Author Topic: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed  (Read 844 times)

90sRetroFan

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Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« on: November 11, 2020, 10:31:11 pm »
OLD CONTENT

phys.org/news/2020-05-ancient-dna-unveils-important-piece.html

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Newly released genomes from Neolithic East Asia have unveiled a missing piece of human prehistory, according to a study conducted by Prof. Fu Qiaomei's team from the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology (IVPP) of the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
...
The scientists also found that Early Neolithic East Asians were more genetically differentiated from each other than present-day East Asians are. In early Neolithic East Asia since 9,500 BP, a northern ancestry existed along the Yellow River and up into the eastern steppes of Siberia, distinct from a southern ancestry that existed along the coast of the southern Chinese mainland and islands in the Taiwan Strait since 8,400 BP.

I told you Huangdi was:

1) not Shennongshi
2) Turanian

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Population movement may have already started impacting East Asians by the Late Neolithic. For example, the Late Neolithic southern East Asians may have shared a connection to coastal northern East Asians and the former's ancestry may have extended north as well.

Yes, because while most of the best arable land in China is in the south, there is also some in the northeast, so Aryan diffusion to the northeast via a sea route would have been sensible:



(This would be consistent with, thousands of years later, the superiority of the (coastal northern origin) Qing dynasty compared to the (inland northern origin) Yuan dynasty.)

The North-South racial soul divergence also emerges in art:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_School

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According to William Watson, while the Northern School contains "the painters who favour clear, emphatic structure in their compositions, with the use of explicit perspective devices", the Southern School "cultivate a more intimate style of landscape bathed in cloud and mist, in which pleasing calligraphic forms tend to take the place of conventions established for the representation of rocks, trees, etc. The painter of the Southern School was interested in distant effects, but his colleague of the Northern School paid more attention to the devices of composition which achieve the illusion of recession, and at the same time more attentive to close realism of detail. ... some artists hover between the two".[3] A more philosophical distinction is that the Southern School painters "were thought to have sought the inner realities and expressed their own lofty natures" while the Northern "painted only the outward appearance of things, the worldly and decorative".[4]
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 04:09:15 am by 90sRetroFan »

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90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2020, 10:37:20 pm »
Latest:

https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/374225/neolithic-escalon-man-discovered-in-surigao/

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“The Escalon Man significantly provides human skeletal evidence of the Austronesians whose amazing navigation feat based on indigenous knowledge of astronomy using wooden outriggered boats in coming and going led to the peopling of the Philippines, Island Southeast Asia, all the way to Polynesia,” he added.
...
Agriculturist

Results from radiocarbon and mitochondrial DNA analyses, according to the researchers, “indicated that the Escalon Man belongs to the haplogroup E1a1a, which is known to be the marker of Austronesian-speaking agriculturist populations that originated in Taiwan and spread southward through the Philippines to the Western Pacific, since about 4000 BP.”

They said this type is less diverse in the Philippines and in the Sulawesi Islands, which suggests its movement during the postglacial period.

The study also indicated that the Escalon Man is taller than the Aeta, Mamanwa and Negrito people who arrived in the country during the late Paleolithic area, which is about 50,000 to 10,000 years ago.

It also noted that the Escalon Man is a farmer and not a hunter-gatherer and theorized it to be the ancestors of Mindanao groups, notably the Manobo.

I told you so.
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90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2021, 02:57:26 am »
https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/neolithic-cabin-fragments-discovered-china-baodun-1234595480/

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Fragments of 4,500-Year-Old Neolithic Cabin Discovered in Southwest China
...
The carbonized bamboo fragments may have once belonged to a house from the Baodun culture (2700 B.C.E.–1700 B.C.E.), a Neolithic settlement in the Yangtze River area. Because Baodun is the earliest known mass settlement on the Chendu Plain, it has been a source of fascination among Chinese archaeologists, who believe it challenges the long-held notion that the Yellow River Valley was the sole origin of ancient civilization in the country. Past research has shown that inhabitants grew rice and foxtail millet, and were responsible for the earliest known form of rice cultivation on the Chengdu Plain.

Baodun houses were constructed using the wattle-and-daub method, which involves wooden frames and earthen walls. In this case, however, the frames were bamboo, and the walls were made from mud. Tang Miao, deputy head of the Baodun Project, told ECNS that “the discovery has directly proved the existence of the bamboo-mud wall.”

For reference, bamboo habitat worldwide:


90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2022, 09:15:23 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/quest-save-cantonese-world-dominated-123003051.html

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As efforts began to save Cantonese at Stanford, the language remained under threat worldwide.

It is being swamped by Mandarin, the official language of more than 1 billion people in China and Taiwan — as different from Cantonese as Spanish is from French.
...
Mandarin’s four tones are enough to flummox English speakers. For example, depending on the inflection, "ma" can mean "mother," "numb," "horse" or "yell at."

With nine tones, Cantonese is even more challenging to learn. Scholars say it is closer to ancient Chinese than Mandarin is — a Tang Dynasty poem would sound more like the original if read in Cantonese.

This is what I have been saying all along. Mandarin is Turanized Chinese:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Mandarin

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Old Mandarin or Early Mandarin was the speech of northern China during the Jurchen-ruled Jin dynasty and the Mongol-led Yuan dynasty (12th to 14th centuries).

Cantonese is Aryan Chinese:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese

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It is the traditional prestige variety of the Yue Chinese dialect group, which has over 80 million native speakers.[1] While the term Cantonese specifically refers to the prestige variety, it is often used to refer to the entire Yue subgroup of Chinese

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)

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Prestige varieties are language or dialect families which are generally considered by a society to be the most "correct" or otherwise superior.

Related:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg12527/#msg12527

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Northern Chinese are a mix of early Han, Turkic peoples, Mongols, Koreans, Tibetans and some other mostly nomadic tribes which disappeared into the Han melting pot.

Southern Chinese were not nomadic, lived in a more mountainous region, and were mostly involved in rice cultivation.
...
Stronger alcohol drinking culture: The Chinese from Northeast China (Jilin, Heilongjiang, Liaoning) especially like to drink a lot alcoholic drinks like the Russians or the Koreans do.

Heavier and more robust food: Compared to Chinese food from Southern China, Chinese food from Northern China tends to be greasier, heavier on the stomach, saltier, and more robust in flavour. More meats and less vegetables are featured on Northern Chinese food.
...
Stronger tea drinking culture: Southern Chinese people, especially Chinese people from Chaozhou region of China and Fujian region of China, tend to drink a lot more tea than Northern Chinese people. Chinese statistic said that Chinese people from Chaozhou region of China consume the most tea per capita compared to the other Chinese from other regions of China.

Lighter and more delicate food: As opposed to Northern Chinese food, Southern Chinese food tends to be less greasy, lighter on the stomach, less salty, and more delicate in flavour. More vegetables are featured on Southern Chinese food because vegetables could grow better in Southern China than in Northern China.

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/china-and-united-states-relations/msg12716/#msg12716

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It has been noted that Cantonese culture is traditionally marked by a "culture of distance from Confucius" (Jyutping: Jyun5 jyu4 man4 faa3; Traditional Chinese: 遠儒文化, literally "culture of distance from Confucius"),[49] which may be related to Lingnan historically being a fringe region of the Chinese Empire and influence from Tang dynasty (who placed greater emphasis on Taoism and Buddhism than Confucianism): While Confucian philosophy still has its deep influence on Cantonese culture, Confucius Temples are harder to find in Lingnan than Buddhist or Taoist ones.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2022, 09:20:42 pm by 90sRetroFan »

rp

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2022, 11:47:38 pm »
I was just thinking about how remarkable the differences were between Cantonese and Mandarin are yesterday after watching Ip-Man, and here I see this article on twitter today. After watching the film, I felt that Cantonese represented a more "authentic" side of China not usually known to those living in the West. Add to this the fact that Westerners' first choice of dialect is Mandarin when attempting to show off their "Chinese-ness". Seriously, go on youtube and you will find tons of "Whites" (including Jews) showing off their Mandarin in an attempt to pass off as "experts" in Chinese culture.

However, regarding the article, I do not like the way they worded it using preservationist language. Or would you make an exception for this language?

More importantly, I recall on Aryanism you mentioned we should not be linguistic supremacists, or would you make an exception in this case since the original speakers are identifiably Turanian?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2022, 12:01:05 am by rp »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2022, 12:04:30 am »
"I do not like the way they worded it using preservationist language."

Neither do I. Which is why I didn't quote those parts.

"I recall on Aryanism you mentioned we should not be linguistic supremacists"

I mean we shouldn't claim that one language family is superior to all others:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family

We should, however, compare between different lineages within the same language family, as was also done here, for example:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-degendering/msg6261/#msg6261

This is no different than our racial attitude of never claiming one ethnicity to be superior to all others, but judging superiority and inferiority of bloodlines within each ethnicity. (In both domains, anti-Turanian attitudes are encouraged.)

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-degendering/msg8791/#msg8791

"Ip-Man"

The problem with Ip Man 1 is that it makes it appear as though Chinese nationalism requires being anti-Japanese, which is stupid. I prefer Ip Man 2 which concentrates on anti-British sentiment. In tackling the issue of Japan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fearless_(2006_film)

is more to my liking as it makes it clear that anti-Western Japanese are fine, and it is solely pro-Western Japanese who are the problem.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2022, 12:17:50 am by 90sRetroFan »

rp

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2022, 02:45:59 am »
"The problem with Ip Man 1 is that it makes it appear as though Chinese nationalism requires being anti-Japanese"

I agree. Only the first half on the film was good because it avoided the anti-Japanese theme and the main villain was a Northerner.  It even took a slight jab at the Westernized (progressivist) attitudes prevalent in China at that time. In one scene, for example, the police officer Captain Li says "why are you guys still talking about Kung Fu? Nowadays, it's all about guns!".

90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2022, 08:39:17 pm »
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202208/1274300.shtml

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Hemudu Culture: Ancient farmers who enjoyed peace and bounty

Stretching along the lower reaches of the Yangtze River, the Hemudu Culture dates back to the Neolithic Period 7,000 years ago. The culture gained its name from where it was first discovered - Hemudu in Yuyao, East China's Zhejiang Province.

In the documents recorded and preserved in the Hemudu Cultural Site Museum in Zhejiang, archaeologists described the culture as "ancestors who knew how to enjoy their lives."

Archaeologists believe that the people of Hemudu lived a rather peaceful and comfortable life as no signs of fierce conflicts or lack of food were found during the excavation.

"These ancestors from 7,000 years ago already knew how to live an exquisite life along the Yangtze River," researchers wrote in the Hemudu Culture Catalog collected in the museum in Yuyao.

"They were a group who desired sun and sky, without worrying about food or war."
...
It overturned the traditional view of "Yellow River Centralism," the idea that ancient Chinese civilization mainly radiated out from its center around the Yellow River. Instead, a large and mature culture was discovered along another major river, opening a window to the Neolithic history of southern China.

SirGalahad

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2022, 06:04:37 pm »
@90sRetroFan Is it possible that the Shennongshi were non-Chinese, both ethnically and linguistically? Would you personally describe them as non-Chinese? The Aryan Diffusion series mentions the southern Yue being superior to the northern Huaxia/Han, but as far as I can tell, the Yue only became Chinese after the Han assimilated them. From this angle, it would make more sense to call the historical Yue Vietnamese ("Yue" and "Viet" are cognates after all, and the Vietnamese also happen to consider "Thần Nông" one of their ancestors and culture founders), than it would be to call them Chinese. Labeling them as Vietnamese would be a massive oversimplification since the Hundred Yue appear to have been pretty diverse ethnically, linguistically, and even racially (the Yue are described as barbarian animists on the one hand and peaceful rice farmers on the other), but it's just for the sake of argument.

I just wish that there was more clarification on the specific identity of the Shennongshi, because even though ethnicity and language mean very little to us, it gets kind of confusing the more I look into the topic. And it might be even more confusing for the average Joe who stumbles upon our website. Shennong is labeled as a mythical Chinese leader in pretty much every article about him that I can find online, and part 2 of our Aryan Diffusion series centers itself around China, but that might not necessarily be the case. What are your thoughts on the issue? I think that the article about Aryan diffusion into Europe does a good job of clarifying that all Aryan influence in Europe ultimately derives from Anatolia, even though "Anatolian" isn't very specific either, so it has its own issues. It's just that the article on China seems to have less clarification
« Last Edit: December 30, 2022, 06:10:25 pm by SirGalahad »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2022, 08:32:45 pm »
"Is it possible that the Shennongshi were non-Chinese, both ethnically and linguistically?"

Strictly speaking, no one was Chinese prior to the Qin dynasty which standardized the Chinese language.

"Would you personally describe them as non-Chinese?"

No, I want them to consider the Huaxia as less Chinese than themselves.

"Yue only became Chinese after the Han assimilated them."

Qin had already expanded into Yue:



but Qin and Han were ideologically opposed (anti-Confucianist vs pro-Confucianist), and residual discomfort with Han culture remained in former Yue territories even after the Han dynasty, as mentioned here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/yandi-vs-huangdi-myth-confirmed/msg12889/#msg12889

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It has been noted that Cantonese culture is traditionally marked by a "culture of distance from Confucius" (Jyutping: Jyun5 jyu4 man4 faa3; Traditional Chinese: 遠儒文化, literally "culture of distance from Confucius"),[49] which may be related to Lingnan historically being a fringe region of the Chinese Empire and influence from Tang dynasty (who placed greater emphasis on Taoism and Buddhism than Confucianism): While Confucian philosophy still has its deep influence on Cantonese culture, Confucius Temples are harder to find in Lingnan than Buddhist or Taoist ones.

so it could be argued that Yue is a more valid successor to Qin (and hence China) than Han ever was.

'it would make more sense to call the historical Yue Vietnamese ("Yue" and "Viet" are cognates after all,"

"Vietnam" literally means "South of Yue". Saying the Yue were Vietnamese would be saying they were south of themselves, which makes no sense. I agree, however, that Yue should feel closer to Vietnamese than with Han (let alone the further Turanized versions after the Yuan dynasty!).



"Shennong is labeled as a mythical Chinese leader"

I do not have a problem with this. It is the more Turanized whose Chineseness should be more suspect, considering that the categorical Qin conception of China was to infrastructurally incorporate the Yue (hence the Lingqu):



but exclude the Xiongnu (hence the Great Wall):



It was only the Han who disliked the Yue:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue#Culture

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The Han also said their language was "animal shrieking"

Nothing has changed, by the way:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-version-tiktok-reportedly-judges-090719443.html

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China’s version of TikTok reportedly judges Cantonese ‘unrecognizable’

 ;D
« Last Edit: February 19, 2023, 12:18:54 am by 90sRetroFan »

90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2023, 09:13:24 pm »
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Output-and-price-of-beef-and-sheep-meat-in-different-regions-of-China-mainland-Note-A_fig4_301814457



Quote
Output and price of beef and sheep meat in different regions of China mainland. Note: A = output beef, B = price of beef, C = output of sheep meat and D = price of sheep meat.

Firstly, using the same colour scale for B/D as for A/C is an awful presentational decision.

With that out of the way, we can deduce some things from these maps. In general, the lower (bluer) the output, the higher (redder) we would expect the price to be just going on the principle of supply and demand. Therefore, if a province with lower output nevertheless has a lower price than another province with a higher output, we could guess that the former has higher-quality people on average.

For example, looking at C and D, Guangdong has the lowest sheep meat output. Neighbouring Fujian (and to a lesser extent Jiangxi), despite higher output, has higher price, meaning inferior people. Hunan, having the same output, also has a higher price, hence also inferior people (but better than Jiangxi). And so on.

90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2023, 04:39:19 pm »
I academically agree with the following reconstruction of what Confucius looked like:







It is consistent with ancient portrayals:





Contrast with ancient portrayal of arch-anti-Confucianist Mozi:


90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2023, 10:07:54 pm »
Our enemies are noticing it too:

https://incels.is/threads/why-do-mainland-chinese-guys-have-bigger-jaws-mog-taiwanese-overseas-chinese.405888/

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Based on street interviews and pics, Mainland males have much more robust faces (wider midface, bigger jaw and more bone definition) than Taiwanese/Singaporean men. I am really confused as to what caused this; does being born in Mainland China automatically make you robust?

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Tofu eater
Mainland chinese eating more pig meat than the taiwanese

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Probably more northerners in Mainland china

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It's just North Chinese vs South Chinese. South Chinese are subhumans mixed with abos and orang utans.

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Its well known that Northern Han Chinese are usually taller and more robust. I swear man I've seen plenty of northern Chinese foid students over the years here in SF. They are Berkeley and Stanford students and its not uncommon to see that some of them are 5'7. Fuckin moggers for sure. Legit noodle stacies. They even mog most white foids imo with the exception of 5'6 to 5'7 young, blonde, slim white foids.

Meanwhile, the Cantonese southern Chinese are all mostly ugly, short, and ectomorph compared to them. This is because on the matrilineal side, a lot of Cantonese have aboriginal DNA, I think I read it was somewhere as high as 40% of Cantonese foids are of aboriginal origin. The Yue as they were called. Closely related to the Vietnamese, austronesian groups, and the Zhuang (Tai speaking linguistic group). Thats why a lot of Cantonese have a monkey faced SEA vietnamese look to them.

Southern Chinese are not only shorter, but much more likely to be ectomorph. Skinny arms, skinny wrists, small hands, skinny fingers.

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More mongol/jurchen/nomad **** baby blood -> stronger Jaws

For the record, 0% of the songs I have posted here:

https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/recommended-music-to-listen-to/

are mainland. 100% of the Chinese language songs are from Taiwan/Hong Kong/Singapore/Malaysia.

rp

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2023, 01:47:50 am »
So the Northern Chinese have more Turanian blood. But I also recall you mentioned elsewhere that they have more Ice-Age Gentile ancestry. I assume you were referring not to the Turanian ancestry (which is post Ice-Age) but the Gentile ancestry, correct?

90sRetroFan

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Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2023, 03:02:33 am »
Yes, had there been no Turanian diffusion into China, we should still expect a clinal increase in robustness moving north within China due to temperature differences alone:



but to a lesser extent. The reason why it is as pronounced as it is in reality is because the Turanians came in from even further north.