Author Topic: Progressive Yahwism  (Read 992 times)

Solar Guy

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Re: Progressive Yahwism
« on: November 20, 2021, 07:27:16 am »
I'm not an extropian actually. I've thought I am one, but then I learned more about the philosophy and now I know there is much I don't agree with.

"So extropians want to "increase capacity for improvement". Yet for improvement to be meaningful, the more you improve, it should follow that the less capacity remains for you to further improve. If you start off with 10 flaws, you have the capacity to eliminate 10 flaws. If have already eliminated 9 flaws, you now only have the capacity to eliminate 1 more flaw. This is genuine improvement, and hence reduction in the capacity for improvement. On the other hand, so-called "improvement" that increases the capacity for "improvement" logically cannot be improvement at all. It is progress. The difference is that improvement is measured relative to an endpoint, whereas progress is measured relative to a starting point."

I'm not sure about this one. The more you improve, the more flaws you can see in yourself. But your point is still valid: without an endpoint in sight, improvement cannot be properly defined.

"What is inspiring or uplifting about boundlessness? Whatever is boundless is necessarily meaningless. Extropianism is no less shallow than investing money to make more money, and then investing that larger sum of money to make even more money, and so on. But at least investors do not act like there is something deep about what they do. This makes them less annoying than Extropians"

Yes, there must be a point when you say enough. I have enough money. My machines are complex enough. Otherwise you can only be frustrated. Have we reached this point already? Maybe in some ways we did, but I'm not sure. As William Blake said, you never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough.

"If you have actually transcended nature, you would not want the stuff you just said (in 1.) that you want. Your so-called
"transcendence" is therefore not transcendence, but mere overcoming of inability to get what you want (which is still what nature tells you to want)."

Good point. Techies cannot claim spiritual/emotional development at all. They want machines to satisfy their barbaric desires (such as sex robots so that they can commit harassment without ending up in prison like Harvey Weinstein). They rarely if ever question their desires. In this way religious people are better examples to emulate than techies.

"Those with machines obviously do not mind coexisting with those without machines, because the latter will be less powerful. In contrast, those without machines are totally justified in opposing (including via retaliatory violence) coexistence with those who are constantly making themselves more powerful via machines."

Actual techies and extropians want to get everybody online. They won't left alone people who don't want to use machines, they will use persuasion and propaganda as long as everybody is a tech addict. The alcoholic also wants everybody to get drunk.