some evil Russian peasant who hates the West. I know European languages quite well. I know the West, I live my life through it. One can even say that I love the West.

To this day, rightists dislike capitalists for supporting open borders based on free market arguments.

"These definitions contradict each other."

Yes. Hence:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg10049/#msg10049

Quote
I disagree with Mazda
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 11:02:56 pm by 90sRetroFan »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2022, 04:45:31 am »
Here is another memorable example showing how those who like Western classical music were viewed back in those days: